How would you fix CSI: NY?

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, May 8, 2010.


How do you feel about CSI: NY this season?

  1. I think it's great--probably one of my favorite seasons

    3 vote(s)
  2. I think it's pretty good

    9 vote(s)
  3. It's so-so this year

    17 vote(s)
  4. I'm pretty disappointed with the season

    27 vote(s)
  5. It's so bad that I'm contemplating giving up the show

    9 vote(s)
  1. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

    May 24, 2009
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    hmm well i was holding off posting on this thread as i wasn't really sure what i wanted to say, i mean i have thoughts about it but formulating them into something coherent is a whole other story (a bit like the csi ny writers apparently!), so this may well be long and waffly, and there will be quite a lot of specifics about mac, sorry guys...

    i think 2 case episodes are a must. as has been said here and in other threads, the one case eps don't allow for more individual interactions between team members. sure it's fine to see that they're a team, but i liked when they sent 2 of them in one direction and 2 of them in another, it meant we got to see more interactions between specific characters and we got to see them chop and change a bit, like mac working a case with aiden was different from danny working a case with aiden, etc, seeing the different dynamics between them was really good; it's nice to see a group dynamic but i don't think the 2 case eps really lost that; we often got snippets of them working as a whole team, and they all kinda bounced off each other more.

    also they need to get back to a more varied NYC - the older cases went all over the city, i loved seeing stuff like homeless guys getting coins from drains with bubble gum, the rat fisherman, the rat catcher, the poor guys sleeping in the bus station, the indie bands hanging out in dingy clubs and putting posters up, the russian immigrants doing bizarre medical experiments, the glitzy chocolate manufacturers, the bankers, the clubbers, the dockworkers, the rich bastards trying to pay off their son in law for getting a stripper pregnant; all that kind of thing, that's real life (well, ok, maybe a tad exaggerated!) - this season we've seen very little of that kind of thing, it's all been decent manhattan folk, none of the quirky stuff that you inevitably get in the big city.

    give DL a bit more alone time - danny was a great character and lindsay was promising too in s2, at least i thought so. since they've been itemised they're just kind of a unit with no real personality of their own. we never get to see them unless it's a reminder that they're married (WE KNOW!!!), it would be much nicer to see those scenes interspersed with some moments of each of them separately, especially as has been said somewhere else because lindsay had a good chemistry with mac at the start, she definitely brought out a playful side to him, the onion experiment springs to mind - that kind of stuff's been lost.

    continuity - it really is a big problem. the odd continuity issue in a long running series is to be expected but bloody hell, they go all over the shop! they really need to pin down basic things like how old the characters are meant to be (especially lucy, the super-fast-aging baby), basic backstories, consistency etc. it's one of those things that has probably always been there but does seem to be much worse recently. i think maybe if they have more/different writers now it is becoming either more of a problem or more apparent, or both. basically the writers need to sit down as a group and just sort it out once and for all so that when each of them writes they are writing the same characters and the same backstories. the odd little tweak for artistic license is fair enough but not the whopping oddities they keep coming up with.

    the same goes for unfinished stories or stories just being mysteriously dropped. i'm not a smackie but after GFD i remember thinking there was only really one way they could take mac and stella, but by the beginning of s6 it'd mysteriously been forgotten. i don't especially want smacked to happen but that came across as a pretty hefty shift in their relationship (whatever kind of relationship they have) and it was never followed up - even if it turned into nothing it would've been nice to have some acknowledgement on mac and stella's part that that situation had arisen and something needed to be done about it. ditto adam and stella, that actually kind of had potential - even for people against the idea, there was potential in terms of the impact that relationship could've had on the whole team and probably especially on mac, which could've allowed for all kinds of character developments and dynamics.

    i think something similar about haylen - i realise she was always a kind of test character but i think introducing her in tiny doses and then after 3 eps just ditching her made no sense at all. yes, she wasn't exactly miss popular with some viewers, but i think a lot of us were happy to give her the benefit of the doubt and see how it panned out. just ditching her that quickly suggests that the writers are disorganised and uncoordinated (which given they're writing something that has to be coherent over a longish timescale is worrying) but also i think it showed they were nervous about their own ideas. not every character is going to be super popular, but sometimes writers and producers have to stick to their guns and have the strength of their convictions to at least give a story idea/character/whatever a fair chance to have an impact on viewers. by dropping her at the first sign of trouble, to me it seemed like they were going "oh no! you don't like that! eek! well, don't worry we'll try something else and if you don't like that we'll ditch that too and then try something else" as if they were a worn out babysitter at the end of their tether with a particularly demanding 2 year old. we don't have to be spoon fed all the time, sometimes being given something and being told that we have to at least try it is more rewarding than just throwing all the toys out of the pram.

    mac - hmm now here's the one that's hard to write. i'm a massive gary fan so i really don't mind that mac gets a lot of time on screen, however i can totally see why it pisses people off if it comes to the detriment of the others, which in some cases i think it does. i also think that continuing to only show the determined, moralistic cop aspect of mac is a problem. partly because it pisses people off and they start thinking he's turning into superman and is becoming (a) unrealistic and (b) irritating, but also because it's changed mac from a quite multi-dimensional character - ie in the past we've seen that he's a scientist, a friend, a father figure, hell, a human being! into a one dimensional character.

