Tutlebaby, I agree completely on this. It would have been out of character of he had just let things be. But I can also understand that Sara got a little upset. At least she didn't get jealous after Catherine's ramblings (maybe a little shocked), only after he went and spent the night there! They'll work it out though, they understand each other so well it's hard to imagine it will cause so much trouble between them.
I love obsessing about GSR and am very happy to have a whole bunch of you to obsess with *hugs everyone*
ETA: Where did Alyssa go? I was waiting for one of her long posts.
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
Turtle on some parts I agree with you, but for me LH never had much depth or strong presence, since "LHB' just, for me, don't care about her one way or another, she's not really a big part on CSI, and comes out of the woodwork ocassionally , to cause chaos, and I thought it was odd, that he's her 'FRIEND" after not seeing for 3 yrs. and than 1 year.. what kind of friend is that? too strange! friendship is a two way street.. when was she ever a friend to him? this was too far of a stretch for me what he did however was wonderful.. like a knight in shinning armour, and she didn't even say 'thank you' cold I don't want to kick him anywhere, cause she didn't change the dynamics of GSR, what-so-ever they're a done deal
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
I agree with you Turtle.
You know all night I was pissed at Grissom because of what he did, but I rewatched the episode because I didnt really understand what happened like who choked her and killed the guy (My mom was talking during the whole thing so I couldnt understand) and Grissom did the right thing. I think anyone would have tried to save a friend from killing themself.
I almost see how Sara could understand. He was just being a good man. But then again I could see how she could misinterpret the whole thing. I mean she got an ear full of Catherine explaining his night over with LH and who wore the chaps (which I thought was hillarious!)..how could she not be suspicious of her lover going over there.
After watching the episode a second time I enjoyed it a lot more. I think its because everytime I watch an episode for the first time all I really look for is the GSR in everything. Its a disease I swear.
WP looked very good in this episode by the way.
Finale is next week already? Sigh... what am I going to do with my life?
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
Oh and right about now I think I should be bringing out the lists to verify and crap...But I became smart!
Soooooo I now have the lists up at my LJ and I even wrote a breif history to go with each list(yah I have to much time on my hands)But it took me a while so
PLEASE READ!
Join the club...*sighs*
AND nominated for an emmy mofos!
Oh, the episode.
I don't like GSR angst. I don't like unresolved GSR. BUT (big booty) I guess it was good . They got into Lady Heather's character, and that was good. Suicide is really a big deal, and so I felt sorry for her. I would feel sorry for anyone without something to live for.
But did I want to? No.
What I did like with the Grissom/LH interaction: it got resolved. Supposedly, the ending of the episode was written with Lady Heather still in the dumps . I liked what Grissom did for her. It was nice.
I guess are puddle of GSR that Mystery was rambling about got dumped for a Grissom and Heather ending. I wish both had been shown, but they weren't.
So lets assume something great happened and we didn't see it. Like Gum Drops.
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
ok lets try this again! i just wrote this novel and when i went to post it said the form is no longer valid..BUGGAR! now i actually have to remember what i wanted to say.. ok here we go!
ok if i could describe the episode in one word? boring? yeah that might fit. then again, i liked parts of it. first off, the whole diabetic thing? unrealistic. i remember watching the scene, then at commercial i went out to the kitchen. i looked at my mom and we both said "yeah, cause it happens THAT fast.." i understand the need for drama, i can get passed that, fine. i grabbed my soda and started back to my room and looked at mom again. "wasn't LH drinking shots? and alcohol?" mom looked at me and said matter-of-factly "yeah..........she was." alcohol increases blood sugar levels very high, LH's little episode was a low blood sugar. bad TPTB...BAD!!! i know i should let it go, but they're usually so good on the details! maybe im just a perfectionist, esspecially when i've dealt with countless hypoglycemic encounters with my mom over the past 18 years. ok ill move on but im not gunna like it lol! i'll have to watch the episode again, move past the bleh-ness of that scene.
