Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding Love

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Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

in Snakes, he already has the sara-feels-for-me information processed in his mind. he is still very sheepish and all but this time he can actually say something. and it looked like he almost asked her out. but Sara by confronting him again didn't want to make him decide in that particular moment, so quickly. she remembered too good how it ended in PWF. so she came, told him AGAIN what she wants, and left the ball on his court. she knew that if they made a first step there is pretty much no way back for Grissom, therefore his decision had to be really thoughtful.
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i totally understand what youre saying there, but i still think he would never have been able to finish that sentence, he was hesitating, and he tried twice to speak, but he fell flat both times, he found it hard, and thats where i agree with the second part of what you said-id never thought of it like that, but id agree on reflection that, because this wasnt the first time she'd put herself on the line in front of him and said, hey i think theres something between us...that while he knew she had a thing for him, he never probably realised to what extent, and that probably held him back....so when she told him straight, i think he was taken aback, hence why he tried to change subjects. BUT i think youre right...after she'd said what she had to say, and she looked up at him, she realised straight away he was unsure how to answer and so she cut him off. and i think youre right that she did that because, she realised, he wasnt ready to step up to the plate yet (hence her nesting dolls gesture towards him about picking men that are emotionally unavailable.), and since this wasnt the first time, so i think, she did cut him off cause she didnt want him to say anything because he'd been put on the spot and felt forced into it, she wanted him to be sure in his own time, and come to her, and when she told him that time, i think she was letting him know, im here when youre ready, but then she realised he wasnt.
if he was going to ask her out to dinner, he would have, he was stuttering though, it wasnt something he was comfortable or sorted about that time, so i think while they said in the commentry, ask you out to dinner maybe, that was the guy just listing a posibility. i think she was probably right to cut him off when i think about why she probably did.

in result Sara felt less awkward, less dependible on him and just better. in that moment she was crying mainly after what happened to her family. he seemed to understand it was not a moment for a big transition in their relationship.
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i agree with this about nesting dolls. that makes sense.


naaah, i don't think so. when he was saying this, he was still in the work mode, and he have just discovered semen in the plane's lavatory, which is pretty surprising. so to somehow show that he in fact knows something about everything he made this comment.
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i totally agree. this is exactly how i took the scene. that he was in work mode still, like when he said it, it didnt seem like it was to start some flirty banter....sara had just said 'ahhhh the mile high club..' and so he listed some fact that he knows about it. thats the grissom way, hes always doing that, citing useful bits of info and stuff about things on case. thats why when sara was like 'well its good, i dont know if its that good...' comment caught him off gaurd and he looked at her like wtf. he was shocked. then when she looked at him, she realised why and then was curious about where he'd heard it. i really think it was sara who initiated the flirting there. but Grissom ended up responding nearer the end of the scene. *sigh* i love that scene so much!

i just got an idea. what if Grissom was practicing flirting with Sofia? lol. cuz we didn't see him dating since LH, so maybe he just wanted to try it all out on someone else and see if women still like him. maybe he tried to give himself more confidence by doing that.
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Grissom asking Sophia out to dinner in unbearable REALLY RUBBED ME UP THE WRONG WAY.

i watched it last night, and im still not happy. afterall this is the ep, straight after nesting dolls, and two eps after saras told grissom how she feels about him. and hes asking someone out to dinner? ugh. i almost felt betrayed myself for sara.

and its always very obvious she has a thing for him, so that makes it worse. and he knows it. anyways the way he was like 'lets go to dinner'. i was trying to work out why the hell he would say that and i came to a few conclusions

1) she was hinting at quiting because of her demotion (was she? maybe i misunderstood). he asked her out to dinner to try and talk her out of it, speak to her about it, listen to her, be there as a friend....

em, but you know what kinda makes me feel a bit better?

that of all the ladys he had crushes on over the seasons, Sara was the only one he ever held back from.

he made it very obvious to lady heather, he asked the bones lady out....then we have him asking sophia out, and then other female csis who hes more friends with, like catherine, who he went to the cinema with, and etc etc etc.

Saras the only one he hasnt had dinner with outside of work, and not only that, the only one he refused to have dinner outside of work with. but he wasnt as reserved with others he had a thing for or worked with.

this leads me to conclude, with sara, he held out because he felt she was special, and that she was different, he knew there was something there, she was someone he wanted to spend his life with, and if he couldnt have that, he didnt want anything, it was all or nothing with sara.


and afterall he choose sara in the end so i shouldnt feel let down by him in unbearable, but still....
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

I agree with you about Sara. I also think he feels she's to special to just have a little fling with. I think he feels as if he's going after Sara he wants to be able to have a real relationship with her for the rest of his life while with the others he can flirt and have some fun.
I also think he's a little scared by the fact that Sara really can come into his heart like no one of the others are able to do.
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

Theatresporter, thank you so much for the commentary! Oh George, you're a huge GSR shipper, aren't you?

