Horatio/DC#14: Even heroes have the right to bleed

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And a lovely picture it is! Excellant post as well.

I agree with you that Speed's death was the start of H turning more inwards. He started to pull back from the team and seem to start to internalize a lot (stupid writers). I also had a hard time swalling the whole marriage storyline. It seemed poorly thought out and rushed to me. I mean in just a few episodes we had H married, left a widower, leaving the country, running into Ray and the family, losing Ray again and then saying goodbye once more to his sister-in-law and Ray junior. Seems to be a bit much. I guess it could explain the lack of reaction to watching Ray die. I'd be numb at that point, too if I went through all that.

Why the writers have chosen to portray him as the super hero at this point is beyond me. I rather liked it when they were letting H grow and evolve, show us some emotion, even the playful banter...it served to make the character more "real" to me. I'm not sure if they think portraying him in this way is a natural evolution for a chacter or what. I could see them having him withdraw into himself more after so many deaths as a defence mechanism against the pain of losing yet more people you care about but this is getting ridiculous.

Now don't get me wrong, I love the show and Horatio along with it. Plus DC is probably the hottest thing on Tv these days but it really bugs me to see them basically put charcter development on hold for him. At least give us some sort of an explanation even if it's just one scene where he confides in a friend or collegue about what's going on in his mind. Is that too much to ask for?
 
Cotton1463 said:
And a lovely picture it is! Excellant post as well.

I agree with you that Speed's death was the start of H turning more inwards. He started to pull back from the team and seem to start to internalize a lot (stupid writers). I also had a hard time swalling the whole marriage storyline. It seemed poorly thought out and rushed to me. I mean in just a few episodes we had H married, left a widower, leaving the country, running into Ray and the family, losing Ray again and then saying goodbye once more to his sister-in-law and Ray junior. Seems to be a bit much. I guess it could explain the lack of reaction to watching Ray die. I'd be numb at that point, too if I went through all that.

Why the writers have chosen to portray him as the super hero at this point is beyond me. I rather liked it when they were letting H grow and evolve, show us some emotion, even the playful banter...it served to make the character more "real" to me. I'm not sure if they think portraying him in this way is a natural evolution for a chacter or what. I could see them having him withdraw into himself more after so many deaths as a defence mechanism against the pain of losing yet more people you care about but this is getting ridiculous.

Now don't get me wrong, I love the show and Horatio along with it. Plus DC is probably the hottest thing on Tv these days but it really bugs me to see them basically put charcter development on hold for him. At least give us some sort of an explanation even if it's just one scene where he confides in a friend or collegue about what's going on in his mind. Is that too much to ask for?
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I agree! I thought the Horatio/Marisol storyline was good but having them get married in a short time was a bit rushed, I know Marisol was dying from cancer but still, it seemed a bit rushed to me and plus killing her off like they did when H & Marisol were only married for two days (or something like that) was sad, I really liked Marisol.

I Love Horatio to death but I Miss the old Horatio from Seasons 1 & 2, I wish they'd bring that H back.
 
Danny Caine said:
Cotton1463 said:
And a lovely picture it is! Excellant post as well.

I agree with you that Speed's death was the start of H turning more inwards. He started to pull back from the team and seem to start to internalize a lot (stupid writers). I also had a hard time swalling the whole marriage storyline. It seemed poorly thought out and rushed to me. I mean in just a few episodes we had H married, left a widower, leaving the country, running into Ray and the family, losing Ray again and then saying goodbye once more to his sister-in-law and Ray junior. Seems to be a bit much. I guess it could explain the lack of reaction to watching Ray die. I'd be numb at that point, too if I went through all that.

Why the writers have chosen to portray him as the super hero at this point is beyond me. I rather liked it when they were letting H grow and evolve, show us some emotion, even the playful banter...it served to make the character more "real" to me. I'm not sure if they think portraying him in this way is a natural evolution for a chacter or what. I could see them having him withdraw into himself more after so many deaths as a defence mechanism against the pain of losing yet more people you care about but this is getting ridiculous.