    in the early eps/seasons we got a lot more difference in mac, even though it was sometimes subtle, it was there. as for his moralistic high horse tendencies, it bugs me a bit when people say these are new things - that's always been there (for instance officer blue, or heroes), but they used to be tied in with other aspects of mac and so they weren't as dominant. by making them overly dominant, mac suffers from pissing people off and that makes the whole show suffer because - like it or not - he IS the central character, and if he's becoming repetitive, that doesn't bode well for anyone.

    it also bothers me a bit that there's this idea of gary going around dictating that mac should be this kind of moralistic preachy cop, i can't see that really being the case - as i said that side of mac has always been there and although i'm sure that as (a) the actor and (b) the producer, gary has input into the character, his history of ensemble work suggests quite strongly that he's not dictatorial about these things. also i suspect that it's not just him, i'm sure other people in the production team share similar views on the military or the death penalty or whatever. but i suppose that's by the by. hehe, the defence for sinise rests ;)

    from a personal point of view it makes me really sad - i've seen gary's range of acting elsewhere, in films but also in plays and he really does have a great range, he's capable of a lot, he even has good comic timing - so why are these things being lost? in the older seasons mac was much more versatile, his range came out a lot more, so where's that gone? it seems recently mac's become stuck in a rut where he's becoming very samey, people are getting annoyed by him, and gary's just kinda coasting along, which is a real shame. personally i hope gary leaves at the end of his contract and just goes back to doing something that allows him to really do something different and versatile, because i think it's probably more the fault of the writers than his fault, the material he's been given this season, apart from, surprisingly, the stuff with aubrey, has been pretty poor.

    which i guess brings me back to writing - i think the writing really is suffering at the moment. partly because the single case eps don't allow for character interaction like the 2 case eps do, i think also the one case eps make each case seem so "big" and overblown that it's like there's no room for anything else, no room for team banter or changing dynamics, and because 1 case really can't fill an entire ep by itself, any personal stuff tends to come over as filler. the 2 case eps allowed personal stuff but it always felt much less fillerish, because it was more immediate as a result of the timescale of 2 cases. but also i think the fact that writers seem to be incapable of communicating with each other is a big issue - as evidenced by the poor continuity, the lack of coherence between characters and timelines and episodes generally.

    oh and back to mac, briefly, if they do end mac as a character (which given how things are right now i hope they do relatively soon), there's no way it could be any other way than a death - i don't think i'd like to see him just go off into the sunset with a view to potentially returning, that would be a major cop out (excuse the pun!) - if mac goes, he has to really go.

    i've not hated this season and i do still get excited about each wednesday, but tbh a lot of that is because i need a gary fix ;) many of this season's eps have been underwhelming. i think i've graded them fairly high mostly but that's mainly been in relation to each other within the season, if i were grading against earlier seasons they'd be far, far lower. whatever it is that's gone wrong, i hope they work it out.

    blimey. that was long.
  2. flying mouse

    flying mouse Witness

    Oct 13, 2009
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    ^ Great insight! :thumbsup: I agree most of them, except that it's not entirely Gary's fault. :lol: Maybe because I'm not a die hard Gary fan! Mac really need a acrewup, big one! Hopefully in next season. I think people would love it. :lol: Like you, I'm still waiting for Wednesday because I need my fav character fix, not really expecting anything else though, at this point. :(
  3. Elwood21

    Elwood21 Pathologist

    Apr 29, 2007
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    The Wishlist and FixIt Threads are somewhat similar, but I guess I'll start in here :p.

    Agree with some very good points brought up, and will likely repeat some.

    I voted "so-so," because it seems about on par for what it's been doing for the past several seasons, which I've collectively been Disappointed in.

    Top of my list is something that's more a network issue than a show issue. If you want a loyal following or even momentum in generating interest and viewers, you've got to have a reasonably consistent schedule of broadcasting new episodes. I realize that this season has fewer episodes within its season to air. I doubt we'll ever go back to getting more episodes ordered rather than less. The Olympics were something beyond anyone's control in that fashion, but combined with holiday broadcasting, march madness, politics, yada, it was just exasperating, and no way to build an audience. One or two new episodes a month sprinkled sporadically is not gonna do the show well.

    Perhaps the show starts in January instead of September just so it can have a good, uninterrupted run, I don't know. However one should go about it, it's something I think is a valid point to be addressed.

    Next, formula is overtaking an interesting show. Everything hasta be wrapped up in a tidy parcel, the characters all have very specific functions within any given episode, when they're individually considered at all.

    ETA: I take & meant as included within this:

    A) Montages and ubertech expedite processing to the point of wondering if it's only done to meet the forensics mandate, cos it doesn't seem to matter a whole helluvalot what any of it addresses. It's shiny and flashy and accompanied by overt gutted soundtracks. And when the flash slows down to the ta-da moment, we're given a dull expositional exchange between whoever is around, and that doesn't seem to matter either. Marco/polo, montage/exposition. There must be some way to blend plot functionality, sequences that understandably need to expedite the investigation, and character individuality within episodic limits of time and still have them be engaging.

