Grade 'Open and Shut'

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, Oct 25, 2006.

  1. FlackAttack

    FlackAttack Prime Suspect

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    While I thought Stella's case was a tad predictable, I was actually blindsided by the model case. I was pretty sure it would be the ice queen model that was the killer. Otherwise I enjoyed the episode and thought the ending was very powerful. I had a feeling that Grace might try to go "there" with Stella, but I thought Stella handled it well and gave her a good response. A rumble would've been more fun though.

    I adored the scene with Flack and the model's assistant, that was the best in the whole episode. Though I'm certain he said "kid", I think that matches the condescending tone he took better.

    I was surprised that Mac let Stella stay on the case, especially after the exchange between Stella and Lindsay. However, I could see why it was so important to Stella to work that case. She knew she was the only one who could truly understand what Grace was going through. And although it fogged her judgment for a little while, the scientist in her pulled through. After they cracked the case, she really was the best person to nail Grace for the murder.

    So does this mean we may finally see Flack angst over getting nearly blown up?
     
  2. ThumpyG

    ThumpyG Coroner

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    :) allieluvcsi , no one is going to hurt you for your opinion! :) I agree with you on those points about Stella's actions and the fact that Lindsay was just attempting to do what Stella has taught her to do, and Stella was taking this case too personal, as was to be expected. But I was also pleased to see that Mac gave her the leeway and she did use the evidence and realized that Grace was not the victim she percieved herself to be.

    and yes, Where was Danny? :confused: I missed seeing that HOTTIE the other night :lol:
     
  3. glam_chic86

    glam_chic86 Head of the Graveyard Shift

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    To echo what thumpy said nobody is going to attack you :). You have a right to express your views just as any member on this forum but in a respectable manner of course. However, someone may disagree with you ;):

    See, I think Stella got mad because of what Lindsay said, not because of who Lindsay is. I'm sure if Mac, Hawkes or any of the other guys said that she would've reacted in the same manner. It's also safe to assume that Stella apologized to Lindsay off screen but I guess we'll never find out unless it's brought up on a future episode. Basically, it was never Stella's intention to snap at Lindsay in the first place. Lindsay was in the wrong place at the wrong time & guessing by Stella's unexpected outburst she probably said the wrong thing too. There's a big difference between being mad at someone & being mad at what someone said & in this case Stella was pissed off at what she heard, not at the person. Also, after the way Stella came after Mac in Office Blue I can say that she has no problem being straight up with anyone. So as I metioned previously it was a bad timing situation. I also think that Lindsay learnt it the hard way that it's best to avoid an emotionally invested Stella :lol:.
     
  4. kinkapoodles

    kinkapoodles Judge

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    Ok, now that I've sat down and watched the episode again, I think I can comment on it now.

    The case with the wife was too easy to guess that she was the killer. I knew Stella was gonna take her side because of what she went through. Wonder how Stella would have reacted if Frankie hadn't tried to kill her?

    When Stella and Lindsay were discussing the case, I have to admit that Lindsay did have good points and Stella just didn't want to hear them. She was so sure the wife was a victim. Lindsay acted a little childish, IMO, when she huffed off but I couldn't tell if it was her or Stella that made the (huffy or whatever it was) sound.

    As for Stella "yelling" at Lindsay. I agree with jorja, it was because of what Lindsay said not because it was Lindsay. Why would Stella just pick on Lindsay? :confused: Stella doesn't have a problem confronting anybody. She snapped at Danny when he called her "dear" in Blink. She had it out with Flack when he wanted to go to the DA in Til Death Do We Part. She also had it out with Mac in Officer Blue when he wanted the bullet out of the horse.

    Later on when Lindsay and Hawkes were testing the hammer on the dummy, Lindsay seemed kind of hesitant to talk to Stella about their findings. Maybe Stella should have taken her aside sometime during the episode and told her she was sorry for getting huffy with her.

    As for whether or not Flack said "kid" or "kitten". It sounded like kitten to me. Hubby and I were watching it this evening (he hadn't seen it yet) and I asked him what Flack called her and he said kitten too. Also, somebody previously said that their closed caption showed kitten. Are the closed caption things accurate?

    DL not working together or having scenes together was refreshing. It's nice to see them apart. Lindsay needs a chance to grow as her own character and I think she does much better when she's not working with Danny on every case.

    I loved Adam showing Mac everything that was on the handrail. I can't believe there were that many different things on it. :eek: I loved when Adam was rattling off biologicals on it and Mac said something about hoping they weren't from the same person.

    What was with Danny? :confused: He was barely in this episode which is strange because he's rarely in the background. Hopefully he'll be off the prozac soon and back to his usual self. :p

    I was happy that Danny and Flack had a scene together. Got some nice screencaps from that. :D

    I almost forgot, I gave it an A-. :)

    ETA: I did forget to mention this: The reference to the potted plant made me laugh out loud. I think that shows TPTB are reading the forums. Now, if we could just get that Danny shower scene. :rolleyes:
     
  5. PrettyEyes

    PrettyEyes Pathologist

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    I couldn't agree with you more! I had a feeling Grace was attempting to play the system, and play on Stella's sympathies. Besides, the similarities between her case and Stella's case were too similar, if you know what I mean, almost like she thought she'd be having Stella working her case.

