Grade 'Personal Foul'

[Kimmychu]

I have something for consideration for all of you:

When I mentioned that Danny looked and sounded like he was drunk and confused when he called Lindsay, I was serious. (Although yeah, the scene still cracks me up thanks to his voice and expression.) In the D/L scene, Danny is shown already sitting at his kitchen counter, looking upset and well, drunk. When the Danny/Rikki scene takes place just minutes later in the episode, Danny's just fine and not the least bit upset ... well, not until Rikki tells him she's moving away. Also, the D/R scene ends with Danny picking up Ruben's memorial pamphlet and then trudging his way to the kitchen counter where he sits with his head bowed while it rains. There's even the emphasis on the rain as he sits there alone.

Do you guys think TPTB may have switched the scene placements?

If the D/R scene had taken place first, then I totally get why Danny was acting and sounding so odd on the phone with Lindsay, and why he'd look like he wanted to kill himself instead. I tell ya, when somebody genuinely misses another, they shouldn't look like they're disgusted with what they're saying.

However, I can also understand why TPTB may have switched the scenes. If the D/R one had taken place first, it would have been 100% obvious Danny called Lindsay up because he's settling for second best since Rikki's moving away and technically leaving him. As it is right now, things are still ambiguous because 1) Lindsay STILL doesn't know about Danny having slept with Rikki and yet, she's already doing this ignoring and pushing thing towards him and 2) it's more than possible he only said to both Lindsay and Rikki in both scenes what they wanted to hear in a last resort effort to keep them in his life.

Danny has serious abandonment issues, man.

 

[Dims]

If the D/R one had taken place first, it would have been 100% obvious Danny called Lindsay up because he's settling for second best since Rikki's moving away and technically leaving him.

well...it was before she told him she is leaving him that she wanted to GO IN to his appartment but instead he did NOT let her in and told her what they were doing is wrong and it shouldnt happen again.

I liked how the whole dialogue just took place outside in the corridor.

so yeah....actually it was Danny who dumped Rikki first

 

[Faylinn]

well...it was before she told him she is leaving him that she wanted to GO IN to his appartment but instead he did NOT let her in and told her what they were doing is wrong and it shouldnt happen again.

I liked how the whole dialogue just took place outside in the corridor.

so yeah....actually it was Danny who dumped Rikki first

Maybe he shouldn't have assumed that 'Can I come in?' means 'Let's have hot, wild monkey sex.' She went there to tell him she was leaving, not for a booty call. And even if she had gone there for sex, it's not like they hadn't done it before--it wouldn't make her a bad person for not having psychic knowledge that Danny had changed his mind.

The emphasis on Danny 'dumping' Rikki in favor of Lindsay is...never mind. *shakes head* I thought he was labeled a scumbag for 'cheating' on Lindsay, but now it's like 'Yeah, bitch, he dumped you for Lindsay!' This? Does not erase the events of 4.16, no matter how you spin it. It also does not change the fact that Rikki is a grieving mother, that Danny is grieving, and that them getting together was not anywhere near the same as, say, Danny hooking up with a random wh*re off the street.

But I digress...

Fact is, Danny was saying that they shouldn't sleep together, but if he wanted her out of his life altogether, he wouldn't have looked so crushed when she said she was leaving. I can't recall if he actually used the word "wrong" to describe them sleeping together, but even if he did--that doesn't necessarily mean "It was WRONG to sleep with you because I'm in LOVE with Lindsay!" Perhaps it means "It was wrong for us to try to heal our pain that way." (I only watched the episode once, while chatting simultaneously, so I don't remember exactly what was said or implied before Rikki cut him off.)

I took Kimmy's use of 'leaving him' to be in the literal sense that she's physically leaving him behind and moving on with her life. Like it or not, their relationship was more than physical.

I do think it's interesting with those two scenes, Kimmy. I'll have to re-watch before I can give my opinion on the possibility, but switching them could make sense--particularly considering that Danny suddenly wants to confide in Lindsay and have her in his apartment (presumably for sex, knowing Danny) after shutting her out before. Yes, he wanted to 'talk' earlier (after she practically sprinted away from him in the morgue), but he's suddenly all emo and needy on the phone? How convenient that he'd do so right before Rikki tells him she's leaving and, therefore, won't be there to support him anymore. Maybe he's psychic.

