Horatio/Yelina #9: If You Could Read My Mind....

[Carro]

Most of you H/Y fans on here really has come to the same conclusion as i have - H/Y is simply too late now. I still love H/Y, but it doesn't work anymore. After watching till the end of season three, it's still possible. Even very likely. Until Season 5, 'Burned', there's still somehow a chance. Now, it just feels impossible. Still, i gotta admit i'm glad every time i hear Sofia Milos is gonna be on the show - although lately each time has been a bit of a disappointment.
But nope, i'm not giving up on this ship, although i no longer have a belief it's gonna happen. However i don't think this changes the fact that they once had a great chemistry and that we should hope for better H/Y scenes than we - for example - got in Resurrection. At least i'm gonna keep on hoping for better scenes with Horatio and Yelina, though maybe not romantic ones. In my opinion, simply finding out what's going on in Yelina's life these days and a mentioning of Ray would be great, and i'd be happy with that.

Still, i have this thing that's been bugging me for so long (since resurrection). And i mentioned this in the Horatio thread, though like Wolverine said; it was a bit too shippy for that thread. So i'm just gonna repeat it here, and it'd be great to hear what you guys have to say about it. Oh and I hope i'm not repeating old discussions; i've not been active on here for a very long time...

Well, basically i wonder what the writers thought when they brought Yelina into Resurrection. I don't mind that she's in it at all; but how on earth could Horatio let Yelina think he was dead, thinking of what Ray did to her (and everyone else) in the past? Horatio surely should be aware of how hard it was for her, and how hard it was for him, to discover that the person they thought was dead really wasn't. I really can't understand how he could do that to her.
And i also wonder how Horatio, the man who's supposed to care for his family so much, suddenly is willing to risk Yelina's safety, like he does in Resurrection. Whether he loves her as a family member or something more at this point isn't very interesting; either way he put a family member's life in danger. And to me, that sounds very much unlike the Horatio Caine i've gotten to know on CSI: Miami.
So to sum up what i just said; What were the writers thinking? I think they were really unthoughtful when bringing Yelina back the way they did in this episode. Maybe they have decided that Horatio and Yelina no longer love each other in that way; but this doesn't change the fact that these two do have a history. And nothing the writers can do can change that.

For old times sake.​

 

[drgnldy]

I see only one possibility for them now, and that is this: since their old relationship seems to be water under the bridge, and they have in a sense healed themselves from the Raymond baggage, they are now free to truly fall in love with one another in a way that was never possible before now. Y seems to be doing better than H as far as building a new life and a new self (tho' we've hardly had enough info to really be able to tell), but maybe at some point he too will get some psychological help and get over ALL the stuff in his past (quite a bit of which he is responsible for himself), including Julia. If he reaches the point where he can look out at the world with new eyes and see hope and joy, then perhaps he and Y will see one another with new eyes. They must be able to enter into a fresh relationship unencumbered with the past.

 

[Hrockz]

It was good to see H deal with a problem that he could not solve with a gun or an explosion. And these two do have chemistry. Not the same smoldering, 'lust creeping below the surface' that H/Y did, but they do work well together in a dysfunctional sort of way.

Agreed. I liked seeing H unable to fix things for once. And H/J do have chemistry just not like H/Y like you said.

The article at SM's website said that we would be seeing a stronger side of Yelina this season and that her character was changing. I would agree with some of you that this probably means the end of any romantic future between the two. She does not need him, mostly because she has had to learn to rely on herself while he was busy rescuing the world. And H is a man who desperately needs to be needed....so it was fun while it lasted, or at least until the writers screwed it up 4 seasons ago. Does make for some good memories though.

Yes silk, it makes perfect sense to me. I really don't know what it means when she said her charater is changing, I'm not sure if she's just referring to what she did in 'Resurrection' though. H/J likely spells the end for H/Y but I still don't know why tptb bother to bring her back. Unless Julia is going to meet an end similar to her-who-should-not-be-named.

I still love H/Y, but it doesn't work anymore. Still, i gotta admit i'm glad every time i hear Sofia Milos is gonna be on the show - although lately each time has been a bit of a disappointment.

Carro I think you echo most of our sentiment. IMO, 'Resurrection' was a disappointment H/Y-wise but in terms of Y standing up to Saris without needing H to come to her rescue guns blazing was something I quite enjoyed watching.

But nope, i'm not giving up on this ship, although i no longer have a belief it's gonna happen. However i don't think this changes the fact that they once had a great chemistry

Yup. I'm not giving up on them either, but like you I think it's just not gonna happen. But they did have amazing chemistry and there's yet to be another woman who shares the same sizziling on-screen chemistry as DC and SM on the show.