I just watched A Bullet Runs Through It Pt. 1 & 2...besides being excessively creeped out by Nick's moustache, they were such great episodes (not gonna lie, I teared up at the end when Brass hugs Bell's wife).

Judging by Sara & Grissom's interactions in these episodes, they may have possibly been together/testing the waters at this point. For example, Sara's obvious jealousy when she catches Sophia in Grissom's office, Grissom's guilty look and lack of a comeback to Sara after Sophia leaves (as opposed to him being angry or disapproving of Sara's tone).

Furthemore, in previous seasons, when Grissom needed Sara for something it was always, "Sara, you're with me" and Sara just followed along. In this episode when Grissom asks for her, Sara's snarky/almost flirty response about her top priority according to the undersherrif seems to imply that they're more comfortable with eachother (it's less of a "Yes, boss" relationship at this point). And Grissom almost seems to be flirting back with her with his "This is for me...it'll be fun" line. I was hoping WP would throw a wink in there or something, but...alas...no such luck. I can pretend he did, haha.
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

also he was having dinner with sophia and he worked with her, and would go to the cinema with catherine, etc etc. so the fact he worked with her didnt have to stop him. i think he didnt for many reasons, i think if the teacher/student type relationship was a big reason why he felt conflicted (and i think it was), like sarah noted earlier, in butterflied he was talking as if getting with sara would alter his entire life.
that wasnt the same with any others. He didn’t see it as a big deal, but with sara, he did..
he pushed sara away maybe out of fear, because he wasnt sure the extent to which she felt for him, because he felt it was maybe wrong since he was her boss, and because he was scared of putting himself out there and eventually getting hurt. he just wasnt ready for a long time.

with the others, it was easy, with sara, he felt like it was a life changing decision, he took the idea of being with her so seriously, and he had felt like that for years, and did nothing, didnt even have dinner with her. with others he jumped head first, so i think its safe to say, his feelings for her, were very strong, and if he was gonna do it, he was gonna do it right, and he didnt just wanna date her cause he was attracted to her, like with Lady Heather and Sophia etc, he had feelings for sara, and that made it all the more complicated for him. but eventually he went with his heart and not his head, so its all good!

Furthemore, in previous seasons, when Grissom needed Sara for something it was always, "Sara, you're with me" and Sara just followed along. In this episode when Grissom asks for her, Sara's snarky/almost flirty response about her top priority according to the undersherrif seems to imply that they're more comfortable with eachother (it's less of a "Yes, boss" relationship at this point). And Grissom almost seems to be flirting back with her with his "This is for me...it'll be fun" line. I was hoping WP would throw a wink in there or something, but...alas...no such luck. I can pretend he did, haha.
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yeah, Saras never been afraid to tell grissom when she doesnt agree, or when she thinks hes wrong. she did it in after the show, twice, and she did it in that ep at the beginning. i think, as ive said before, if they'd been alone and she'd said that to him, he'd have acted differently, but she didnt, she said it in front of the whole team, so he couldnt not put her in her place. it was verging on disrespectful since it was her boss, but i dont think that was intentional on saras part. i think she just says what she thinks, and whereas with certian other csi's shes fine about being in their face/insulting or being disrespectful, with grissom she really never is and when she is, it isnt intentional. she says what she feels, but since she respects him, it shows when shes talking to him, so i think he realises that.

as for the office scene, as already mentioned before, i think she did that because it was grissom there with her, if it had been anyone else she wouldnt have. sara was obviously jealous there, but controlled, and grissom knew it, so he probably felt uncomfortable cause hes the boss, and she shouldnt be there, and in comes the girl hes attracted to, and shes having a go at her. that had to be uncomfortable for him, because just like i dont think sara would have reacted like that if sophia had been in anyone else' office, i think grissom would have reacted differently if it was anyone but sara that had came in. he'd have probably been a whole lot more boss like.
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

yeah in snakes i agree, he would have never been able to finish the sentence he started, he started responding cause it was his turn and cue and she had finished, but you could tell, he just didnt have a clue what to say, he was so shell shocked. he tried to say something, like twice, but was totally lost for words. and sara looked and you saw and realised he couldnt and she jumped straight in and said it was ok. so i agree, he was never gonna ask her out to dinner right then, i just cant believe he would have.
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Because I think Snakes outlines the real difference between Sara and Grissom. Someone, probably Grissly said once that Snakes was Sara's Butterflied speech. It was her getting to explain every action from the last 5 years and put it right out on the table.