    B) The main approach to personalizing character involvement seems to be to make a crusade out something. Plz to stop. Not everything hasta fit into some morality tale. Further, demonstrating the cost of something, the waste or the toll it takes, does not have to be done thru a narrative synopsis explaining what has all just happened. We just sat thru it, we've already cottoned on, and if the preceding material was well done, we've certainly started forming our own opinions. It would be nicer to see that the waste or the cost takes a toll on our main characters too, that they are impacted, not wearing armor (and sitting on high horses). The characters often don't feel like they are speaking relative to themselves so much as being used for external commentary.

    I suppose fixing all that has more to do with the show needing to break out of it's own comfortable Box of Tricks.

    I'd recommend no longer using cliff-hangers to close a season. If they wanna insist on sticking one in at some point during the season, fine, I could live with that. But stop with the finale crap. Don't play the game of setting over-high stakes if they mean exactly zilch during the follow up. It's no wonder why people find it hard to take the show seriously. Danny is a case in point. His arc suffered hugely. OMG someone on the team wuz shot and they all were forever changed not changing. Who changed this season. Did anyone change? Beuller? Beuller? Well, Flack, but he's the part the show got right. How can they expect viewers to do anything but snicker when the follow for Danny had him going from 10% to walking in four episodes. Pay Up wasn't a bad episode, but there was no reason to end it with a bar shooting. It mighta been more interesting to start the next season's premier with that instead, that mighta been cracker and hugely unexpected, a way too grab attention early on. Instead, both the end of one season and the start of the next were let downs.

    I like the idea of 2-case episodes. Not saying that every episode should consist of such, but a certain percentage would help change things up thru the season too.

    This may be a budgetary issue, and so not feasible. I'm thinking now of the rotation that Sid, Adam, and Lindsay were on this year. It would be nice to see more of Sid and Adam. Somehow I don't feel I missed Lindsay, but I'll include her as a matter of principle. If they are not likely to be returned to wider circulation, it might be nice to see them more involved when they are around. Even so much as a case or even a b-case where they could contribute more.

    I'd encourage resisting the urge to create uber-nemesis. That's not the only way to raise the stakes or intrigue. I appreciate the aim of something like the compass killer trilogy, but it wasn't consistent or compelling enough I felt like I daren't miss an episode. I'm still undecided about Casey, but I suppose that's mostly because it's taking a great deal of effort to keep and open mind.

    I'd find ways to include secondary/tertiary characters like Reed, Sam, Terence, Sinclair, etc. and potentially romantic interests, if handled well. Reed and Terence were very welcome and successfully integrated in their episodes this year. I like them because they help bring out other aspects of our main roster, and because they aid in not only maintaining a wider context and sense of the city, but larger continuity as well. They contribute to the realm. If Sheldon gets a love interest, or if Aubrey makes another appearance, or any family are introduced (Flack's, Sid's, eg), I'd equally hope those instances are not gratuitously parachuted in but integrated with some care. But they'd definitely be welcome, and I think there's room within the show for it if well done.

    Multi-ep arcs. Flack's was among the best handled, how his issues made appearances in various episodes that weren't necessarily focused on him, and how they were done in eps that were. So it's proven to be possible. I'd have a bit more of this carefully interspersed, but not so much as the show was overwhelmed in trying to keep track of what was happening to whom. I suppose only a few characters could be highlighted that way per season, while others could get specific episodic focus or mini arcs.

    Related, consistency. Multi-ep arcs do need to have their profile maintained from time to time, or people start to wonder wtf is up and why they were intro'd in the first place. The manner in which some storylines were mentioned and then dropped into dead silence, combined with a brutal schedule in broadcasting, not only left regular viewers hanging and perplexed, it also made me wonder why the show had bothered, or how it expected me to care.

    More fun, quirky cases, where that dark humor can shine thru. More dark cases, where that gritty intensity can shine thru. Less Shiny Glitz and Slickness at the expense of fun, quirky, or dark stuff.

    Fewer mallets. Far fewer mallets.

    I don't need extended feel-good moments tacked on to an ep. Stripey scarves, for example, yer fun, but a little goes a long way that time of year.

    I don't need stunt casting. I am not impressed. Impress me with the writing and people who can do it justice.

    Remove all temporal oddities from the writers' room. I don't want to have to consider quantum physics, warp theory, or do creative reconciliation thru extensive mathematics to figure out how old a character is at any given moment or how something fits into a supposed chronology.

    I did like the fact that there were seasonal references, that some episodes were winter, others spring, that St. Patrick's got a nod. It is nice to feel that sort of anchor, and that the show is not purely existing in an abstract realm. I'd see more of this (and not necessarily simply linked to various holidays).

    I'd tweak the series sense of style, something beyond the montages and cityscape shots ubiquitously paired with horn and traffic doppler fx. S1 had a style, had an identity. It had a signature. CSI is a victim of it's own longevity and success, every crime show has access to a lab nowadays. So what sets one apart? What set it apart in S1? What would I love to have do so agan? The characters and the city. For content, for stories, for vibe, for diversity, for style. That means the writing, the design. I'm not saying the show literally needs to film back east more (but damn some of those shots, especially in the second of the compass killer trilogy, were really f*cking nice), but some way to evoke it more strongly. It should be the undercurrent, not the overt sporadic afterthought.