Or maybe it was the way the rain reminded him of his own emo tears.

 

[Kimmychu]

Faylinn said:
Fact is, Danny was saying that they shouldn't sleep together, but if he wanted her out of his life altogether, he wouldn't have looked so crushed when she said she was leaving. I can't recall if he actually used the word "wrong" to describe them sleeping together, but even if he did--that doesn't necessarily mean "It was WRONG to sleep with you because I'm in LOVE with Lindsay!" Perhaps it means "It was wrong for us to try to heal our pain that way."

Bingo.

He said that she was right in saying that what they had been doing, using sex to heal their pain, was bad. He didn't say wrong. The emphasis on her being right was significant. Why specifically say that if he didn't feel anything for her and wanted her gone for good? He said it because he wanted to appease her, and him wanting to appease her also proves the last thing he wants is Rikki gone. Moreover, him assuming she wanted to have sex with him again implies they might have slept together again since episode 4x16. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if they've been having sex right up until this episode, seeing as this is the first time Danny's told Rikki she was right that them using sex to heal their pain was not a good thing.

Like Fay said, if he had intended to 'dump' Rikki from the start and didn't want to see her ever again, he would not have looked the way he did at the mere realization she was moving away. Heh, he would have been happy to have her gone then if it was the former case, hm?

*sniffsniff* I smell yet another case of projection here.

And yes, Fay, I meant it in that literal sense.

Or maybe it was the way the rain reminded him of his own emo tears.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Danny can package his own brand of emo tears! Think of all the cash he'll make this season alone!

 

[Faylinn]

^It reminds me of Men in Black II. 'You aren't sad because it rains, it rains because you're sad,' or whatever.

Danny's so emo, he makes it rain. :lol:

 

[Dims]

It is so exhilarating arguing with you guys here...i just love it (yeah sorry OT :lol

anyhow....

The emphasis on Danny 'dumping' Rikki in favor of Lindsay is...never mind. *shakes head* I thought he was labeled a scumbag for 'cheating' on Lindsay, but now it's like 'Yeah, bitch, he dumped you for Lindsay!' This? Does not erase the events of 4.16, no matter how you spin it. It also does not change the fact that Rikki is a grieving mother, that Danny is grieving, and that them getting together was not anywhere near the same as, say, Danny hooking up with a random wh*re off the street.

The emphassis was actually random..i didnt mean to emphasize it. Just state it.Danny is a scumbag for cheating on Lindsay but who says that people can not redeem themselves for their mistakes? I believe Danny has realised his mistake and believes that he is suffering more with Lindsay being distant and the whole healing relationship with Rikki was not as healing as he expected. His pain and the fact he misses Linds more than he can say (his words not mine) apparently is much larger than the relief he was feeling when he was with Rikki. So he needs to work on what he believes will help him and make him feel better.

Furthermore i will not elaborate on my lowwwwww opinion on Rikki....it really wont get us anywhere.

Fact is, Danny was saying that they shouldn't sleep together, but if he wanted her out of his life altogether, he wouldn't have looked so crushed when she said she was leaving.

Danny showed us that he acts on his feelings and tends to not think in the long run. So when he heard that Rikki was leaving...if indeed that crushed him as much as some people claim i believe he would just react instinctively. Like say No or kiss her or sth.Yes he felt sad when she said she was leaving....but did anyone expect him to just answer "Good riddance and dont let the door hit you on the way out"? Ofcourse not. To me he looked sad not crushed so i suppose we should agree to disagree.

 

[Gaelen]

I gave the episode a B+.

I found the Cabbie Killer arc quite engaging throughout the episode and Mac's frustration with it (especially at the end) is evident and the progression was good. Having said that, the plus size Paula case was just boring and they solved it without a single road block. Lovely. Interesting idea, but I didn't think it came across as entertaining at all. The only thing I liked about it was watching that annoying man run down the stairs oh so many times.