Now don't get me wrong, I love the show and Horatio along with it. Plus DC is probably the hottest thing on Tv these days but it really bugs me to see them basically put charcter development on hold for him. At least give us some sort of an explanation even if it's just one scene where he confides in a friend or collegue about what's going on in his mind. Is that too much to ask for?
Click to expand...

I agree! I thought the Horatio/Marisol storyline was good but having them get married in a short time was a bit rushed, I know Marisol was dying from cancer but still, it seemed a bit rushed to me and plus killing her off like they did when H & Marisol were only married for two days (or something like that) was sad, I really liked Marisol.

I Love Horatio to death but I Miss the old Horatio from Seasons 1 & 2, I wish they'd bring that H back.
Click to expand...

I agree with both of you on the marriage thing.The way they rushed it was what made me dislike Marisol.I thought there wasn't enough time to get to know and understand her character,besides she was Eric's sister and dying of cancer.To me it seemed that the whole team wasn't to happy about Horatio getting married to her in the first place.During the days before the marriage H was all about saving her and can someone explain to me what the whole thing was withe her wanting a baby and it was to late and him saying it's not to late? that part has me a bit confused :confused:
 
I think she meant she didn't think she'd live long enough to have a child of her own. Remember she wasn't getting treatment for her cancer at that time. Horatio disagreed and then she started the treatments. I assume the plan was for her to get well and then her and H to start a family.
 
Ah I remember now.What can I say the man is very caring. *sighs* The good old H I find I love season 1 and 2 more then the others.It's kinda showing the soft and loving side of H
 
Yup. Season 1 and 2 were the best for showing H's character development. I just watched an older episode the other night that really hammered that point home.

I'm bad when it comes to episode names but it was the show where the bomber was attaching boms to his victim's necks and Al on the bomb squad was killed. The charcter of H was really advanced in that episode, at least in my mind.

It started with the banter between H and Al talking about triple x bomb suits and jockey shorts. We see it again when he's joking with one of the ladies on the bomb squad. In both cases he was just just "one of the boys", joking around with former team mates and showing the lighter side to the character. Contrast that to the scene in the evidence room where his own team starts goofing on each other. We see H fighting to control a smile and gently steering his team back on track. In this case he's not "one of the boys" but the boss, seeing the humour but not taking part in the jokes. Kind of a ying/yang thing.

We got to see what friendship and loyalty mean to him. The first case was when KD's character walks into the house and finds H sitting there staring at the bomb scene. He gets up and trys to give a professional assessment of the scene but we can see him struggling to maintain composure. His voice is hushed, he's searching for words and hestitating. The very picture of a man in shock but trying to maintain composure.

Later outside we see him throw proffesionalism to the wind when he takes Al's wedding ring. He's reminded that it's evidence and he can't give it away but he does anyway. A man making sure his buddy's wife gets the wedding ring back.

His compassion is shown when he decides to tell Al's kids himself that their dad isn't coming home again. Even though that would have been a hard thing to do he does it to spare Al's wife the pain of doing it herself.

Friendship and loyalty are shown again when he goes to confront the bomber. He's reminded that he should wait for backup but simply says "He's killing my friends" and walks in. Now I know they have him doing the super hero to the rescue thing the last couple of seasons but in this case they at least give us an explanation as to WHY he behaved in this manner. It was personal, his friend was dead and that was that.

To me this whole episode added depth to the H character. It showed the "one of the boys", let's have a beer goofy side plus it contrasted that to the way he has to act with his own team now that he's a leader. It showed compassion to a widow and her children and it really showed how loyal he is to his friends. it didn't take anything away from the main plot of the story. Why they didn't continue to do this in later seasons is beyond me. Too much work for the writers?
 