i don't think sara was jealous at all. she noticed how tense and sad he was and in the layout room she tried to joke with him a little but he didnt take to it. i agree i dont like LH all that much, but i did feel kinda sad for her. depression and suicidal tendencies are things not to be looked lightly upon. in the layout room grissom could have tried to explain himself, but as far as we know only brass is (?possibly?) aware of GSR and others could have overheard and wondered why sara got the full story and no one else did. sara will be there when he gets home, he can take his time and explain everything, he can finally find words to fill the gaps, but if he waits, LH won't be there, and her death will be on his conscience. he was being a good "friend." sara will understand, she has to, she loves him.
and that dead guy? i wanted to kill him again. I love brass!!! wouldve been great to see cath's reaction though!
i too thought for a second that it would be sara at the end but a split second later i thought "oh yeah...that granddaughter girl who handed her sippy cup to grissom at the park. yeah she'd fit the story better. damn."
there was more but i've had a long day and forgot..ill watch the ep again and come back ::sniff:: i love you guys! i tried to explain the LH thing to a co-worker today and she tried SOOOOO hard to follow along. she kept reiterating.. 'ok so grissom and sara are..together? like they're dating?' im so happy you guys understand
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
I agree with everyone's assessment of Grissom. He was in a tough spot - he knew that if he supported one woman that he used to care deeply about, he might upset the other. Even still, he was willing to put himself out there to do the right thing.
LH has some serious issues. She needs someone from her past to remind her of the woman she used to be -that's Grissom. As far as we know, he was the only person she connected with in the last umpteen years. She needed support, he knew it, and so he provided it.
The problem comes in when you think about his inability to express himself to Sara - if he could simply say that he cares about/loves her, she may be more able to understand where he is coming from as a friend to LH. As it stands, however, he can't bring himself to verbally express his feelings for Sara, and she is left in doubt about what he is truly feeling.
Of course he should have helped LH. I would have thought less of his character if he hadn't. Unfortunately, he couldn't explain his motivations to his girlfriend. If my boyfriend spent the night at his "ex's" house I would be furious. I walked away from this episode thinking either Sara 1.) is a saint, or 2.) she understands his motivation, but is upset that he can't talk to her/explain it.
I think Sara knows Grissom, but there is a part of her that is insecure about the extent of his feelings. I mean, how long can you deal with "knowing" your man loves you but that he can't tell you so? She must be doubtful. She wants to support/love/be there for him, but he won't let her.
Guilty Pleasure: I loved that Grissom told Heather he was a "friend." I know he loves Sara - I wish he would just tell her already.
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
Ohmygod, a new thread already?!
We own, yes, it's true.
That was pretty sad, pity I said anything, really.
Sssoo, obviously, you losers have already talked this thing to death, but I'm going to continue, because...I like coconuts...
My buddy, Kaitie (who does, actually, live in Vegas) and I were just on the phone talking about this episode, and Sara's reaction to the entire thing.
JF was spot on once again, breathing even more life into Sara. What I liked was that Sara wasn't really all that jealous, at least, not in front of Grissom. There was a shot of it, but it seemed to me that she might have understood what he was doing.
I loved her reaction to learning about Heather, though. Especially Catherine, whom I had actually expected to be one of those who caught onto them first. Unless she did, and was just screwing with the poor woman's head.
I loved how Grissom attempted to explain himself to Sara, though. I thought that was rather sweet of him to do, however, you can still understand why Sara behaved the way that she did.
And at the end of the episode, with Heather's granddaughter, as much as I adore Heather and wanted her to be happy, how much did I want it to be Sara that he introduced? A hella lot. I almost cried. But it was a nice thing for him to do.
Brass is now my new secret love-ah.
You know it's true.
I almost wanted to kill that dead dude, too, until I realized how redundant that would have been.
Thinking about it, I really love the idea of going into Living Doll with a great ball of angst!twine. The entire season, with the exception of Grissom's Sabbatical and a few other random moments, have been obscenely happy. And now, to close everything off for the summer, to give angst and guilty Grissom up is amazing. Especially if Sara were to live, imagine the party we'll get in September...ddaammnn...
No, I take it back.
Hannibal Lecter is my boyfriend, so there.
Hannibal Rising, Lecter, of course, so I can fit in nicely between his Aunt and Clarice. ^-^
Whom, I'm assuming he married in the book...