The difference being that Sara is willing to suck up her pride and say it in front of Grissom, without any real prompt. I mean, she comes in there to tell him about Ecklie, not because she saw Grissom's dead twin brother Gus on an autopsy table and began pondering her love for him.

And I'm not mocking the Butterflied speech. You could tell it was extremely painful for him, but he never would have knowingly let Sara hear it. I think that suffering silently is the way he prefers to do things.

Sara lets herself bleed out in public, not intentionally, but it happens.

So for her, like later in Nesting Dolls when she points at him when talking about her attraction in men, she's not allowing him to interpret it any other way.

She does let him back out, she lets him have his space, but she wants him to know.

Grissom is the opposite. He doesn't want her to know, and even when he's acting as if he doesn't care, he wants to be near her.

After Butterflied you see him distancing himself, but it may be that feeling that he's gotten too close (Invisible Evidence)

In any event, while it would be best for the ship, I do believe that Grissom was the one to initiate the relationship only because Sara's made it too obvious for her to be the one to then say, "Let's go out". She was at the stage where she was letting him know she was still interested, but that was it. She was backing off, and he needed to step forward.

Sara wasn't willing to run the marathon so he could step out the front door anymore.

So in that sense, it had to be Grissom.

i dont think anything happened between them in nesting dolls though. she was emotional and vulnerable, he'd have been a major douchebag to make a move then. that isnt who he is.
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Agreed. And then to ask out another woman the following week... it would be a deal breaker, honestly. The timeline is a deal breaker for me. If they try to say that he made a move at a time when it would've made him look like a dick... I think I would have a hard time supporting the ship.

Basically anything after Unbearable, I'm fine with.

i just got an idea. what if Grissom was practicing flirting with Sofia? lol. cuz we didn't see him dating since LH, so maybe he just wanted to try it all out on someone else and see if women still like him. maybe he tried to give himself more confidence by doing that.
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Nah - she genuinely liked him, and I think he was interested. Maybe not as much as with Sara or Heather, but in a Teri Miller way. She was smart, she was forward, and she peaked his interest. Clearly not enough for a second date, but still. Also, him asking out Sofia proved that he learned his lesson from Burden of Proof - if someone's threatening to quit from your shift, chances are they're asking YOU to talk to them about it.

naaah, i don't think so. when he was saying this, he was still in the work mode, and he have just discovered semen in the plane's lavatory, which is pretty surprising. so to somehow show that he in fact knows something about everything he made this comment. and if you remember Turn Off the Screws he says something very similar to Sara (and Greg) about riding roller coasters.
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True, but I think it was more the manner in which it was done, and the fact that they'd flirted so much previously.

I thought they were setting up Liev to take over for Grissom, and maybe they are, but they also seem to be making him the anti-Grissom. Young and very career-motivated, wanting to move up the ranks. He's exactly the kind of Young Ecklie personality that would be good as an opposing shift leader, but I don't see him as the head of the shift. With Ecklie and Hodges AND this guy? It would seem a little bit too black hat for me. And also like when they tried to replace Nellie Olson on Little House with the new adopted daughter. There is but one Ecklie. And he rocks mightily.

i totally understand what youre saying there, but i still think he would never have been able to finish that sentence, he was hesitating, and he tried twice to speak, but he fell flat both times, he found it hard
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I think the people in the commentary were having fun with the ideas of things he might have said, but ultimately, Sara knew he wasn't going to be able to think of something he wouldn't later regret.

I do agree with Sara_Grissom_Fan on a point she brought up - I think Grissom was treating Sofia in UnBearable the way that Catherine was treating the killer in After the Show - using attraction to get what they need for the job.

Regardless of whether Grissom had feelings... he definitely made it look like a date and his tone said that as well. Yet we have no indication of a follow-up and it was clear that Sofia was mad at Sara when she seemed to guess that Grissom had moved on. She (Sofia) was pretty forward in Bodies in Motion, letting Grissom know that she missed him, but nothing came of it, and then on top of that, Grissom didn't help her out in ABRTI 2.

Sofia may, in fact, have been the first to sumise the relationship.
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

Because I think Snakes outlines the real difference between Sara and Grissom. Someone, probably Grissly said once that Snakes was Sara's Butterflied speech. It was her getting to explain every action from the last 5 years and put it right out on the table.