    The characters would be released from the pigeon-holed straight jackets they're currently consigned to living in. Let them mix and mingle and breathe in 3d, without having to raid James Cameron's closet to borrow his funky glasses.

    I think the rest of what I've been mulling would cross more into the realm of a wishlist, so I'll curtail things here. (That includes DL, because I've no idea how to fix that)


    I don't know that I need to see Mac somehow responsible for the death of another to be made fallible again. But it would be nice to see places where there were things he could not fix, where there could be some related cost (perhaps something like the ep Enough but a step further), things that he had to reconcile were beyond his ability to handle, especially handle alone, or beyond his purvue to take on, which could get into politics etc, and be challenging to him in that light.

    I agree about Danny, but I've long been at a loss as to how to suggest he make a return to form. I just know I'd like it to happen, it could only make the show better and beyond reviving him, makes those around him better for the interaction.

    More generally speaking, These people are all strong willed and passionate, why there isn't more butting of heads at certain points is beyond me. That sort of thing doesn't compromise friendships or professional respect, it often enhances it. Some of the best moments result from that. That could be stuff like blu flu, or Stella and Mac arguing about equipment or a bullet lodged in a horse or unexpected field trips abroad, that could be Stella crapping on Sid and later apologizing, or Flack frustrated by Danny's stolen badge, or stolen gun, or Flack and Mac at odds over a suspect or a dirty cop, or whatever. Mebbe Sheldon was hungry and Adam took the last ho-ho from the vending machine, and wouldn't give it up :p. Why not. There's currently enuff filler in most eps these days where instead the meeting of minds could have different opinions on paths an investigation could take, and further augment what's going on.

    As for Stella, that would be good too. She often suffers similarly as Mac does for righteousness. Something more ambiguous or further in the shades of grey realm could be good for her too, with a cost beyond her conscience.

    Agree with all dis, absolutely.
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  4. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

    May 24, 2009
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    i don't think he needs a major screw up necessarily, but i do think he needs to be less perfect-cop, a mistake or two or something that he can't fix or whatever would be enough i think, just something to make him doubt himself from time to time. something more like this:

    i definitely agree with this - it's been hard to get any kind of continuity of interest going when the eps have been so all over the place.

    it's funny, there were a few things i kinda forgot to put in my long post - i think i lost track of my brain, but yeah, this is one i definitely agree with - i know you posted it as 2 but i think they're linked; the emphasis on edna and such this season has meant less time for character work and has felt decidedly like filler; i think this might be linked to the 1-case eps thing as well; one case is rarely enough to fill the whole ep, and one way to fill up the spare time is to use those montage bits of gizmos with a soundtrack, instead of having time that could be filled with character work or a different case or something. in the older eps the gizmos and gadgets felt like they were helping to solve the case, now they feel more like decoration.

    definitely - i meant to put "no more mallets" in my post as well and forgot but it really bugs me - we're not stupid, we can work things out on our own, and repeatedly koshing us with the mallet of stating the bloody obvious is (a) unnecessary and (b) patronising. patronising viewers is not a good way to keep them on board.

    yeah, i think this ties in with the gizmos thing as well - it definitely follows more of a pattern now - we know that at some point we'll see edna/some other flashy thing that does the job for them, we'll have a big reveal of some info or other, maybe a little chase scene, flack with a one liner as he takes down a perp/mac with a speech as he takes down a perp, some reminder of holy matrimony, maybe a couple of comedy inserts and.... well, probably some glamorous it girl who's been stunt casted. i'd rather see the kind of variation we had in s1/2/3 and ordinary people as criminals, for the most part. the occasional stunt casting works (john mcenroe was great (although is it me, or was his acting better when he was being the lookeylikey than when he was being himself?!) as was criss angel who did surprisingly well at being a deranged nutcase) but i'd rather have unknown actors who can work well than famous names who just seem gimmicky.
    absolutely! i don't mind cliff hangers actually, so long as they're followed through. i know a lot of people didn't like hostage/veritas, but at least in a continuity sense it was wrapped up and didn't just get dropped/forgotten. the best finales were the self contained ones, for sure.

    absolutely - i'm sure most cops know people that they don't work with and it's nice to see that sometimes. i thought terence was great, and i really liked mac's interactions with sinclair as it meant seeing a different side to him, reed and sam were great as well. in fact one of my favourites never even appeared on screen - the mystery girlfriend that danny had in s2, who kept making him listen to coldplay (no wonder he chucked her, even lindsay's better than that ;) ) - she was a great device and we never even saw her! we definitely need more reference to other areas of their lives, because the way things are at the moment, it's too formulaic, the outside characters are good shakers up :)

    agreed - the 333 arc was good like that too, it took several eps to come to a head and in the earlier couple of eps it was almost a side note - mac mentioned the calls on the quiet to stella and flack, but it wasn't some MAJORDEAL, it was an aside, until it became a major deal but by then it seemed a lot more plausible and made sense as a major deal. it's always better with arcs like that to build them up slowly and subtly than to just ram them over our heads (like the danny wheelchair one, the DLaremarried(tm) one, etc)


    absobloodylutely - i think this seems to be a complaint lots of us have - it's not csi:ny now so much as csi:somewhere. s1-3 each had a style of their own but they linked quite nicely too. s4 seemed quite different and since then it's got more generic and further from the earlier stuff. i think the city has been lost, not just in terms of locations but also like you say for atmosphere, diversity, quirks etc.

