Horatio/DC #15: 'Back To Basics'

Then there are the hidden elements that we don't know- is it a fact that audiences are just tired of the whole CSI franchise? Is it something that David Caruso did or has done behind the scenes that has vexed someone so that the writer/producer/ creative staff just got fed up and with so many changes to personnel in that area, things just fell apart.

Or, did David himself decide to direct or produce but not to be listed in the credits for it and has turned the show purposely into the design that he thought was right?

{SIGH} And again the presumption is that David is responsible for anything and everything that goes wrong with this show.

David has a significant number of outside interests that seem to be a much greater priority to him than writing, producing (although I've heard many stories that lead me to believe that he cares for the cast and crew like a producer would - without credit) and directing this sorry mess.

I'm sorry to disappoint, but you'd better turn that blame spotlight on the individual who has asked for and received every storyline she's asked for since season 3 - even though her demands are KILLING the show. Whose storyline is the focus of the show and puts her and the boyfriend she demanded front and center while everyone else, including Caruso, is placed in the background.

Don't blame the problems with CSI Miami on Caruso. He's the only reason a LOT of people continue to watch this trainwreck.
 
Is it something that David Caruso did or has done behind the scenes that has vexed someone so that the writer/producer/ creative staff just got fed up and with so many changes to personnel in that area, things just fell apart.

Or, did David himself decide to direct or produce but not to be listed in the credits for it and has turned the show purposely into the design that he thought was right?
:scream:
I have to take issue with the comments that David would (1) exercise supreme negative power over cast/crew/tptb, and (2) that he alone might be responsible for undeserved 'vexing' of others, to the point of their quitting, causing the ruination of the show.
:wtf:
There is often an underlying presumption of Divaism laid at David's door, to the exclusion of other more notable candidates for the title. David certainly retains primary authority over Horatio's portrayal and persona, but that power is diminished in the case of other characters and/or their scripts.
:guffaw:
Last, in what universe would one make the assumption David Caruso has taken on directing and producing chores without proper credit?
 
Gentle peoples:

I'm not trying to lay blame on anyone, especially David. As much as admire his abilities in many areas and greatly appreciate his uniqueness, which he brought to bear to make Horatio Caine a character that no one else could duplicate (like only Larry Hagman can be J.R. Ewing), I have heard rumors. They may just BE rumors, I don't know. I'm speculating, not accusing and perhaps my tone did not convey that enough- I am not and never will be a David Caruso basher- no way, not ever!

I have lost sleep over this past event with what happened to DLS and instead of counting sheep, I've been trying to analyze (and not for the first night) what has gone wrong to where this show is on the edge of getting canned. I realized that I didn't know enough to figure out why, so I needed to go with what I've heard.

But I want to finally get to the truth, whether it contains unpleasant elements or not. I wanted to know if he was involved or not. I now know that he was not and that eases my mind- I know that David is practical minded ( I really admire that about him the most!) and I've been told he loves playing Horatio (or it is being? LOL) so it wouldn't make sense for him to deliberately sabotage things.

Can anyone say who these vexing people are or is it a secret? I'd appreciate it.

P.S. Delynn and inthewind :As for not being allowed to being listed for work behind the scenes, the "rumor" (and this is why rumors are dangerous) that I heard is that David is still getting payback for leaving NYPD Blue under the circumstances that he did- that in fact, it's a punishment- you can do the work but we won't mention your name- (at the behest of TPTB). Now, I don't know whether this is true, this is what I have heard- that again is why rumors are dangerous. I respect the man, especially his business acumen and entrepreneurial drive which I've commented on elsewhere. I would never be a basher of his in any universe, but I won't hesitate to ask the hard questions, if that is what it takes to get to the truth. I hope to be enlightened- I equally hope things turn around so that the show can continue. If he's tired of it though, that's sad- Horatio is such a great character and it's because of David that Horatio is that one of kind special character that means so much to so many, especially to me, first and foremost.

Peace,
ruby&theheadmen
 
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Personally, I'm leaning more toward Ann Donahue, Mark Dube and Barry O'Brian being at fault for the storyline that exited DLS from the show. I'd like to know why they felt they had to disgrace the character in such a ridiculous way that was very hurtful to his fans. I know of many of his fans who were made physically ill by watching what they did to Rick Stetler, myself included.

But to answer the question of whether or not an actor can write and direct anonymously: Patrick MacGoohan did that in "The Prisoner" under the name "Paddy Fitz".

ruby, I sent you a PM. Did you get it???
 
