"Grave Danger" Discussion (Beware Spoilers)

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

I'm still in afterglow...

Tarantino in genius mode. First, all the little expository stuff in the beginning, the little conversational/interactional scenes that you tend to think at first are just filler? Unh-uh. It's major set-up.

Another thing they did well was to show the characters in full-strength mode and then strip them down to the basic elements. Catherine, who is initially very take-charge and comes up with the "zip it" and "shaddup!" lines, has to sacrifice her pride and approach her father on his terms for the ransom money. Warrick, who comes off as rather macho in the locker room scene, is brought to his knees emotionally. And Nick, who seems so unflappable and easygoing in that first sequence...well, need I say more.

The autopsy scene had the same effect on me as the adrenaline-injection-in-the-heart scene from QT's "Pulp Fiction" - I was simultaneously laughing and cringing. The scene that had me tearing up first was when Nick's parents saw him in the coffin. On first watching, I was bawling. Second time, it still had me damn near sobbing. Kudos to the actors who played Bill and Jillian Stokes.

Did I detect light being used as a metaphor, both positive and negative? The lesser but positive lights being the glow-sticks and the team's Mini-Mags (that looked so tiny but hopeful in the dark night of the rescue scene), the greater but negative light being the light inside the coffin? And if you want to get reeeealllly "zen", the "inner lights" - Grissom's is science, entomology, as he calmly looks for the species of ant that is meanwhile eating Nick alive. Warrick's is simply the fire in his heart. At first, Grissom's seems almost too detached, too "cold", while Warrick's is out of control and hence fruitless and self-defeating at times. But both are needed, in the long run, to save Nick.

For all of the drama, tension, twists, turns and "Holy #@&%!" moments in "Grave Danger", at its heart it is, ironically, a love story. By that I mean a story of many loves, manifesting in different ways, but ever-present and suddenly forced by circumstances to focus on the rescue of one team member and to demand more of the loves that interweave to form the supporting fabric that holds them all.

Of course, the central "love story" is that of the team as a whole. One of their own is in danger, and that immediately becomes All That Matters. It's a family that has been attacked, and the wagons are circled. Investigators, detectives, "lab rats", even the snarky Ecklie is touched. But there are dynamics between certain characters that seem suddenly strengthened, making that support fabric tougher and the rescue all that much more attainable.

Grissom and his "guys". There is already a unique quality about his relationships with Sara (the "unrequited love" that affects him nonetheless) and Greg (former "lab rat" always looking for a raise, suddenly hungry for the field and "not about the money"...repercussions from "Play With Fire"?). But the team was split, and Catherine ended up with the two men with whom Grissom had had the most intriguing interaction: Warrick, his "chosen one", the bad-boy-gone-good, and Nick, often unfairly the recipient of the brunt of Grissom's frustration and impatience. It seems as if Grissom favors Warrick to a dysfunctional degree...but, forced with the prospect of losing Nick, Grissom has to reconsider how he sees him. When Nick addresses what he thinks will be his last words to Grissom by expressing sorrow at disappointing him, Grissom says, "No, you never did." If only Nick could have heard him.

Catherine and Warrick. The lot of a single working mother is not an easy one, especially with the added burdens of a shady father, a nasty (and, later, dead) ex-husband and a past as a stripper. Warrick doesn't judge, doesn't lecture. Instead, Catherine brings out the protector and nurturer in him; he is her tower of strength and comforting power on many an occasion. But this time, it's Warrick that is crumbling. He is ridden with guilt - perhaps another painful flashback to his carelessness that cost Holly Gribbs' life. He is humbled by Nick's ability to hold on through the hell he's been relegated to. But when Warrick confesses to Catherine that his own courage would have been long broken in the same circumstances, she insists, "I know you. I don't believe that." Although he tells her she's wrong, she sees Warrick's courage more clearly than he can himself. That will certainly be apparent later.

The Stokes family. There was Matalin and Carville. Schwartzenegger and Shriver. And now right/left "power couple" Bill and Jillian Stokes. He's a tough Texas state judge; she's an advocate for the accused. But the marriage is obviously based on profound mutual respect and affection, which seems to have translated into a loving and close-knit family. And the most appropriate product of that union is Nick, who embodies the quests for justice and compassion in a single personality. That they would come to Nevada from Texas to try to help in the rescue of their son would be a given...but Grissom observes Judge Stokes and how he reacts to and speaks to his wounded son, and derives from that the way...and the one word...that cements his ability to save Nick. Grissom may at last be learning to nurture, even if by mimickry. Baby steps.