The difference being that Sara is willing to suck up her pride and say it in front of Grissom, without any real prompt. I mean, she comes in there to tell him about Ecklie, not because she saw Grissom's dead twin brother Gus on an autopsy table and began pondering her love for him.

And I'm not mocking the Butterflied speech. You could tell it was extremely painful for him, but he never would have knowingly let Sara hear it. I think that suffering silently is the way he prefers to do things.

Sara lets herself bleed out in public, not intentionally, but it happens.

So for her, like later in Nesting Dolls when she points at him when talking about her attraction in men, she's not allowing him to interpret it any other way.

She does let him back out, she lets him have his space, but she wants him to know.

Grissom is the opposite. He doesn't want her to know, and even when he's acting as if he doesn't care, he wants to be near her.

After Butterflied you see him distancing himself, but it may be that feeling that he's gotten too close (Invisible Evidence)

In any event, while it would be best for the ship, I do believe that Grissom was the one to initiate the relationship
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i agree, thats all very interesting, and true. she was always the one putting herself on the line in front of him, and he didnt. so it had to be him, in the end....

and even when he did let stuff slip (like the since i met you line, which was ad-libbed i know but still!), he would pretend it had never happened, acted like he hadnt said it, and so Sara in turn really couldnt use what he'd said as a prompt to delve deeper cause he kinda cut her off by acting like he hadnt said it.

same with the 'are you worried'...'no im just concerned'....'isnt that the same thing?' convo. he always found it hard been open with her. IE, Snakes, Nesting dolls. the promotion mess, etc.

and she was the only women that had that effect on him.


Agreed. And then to ask out another woman the following week... it would be a deal breaker, honestly.
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sarahvma-why do you think he did that? i am still pretty mad about it, after watching it last night. like i said, for him to ask someone out, two eps after she'd told him how she felt about him, and one ep after she'd bared her soul to him....it leaves a nasty taste in my mouth that he asked sophia to dinner.

i really am left with no choice to hope it wasnt a romantic gesture, and that he used it as one, to spend time with her to convince her not to quit. otherwise he looks like a major ass in my eyes.

I do agree with Sara_Grissom_Fan on a point she brought up - I think Grissom was treating Sofia in UnBearable the way that Catherine was treating the killer in After the Show - using attraction to get what they need for the job.
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i made the point? but i havent a clue what youre saying....can you explain? you meaning, he used the attraction with sophia to get her to stick with the job?
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

hi guys, back again, after a few days of very boring school! :rolleyes: science-lesson today, i accidentally broke my bottle filled with cooking water, by putting it in cold water.. that makes the bottle break, ofcourse... :rolleyes: well, anyway, back to GSR: don't know what we are talking about yet, cause i'm reading the posts now, at the same time i'm typing! but what i do wanted to say was that i saw bloodlines again, and it made me remember these good old times, back in the days GSR was more angst than romance. :p it was sooo freakin' adorable how grissom took sara's hand, and just holded it for a couple of minutes... i was like: awhhhhhhhhhh..... *sigh* :) it still is one of my favourite episodes, it shows that gris does really cares about sara :D
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

sarahvma-why do you think he did that?
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Referring to asking out Sofia? I think it would be too easy a cop-out to just say "The writers made a stupid storyline, I didn't like it, therefore it doesn't count."

They added a character, whether we liked it or not. They made that character flirt with Grissom, which we definitely didn't like, but I do think that her presence proved this with GSR: Grissom seemed to almost be viewing Sofia as Sara with a clean slate. A little ballsy, definitely set in her ways, but also someone with whom he had no past.

He wasn't her teacher, proven by the fact that she had a very different style from his. When she threatened to leave, he kind of got to treat her the way he should have treated Sara, but didn't in Burden of Proof because of pride and a few other reasons.

But, like any replacement, I think it became clear that she couldn't be a substitute for Sara.

Grissom's problem, in my mind, is that he tends to fall in love with the idea of someone, but once they happen to have a past or problems, he kind of shuts down (apologies, but Lady Heather being a prime example). Once they're not just someone to flirt with, I think he freaks out a little bit.

Committed may have kind of shown him that he couldn't ignore Sara anymore when things got emotional.

And once he admitted that to himself, the thing with Sofia, if there ever was one (I don't mean an affair, just attraction) was over.

