Horatio & Yelina #5 ~ How Can I Not Love You?~

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I also have always wondered if he (Ray Sn.) was not physically abusive to Y. Don't know why for sure but some women tend to fall into that trap more than once and it happened with Stetler,
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can i say my point of view too ;) for me there is big difference between Y/Ray Sn. and Y/Stetler relationship. in meaning Y is strong, independent and stiff character. she also is smart and beautiful. all this Y`s quality can ....uhhh how to say it...'make problems' in her relationship or marriage. for all that i know for Ray Sn., his character is 'weak', changeable and selfish. well how woman like Y can tolerate such behaviour. so i agree in this point that in Y/Ray Sn. marriage have a lot problems long time ago. ;) but when it come to Stetler...uhhh...for me here have difference. As strong and smart is Y, Stetler for me don`t step away from her quality. my own opinion in Y/Stetler 'case' that we have two character 'crash'. in real life sometimes have examples that mans don`t 'like' woman to bе equal with them. so in my imagination Stetler try to play boss (master man) in her house and Y don`t like it at all. they have some scandals/squabble maybe who will be on top of this relationship or can be equal in rights, or how to be take decision for theirs future... in the end Y don`t let Stetler go over her head, he lose control and bingo we have "Crime wave"...
 
I recall a long time ago (in a galaxy far, far away) having some interesting discussions in the Miami forum about the possibility that Raymond may have been violent towards Yelina (and possibly Ray Jnr too). Yelina's dialogue in 'Big Brother' certainly presents this possibility:

"Drugs. Well, he started for the job so he would gain their trust, and then he got hooked. He didn't want Ray Junior and myself to find out, so he would stay away for weeks and weeks at a time. Well, he.... he did it to protect us, yeah."

To me this implied that Raymond didn't trust himself around them. Maybe he was violent or got very close to being violent and decided it was best that he stay away. Or, he could have wanted to stay away so that the shady individuals he was getting involved with (Chaz and co, 'Freaks and Tweaks') couldn't trace his family if things turned nasty.

There are several potential scenarios here, and it's a shame that the writers never put us a little more in the picture. I have always hoped that in the future, Yelina may reveal how things really were between her and Raymond. I think there is probably a lot H doesn't know. We also have to remember that H and Raymond were brought up by an abusive father, so this may have had some influence.

I doubt we will ever find out though. Another example of Miami's great lost potential, unless, of course, they who should be ashamed can prove me wrong. ;)
 
I never really thought that Ray could have been abusive to Y. But like Luce said they did grow up with an abusive dad, and not everyone will cope well like H. But then again not everyone with a bad childhood turns out an axe murderer.

I like your take on the Ray/Y and Rick/Y relationships Pusher . Very good explaination of the black eye in 'Crime Wave'.

The Ray abusive fact is an intersting idea for my fic. But I think HnM handled they Ray/Y past very well in her fic so I may not go into that.

;)Speaking of which my next instalment based on '10-7' is up at the fan fic forum.

http://talk.csifiles.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=1083198&an=0&page=0#Post1083198

Go check it out.

Any more pics coming up Luce ? I get my inspiration for writing here. :)
 
Kit4na said:
I'm not quite sure that Ray JR is going to be happy. Yes Ray jr likes H a lot. But have you seen the teenage version yet? He adores his dad, I don't think he's going to be pleased.

By the way any news on SM yet?
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Lol, the new RayJr was on CSI:NY season1. I think it's the episode "Tri-Borough" -- he killed a guy.
 