Well, basically i wonder what the writers thought when they brought Yelina into Resurrection. I don't mind that she's in it at all; but how on earth could Horatio let Yelina think he was dead, thinking of what Ray did to her (and everyone else) in the past? Horatio surely should be aware of how hard it was for her, and how hard it was for him, to discover that the person they thought was dead really wasn't. I really can't understand how he could do that to her.
And i also wonder how Horatio, the man who's supposed to care for his family so much, suddenly is willing to risk Yelina's safety, like he does in Resurrection. Whether he loves her as a family member or something more at this point isn't very interesting; either way he put a family member's life in danger. And to me, that sounds very much unlike the Horatio Caine i've gotten to know on CSI: Miami.

We've talked about this on this thread post-'Resurrection' And I had the same questions as you did. It's very unlike H to not tell Y that's he's faking his death. Makes him hypocritical even, given his reaction to Ray faking his death. Worse still that when he met up with Y, she said something like she couldn't believe he died, and was trying to show her reaction to the whole thing but H kinda disregarded what she said, brushing her off and getting down to what he wanted her to do.

IMO, Y was there only to boost viewership. Not to further H/Y. Given that Y is a strong woman she would have gladly helped H out, even if it meant risking her life. H did tell her to be careful, and I'm inclined to think that H had one thing in mind in that eppy and that was to get those armor-piercing bullets off the streets of Miami and to get Ron Saris. He didn't care the means he just wanted the result.

Bottomline I don't like how they make Y appear in random episodes, at H's beck and call to do him favours. It's not doing Y any justice. It's like she's doing everything for him but he does nothing for her in return.

I see only one possibility for them now, and that is this: since their old relationship seems to be water under the bridge, and they have in a sense healed themselves from the Raymond baggage, they are now free to truly fall in love with one another in a way that was never possible before now.

Which is why it's so frustrating! :scream: Logically speaking, H should've gotten over her-who-should-not-be-named, and Y got over Ray by now. The way for H/Y progression was wide open. *mind going into fan fic mode*

But they had to throw in the whole Kyle and Julia storyline and mess things up.

If he reaches the point where he can look out at the world with new eyes and see hope and joy, then perhaps he and Y will see one another with new eyes. They must be able to enter into a fresh relationship unencumbered with the past.

I think since 'Bombshell', H is changing, but like I said, he's changing because of Julia and Kyle. Not Y. Sad, sad, sad....

 

[Carro]

The article at SM's website said that we would be seeing a stronger side of Yelina this season and that her character was changing. I would agree with some of you that this probably means the end of any romantic future between the two. She does not need him, mostly because she has had to learn to rely on herself while he was busy rescuing the world. And H is a man who desperately needs to be needed....so it was fun while it lasted, or at least until the writers screwed it up 4 seasons ago. Does make for some good memories though.

Yes silk, it makes perfect sense to me. I really don't know what it means when she said her charater is changing, I'm not sure if she's just referring to what she did in 'Resurrection' though. H/J likely spells the end for H/Y but I still don't know why tptb bother to bring her back. Unless Julia is going to meet an end similar to her-who-should-not-be-named.

I hope Julia won't die in the end. If season four never had happened, then Julia dying maybe would've been ok/interesting - depending on how the writers made it happen. But season four did happen, and to repeat the story of a woman Horatio loves - it wouldn't seem likely and it wouldn't be close as.. well, powerful, because it would simply be one time too much.

And as sad as it is, you're both right; H/J probably does spell the end for H/Y.

IMO, Y was there only to boost viewership. Not to further H/Y. Given that Y is a strong woman she would have gladly helped H out, even if it meant risking her life. H did tell her to be careful, and I'm inclined to think that H had one thing in mind in that eppy and that was to get those armor-piercing bullets off the streets of Miami and to get Ron Saris. He didn't care the means he just wanted the result.

Bottomline I don't like how they make Y appear in random episodes, at H's beck and call to do him favours. It's not doing Y any justice. It's like she's doing everything for him but he does nothing for her in return.

I don't like it either; how Yelina turn up in random episodes just to help Horatio and then not coming back again until H needs her another time. Like you said, Wolverine; that really isn't to do Yelina any justice.
On the other hand, i don't want Yelina to leave the show. I still love her character and think it'd be really sad if either she or the writers decide that her role on CSI Miami is over. But on the other hand - if the writers are gonna use the character Yelina as a tool Horatio can use when he needs to solve a case, then there's no fun in it. Yelina and Horatio have a history, and if the writers aren't gonna care about it, then everything Yelina does on the show will seem fake and unreal. I'd rather say goodbye to Sofia Milos' character than having her on the show only when Horatio needs a favour, without getting anything from Horatio in return.