But the dinner invite itself? He's learned how to keep an employee.
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

i prefer the cop-out way of thinking, seriously.

i guess youre theory makes sense, about Sophia. all those other women he had no real past with, cleaner, less risk, so it was easier for him. it meant less, less was riding on it, he didnt have to give too much of himself away or expose himself too much. didnt have to talk about how he felt, there were no expectations. but with sara he had this huge complicated history, and had been working with her for 5 years back then, and she had made it clear on several occasions she had feelings for him, and he felt stuff for her two...though he was maybe in denial sometimes, and none of the other ladys he dated had, that was all attraction. so i think on top of being conflicted because he felt it a student/boss relationship, which over the years might have meant less when she came into her own, i think he knew with sara, it would be serious and once he decided to cross the line, there was no going back, professionally speaking. risk wise......it was just all so complicated with sara, and he knew it....and that scared him, and made him hold back even more, i hate that he prefered to suffer in silence though because that meant sara had to suffer too. but there came a time when he realised, his feelings were too strong and he cared too much for her, and he went with his heart.

i agree committed was maybe the turning point for him.

Butterflied was the turning point when the case victim resembled sara, which led to him admitting how he felt...

Committed where he nearly lost her/could have lost her...made him realise he couldnt waste anymore time. you only get one life.
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

[SPOILER="Burn Out" thoughts]OK, I just saw the promo for this ep featuring the incredible Alan Tudyk. In the scene, Mr. Tudyk's character has a line to Grissom, talking about building trust... This is a general question, but do you think Grissom would ever mention he has a girlfriend (not Sara, or even "a coworker" specifically, just that he's taken) in an interrogation setting?

[/SPOILER]

Just something to get some conversation going! :)
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

I know it has been talked about in length but I would have to agree that the turning point was in Snakes. She was very honest with him and let him know that he was the reason that she was in Vegas. She put the ball in his court. And according to the commentary, he wanted something to happen but she didn't want it to be because she pushed him. I think Grissom started to realize how much she meant to him in Butterflied, but didn't understand that it was his turn to make a move until Snakes aired. I think that it was after that that they started dating.
Just an opinion.
I also agree that he was just testing the waters with other people (Sophia, LH) to see if there was anything else out there. I think he realized that he only wanted to be with Sara, and Sara only.
He knew that she was the only one he wanted to be with for life. In Butterflied, he said that he would have to risk everything to be with her. I think he did risk everything and he found out it was worth it just to be with Sara.
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

But the dinner invite itself? He's learned how to keep an employee.
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I agree with this. I mean, I think he was attracted to Sofia, but I am leaning more towards that the dinner invite was more of a way to talk to her about staying. It was kind of like "Let's have dinner and talk this over, shall we? Come on..." He was probably just going to convince her to stay. Personally I think the writers should have made it clearer and expounded on it. But maybe the fact that they didn't... means the dinner didn't mean anything.

Committed where he nearly lost her/could have lost her...made him realise he couldnt waste anymore time. you only get one life.
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And he probably waited a while after Committed before making his move but I definitely think seeing her in a near-death situation did a number on him.

And then after Grave Danger it probably ampliphied that feeling. Let's face it, he probably at some point thought "that could have just as easily been Sara as it was Nick" and although it sounds insensitive it would have certainly been natural.

Still, it is awkward to imagine Grissom making his first move because he isn't a risk taker in matters of the heart. And Sara already told him that there will come a time when it is too late. I doubt she approached him again and he just gave in; he is the one who approached her, I'm sure. He took a big risk that she wasn't going to turn him down saying that it was indeed too late.

Not sure if this has to be in a spoiler box, but I will because you did, lol. I don't think he would mention being taken to a suspect. Not because he is keeping it a secret, but because he never gets personal with suspects. If asked, he would probably say "This isn't about me" or something to that affect. Butterflied was of course an exception, but I don't remember any time other than that when he shared details about his personal life.
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

Ashes86, to avoid double posting (which is against the rules) opt for clicking the 'Edit' button at the top of your post instead. If you want to make sure people know you have added something to that post, before the new bit you write, just put "ETA:" (which means "Edited To Add"). Thanks :)

New promo pics are out for Post Mortem!

*SPOILER WARNING*: DO NOT CLICK ON THEM IF YOU WISH TO REMAIN UNSPOILED FOR WHAT THE EPISODE IS ABOUT.

Two G/S ones are here and here :D
 
Re: Grissom&Sara #23 - Hot, Butt-Kicking, Chainsaw Wielding

they look sooo cute together in these pictures TS!!! :eek: sooooo freakin' adorable! i can't wait till season seven airs in holland... hope that's soon! :)
 
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