Creepy nutter.
ETA -
You know what I just, seriously, just remembered?
I have a 1984 Ford Mustang.
Color?
Red.
That's pretty sad, man.
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
I've sat on this a while, just reading posts and observing the reaction to the LH episode... and I just realized I was terribly apathetic towards the ep, and am now almost moreso towards the finale, and that's not good. This has been a phenomenal season of a great show with some awesome GSR, but I hate that they look like they're going with the "Oh, we had so much unresolved!" angle for GSR in the finale. It burns me to no end that they have to amp up the drama using that cliche device. I'm a bit angry, and I'll admit it. I've sat on this LH episode a few days, now, and while I'm apathetic about the episode itself, I'm pissed at what it sets us up for, and it makes me unable to relate to Grissom when Sara goes missing. I can't help but think "You screwed this up, buddy. She's dying in the desert and you're just an idiot because you didn't consider her feelings when it mattered." I love Grissom. He's my second-favourite character, and it's not about what he did for LH... I actually liked MOST of what he did for her, even found the end scene touching. So, for me, it's what he didn't do for Sara that has me peeved... Because she's going to go missing and die, and if the two of them are still on rocky ground, I'm just going to throw things at him. My television might have a bowling ball in it come next Friday morning.
I can't really comment on the last episode. I sorta touched on it above, but I'll say it again: I'm not upset at what Gil did for LH for the most part. I'm angry for what he didn't do for his girlfriend. She needed him to be straight with her, and she showed so much class and grace as she just dealt with all the crap he threw her way...
And I understand some men have trouble expressing themselves, but Grissom needs to get past that in a major way, because, when he said her name in the examination room, she really wanted to give him a chance. She wanted him to say something that would put her fears to rest, but the words weren't there, and she assumed he didn't have them. She said it was fine, but she was aching inside, and he just let her walk out and went on with his day. Sure, we might've missed something, but this is a heck of a time for TPTB to force us to use our imaginations to fill in the blanks.
I want to break this episode down in an intelligent manner, but it's just not coming right now. Part of that could be what time it is, but the other part is that I'm just annoyed. I'm saddened that this episode turned out the way it did.
Like I said last week, I had come up with some ideas on how this could actually work. That's not to say I'm better at developing plotlines than TPTB. I mean, I don't have a hit show under my belt, but what played out on screen just wasn't as strong as it could have been, and the way things were left was a bit disappointing.
I had this whole positive twist in my head... with Heather and Sara really connecting, and Grissom being an idiot, but it working out. I didn't even really have a big GSR scene or anything in my head... I just had this idea that two intelligent women could connect and help one another, and that would be a joy to watch.
Sara held her head up high and tried her best. When Catherine was describing Lady Heather to her, it was so strange and almost out of place. She asked what the woman was like, and comes to find out her man may have spent the night with this woman... And that could have particularly scary implications for Sara. Sure, LH was a dominatrix, one who inflicted pain, but Sara doesn't see pain as pleasure. We assume Sara was physically abused in some way based on her talk of hospital visits, etc, as a child. She doesn't see pain as pleasurable, but if he does, how does that work?
Sure, that's a more minor aspect of the conversation, but it's there. There's this feeling in the air, and Catherine is oblivious, content to rattle on seemingly innocently. But, Sara's taking it to heart. She's heard the rumors around the lab, and to hear that Catherine could see the chemistry? Ouch.
Then, she jokes with Grissom about the lipstick being LH's shade. He cocks his eyebrow like he did back in "Fannysmackin'" when she asked if he was volunteering for her to pick on him... And, for a moment, it almost feels like they have their rhythm back, but Sara watches as he gets more and more lost in thought over this woman he's seen only a few times across a long period of time. And, Sara's breaking bit by bit, but sucking it up. She watches his face, and the life that so briefly filled it as she pursed her lips is gone...
Then, there's the scene in the examination room. Rumors are flying again about LH and Grissom. Personally, I don't think Sara suspected he slept with Heather, but there are the personal implications and the lengths to which he's going to help this ex-dominatrix... One could argue that Grissom treasures Sara so much that he doesn't want their relationship exposed to the world so Sara won't suffer at the mercy of the rumor mill the way he does, but at this point, that's a stretch, even for me.