    absolutely agree, some of the best scenes/storylines have involved intra-team conflict, and they certainly make for something a bit different from time to time, in terms of story and character development.

    hehe :D

    yes, yes she does!

    i also agree that the writers, while they're sitting down as a group to hammer out just how old the characters are supposed to be, should sit and watch the earlier stuff and just make notes and notice how things were different. obviously the characters are meant to have grown/changed since s1 and that's fine, but they've grown away/apart from whatever set the show apart stylistically, and i think they need to reclaim some of the stuff that made the earlier seasons so much better. wow, that was vague.
    Last edited: May 10, 2010
  5. MacsLady

    MacsLady CSI Level Two

    Mar 15, 2007
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    I agree. I think the two case episodes could really do a good job of revitalizing the characters, who all feel a bit 'stuck in a rut' at the minute. Danny and Lindsay especially right now - apparantly being married means that they spend all day every day together and are incapable of significant personal interaction with anyone else. We've had some nice Danny/Flack interaction this season, but it's really like Danny and Lindsay don't have separate lives any more! Also, Lindsay's really been stuck in a rut, she's barely in most episodes, and seems to have been reduced to the role of Danny's Wife Who Occasionally Processes Evidence at the Lab. She got to shine a bit during the racing episode, but that's pretty much been it. She really needs to get away from Danny on a case,and him from her, so we can see the very different chemistry each has with different characters, and see that they are individuals. Mac's been stuck in a bit of a rut too, though there have been some exceptions (Uncertainty Rules) and having him work with one or two other members of the team on a case rather than head up the whole team on an investigation as he's been doing of late, would be good, because the different characters bring out different aspects of his character. I miss seeing Mac and Hawkes exchange banter, or Mac and Stella put their heads together on a case, or Mac having to deal with Danny's more emotional/impulsive tendancies when they worked together, oh, and I really miss Mac and Lindsay and such fun as the onion experiment!

    Definitely. I really miss all that too.

    I really miss both Mac/Lindsay and Danny/Flack working together. Both pairings worked really well and were fun to watch, and brought out different aspects of the Danny and Lindsay characters.

    We definitely need continuity. There are so many things that have just been dropped/forgotten about. Louie, Gerrard, the examples you give.

    I really don't want Mac (or any of the characters, really) to die. But even I am beginning to think that if they don't get Mac out of this rut he's in lately, it might be better if they did. I'd love Gary to stay on the show and Mac to go on, but really, they need to start giving him better stuff. I miss the complexity and versatility of the character in the earlier seasons, and I do think that the increase in criticism of Mac here and elsewhere has to do a lot with the way he's been written lately. I also get annoyed by the perception that his moralistic/high horse tendencies are a new thing, they've always been there but before they used to be combined with other aspects of his character, so weren't as dominant. I also think that because Mac's become stuck in this rut where he's not being given as much versatility/depth as he used to, those flaws, and the 'Supermac' image come out more strongly when they are portrayed.
    I also don't think Gary's going around demanding Mac be this moralistic/preachy cop for the same reasons as you. As for his views on the military/death penalty, I have no problem with them, I think there are probably many law-enforcement/military/ex-military folk who have the same views. Mac's views on those issues are, IMO, actually very fitting with his character and background.

    I really wish they would give Mac some decent stuff. They did a fairly good job of it in the first few seasons (1-4, mostly, though s5 had some good stuff) so we know the writers and Gary are capable of handling that kind of stuff, so I don't know why we haven't been seeing more of that kind of thing in the last couple of seasons.

    I hope they can work it out too. There have been some excellent episodes and storylines, even this season, so we know they can do it right. I hope s7 will show that, if it does I won't mind if Gary, and any of the others, if their contracts are coming up, decide to renew. At the moment, I'm thinking that the way it's going, it's not just Gary's talent which is being wasted, but all of them, in one way or another. And that's a shame, because I love the show and all the characters.

    Yes, she does. We've at least had Stella and the others (Flack and Hawkes) stand up to Mac when his behaviour is out of line/a bit too righteous, we've had Stella. Mac, Flack, Hawkes and even Lindsay pull up Danny when he acted out of line, we had Mac confront Flack re his behaviour in Cuckoo's Nest, but the only one who ever seems to call out Stella when she acts out of line is Mac, which suggests everyone else is fine with whatever she does. I liked seeing Sid holding his ground against Stella in RIP Marina Garito, because though she was right, he didn't know that at the time, and he had every right to defend himself and his original findings. We need to see someone other than Mac tackle Stella on her behaviour when it's out of line - for example on the Greek coin case. Also, I think, like Mac, she would benefit from a storyline where she makes a mistake, or there's something she can't fix.