Personally, I'm leaning more toward Ann Donahue, Mark Dube and Barry O'Brian being at fault for the storyline that exited DLS from the show. I'd like to know why they felt they had to disgrace the character in such a ridiculous way that was very hurtful to his fans. I know of many of his fans who were made physically ill by watching what they did to Rick Stetler, myself included.

But to answer the question of whether or not an actor can write and direct anonymously: Patrick MacGoohan did that in "The Prisoner" under the name "Paddy Fitz".

ruby, I sent you a PM. Did you get it???


Not yet, I'll have to add you. I shall try to do so.:) Thanks
 
There was never a question of whether an actor could write and/direct without credit. The comment was reserved specifically for David, who would not be likely to do so. A rumor suggesting a penalty for an action over 15 years old, in another venue, with completely different players, speaks to the extent of 'rumor absurdity'.

All the questions may be valid, but they won't be answered here. This forum will only serve to exacerbate existing rumors or start new ones.
It wasn't my intent to question anyone's loyalty, only the wisdom of speculating in an open arena.
 
There was never a question of whether an actor could write and/direct without credit. The comment was reserved specifically for David, who would not be likely to do so. A rumor suggesting a penalty for an action over 15 years old, in another venue, with completely different players, speaks to the extent of 'rumor absurdity'.

All the questions may be valid, but they won't be answered here. This forum will only serve to exacerbate existing rumors or start new ones.
It wasn't my intent to question anyone's loyalty, only the wisdom of speculating in an open arena.

Okay, I can accept that wisdom- in some areas it's better to let "sleeping dogs lie" as they say and in forums in general these days that is the truth. We'll just have to see how things go for the show in the future- I sure hope for success as always.:)
 
Gentle peoples:

I'm not trying to lay blame on anyone, especially David. As much as admire his abilities in many areas and greatly appreciate his uniqueness, which he brought to bear to make Horatio Caine a character that no one else could duplicate (like only Larry Hagman can be J.R. Ewing), I have heard rumors. They may just BE rumors, I don't know. I'm speculating, not accusing and perhaps my tone did not convey that enough- I am not and never will be a David Caruso basher- no way, not ever!

Rumors where? From whom? Where did they get their information? David's stalker was the queen of vicious rumors and lies and they are still out there all over the Internet. Caruso basher/haters seize every negative lie and rumor they can find to keep the negativity going.

I have lost sleep over this past event with what happened to DLS and instead of counting sheep, I've been trying to analyze (and not for the first night) what has gone wrong to where this show is on the edge of getting canned. I realized that I didn't know enough to figure out why, so I needed to go with what I've heard.

Going with the rumors you've heard is one way to go, I suppose. It's your choice. But as someone whose been a fan of David's for a long time I know how difficult, actually next to impossible, it is to get any fair or unbiased information regarding him. The malicious and vindictive things his stalker put out there and bloggers and critics picked up and ran with, are still out there and being used to crucify him whenever it's convenient.

This "rumor" sounds pretty damned convenient to me.

But I want to finally get to the truth, whether it contains unpleasant elements or not. I wanted to know if he was involved or not. I now know that he was not and that eases my mind- I know that David is practical minded ( I really admire that about him the most!) and I've been told he loves playing Horatio (or it is being? LOL) so it wouldn't make sense for him to deliberately sabotage things.

Well you're certainly not going to get to the truth listening to, and even unintentionally helping to spread negative rumors.

There is absolutely no logical reason that David would ask for DLS to be written off the show. Those two had amazing chemistry as actors and Horatio and Rick had a incredible dynamic when they interacted.

DLS could have asked to be written off. They could have written him off as one method of finding the money to bring Rodriguez back. Who knows. But speculation that automatically assumes that David was the one who said get rid of him, I think gives David more power then people like to assume he has and also doesn't give him enough credit for being an extremely intelligent and very professional actor.

Can anyone say who these vexing people are or is it a secret? I'd appreciate it.

P.S. Delynn and inthewind :As for not being allowed to being listed for work behind the scenes, the "rumor" (and this is why rumors are dangerous) that I heard is that David is still getting payback for leaving NYPD Blue under the circumstances that he did- that in fact, it's a punishment- you can do the work but we won't mention your name- (at the behest of TPTB). Now, I don't know whether this is true, this is what I have heard- that again is why rumors are dangerous. I respect the man, especially his business acumen and entrepreneurial drive which I've commented on elsewhere.

Not for a second do I believe that! :guffaw: I firmly believe that David has moved on from NYPD Blue, even though a lot of fans just can't seem to let it go. For pete's sake Dennis Franz has moved on and wished David the best. People need to get the hell over it already. David didn't hurt anyone but himself with his decisions and actions at that time.