Her voice when she tells him they have a suspect is soft, and sad. She's trying to keep it together and professional. She tells him what he needs to know, then focuses back on her work. I imagine this is how the scene would have gone back in LLV if they had been in this room. Sara needs to do something so she doesn't have to look at him, because she's breaking.
Yes, in LLV he wasn't leaving HER. He was taking a sabatical to cool off and chill out and gather his thoughts and his emotions... But she was breaking.
Here, he's leaving her again, at least in terms of emotion from her perspective. She perceives that he has pulled away from her, so she's pulling away, too. He comes to her with justifications and rationalizations. I've heard such things myself, and I know it's not unusual for a man to want to present a woman with a list of reasons why she shouldn't feel the way she feels, but lists do not repair feelings. Lists do not let a woman know that she is special and valued.
She tells him she gets it, and you almost believe it, but there's an extra beat where she struggles to stop looking at him. There's anger and pain brimming under the surface, and you almost get to see it as she turns back to the pictures on the table.
He says her name to get her attention. It's a step bigger than LLV, where he just sorta stood there, but she's already having trouble keeping the pain swallowed. It's rising like bile in her throat, and she wants to just make it through, to go on auto... And she says, "Yeah." She's begging for him to say something. She's hoping he has an answer, but he doesn't, and he just lets her go. Arguably, he couldn't cause a big scene at work without exposing them, but this time, she walks right out.
In some ways, it feels like she pulled away more from him here than she did in LLV... I imagine if this had happened before LLV, the reatctions would be reversed, but it's just the pileup of the unbelievable, the chipping away of her confidence.
Just last week she read the letter he never mailed. The week before he KINDA admitted to loving her. We knew what it was, but she's not sure anymore. He DID take off for a month without warning her... he could take off again... and that's scary. And it's petrifying, and it's paralyzing.
What she needs right now is some assurance that he loves her and that he's going to be there for her, that he's going to feel what she feels, that he's going to take care of her.
When he first came back from the sabatical, he seemed so sure. His directness shocked her. He was talking about the cocoon in public. He was practically stalking her down the hallway as he looked her over despite the fact that she smelled like garbage. There was this spark in him... this directness and certainty, but it doesn't seem as strong. That's not to say that it isn't... only that it's harder to find.
Sara's been through the ringer with this man. She's tried her best on so many levels to be there for him, and I just think he dropped the ball this week. No, I'm not condeming his choice to help Heather. I'm pissed at how he treated his girlfriend in the wake of that, though.
I probably make no sense this late at night, but I had to get that off my chest. *sigh*
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
I was kind of dissapointed with this episode. I'm new to the show, but not new to TV, and it was rather boring. I was expecting so much more between Sara and Grissom, I mean you could tell she was affected by it, but nothing really happened between them, which is what I really wanted to see. I think it's cool Brass knows... now we just have to figure out HOW he knows... lol.
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
Wow Alyssa!
I always love your posts and reading them!
ITA, with everything you said!
My dad and I were actually discussing this, KINDA.
He was like "He's helping a friend! Give the man a break!"
And I was like "Dad...I'm not condemning him for that. Yes, he did a good thing by helping his friend. BUT he should of explained it better to his GIRLFRIEND whom he LOVES and should RESPECT."
I don't think I'd be so mad, if the circumstances were different. Seeing her under that car and thinking that she is unloved? Yeah...THAT makes me want to cry and puke at the same time. I just hope he doesn't realize all this because he's guilty. Seriously. That would COMPLETELY ruin the show for me. And if that's the LAST scene they EVER have I have lost all respect for TPTB. SERIOIUSLY.
Men...they all think the same. One. Track. Minds.
I watched the episode again and I tried to get a better grasp on it.
I don't like Heather...I never did. But I did feel bad for her....a little.
Really...the only person I felt bad for was Sara. I wanted to give her a hug and say "It's okay sweetie. We love you. Don't mind the fact that your boyfriend is being an asshat jerkface. Let's go get some ice cream." :lolBecause ice cream always helps by situations. I've learned this from experience.)