I liked Lindsay's walk in the rain, and how she says it's a Montana thing. Highlights the fact that she hasn't lost her roots, and that she, well, isn't a New Yorker and does things differently.

Having Lindsay tell Danny that it wasn't time to talk at work was good; shows she's getting a handle on her feelings and working towards it not affecting her at work.

Rikki saying she's moving away was somewhat predictable, but not unrealistic. People do move away all the time to get a fresh start. It doesn't always work, but often times it does.

The sugar deal was lame.

And...next week looks like a pretty good episode with Reed in the centre of it, which means Mac's going to be even more touchy. Hopefully the writer's history with anti-climatic endings are done and over with.

 

[origin-nknwn]

Trust me, I really, really tried to watch that scene in all seriousness but the way Carmine delivered those lines ... :guffaw:I just keep laughing my ass off, every time! Now that I think about it, maybe he deliberately did it that way because he knew how lame the scene was going to be so he figured, "Yeah, I might as well make myself sound funny so at least I'll make people laugh!"

Thank you, Carmine, if that was the case. I, for one, highly appreciated it.

I laughed my ass off as well, so you're not alone in that. I thought he sounded so funny in that scene. It would not surprise me if he did that on purpose...

Heheh, it was probably a joke when he mentioned it in his interview, but who knows? I think Danny ending up in a asylum would be awesome simply because I know Carmine will knock it out of the ballpark like everything else. The only question is whether TPTB is going to drag Lindsay into it since she's practically invisible without Danny as her prop. :wtf:

As I said in reply to Redsiren:

Danny totally losing his shit would be interesting - for about 2 seconds until Lindsay has an even bigger breakdown because OMG it's all about her. :lol:

Carmine would totally pwn at playing it though...

 

[Cat123]

Oh Reed, what a numpty. Doesn't mean I'm any less scared for him though, but why WHY get in a cab?!

 

[privatename]

Trust me, I really, really tried to watch that scene in all seriousness but the way Carmine delivered those lines ... :guffaw:I just keep laughing my ass off, every time! Now that I think about it, maybe he deliberately did it that way because he knew how lame the scene was going to be so he figured, "Yeah, I might as well make myself sound funny so at least I'll make people laugh!"

Thank you, Carmine, if that was the case. I, for one, highly appreciated it.

I laughed my ass off as well, so you're not alone in that. I thought he sounded so funny in that scene. It would not surprise me if he did that on purpose...

I really thought he sounded odd in those scenes as well. He sounded drunk to me and like he was forcing himself to say what he was saying as if he didn't really believe what he was saying. Maybe he did do it deliberately and that would be hilarious.

 

[Kimmychu]

Dims said:
It is so exhilarating arguing with you guys here...i just love it (yeah sorry OT :lol

Heh, this is a discussion board. No holds barred. Here, everyone has the right to voice their opinion, regardless of ships, whether they're canon or not and whether people like them or not. And we certainly don't delete posts and ban members just for saying negative statements about a particular ship. Completely defeats the purpose of a discussion board to begin with.

I believe Danny has realised his mistake and believes that he is suffering more with Lindsay being distant and the whole healing relationship with Rikki was not as healing as he expected. His pain and the fact he misses Linds more than he can say (his words not mine) apparently is much larger than the relief he was feeling when he was with Rikki. So he needs to work on what he believes will help him and make him feel better.

To each their own. But the thing is, Danny had been distant and detached from Lindsay since episode 4x01. He rolled his eyes at her when she was explaining something to him and in episode 4x02, he literally told her off in the labs when she complimented him and expected some similar response from him towards her. And whenever they were working together until episode 4x11, their behavior was strictly professional. There was no indication that they spent time outside of work.

Then Ruben's death happened, and we saw Lindsay half-heartedly attempt to reach out to Danny in the morgue. And he blatantly brushed her off. After that, we saw no indication whatsoever that Lindsay attempted to talk to him about things or even approach him. Then in episode 4x13, she calls him only because he didn't show up for work. The only time we saw her trying again since 4x13 was her calling him and asking him out for lunch, which he turned down. Then, on the same day, she got all self-righteous and annoyed with him simply because he turned down that lunch offer.