    I think this^ basically sums up what is wrong with the show, and how it needs to be fixed. NY's always been the most character-centric of the three, and if they could get back what they had in the earlier seasons, and that we have seen, briefly, this season -because they have done some good stuff:
    -Excellent episodes like It Happened to Me and Flag on the Play which brought out Hawkes and Sid in a different light
    -The Compass Killer arc, really good killer, I thought.
    -Flack's arc
    I just hope s7 is the beginning of the return of the reclaiming of the stuff that made the earlier seasons so good. The cast are all a talented bunch, the characters and the city both have great potential, and it's such a shame to see it not being used.
  6. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

    May 24, 2009
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    yeah, i agree - the writing this season seems to have let all of them down. we know danny can be great from past seasons but this time he's just an appendage to lindsay (and vice versa), it's been nice to see stella take charge more this season though. as for hawkes, he seems to have moved away from csi/doctor to life coach, which i find supremely annoying - i'd rather see him have medical insights into evidence (as we've seen in past seasons) than giving little lectures on positivity or whatever. sid/lindsay/adam have inevitably suffered by being so sporadic, and as i've said, mac has definitely suffered, he's changed from a complex character into a rather one dimensional crusader, which is a real shame.
  7. Brinchen

    Brinchen Pathologist

    Jul 17, 2007
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    I can actually only repeat what I said in the season 7 wish thread.

    1) More balance! We have 8 main characters in the show. Show them all! Give them all work to do! What happened to the season 2 dynamic?! Everyone is able to be in the field/interrogate suspects/find the big cool solutions. And yes, they do not need the entire team to solve one case. Which leads me to

    2) Two case episodes. Or you remember, they once even had three case episodes! At the moment that is a wishful dream I guess, but I think two case episodes are a must. We need them back!

    3) Because DL has of course been mentioned by people: I guess it's no surprise that I am happy with the way they are shown. And yes, I want a few shipper scenes as well here and there. Just a little moment here and there that lasts maybe a few seconds is nice also (I'm easy to please, although longer moments would be cool as well of course :p). But that does not mean that I don't want to see them interact with other characters also. I want my shipper scenes, but I also want to see them work together with each other and with other characters, mainly with Hawkes and Stella and Adam. I love it when they are paired up with them (won't list the different pairings here now). Which leads me to

    4) Pair all characters up and let them solve cases with different partners every episode. They all work together so well. Show it.

    5) No storylines that go longer than one episode. Because so far the storylines that could have been handled short went over the top and those that should have been longer were rushed. So just go back to the normal cases from season 2.

    I guess that's it for now.
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  8. MacsLady

    MacsLady CSI Level Two

    Mar 15, 2007
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    Yes, he has. Mac was always a bit of a crusader, but it was combined with other aspects of his character, too. The same with Stella, she's had some good stuff this season and it was great to see her get the chance to lead the team, but another Stella-crusade with Marina Garito was a bit much. It used to be Stella, if anyone from the team, who had the 'life coach' type role they now seem to have assigned to Hawkes, her who would deal out emotional support/ass kickings when needed. I'd really like to see her head up more cases, ideally with Mac taking a more background, but different role like he did in Uncertainty Rules, or have them working different cases, so Stella gets the chance to head up an investigation. I really liked those episodes where we'd see them working different cases and they'd talk to each other and offer support etc about them, I thought that was really nice. I'd also love to see Stella lead an investigation and Danny or someone challenge her on it. We've seen Mac have Danny, Hawkes and Stella challenge him when working a case, so I'd love to see how Stella would deal with that.
    Hawkes definitely needs to stop being the team's life coach and go back to being the doctor/CSI- that was an interesting mix, and brought out both his geeky side (or should I say his N(e)R(d)ish side, LOL), his sense of humour and offered bits of insight into his past (like in And Here's to You Mrs Azrael)
    Sid, Lindsay, Adam just need more screen time.
    I think the two-case format could definitely allow some of these things to happen, it would hopefully give more focus to all the characters, I think, and shake up the team a bit.
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  9. Lori K.

    Lori K. Pathologist

    Jul 26, 2008
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    And then there are those of us who got hooked on the show because of Smack and now find a series of head games. Will Mac like Stella? Will Mac like Peyton? or will Mac like Aubrey? or will Mac chose... They play Mac and Stella as coworkers and friends and then they suggest as they did in GFD that there might be something more (considering Mac chased after Stella to Greece) and P.V. suggested that they explore beyond friendship and then they introduce Stella in bed with Adam and then they have her in Macs office at the end helping him put boxes away. And then Macs heart gets broken by Peyton and Stella comes to comfort him and then they bring Peyton back again and then they have Mac run into Aubrey and then she will be leaving for Afganistan and then they have Stella with Frankie and then Frankie tries to kill her and then they have Drew trying to trick her and then they have Quinn trying to get a little little and then they have the fire fighter trying to get a little little and then Gillian turns back...Nice. And then and then and then there is D/L:rolleyes::wtf: mess and then there is no Adam or Sid and then there is Adam and Sid and then there is Haylen and then there is no Haylen and then there comes the time when you just say enough is enough and just say whats on Abc or Nbc?
    Last edited: May 11, 2010
  10. DetHiggins

    DetHiggins Police Officer

    Sep 24, 2008
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    Okay, so I was thinking the other day about how they have to speed up episodes for time's sake, and I think that it could be handled better.