I'm not denying Grissom at all. What he did was right and he was being a good friend...but he was being a BAD BOYFRIEND. And he stinks bad for that.
stoopid poo poo face.
And Brass? Totally is my best friend. He knows. I kept thinking "Oh! Yes! Reveal it buddy! Tell us...! Stupid stupid dead guy! Couldn't you of waited to die! Let the man speak his peace! :lol:
But, seriously, I could talk about this until I'm blue in the face...but I'm not.
ETA:
Okay...so last night I was watching FEAR and you know what I noticed? Steven(Billy) drove a RED older MUSTANG. . Irony is a bitch ain't it?
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
TGTBTD gets my vote for the WORST episode ever. I hated it so much i was like mad after the episode. It's like they can do way better than bringing an old character back to "cause tension" between Grissom and Sara.
If Sara gets tasered and knapped before her and Grissom make up, its going to be the worst storyline ever. There should be a make up scene so then it isn't as soapy. And i definatly think Jorja will be back next season.
Oh and Grissom isn't that big of and ass. I could have slapped the smirk of his face when Catherine was yelling at him--loved herrrrr.
And i think Brass has a hunch about GSR cuz he has most likely noticed those things
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
I had to re-watch this episode immediately (hardship I know) to get the subtles - and I came to a different conclusion than the first time.
I realised Cath was being insensitive (surprise surprise) she will have known Sara's interest in Grissom if nothing else! but Sara was being very insecure. I think Grissom realised very early that Heather's actions were suicidal and therefore was thinking about finding out what was going on and helping her. Heck it was a matter of life and death. He does not have to be in love with Heather to be upset and worried about that.
I just hope the characters talked it through. Boy has Sara got a good 'un there! He did the one thing needed to save Heather. I would have been so proud of him.
Sara has seen the letter too now and ought to know how he feels. And one thing is for sure Grissom has integrity.
Many will think this bizare but I thought Grissom was showing a lot of emotion in this - more than he would have probably prior to GSR.
I think that the Grissom and Sara charachters if they ever did get together would be a match for life - a good match. If they have been living together for years then it is more into the marrige than a fling. Regardless of being actually legally married.
If the relationship *is* right and is *love* then you do know that person and *trust* them. Sara should. Grissom's actions were those of a caring friend. And a hero too come on lets face it! At the end he was patching things up for her, expecting nothing in return. Compare Grissom's actions to Brass' attitude....
I think allot of the comments on the websites about Grissom ought not to have gone to LH are more a reflection on the writer's experiences of doomed relationships.
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
this episode was okay for me......The first time I watched it I was VERY angry at grissom, but the second time, not as bad.
What he did was out of friendship...nothing more. I think that Sara got that, but she couldn't shake the feeling of the sabbatical, like he is going to leave her again.
The hospital scene with LH and Sara was really good. I'm glad sara didn't show her jealousy*if any*, and I think I would've been dissapointed in her character if she did...kind-of OOC for me. I sort-of like LH, before i was a GSR shipper, partially because we have the same name*not lady, heather* and I felt bad for her...
I think they set up for the season finale ok, a little angst-y, but maybe that will play well for TPTB... I dunno.
But as a precerser(sp?) to the season finale... not the greatest. There were some funny parts, and i can't believe that..
BRASS KNOWS!!!
also my new best friend
we all can share him
You hit the nail on the head right there. Having been in situations with people suffering from depression/suicidal tendencies, I understand how badly Heather needed help. And Grissom rightly guessed that she couldn't (or wouldn't) turn to her ex-husband, or anyone else she knew, for that help. When I first watched the episode, I thought slapping was a little too good for him, but now that I've cooled down a bit and read some of the posts on this thread, I think I understand that Grissom was doing what he honestly felt was the right thing, and that he was, in fact, being a wonderful and loyal friend to Heather. It's also consistent with his character, IMO: he seems to be the type of person who doesn't make many friends, but once he's your friend, he'll go to heaven and earth for you, so to speak.