The significant thing is that he called her out on her annoyance and asked her straight up what's wrong with him turning down lunch. Another significant thing is that she never answered that question and simply ranted about how awful he was for not turning to her the way she expected him to do so. Then, she played the ignoring game and turned him away every time he wanted to talk. By the way, she has no idea Danny's slept with Rikki (and still doesn't!), which means she's treating him like this all because he didn't go to her for support like she expected.

Moreover, her ignoring and turning him away goes on for weeks after that.

My point being?

He was already distancing himself from Lindsay long before Rikki even appeared on the show. Him pushing her away when she tried to talk to him, during time long before Danny even had sex with Rikki, already speaks volumes. In his lowest time, Lindsay was someone he didn't want to talk to. That just makes her being mad at Danny for not going to her rather childish; she just assumed Danny would go to her, even though she already got a straight up hint so early after the incident that he didn't want to talk to her.

And what he did with Rikki after Ruben's passing is irrelevant to Lindsay, as much as some would like to think Danny's entire world revolves around Lindsay. He didn't 'choose Rikki over Lindsay'. It wasn't even a question of whether he was hoping to find more solace in Rikki or not. Danny did what he did with Rikki because at the time, he truly believed he was doing something good for Rikki and himself. Simple as that. Sure, we as the audience can see that it wasn't a good thing but that's just it, we're the audience and he's a character in the show. So to turn what he did into a Lindsay VS Rikki weird-ass competition is just ... silly.

Yeah. Did I mention Danny has yet to tell Lindsay he had sex with Rikki? If he's been in a relationship with Lindsay all this time, you'd think he would actually feel guilty about it, right? That's why him saying he misses Lindsay a lot =/= Him saying he's in love with her too. Considering how many times Lindsay has turned him away whenever he attempted to talk to her, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he said what he did as a last resort to finally get them both talking, rather than him actually meaning his words. Danny is one confused S.O.B. right now.

I also have to add that him saying he misses her out of the blue like that, when he laughed and smiled at Flack saying he should piss off Lindsay more often and by implication, that he isn't spending time with Lindsay is ... plain illogical. What kind of a guy who 'misses someone more than he can say' be happy and smiley about not spending time with that someone on the same day? Just illogical. *shakes head*

I do agree with you on one thing, Danny certainly has to figure out what will help him and make him feel better and I believe in due time, he will. Having said what I have, I highly doubt it'll be Lindsay. All she seems to have done so far is make him feel like a dog who poo-pooed on the carpet and deserved to be punished.That's just my opinion, of course.

So when he heard that Rikki was leaving...if indeed that crushed him as much as some people claim i believe he would just react instinctively. Like say No or kiss her or sth.Yes he felt sad when she said she was leaving.

...

Him, doing that after he told her that she was right and that them using sex to make each other feel better was bad?!

Uhm. No. That's like something straight out of a really bad romance novel.

Danny kissing Rikki after saying what he did would just drive her away faster, and seeing how his face fell after he finds out she's moving away, I doubt that's what he wanted.

origin-nknwn said:
Danny totally losing his shit would be interesting - for about 2 seconds until Lindsay has an even bigger breakdown because OMG it's all about her.

:lol: Yep, right now, I can see that being the case should Danny end up in an asylum.

privatename said:
I really thought he sounded odd in those scenes as well. He sounded drunk to me and like he was forcing himself to say what he was saying as if he didn't really believe what he was saying. Maybe he did do it deliberately and that would be hilarious.

That's why Faylinn and I suspected TPTB may have changed the scenes' placements in the final episode. If the Danny/Rikki scene had been before the D/L one, it would have made tons more sense why Danny acted and sounded drunk and yeah, like you said, didn't really believe what he was saying. Makes even less sense that he's absolutely fine in the D/R scene just minutes after the D/L one!

P.S. Long post is long.

 

[Redsiren]

Does the Danny you know have balls, by any chance?