Any more pics coming up Luce ?
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Yes, I believe we are up to 'Dead Zone', which is very much an unsung H/Y episode. There's some lovely interaction between the two. I have a few pics from this episode, but here's one to get us started. :)

tn_hhdz2-1.jpg


More later, time and other obsessions, er, interests permitting! I will read your fic update later too Hrockz. ;)
 
hummm i too don`t have think over this that Ray Sn. can be in some points violent towards Yelina ... maybe ur right Lucy :rolleyes: btw thanks for the pic from 'Dead Zone' ;) do u remeber guys the jealous Y face, when H 'stare' in bad guy wife :devil:

anyway back to the topic, why for me Ray can`t be violent with his family. in first place hi is Horatio brother. even they to have bad childhood i just don`t think that this can make Ray violator. (H never will let his bro to become monster like theirs dad). don`t know why, but i feel it this way. these two brothers know what is to be torment, and will do theirs best noone to feel this way. for me that`s why they become cops. to help peoples. the fact that Ray go to be undercover cop is example that first he is good cop, and second can play good this job coz know what is to be on the other side. somehow all of this make me believe that Ray accept to be undercover, only coz he have some problems in his marriage. he don`t feel ready to take such responsibility to have son and take care for him and his wife. aslo he alway have been is his bro shadow and what to prove that can be perfect as H. in the end Ray sn. at first try to run away from his family (maybe want/try to find his true 'I"), but at last it`s turn out that he is addicted to drugs - and coz of this he was gone week after week. even pretend that he is dead only to defend his family (or maybe to hide form his big bro reproach look) . wow hope some of this to make sense ;)
 
even pretend that he is dead only to defend his family
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I think Raymond's priority was looking after himself to be honest. He left Yelina, Ray Jnr and Horatio to cope with all the scandal that the circumstances of his 'death' created. We mustn't forget that he was a dirty cop and he had the option to come clean. Instead, he went undercover, working for the Feds as part of a deal to avoid prosecution. H had it about right in their conversation in '10-7':

H: How does a man allow his wife and son to believe he's dead, Raymond?
R: When he's got no other choice, Horatio.
H: I begged you not to work Narcotics, didn't I?
R: Feds had me dirty on tape. They made me an ultimatum.
H: Let's see, how does it work? You fake your own death, you join them, and you avoid prosecution.

I would say that Raymond was pretty selfish in all of this. I agree though that he probably always lived in the shadow of his brother and I imagine he had the best intentions of being a good cop when he first started out. He just got in over his head. I'm just speculating that he was possibly violent as a result of being a drug addict and losing control. I would like to hope that it didn't come to that.

His childhood may have effected him too, but who knows. Everyone reacts differently to such experiences and with no elaboration from the writers, we are in the dark here.
 
wow, a very interesting discussion started here.

so, I can't hold back my opinion, if you want to read it or not. :p

I don't think that Ray was violent against Yelina or Ray jr. As mentioned Horatio would never allow it that Ray would hurt Yelina or his son. He would know it sooner or later, because Horatio is good at reading people. Yelina wouldn't be able to hide it.
I do think that Yelina and Ray had a lot of problems during their marriage. Ray was often away for weeks and so Yelina had to raise their son on her own. I can see a lot of fights between them.
I know Miami doesn't show a lot about the character's life, but the first talk between Ray and Yelina would have been so interesting. Was she mad at him for leaving his familiy and pretending his own death? or did she forgive him and did she want to start a new life with a clean slate?

about the dialouge in 10-7. I so agree with you Lucy (thanks for the pics BTW) Ray was selfish and a coward. :p
 
Thanks for the pic Luce .

I can't really remember the 'Dead Zone' ep. I rememebr watching that scene looks like they were having intense conversation but I can't remember what it was about. I also can't rememebr the jealous Y part Pusher mentioned.
Anyone care to enlighten me?

I would imagine Y would be mad at Ray Sr. I would if I were her. But I have great admiration for Y. It's not easy to be a working mom bringing up a son alone. I think it was good H was there to help out. But I really like SM's character she was written as such a strong woman something I really like, but too bad they decided to write her out and towards the end and even in 'Rio' she appeared weaker than she originally was. But I'm sure whatever she did, it was aleays for Ray Jr. Not sure if you get what I mean here.