Listen to the commentary on the CSI episode that introduces CSI Miami. Donahue LOVES David. There is no reason why she would allow that kind of "punishment" on a production where she has the power (she kept the network from killing off Delko like they wanted!). David has proved himself in the last 8 years. He is devoted to CSI Miami and people need to move on from NYPD Blue. :scream:

I would never be a basher of his in any universe, but I won't hesitate to ask the hard questions, if that is what it takes to get to the truth. I hope to be enlightened- I equally hope things turn around so that the show can continue. If he's tired of it though, that's sad- Horatio is such a great character and it's because of David that Horatio is that one of kind special character that means so much to so many, especially to me, first and foremost.

Peace,
ruby&theheadmen

The "hard questions" need to be directed to TPTB in a private communication then.

I've never heard David ONCE indicate that he is tired of playing Horatio or tired of CSI Miami. Everyone in the cast that I've seen interviewed has been postive and eager to come back. The ONLY one who has said she is tired, in numerous interviews, is Emily Procter.

David recently stated that the good thing about the show is that it can reinvent itself and continue to tell good stories. I don't know that I have faith any longer, but I hope he's right because his show is in serious trouble and I believe it's because David doesn't assert himself.

Take a step back and look at who is getting the major screen time and storyline and you'll answer your own question about who's in charge on that set and driving the storylines that are killing the show!
 
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GrueGilsGal, you have up to 24 hours to edit your posts so if you need to add anything additional to one you've just made, then you have that option. Back to back post can be considered spam-ish so aren't allowed on the forum. You might want to check out the forum guidelines here.

Thanks! :)
 
To Delynn and all other concerned parties: I apologize if in anyway I seemed to present myself as a rumor monger. I have no, absolutely NO bad intentions towards David in any way, shape or fashion. I know about that stalker, about her existence but not too much else, thank heavens, about her except that she was a most dangerous person. I sure never intended to give credence to what she said. I never even knew that she started the NYPD Blue payback rumors.

I'm grateful that you have clarified things for me. I'm satisfied with the answers you have provided. I've chosen to respond this way instead of using a quote since it would have made this post overly long. I believe that I'm too small in the world for TPTB to ever give me a straight answer and your clarifications are what I can accept as the truth-something that will satisfy my need of clarification in this matter. Again, apologies to everyone. I'm glad David still wants to do the show and I too, hope for it to stay on and be a complete success.

Sincerely,
ruby&theheadmen
 
I sure never intended to give credence to what she said. I never even knew that she started the NYPD Blue payback rumors.

Hi Ruby,

David's stalker didn't start the NYPD Blue backlash story. But she took every accusation, ugly rumor and lie to epic proporations with the help of unfriendly bloggers, hateful fans and critics. She created and spread, through a huge number of websites and an untold number of fake identities (sockpuppet has her picture in the dictionary), as many hateful and ugly rumors as her sick mind could come up with.

And people who dislike David were more than happy to believe everything and anything she put out there and keep it going. Some still do!

It was obvious to everyone that David's decision to leave NYPD Blue early was a questionable career decision that had a long-term negative effect.

David has admitted that during the latter part of his time on NYPD Blue he behaved very badly and has apologized until he is blue in the face. He has said over and over and over again that he learned his lesson the hard way and the industry certainly drove the message home with a drought of work after he left the show.

He learned his lesson. And rumors that everyone keeps putting out there whenever there appears to be anything wrong with the show or someone in the cast isn't happy that it's David fault is BS.

Do a search of the Internet sometime and see what fans who have actually MET David say about him. I think you'll be surprised at the over the top number of people who say he is the most friendly and nice guy they've ever met.

David does not control every aspect of what happens on CSI Miami. I don't think Horatio would be the second string character he's become if David had the input people think he has.

Rumors are usually started, and perpetuated, by people with some kind of an agenda. The fact that these rumors are rearing their ugly head again, after almost 20 years for god's sake, tells me someone has a negative agenda going. Possibly they are trying to deflect some negativity that may be directed their way and put it on someone who is a very easy target because any ugly accusations thrown at David are so easily taken as fact by the haters.

These accusations, ugly rumors and lies just get old after a while.

Thanks for understanding, Ruby. :)

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

In keeping with a point I made previously about Dennis Franz, here is a quote from an interview he gave EW magazine as NYPD Blue was winding down.