I know that ep,it's one of my favorites.Losing Face.I have to agree with you once again.That episode showed that deep down inside Horatio is just like one of the team.When it comes down to losing his friends or in Al's case his family he struggles to keep professional and cares about nothing more then the family of his lost friend.I have to say when the bomb first goes off in the beginning of the ep you can see H already losing his cool after realizing what just happened.

I think with KD's character knew that H couldn't keep it and basically told the team not to say a word.It's a side of Horatio the writers should bring back and the team would probably like the old H back as well.Losing face has to be the milestone of the old Horatio.Another part in the ep is when he told Al's wife that he would tell her son's so she had the time to let the whole thing settle in.

I say point well proven on the ep.Cotton1463
 
You all raise some really good points. I think part of H's issue, too, is he killed his own father as a teenager, and I'm willing to bet never got any counseling for it, since it probably just wasn't allowed in his family. You can see it when Stetler forces him to get help after Speed's death. I think, too, he can't see the forest for the trees. He has friends and family who love him, but all he sees is the number of bodies, or even ghosts if you will, surrounding him. So he uses his inheritance from his parents (which apparently he has wisely invested) to try to save the world, and he strikes out as a caped crusader to avenge wrongs. Each one is to try to plug the emptiness he's never dealt with and when it doesn't work, he does it again, just like an addiction. If he pulls away from people around him, they can't get too close and hurt him again, so his final driving force is crushing fear. He really needs a good psychiatrist!
 
Speaking of H getting help.I can't remember what episode it was but it was when he was dating the attorney.I can't remember her name either.I remember Stetler telling him to talk to someone and he was talking with her about Speed's death.In it's own way she seemed to help him a bit with it and it looked like he was beginning to open up to her.Then he stopped when her and Yelina had some words between each other.
 
^ Actually in epi. 'Cop Killer' H break up with Rebecca Nevins (the attorney lady), coz in the end she make deal with killer. ;)

And re H need help ... yep I agree here. Maybe the the main problem (S 1-3) was that H can`t talk with Yelina even she to be part of his family, coz they bring to big emotional and history/past baggage... so for him was ways more easy to talk with someone who he know from a while... I like this scene between H and Rebecca in 'After the Fall'... very good done... hope soon H to try again talk with some one and at last fight his demons.

But what for me was little too much from H background is that he was kill his dad... why one man can`t be good only coz he is good ?! Why can`t he help the rest only coz this is the right thing to do ?! For me Ray Sn. problems was enough to make H character more human... no need of more drama..
 
That was Season 3's 'After The Fall'. :) Her name was Rebecca (a State Attorney), and it was perhaps easier for H to open up to her regarding Speed, as she was removed from the situation. Almost an outsider, so to speak. He stopped dating her in the S3 episode 'Cop Killer' when she made a deal with a cop killer. Morally, this totally went against Horatio's ethical beliefs/standards, especially as at this point, H still thought his brother Raymond (a cop) was killed in the line of duty, albeit in suspicious circumstances.

EDIT: Pusher & I posted at the same time! ;)
 
Whoa I was way off on the whole break up with her then.I think that if they brought someone into his life that he could open up to,maybe just maybe the old H would come back.I think your right on the whole thing about her being an outsider on Speeds death helped him open to her.I think I need to re watch after the fall and see what I was missing.I've actually been wondering if Marisol hadn't died if Horatio would have opened up to her or if he would still be all to himself about how things affect him.
 
:(
The "H opening up" scene with Rebecca was well done, I agree, and in line with his feeling more comfortable with someone removed from that trauma (Speed's death). However, it was lost on me because I never saw (still don't) any chemistry between H and Rebecca. She wasn't a good fit as a romantic partner; didn't see any improvement as H's nemesis (Chain Reaction). Christina Chang is a great actress, just doesn't seem to mesh with DC. Bad Karma, maybe? :eek: :eek:
 
Okay so now I have another question.I've seen every ep there is to see of Miami and once again I've missed something. How did H and Rebecca get together in the first place? I mean I've never really saw them talk alot or be in the same place for longer then three minutes.
 
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