Um, let me check.
*yells* Oi, Flack!
Flack: What?
Me: 'Will ya look in Danny's pants for me and see if he still has his balls?'
Flack: 'Sure, just wait a sec...c'mere, Mess....*sound of unzipping an rustling* yep, he's still got 'em.'
Danny (happy/drunk): My balls are back!!! Yeah!!! I'm a REAL BOY NOW!!!
Flack: That's right, baby!

Yeah....I think I need to stay off the caffeine...

:guffaw:

I think you need to stay on it, if this is what we get when you have too much of it.

Someone needs to write that into a story. That is just WAY too good!

 

[Redsiren]

I will take Ken over Mutton Chops ANY day. *scampers back off to her corner*:lol:

Oh yes. Jeez, his hair in S1 really sucked. Even if his current do does make him look like a real-life Ken doll...

That would be one for the books, now wouldn't it? *goes into daydreaming mode*


"Danny, stop drawing on the walls and LOOK at me for a second, I'm talkin' here!"

*Lindsay stamps her feet like a small child*

*Messer keeps drawing on the walls of his cell with the same grin as the one in his picture on her phone*

Danny would be that one you get on every psych ward - that tongues their meds, draws on walls, runs up and down the halls screaming at 2am and who puts cigarettes out on their arms. And as a result, spends vast amounts of time in P-ICU lock-up banging on the door and pulling the padding out of the walls.

Uh, maybe I shouldn't highlight my experience of being institutionalised... *whistles*

See, now, I'm trying to think back to 'Girl, Interrupted' to see which of those chicks Danny might be the closest to in terms of how he'd behave in an asylum. :lol:

I could totally see him being the type you described there, especially if Lindsay keeps her little games up the way she is now.

And I haven't even finished my coffee yet... *goes back to her little corner and drags Messer with her*

 

[kcatlin]

I really thought he sounded odd in those scenes as well. He sounded drunk to me and like he was forcing himself to say what he was saying as if he didn't really believe what he was saying. Maybe he did do it deliberately and that would be hilarious.

He did, he really really did, LOL. I'm a DL fan, but he really did sound drunk, or at the very least very very very tired. LOL

And on the topic of moving, Danny needs to move as well. Danny being in that building by himself is not going to be good for him.

 

[origin-nknwn]

Oh Reed, what a numpty. Doesn't mean I'm any less scared for him though, but why WHY get in a cab?!

Numpty. Heh heh. :lol: There's a word I've not heard in years, since I moved away from Birmingham, England. Very apt though.

origin-nknwn said:
Danny totally losing his shit would be interesting - for about 2 seconds until Lindsay has an even bigger breakdown because OMG it's all about her.

:lol: Yep, right now, I can see that being the case should Danny end up in an asylum.

You know, in a way it makes me really sad that this is the case. I think Danny losing it a bit would be an interesting development - going off the rails and having to fight to get back. I just cringe for how they'd have her character deal with it and even more so for the performance Anna would give, with her limitations as an actress.

See, now, I'm trying to think back to 'Girl, Interrupted' to see which of those chicks Danny might be the closest to in terms of how he'd behave in an asylum. :lol:

I could totally see him being the type you described there, especially if Lindsay keeps her little games up the way she is now.

And I haven't even finished my coffee yet... *goes back to her little corner and drags Messer with her*

Which Girl, Interrupted girl would Danny be? Hmmmm...depends how serious it gets really. At this point, probably Susanna - she spends a lot of time in her own head in the film, with her journal and that. She sort of sits in the bleachers of life, looking in at everyone else going about their business.

If it gets worse, who knows. I'd have said Lisa, however she's a sociopath in the film and sociopaths are manipulative by nature - hello there Lindsay - a trait I don't see in Danny and to be honest, I don't see Danny really trying to escape all the time like she did. I don't think there really is a girl in that film that comes near to what I described - maybe Janet comes closest - the anorexic who continues to punish herself and breaks down when Daisy gets let out.

I actually can't believe I'm giving this much thought to this...

*makes another pot of tea*


ETA:

And on the topic of moving, Danny needs to move as well. Danny being in that building by himself is not going to be good for him.

Definitely agree with that. I think it'd help him a bit to be away from somewhere that constantly reminds him of what happened...