But of course even strong women need a good man to help her out in times of need, ie Horatio :D

Anyway a short update of my fic is up, check it out if you're free.

http://talk.csifiles.com/showflat.php?Ca...ID=#Post1087305

If you guys are tired of me informing you of my fic updates here let me know and I'll keep my post strictly to this H/Y thread stuff. Hope I didn't offend any mods :(
 
As far as I know Hrockz, it is fine to post links to your fan fic updates in this thread, just as long as you are posting about other H/Y related things too - which you are, so no worries. ;)

I for one am very glad you post links here, because I often check this thread, but I don't always check the Fan Fic Forum. :)

In 'Dead Zone', a not so sweet, innocent widow slghtly comes onto H. He doesn't bite - obviously ;), but Yelina is in the background keeping an eye on the situation. There is a pic out there which I imagine might appear here at some point...hint, hint. :D
 
*throws herself out of the lurker closet*

Sorry to drop in so sudden (yup, I lurk in this thread when I can, though I haven't followed some of the more recent discussion because I'm still watching S3, lol).

But I assume MD that you are referring to this scene?

I actually didn't notice Yelina still standing in the background until dear Luce pointed it out to me :lol: But yeah, that was cute the way Yelina was keeping an eye on our H there :D

*goes back to lurking*
 
hey, Hrockz keep post ur fanfic update link, i love to read it ;) u know that life sometimes is a lot busy and i don`t have time to post in ur thread, sorry for this :(

I can't really remember the 'Dead Zone' ep. I rememebr watching that scene looks like they were having intense conversation but I can't remember what it was about. I also can't rememebr the jealous Y part Pusher mentioned.
Anyone care to enlighten me?
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i was talk for this scene, beautiful lady come on H view....and Y show err...jealous heheh a lot like in ' Hurricane Anthony' epi moment :devil:


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one more try for help u remember 'Dead Zone' epi, the little anim. part of my banner is from there. H and Y have one so sweet chat about theirs treasure ;) of course we all know what is theirs treasure hehe :devil:

Y: Always standing guard.
H: well, there's all kinds of pirates out there.
Y: What would you do if you found a treasure?
H: What would you do?
Y: Me? Wear better jewelry. I don't know.. travel... Get Ray Jr. into private school. But you didn't answer my question. If you found a treasure, what would you do?
*phone ring*
H: Hang on a second.

and wibbs nice to see u here. :D coz u don`t have see all S3 epis is not good excuse that u don`t post here :p ur going make me put Take That poster one ur door till don`t say ur thoughts over H/Y relationship heheh j/k :lol:
 
Very nice pics Pusher. Thank you! :D Thanks also to wibbs (very nice to see you here) - I do believe that is the pic MD was referring to. ;) I have a similar one, which I might as well post....

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I think the widow's name was Gabriella Betancourt and here's a piece of dialogue. She has just told H she has a place in Palm Springs:

Mrs B: You ever get out to Palm Springs...Lieutenant Caine?

H: Only on business. Will there be anything else?

Mrs B: Apparently not. (she leaves)

H: (to Yelina) Insistent lady.

Y: Lady?

:D
 
I wish that H had turned his phone off at the end of "Dead Zone." The first time I watched the episode I thought he was going to say "I already found my treasure." Corny but hey! :D
 
I don't think Ray jr is going to make it hard for H and Y
altough he's not going to be an easy teenager , I think his respect and love for his mother and uncle are much stronger!
Everytime he got into trouble it was Horatio who helped him. Always H, never his dad, OK , he thought his dad was dead but now he realises everything was fake he knows his father always had the option to help him. i know he defended his father very much in Rio, but I think in the meanwhile Horatio and Yelina have explaned the whole situation , showing his Raymond didn't always do the right thing for his son but for himself. Ray jr loves his mother, respects her for beeing strong in the hard times, and like all of us he knows she's happy when she's with horatio.I think the only reason Ray wouldn't accept it, is because the writers want to extend the H-Y relationship.
 
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