    I think (and this is just me) that if they want to fill the time slot better, they should slow the show down not speed it up. I've noticed that with the cases lately, it's been going too fast that I can't focus (and I take ADD medicine). The show goes by fast enough without character moments so it's almost too much to force them in there.

    I'd say that NY has lost about a minute to a minute and a half on average to advertisements. Why is this a problem? I'm glad you asked. This may not seem like a lot of time, but it really is when writing/editing an episode. The editors have to take out things that aren't 'relevant' to the story. And so character moments suffer so the story won't.

    I'm thinking that if a case spanned for more than an episode. I'm not saying for like four or more, but if it lasted for maybe two episodes it would give time for character moments. Unfortunately, that would give rise to cliffhangers, which I would rather not have. The good thing with slowing the show down is that it would allow for natural development of characters.

    So those are my thoughts.
  11. tobinhr

    tobinhr Hit and Run

    Jun 24, 2009
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    Most of my criticisms have been addressed (Mac's single-noted personality, Danny/Lindsay, etc.)

    I would like to see them do a light, humorous episode. Vegas does one a year or so, and for me, they are some of most memorable because life isn't all grit and blood. I loved the episode that spoofed Star Trek and this season they did one where the men "kidnapped" another for a birthday trip that went haywire. Fun, and allowed the actors to stretch their comedic legs. Overall, I think the writing on Vegas is stronger than the writing on NY.

  12. Colonel Worf

    Colonel Worf Pathologist

    Mar 8, 2003
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    The show has been going steadily downhill, and I've been mostly disappointed. The magic they had in the earlier seasons is just gone, especially season one.
  13. Queenie

    Queenie Witness

    Dec 26, 2005
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    I voted 'I'm pretty disappointed with the season' . And I'm glad I'm not the only one. Because at some point during the season I thought "Is it just me or does this season suck?" . Well,not the whole season sucked because I liked these episodes

    *Death House
    *Second Chances
    *The Formula
    *Rest In Peace, Marina Garito

    I guess there was some other little bits that were good but honestly I don't remember a lot from this season. So I guess this season was quite forgettable.

    Okay so,what I would like to fix.
    First of all...what is wrong with Mac!? :wtf:
    Like many of you pointed that out. I'm with you on that one.

    I think Mac is getting waaaaay out of the character (a.k.a OOC). And I think Mac is not the only one! This whole serie is getting OOC and out of hand!

    I'm going to quote Stella from 6x01 episode. When she was talking with Mac.

    Stella: "You keep using words like 'Mine' , 'Me' , 'I'. You're not in this alone Mac."

    So this season has been like that. Like some of you said Mac the SUPERMAN.
    That needs to be fixed.
    First they point out that Mac is going all SUPERMAN and that Stella is pointing that out to Mac as well. And still they keep on going like that.

    I'm also getting sick and tired of this love life crap. I can live with Danny/Lindsay relationship. Of course I don't need to be reminded of it almost in every episode. Thank you. I know there are Danny/Lindsay shippers and I respect them. If I was D/L shipper of course I would love to have D/L scenes.
    I don't need to see Mac getting a new love or Stella getting a new love. I want a break from that.
    Give...Hawkes a girlfriend! And pleeeeease let it be someone out of the lab! There's life and people outside the lab too!
    It's OK if Mac is single or if Stella is single for one season! It's not end of the world.
    Other people need love too!

    When Stella slept with Adam I was shocked! I didn't expect that from Stella at all! For me it was OOC...big time!
    So no more of that...PLEASE! Stella said it was one night thing and it won't happen again. I really hope it stays like that. Because that would be the Stella that I know.

    Stella can be Rambo. Keep up with that. She's been through a lot but she has always got back to her feet. Of course seeing her getting hurt time after time is getting kinda old but it also shows how strong she can be. But I would also like to see something different.

    And what comes to Mac & Stella relationship..or friendship. I'm glad they're not completely forgotten. And I don't think they should be forgotten. We've watched them for 6 seasons now. We had some sweet moments this season but I was also little bit dissapointed. I thought that there was couple of potential Smacked scenes but...nothing.
    And I agree with Lori K. of what she wrote earlier. Too much confusing love messes.

    I thought bringing Peyton back was ridiculous. I felt like the writers are running out of ideas!
    And once again Mac was waaaay too OOC! I couldn't believe my eyes!

    Mac's love life triangle. Oh dear Lord. :rolleyes: Do I really wanna come back in season 7 to find out how this all ends up? Not really.
    I've always looked forward to next season and I've always been excited that CSI:NY is coming back. But now...I feel like there's nothing to be excited about. When knowing that this love triangle crap is going to continue I'm not exactly jumping up and down with joy. :shifty:

    More OOC coming up.
    This Shane Casey, Danny's badge stolen thing. I agree. Everyone is cating like it's not a big deal! It's like everyone looses their badges sometimes. "No worries. We get you a new one." . Now wonder whatever happens in season finale happens!