However, as SaraSidleRules8 said, while being a good friend to Heather, he was also being a lousy boyfriend to Sara, and therein lies the problem. Grissom suffers from one of the worst cases of relationship myopia I've ever seen; he's been alone for so long that he doesn't stop to realize the effects some of his decisions (e.g., the sabbatical) have on Sara, who should be THE most important person in his life. And to him, she is...but he forgets that she can't read his mind. She needs to KNOW that by hearing it from him and by seeing it in his actions. She needs to come first with him. I'm not saying this should have precluded him from helping Heather, just that he owed Sara a heck of a lot better explanation than "She's very strong and tough as nails" or "I'm the only one Heather trusts." He owed it to Sara to at least give her his reasons for going to Heather's house; Sara being Sara, and also a very loyal type of person herself, I think she would have understood that and not been so upset with him. Instead, think about it from her point of view: She's stuck investigating the case of a person who may or may not have been Grissom's girlfriend, and who still has an obviously strong emotional connection to him -- a woman who, according to Catherine, is basically everything Sara is and more. What kind of woman wouldn't feel a little insecure in that case? Nevertheless, she behaves with complete professionalism, and even kindness, toward the woman, and works extra hard on the case because she can see how important it is to Grissom -- only to have him basically ignore her and stare slack-jawed at Heather, then spend the night at Heather's house, no matter how innocently! Finally, when she gives him a chance to explain and shows she's willing to listen, he can't even answer her. More important, he struggles to express his love for her when they've been together over a year, and yet he drops everything at a moment's notice for a woman he's seen four times (that we know of) during the past five and a half years. Sure, he doesn't mean to hurt her feelings, and she knows how much trouble he can cause by not expressing his, but this is incredibly dense, bone-headed, and hurtful even for him. My mom, who has been married for almost 27 years, says that your relationship with the person you love should be absolutely the most important human relationship in your life, and in order for it to work, you have to treat it as such -- and I agree with her. In this episode, Grissom IMO spectacularly failed to do that. Does this mean I think they're doomed? No. Was it Grissom's fault that Catherine went on and on and on about Heather to Sara's face and made her feel upset to begin with? No. Should Grissom have decided not to help Heather at all? No. He just should have been able to look beyond his own nearsightedness long enough to consider how Sara felt before he did what he did, and he definitely should have been able to do more than just stare at her a la "Snakes" when she got justifiably upset. He seriously needs to get over himself sometimes, and if it takes Catherine slapping him to do it, then so be it! (Seriously, that was my favorite scene by far...she is the only person on the PLANET who would say that to him!)
OK, since I think I just broke my own record for paragraph length, I'm done for now. Later.
Re: Grissom & Sara #28: To heart's and eyes' delight
I didn't think Grissom was being insensitive to Sara. I get why people are upset by it, I'd be a bit peeved if my boyfriend stayed the night at some ex-"girlfiend" dominatrix's house.. But, honestly if he is the only person she trusts, and he can prevent her from offing herself- then I think all the best to him. I don't think I could ever live with myself if my friend commited suicide, and I didn't help because I was afraid of what my boyfriend/girlfriend would think or say.
The only thing that buggers me (Okay a few things) is that even though Sara did read the letter in LL- he never sent it to her.. She found it, and we don't know if he knows she did. She could ultimately be thinking "What the hell, he poured his heart out to me, and I didn't even know. I found the letter that was never sent, was he ever going to give it to me? Now he's spending the night with Lady Heather.."
I'm glad they did the continuity of the letter, but what was the point when they turn around and give us mixed messages in the next episode?
Then, better yet- they don't give us conclusion so we know we are going into the season finale with a "What's going on with Grissom and Sara" state of mind. Will they be okay, will something happen, will Grissom regret doing what he did, did Grissom sleep with her- or was it really just a social call, did Sara "forgive" him, what's the finale going to bring, is it going to light up the relationship, or is it going to darken it, will it be the end of GSR?
I always tell myself to hold my judgement of an episode until I see it, and that's what I did for TGTBTD- and I am pleased with the result. I think Sara was in the right place being a bit peeved at Grissom, but keeping her cool- and hopefully understanding.
what he did however was wonderful.. like a knight in shinning armour, and she didn't even say 'thank you' cold 