Walter and Kelly Gordon. There is a form of "honor among thieves", and even the most hardened of criminals can have deep and unconditional love for their children. Kelly Gordon, caught up in a bad situation, is paying with a hellish prison sentence, the "sin" for which her father Walter feels the CSI unit must "atone" by watching one of their own suffer. It is a dysfunctional "love", but one Nick still has the compassion to understand when he confronts Kelly after his ordeal...and perhaps that compassion will have some effect on Kelly, coming as it does from the one who was maltreated for her sake.

Nick and Warrick. Their friendship has always been a strong one, capable of light-heartedness and macho competitiveness, and at the same time supportiveness and concern. It was apparent from at least "Stalker" that when one is hurt or endangered, the effect on the other is deep. But Nick's situation is so dire, and Warrick feels so powerless, that he is utterly devastated. When he tells Catherine, "If something happens to Nick, if we don't bring him back in one piece..." you're almost glad he never finishes the sentence; the implied conclusion is almost too painful to verbalize. As he watches Nick on the video, it seems as if his own heart is buried with his friend. When they finally find Nick, all semblance to the cocky, cool, self-assured Warrick of the first season is gone - his tearful "I'm not leaving here without him!" is the emotional crest of the episode - the statement that he would rather die with Nick than save his own life and leave him to die alone. Even as the ambulance heads off into the night, and the two friends clasp hands, you have a sense of that friendship being a rock that will weather any storm, the kind of friendship about which legends are written.

That this episode and the actors involved were overlooked at the Emmys this year is a travesty. But then...how long did it take for Jimi Hendrix to get a Grammy? (Hell, did he ever?) Fortunately, not everyone buys into the hype, the Academy darlings, the Next Big Thing. I think we know quality when we see it.

Consider soapbox thoroughly worked. Bring on Season 6!!

P.S. - I was a genetics nerd in high school. Blue-eyedness is a recessive trait. Nick could possibly have two blue-eyed parents and have brown eyes. (In fact, my father's eyes were blue, my mom's are green - I have dark eyes.)

--Robin

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

What an excellent and well thought post. I am kind of in awe.

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

I second that!! Well done!!

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

Beautifully written..I couldn't have said better myself.

Belive it or not, there are many wonderful directors, shows and actors overlooked at the Emmys and other award shows

Example given..Michael Landon never won an Emmy for his role on Little House..but remains in many of our hearts forever as a Pa Ingals..the dad we wished we had.

It took Susan Lucci of All My Children 11 tries before she finally won Best Actress Day Time Emmy.

Director Martin Scorsese-sp? has directed many wonderful movies such as The Aviator-and again this year he lost Best Director Oscar to Clint Eastwood.

Each time Annette Benning has gone up against Hilliary Swank for a Best Actress Oscar.

Sometimes it takes the Academys a while before they catch on to what is really good quality out there.

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

I just watched "Grave Danger" for the first time last night because I missed it last season. I wanted to make sure I watched it before the season premier tonight.

During the 2 hours of the show, I sniffled and cried for about an hour and a half of it. It was so intense. I don't think I left my room even to go to the bathroom, even during the commercials. I couldn't take my eyes off of the screen. At the end, when Warrick and Grissom take the case off of the coffin and Nick has to lay still, and he starts crying and reaching out for them, I completely broke down. I have to say that CSI and Eades was robbed of an Emmy. That was perhaps the best season finale of any TV show that I have EVER watched, period, hands down!
Jesus, that was amazing. I can't wait for the new season to start tonight!
Later!
Sarah

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

I was exactly the same way Sarah8Renee.

I have to add though that what really made me break down was when Nick's mom watched her son in the box. Being a mother myself, I felt her pain on so many levels. I would have lost it completely if it were one of my boys though.

Seeing Warrick break, also was hard to watch. My friends mean everything to me. Knowing that you are so close but yet so far would frustrate the heck out of me.

I think we might see a new bond develop with Grissom and Nick. It took me the whole evening to figure out what Nick said on that tape recorder, but once I did, it definately made sense that Nick looked at Griss as a surrogate father figure. He was worried he let him down.

I can't wait for the premiere tonight.

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

After re-watching this ep, I have a couple of observations...First, it was strange hearing Sam Braun introduce Catherine as 'my daughter.' Is it just me, or did it look like Grissom was going to cry when they first got the tape and they were all watching Nick? And did his voice start to crack when he told Nick to place hand up against his? A great episode, one of the best CSI eps ever...and QT should have gotten the emmy...

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

Don't worry ford_perfect my mom's eyes are brown and dad's eyes brown, yet i have changeable color eyes, hazel, blue, brown, depending on my mood.
I know one girl whose parents have Green eyes, she has blue, and her brother has brown, but they are definitly their parents lol you can tell.
Sometimes eye color is passed down from grandparents or other relatives, in my family our eye color varies, some take after mom and dad and some don't, its like hair color to.
Okay moved a little off topic on that one didn't i? *puts back on topic.*

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoilers***

I had to admint im hooked to CSI again. This is one of the best episode i've seen so far. It definitely ranks up there.