    I might have to get back to this thread but this is what I've got so far.
    I think lots of you have great ideas and point of views. And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that there is something to fix.
  14. calleighspeedle

    calleighspeedle Coroner

    Sep 9, 2005
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    I have to to be fair. I think this has been one of the better seasons of NY. so I voted for the first choice.:thumbsup:
  15. Ballettmaus

    Ballettmaus Hit and Run

    Apr 30, 2009
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    I agree with all those who said there was so much Mac focus. I labeled him SuperMac. But I already did in season 5. It just got worse this season.

    What I want for this show is logic. Can someone please fire Veasey and get a new writer for the show because logic is not one of her strong points. Recently, I even started to wonder if she's secretely in love with Sinise and is envious of Stella because she gets to spend all the time with him. Further, all the characters Mac gets to be potential girlfriends are perfect and have never a dark side.

    I don't expect the show to be perfect but I can expect certain logic. I can expect storylines to be built up and followed up and not dropped out of nowhere and never get picked up again. Which is unfortunately the case. And it's getting worse. Episodes and their contents seem to be done at random, characters get taken in and pop in and out of the show at random as well, just whenever they please and are useful. That nothing's been built prior to that which justifies the characters or a character's reaction, that gets completely forgotten.

    Characters like Aubrey and Peyton don't serve the purpose of the show. They are just there for the sake of being Mac's "love interest", however, that show is not about Mac's love life.
    Drew and Frankie both served a purpose. It wasn't a pretty one. Yet they served the purpose of the show. Neither Aubrey nor Peyton do, so please, get rid of them. At least as appearing characters. If characters have relationships, they're entitled to but I don't need that on CSI NY.
    Personally, I prefer Mac and Stella together, yet if they give him the girl from the street, I wouldn't mind as long as they don't ignore the friendship Mac and Stella have. Which they have done big time in some episodes this season.

    I'd love for the show to respect their characters. They built characters and profiles and backgrounds. Now that they have, they manipulate them like kids manipulate their dolls. One minute the doll is rich and famous and at the beach but the next time the doll is not so well off and skiing in the alps. That's exactly what they're doing with the characters. One minute they're that, the next they're doing this and then it never happens again because it was just suited for that one single episode.
    Profiles and established relationships between the characters are thrown into the trash and/or get ignored.

    Further they bring in episodes like GFD, Death House, Second Chances and even The Formula and then all of a sudden there's Aubrey and I ask myself what the hell is she needed for?
    They should stop forcing something between Mac and Stella. They've built something with them, a deep bond, a strong friendship, a relationship a lot of married couples don't even have. What in the world are they afraid of? Besides, what's done is done, there's no turning back now. Of course, there can be difficulties, there always are but those "difficulties" are brought in just for the sake of it and go against any logic. It makes those episodes mentioned seem as if they were brought in to increase the ratings and get up fans hopes and then they do/write whatever they want again.
    I don't need Mac and Stella kissing all over the place. But their chemistry is great and so is that subtle flirting, the challenging, gestures like going for dinner after work at the end of the show. It's all that is needed because it keeps fans guessing, satisfies those who want them together and doesn't overshadow the show for those who don't watch it for them but for the CSI in general.
    Instead they force them apart and replace Stella with Aubrey and Peyton, showing them in scenes with Mac that usually would have been Stella's.

    That love triangle is absolute soap opera, it's got nothing to do with the show because it's not a soap opera, it's not CSI: Mac but CSI: NY. The relationship between the lead-characters is important, (meaning Mac, Stella, Adam, Danny, Lindsay, Sheldon, Sid) not outside character who don't serve a purpose. I wouldn't watch CSI if I wanted all that sappy stuff. The cases should be in the foreground, relationships in the background. The focus should return to the cases, it should shift away from Mac, especially from the soap opera opera style live drama and back on to the cases.
    On a side note - I think CSI Miami did a great job in dealing with Calleigh's and Eric's relationship, it's not taking over the show, there was not much fireworks around them getting together, yet the manage to get the information in that they need.

    The show has, as others said, more than Mac as a character. They could build something for Sid, for Adam and I agree - Mac needs to lose his hero status.
    They should start using the potential their characters have - which I think the NY characters hold the most.

    Overall but especially what the relationship with Mac and Stella is concerned, I get the feeling that someone in the higher positions cares a damn about what fans want. They have the power and they use that power, playing with the characters just because they can. Doing whatever they want, ignoring logic and continuity just because they can. Just because they want to show they have the power. That's the impression I get. It's childish and it's unprofessional and it's what'll be that shows death.

    (I used a lot of Mac-Stella examples but due to the soap opera it was the one that was most obvious. But where, for example, is the connection Lindsay and Stella had in season 3, and why was it Mac who was becoming Godfather when Mac seemed to have nothing but a professional relationship with Lindsay and was always a bit concerned about Danny. So, there are other things than the Mac and Stella relationship, a lot of those little things, but as I said, Mac and Stella is the one that's the most present at the moment what the relationship negligence between the characters is concerned)
    Last edited: May 25, 2010

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