"I'll give him a lot of credit because that first year David was the hottest thing on television. Everybody wanted a piece of him. He had great film directors offering him opportunities, and he was still a young actor that understandably wanted to do feature-film work. He chose to take that big chance and left. I'm not going to criticize him for that, because we all play our game the way we play our game. Unfortunately, it didn't work and a lot of people laughed at him and said, ''Well, he made a dumb move.'' He suffered for a long time after he left the show. Now he's back on top. So God bless him, and let's move on. All is forgiven as far as I'm concerned."
- Dennis Franz​
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,1029017,00.html

----------------------

One more that I think is relevant to the current discussion. This one is by David Duchovny when he was being compared to David Caruso for leaving The X-Files. I really applauded Duchonvy's responses in this interview. (Note: This interview was conducted and published before David Caruso got the CSI Miami gig.)

Duchovny's ex files
05 JUL 2001
The X-Files star tells CLAIRE SUTHERLAND he's not nervous about leaving
television, Herald Sun

(deleted unrelated text)

Duchovny professes no nervousness at leaving The X Files for a stab at a big screen career. Neither does he have any regrets.

But a question at a press conference the day before our interview sticks in his
craw.

He was asked if he ever woke in the middle of the night scared he'd become David Caruso.

Caruso famously left the enormously successful TV drama NYPD Blue to make a string of forgettable films, thus becoming a media byword for failure.

Duchovny is still agitated the next day.

"I just feel bad for people like David Caruso, not that I think he deserves anybody's sympathy, but I just think here's a guy who makes a fairly heroic choice, which is to leave a huge success," he says.

"What people don't say is NYPD Blue is still very successful but there is no NYPD Blue without Caruso making it in the first year. Nobody is going to watch that show. He was the best actor on TV. He was phenomenal. He gave NYPD Blue its feet and the only reason it's still going is because he gave it its feet."

Comparing his career with Caruso's, or any other TV star-turned-movie star is a moot point, Duchovny says.

"These are all very personal decisions people make. Everybody's living their own lives and there's no rule, there's no formula, there's no cautionary tale, really. David Caruso is a really good actor no matter what he does and who gives a s. . . in the end whether he makes a hit movie."

It clearly interests Duchovny, as he continues unprompted.

"I think there's a certain media kind of joy when somebody falls flat on their face, or when somebody actually has the balls to stand up and say 'I think I can do more'. Because most people walk around going 'You should just be happy with your lot, you should be happy with a success'," he says.

(deleted unrelated text)
 
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Just a point from a fairly casual observer, if I may?

If it hadn't been for reading this particular thread, I wouldn't have known anything whatever about all these "rumours" that you're all talking about - so I think whoever said it up there ^^^ is right: we need to be careful about what we write in these threads.

Personally, I'm just way too cynical to give any credence to any of this sort of thing about any "celebrity", but not everyone is able to / willing to treat it like that. I'm not saying that we should dumb down, or be scared of saying anything, or stifle free speech, or anything like that, but... just exercise a little restraint and discretion, I think.

Jude
 
I quite imagine that DC has considerable influence over how the look and tone of the show will proceed in the future. If you think that's wrong, go and ask David Ogden Stiers how many lines got clipped from Maj. Winchester's character simply because Alan Alda didn't think it was a "good fit." ;)

The degree of gentility to which DC wields this power--that's another question. One to which I do not know the answer.
 
I quite imagine that DC has considerable influence over how the look and tone of the show will proceed in the future. If you think that's wrong, go and ask David Ogden Stiers how many lines got clipped from Maj. Winchester's character simply because Alan Alda didn't think it was a "good fit." ;)

The degree of gentility to which DC wields this power--that's another question. One to which I do not know the answer.


I'm sure that David has considerable input regardings decisions affecting the show and his character. I'm sure that all leads in a series are allowed to share their vision of where the show should be going.

How much his input is used is the variable in the equation and one that no one except those directly involved have the answer to.

Since Horatio's screentime, along with every other character on the show with the exception of two, has decreased markedly over the past several years, it would be hard for me to believe that David has used is "considerable" influence to make that happen.

Those two characters, however, have experienced a major increase in screentime with one of the two seeming to get every single scenario for her character that she has ever mentioned in an interview. Season 9 will probably contain the latest requests.

It isn't Caruso.

As far as MASH is concerned, if I remember correctly, Alan Alda ended up in a position as "Executive Consultant" somewhere during the middle of the show's run and as a result was gifted with a tremendous amount of power when it came to asserting his vision of the show. In fact, he pratically ran the show and it was no secret at all.

I haven't seen anything, anywhere at anytime that indicates David as the lead actor (not Executive Producer, Producer or Director) has that kind of power or authority on CSI Miami.
 
Wow! so I check in and someone has started a Why we Dislike Horatio thread. I don't know why but I have this gut feeling its a sort of retaliation against that Eric Calleigh romance thread. :confused:
 
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