 

[drgnldy]

I'd rather say goodbye to Sofia Milos' character than having her on the show only when Horatio needs a favour, without getting anything from Horatio in return.

I agree. They aren't treating Y or Sofia with any dignity or respect. It's terrible that the J story line has made us all feel the same way. Other women we could see past, but we're having trouble with J. I don't know about the chemistry, because I refuse to watch. If J dies (by her own hand or some other way) will we have to go through years of mourning (again) like we did with she-whom-we-do-not-name?

 

[Carro]

If J dies (by her own hand or some other way) will we have to go through years of mourning (again) like we did with she-whom-we-do-not-name?

If Julia dies, that might be what we're facing. But honestly i don't think she will. Because although the writers have made me disappointed many times, i can't believe they'd kill her. Surely they must realise how bad that would be?

The only thing that might be good if she dies, is what's gonna happen to Kyle. Maybe then we'd get to see much more Kyle and Horatio scenes. But surely the writers realise that there are ways to make good father/son scenes without killing Julia?

Nah, i really don't want to believe they'll kill her. However, if they do kill her, i for one will be extremely disappointed.

Back to Yelina;
Does anyone have a clue if/when Yelina's gonna be on the show again?

 

[Hrockz]

I have no idea when SM is supposed to be on the show again.

You're right Carro. Killing J would be re-visiting a storyline.

It's just that with J around, how's H gonna realise he still has feelings for Y, if any? Especially since J is Kyle's mother and she is bipolar hence needing alot of help from H.

 

[Carro]

I have no idea when SM is supposed to be on the show again.

Hmm... My hope is that she'll be on the show a couple of more times this season, and that we then will see some better scenes between H and Y. Maybe not romantic ones, because i just have a feeling that is to hope for a little bit too much; but at least scenes with a mention of Ray, or just about something else than the job Yelina's gonna do for him.

It's just that with J around, how's H gonna realise he still has feelings for Y, if any? Especially since J is Kyle's mother and she is bipolar hence needing alot of help from H.

You've got a good point, Wolverine. Yelina is strong, but next to Julia, she'll appear to be very strong and simply not in need of help. And like earlier mentioned; Horatio needs a needy woman, and if he's gonna have Julia and Yelina as choices, then it's pretty easy to tell whom he'll help. Man, that sounded so sad. I mean - does he still love Yelina, if he can't have another woman around to realise he loves her?
No matter how i try to put it, i come to the same conclusion; Yelina's not the one Horatio has to help anymore, not the one Horatio loves anymore.

But still, somehow.... In my opinion, Y and H loved each other so much in S3. Can that love just be forgotten, have disappeared completely now?

 

[silk]

drgnldy said: It's terrible that the J story line has made us all feel the same way. Other women we could see past, but we're having trouble with J."

Do you think that the reason the H/J relationship bothers us so much is because it is the only relationship with another woman that really poses a real threat to a future between H/Y? The rest were just warm bodies filling the space for a little drama/angst,(and whatever else our H likes to do with warm bodies!) H has a past with Julia. One in which he openly admitted to be serious about her. They share a child which probably trumps any connection or history that Horatio may have with Yelina. And that connection will alway be a priority for him, no matter what or who he loves. Yelina is sharp enough to realize this and since she has been side-stepped for lesser reasons in the past, probably knows when to admit defeat where this man is concerned. At least tgtb are not writing her in to scenarios where she has to make hang-dog moonie eyes because H is with someone else the way they did for H when Y was with Stetler! I guess they are allowing her SOME dignity(if you screw your eyes up and cross them and squink reeeel hard, you can almost see it there.)
Will be interesting to see what they come up with for sweeps week. With a season opener as lame and choppy as this season's, they wouldn't have to go too far to improve upon it. They had a writer's strike at this time last year. This year's season, at least so far and for what I have seen of it (Boston Legal is on a roll for their final season) makes me think that we would have been better off with the strike and our imaginations firmly in place! Sorry. "Always with the negative vibes!"

 

[Kit4na]

The H/J relationship doesn't bother me at all, infact I wouldn't care if H started something with Julia. It's heaps better than she who shouldn't be named..

What does bother me is, that yet again, they find something to stand in the way of H/Y. Like I said I do like H/J BUT they've (tgtb) have been playing with us for several seasons now, always throwing in something to stop H/Y from moving forward. So I'm not bothered by H/J, just by the idea of them stringing us along once again. If H/J had happened before the whole "Aerosol" fiasco, and before we even knew that was gonna happen, I wouldn't have a problem with it. They are a good pair.. but now it's just bad timing since I'm already pissed off by tgtb giving us hope and crashing it once more.. I hope everyone understands what I mean, wasn't very easy to explain it haha

 

[rahkira]

drgnldy said: It's terrible that the J story line has made us all feel the same way. Other women we could see past, but we're having trouble with J."