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoilers***

Thanks Destiny. It's been a little while since I took genetics and I really couldn't remember if blue eyes were recessive or what not. At any rate, I still think her eyes are brown. They're probably hazel.

korbjaeger that was a very insightful post. It is amazing that after 4 months and countless many viewings of this episode that people can still find new things about it that I never even thought about. That is one of the things I love about Quentin Tarantino's movies. Every time you watch them you see or understand something that you didn't notice before. I have no trouble believing that the same thought and effort went into every scene of this episode.

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

I actually noticed the eye thing the first time and tried to check out Lois Chiles on IMDB, but there are no photos and no stats. I couldn't be bothered to check further than that... But I sort of thought they looked greenish, and that would work, so I let it go!

As for the weight thing, I was thinking that all the dirt must have added to the pressure once Walter activated it (it couldn't have been automatic, or he would have blown up while he was putting Nick in there to begin with). Then I was thinking, what about when they removed the dirt to dig him out, or when Grissom stood on top...???

So, seeing as there were all the variables, I decided that the charges must have been set to a minimum weight, activated after the body was in there and set. So, as long as that weight was there, or more weight, everything would be OK. I think Grissom was just trying to play it safe and put as much dirt as possible so that when Nick was pulled, the short loss of the main weight directly over the sensors (Nick's body) would be compensated for enough to give him a couple seconds before it blew.

Does that make any sense? It's working for me, anyway! :lol:

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

I was just thinking about this and realized that if blue eyes are a recessive trait, then there is no way, outside of a mutation, that two people with blue eyes could have a child with brown eyes. The parents would each have two recessive alleles, which could only combine to make a child with two recessive alleles. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

ETA: If Nick's mother does have brown eyes, which would be a dominant trait, then he could have either ended up with brown or blue eyes, depending on whether she had two dominant alleles or a dominant and a recessive allele. Either way Nick would have received a dominant allele from his mother and a recessive allele from his father, giving him his beautiful brown eyes.

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

Oops... looks like I missed a whole page of posts before I posted... Just wanted to add: Excellent breakdown, Korbjaeger. Very well written.

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

you're right, ford_prefect, a genetic mutation is the only way two blue-eyed people would produce a brown-eyed kid.

anyway, sorry to pull us back off topic, yet again.

 

Re: Post - "Grave Danger" Episode Discussion/Review ***Spoi

I love the insights that people can come up with regarding this episode. Here are my little thoughts:

Why on earth was that officer throwing up for so long? He obviously was not a newbie because Nick seems to know him and he was called to a scene with body parts on his own. I know someone has already posted this point somewhere, but how on earth did he not notice Nick struggle with his attacker, for that guy to carry Nick away AND come back to neatly lay down Nick's vest and equipment??? Brass should fire his ass!

i don't see why we had the scene about grissom and "Trigger" nor the Dukes of Hazzard game, - i know they were nice moments but i wanted more action! the scene with archie and ecklie - i guess they had that to show the budget cuts they were taking, and the Nick and Warrick locker scene was to show the audience the friendship between them.

anyone else want to know what happened with the story about the twins? i do! (i wonder if they'll have any people being angry with them in the new season because all they worked on that night was Nick's case and their loved one's case probably went cold)

I like it that we couldn't hear him because it gave us Grissom's point of view and i found it more heartbreaking watching Nick's face saying those words without being distracted by the sound. I don't think it was that important for us to know the exact words it was more about the emotions and they tried to make sure that the audience sort of know what Nick was saying as he pronounced the words slowly and clearly for the camera.

hmm... yes, i have to agree.

The autopsy scene - i didnt find it particularly funny because i think i was still recovering from the shock of seeing nick being pulled out of the drawer. However i found it completely necessary because it offered the audience a bit of release and they needed to show that Nick was starting to go out of his mind. And how else can they relay information to the audience and Nick that he's going to die from suffocation?

Agree with Baba that the min weight was Nick's body and when he was flipping around, he had all the dirt above him. The thing i'm curious about is that when they were digging down to the box, they had to dig a wide area - so what happened to the air pipe from the box? i couldn't see it (after Cath shouted down it) - (* i know its a tv show *) - if they removed the pipe then they were not helping with the lack of oxygen problem.

yes it was powerful. though i would like an ending scene of nick as well, i have to admit it was genious ending it on her face, especially because we can't really tell if she's smirking or not - thus is she sorry or not - did she really know??? see what the end scene made alot of us think and debate about?

I'm sorry that i can't add any thoughtful insights (had exams today), but i haven't watched this ep for a while (a few months ago - but see how much it still sticks to my mind!). i just hope someone reads this because i know most of you are getting ready for the new season!

Enjoy the premier tonight!