...H has a past with Julia. One in which he openly admitted to be serious about her. They share a child which probably trumps any connection or history that Horatio may have with Yelina. And that connection will alway be a priority for him, no matter what or who he loves. Yelina is sharp enough to realize this and since she has been side-stepped for lesser reasons in the past, probably knows when to admit defeat where this man is concerned. At least tgtb are not writing her in to scenarios where she has to make hang-dog moonie eyes because H is with someone else the way they did for H when Y was with Stetler! I guess they are allowing her SOME dignity(if you screw your eyes up and cross them and squink reeeel hard, you can almost see it there.)

The person for whom I feel saddest in all this is Kyle. Nothing like feeling your parents are staying together because of you. What a terrible burden to lay on a child. I can't see H ever feeling J is his equal; she'll always be someone he needs to take care of. What kind of lesson about women is that gonna send to Kyle? Given the important roles women are playing in the world nowadays, isn't it at least time for TGTB at CSI to catch up with reality. BTW, the Chief of Police here in San Francisco is a woman!!!

Despite most of the sentiment here, I truly hope the H curse lives, at least for one more female. Remember, J's already slept with him at least once (remember Kyle?)

 

[Hrockz]

I seriously think H/Y is never gonna happen.

Spoiler: H/J

According to the interview CSIFiles had with Corey Miller, H is going to be "exploring his feelings towards Julia". Although he did say there is conflict between H and J in terms of Kyle.

Anyone interested to read further about the interview and H/J, the link is here:

Corey Miller Interview

The other non-H/J things mentioned in the interview sounds really good though, especially for the other characters. Sorry OT.

 

[Lucy]

I seriously think H/Y is never gonna happen.

Spoiler: H/J

According to the interview CSIFiles had with Corey Miller, H is going to be "exploring his feelings towards Julia". Although he did say there is conflict between H and J in terms of Kyle.

Anyone interested to read further about the interview and H/J, the link is here:

Corey Miller Interview

The thing is, the Miami writers seem to change storylines with the direction of the wind, so who's to say that H/Y won't be a storyarc they decide to bring back in a later season? H/J is just their latest 'great' idea. They have shown a complete lack of integrity for a long time now. Just how many women has H had 'deep' feelings for? I think the H/J deal really does cheapen everything the writers established regarding H/Y, not to mention the Horatio character. The shame of it is that we were all so invested in this and it seems, at the moment, to have fizzled out to nothing. I'll just keep an eye on when Sofia is next due to appear, and live with my memories of the first 3 seasons. Thank the gods for other far superior tv shows that know how to reward a loyal audience.

I have to say though, that I have a lot to thank CSI:M, H/Y and Talk CSI for. I have met some great people here - friends for life, so I am truly grateful for that. The fact that the writers have let us down badly is very unfortunate and shameful on their part, but in the whole scheme of things, I'm still glad H/Y has been part of my TV world.

 

[MiamiDade]

Thank the gods for other far superior tv shows that know how to reward a loyal audience.

So Say We All!

I have to say though, that I have a lot to thank CSI:M, H/Y and Talk CSI for. I have met some great people here - friends for life, so I am truly grateful for that. The fact that the writers have let us down badly is very unfortunate and shameful on their part, but in the whole scheme of things, I'm still glad H/Y has been part of my TV world.

Shameful is absolutely right. It's admirable to look at the bigger picture this way, though. I wholeheartedly feel the same. *hugs* H/Y evidently had too much subtance for this show. The first 3 seasons were great, but the lack of any further development leaves a rather empty vibe about all of this. It's all so unsatisfying. I also agree that we may see the storyarc make a return. I hope H can become worthy of Y, because right now, Julia is welcome to him!

How about we just airlock the writers?

 

[TallyHo]

Adding a third and resounding "So Say We All" to Luce's and MD's comments. The first three seasons of Y/H were meaningful and possessed a definite air of expectancy...of an impending way forward. Post S3 has been nothing short of an escalating abysmal mess. Does anyone even recognize post S3 Horatio? Honestly, he's morphed into a colossal prat! I really don't see how DC can continue to play this character in the way it's written. MD, air locking sounds about right.

I would also emphatically agree with Luce and MD that the best outcome of Y/H has been the bonds of friendship forged as a result of the real affection we had for a series and a pairing that held much promise but ultimately failed in the follow through. As disappointing as post S3 has been, my overall take on this (thanks to the soothing balm from other infinitely more worthy series) is that we'll always have S1-S3.