    Lindsay was merely attempting to extricate herself from one aspect of the case she found difficult. Lindsay did not lose objectivity, and she did not go ballistic, as Stella obviously did. In addition, Stella is Lindsay's supervisor, and a supervisor cannot subject a subordinate to treatment such as she did. Stella was losing all objectivity about the evidence, not even considering Lindsay's point of view that shed a negative light on Grace, who later turned out to be the perpetrator.

    On to the rest of the episode:

    I liked seeing more of the other characters, mainly Flack, Hawkes and Adam. Adam was so geeky with his adoration for the model and color-coded organization of particles found on the railing.

    Stella's storyline with Frankie captured the heart and soul of Grace's case. The viewer could really feel the depth of manipulation Grace went to when the fired limo driver showed up with flowers, hoping for his job back and getting killed instead. She utilized her knowledge of mental illness to set him up. That was cruel.

    Lindsay and Hawkes both showed their lab skills, and I was very impressed. Although I love Danny and Lindsay together, it's good to show the characters back in their habitat, the Lab! :lol:
     
  6. dutch_treat

    dutch_treat CSI Level Two

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    Voted B+

    I cannot exactly say why, but for some reason this ep kept my attention. I think it was not just because of the cases, which were nice but rather predictable, but more because of the way it was all written. All the dialogues between the various characters sounded so much better than in most of the season 3 episodes so far.

    And I think that Stella's outburst had nothing to do with Lindsay but all with her own emotions. I think she would have snapped at everyone who had only made the slightest suggestion that perhaps there was something wrong with the evidence. She was, at first, just so convinced that this woman had went through something similar to what she went through that she, at that point, was not willing to listen to anyone or anything else. And therefor it was wise of Lindsay to just walk away and not make her more upset than she already was when she noticed she couldn't get through to her at that moment. And when Stella finally agreed that there indeed was something not right with the evidence that was enough of an apology.

    Mac probably let her work the case (while keeping an eye on her) to let her solve some of the issues she admitted she still had.

    Melina did an excellent job. Loved to see how she slowly made us see Stella go from being convinced of someone's innocence to being convinced of that same person's guilt.
     
  7. JDonne

    JDonne CSI Level One

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    Lindsay extricated herself from a single aspect of an ongoing investigation by getting huffy, acting insolent and unprofessional. She brought her own past into the present and allowed it to interfere with her work as an investigator. I would say that is also a case of losing one's objectivity. If Lindsay is allowed the leeway of her past clouding and hindering her professional conduct, I again ask why Stella is not allowed the same courtesy.

    I'm sure none of the other CSI's, Lindsay included, have ever pursued the wrong suspect, oh, wait they have. Whatever reason, be it clouded objectivity or a gut feeling, every member of that team has at one point or another set their teeth into the innocent.
     
  8. Radical618

    Radical618 Coroner

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    I think that there was no "spoken" apology because in the end Linds did go back and spoke to the mother. I guess thats where the apology was kind of noted.

    As for between Linds and Stell- I personally think it was Stella who was a bit unprofessional for lashing out in that situation. I thought that there would be a apology in the last minutes of the eppy, but maybe we're supposed to assume that there was an apology, because it's very like Stell to apologize.
     
  9. JDonne

    JDonne CSI Level One

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    If Lindsay doing her job at episode's end is the criteria for an unspoken apology for her childish outburst then Stella finding an unbiased persepctive is in the same vein and therefore following that logic is also an apology.

    In my statement on the episode I didn't comment on Stella's professionalism, I was simply commenting on the level of bias, Lindsay's behaviour is filled with caveats and implications, read excuses, whereas Stella's behaviour is seen as simply wrong.
     
  10. Partly

    Partly Hit and Run

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    As for Mac letting Stella work the case:

    I don't see that he had much of a choice. Stella needed to prove that she would be able to go beyond her emotional stake in the case and follow the evidence. It's a necessary risk or she could never be trusted to work on any domestic abuse case -- or any case where a woman was attacked by a man. This was a test -- could Stella come to the factual conclusion despite what happened and her natural tendency to identify with the woman in the case.

    Re-watching the episode, I'm also struck by the fact that Mac didn't tell Stella not to be emotionally involved as much as he told her to base her conclusions on fact rather than that emotion. His exact words were "It's hard to separate yourself emotionally, but in the end, it always comes down to the evidence." After that Stella says "I didn't forget that, Mac" but that she has no choice but to be emotionally involved. It's not about not being emotionally involved, it's about being able acknowledge those emotions without letting them dictate your conclusions.

    As for the argument between Stella and Lindsey:

    It was just a disagreement, albeit an emotional one on Stella's part. What has to be remembered is that they were discussing *theories* about the actions that could have produced the evidence they found. They were on different sides. Lindsey, as is often the case, takes an opposite theory and pushes forward with it. I like that Stella, just before Lindsey walks off, tells her "The only two people who know exactly what happened in that room are dead, Lindsey. It's our job to collect the evidence and examine it and the sooner we do that, the sooner we can all move on." I appreciate that Lindsey realized Stella was not open to theorizing at this point and leaves rather than continuing to argue.

    I also love that Lindsey -- who's not known for her ability to be tactful or subtle (a trait I happen to love about her character) -- stops being openly confrontational with Stella. Instead of pushing forward theories of why Stella is wrong, she starts focusing on the evidence. When she, Stella and Hawkes are at the crime scene Lindsey works the evidence rather than posits her own theories as to what led up to the evidence. This allows Stella to re-examine her theory rather than pushing her into a position of having to simply defend it. This shows me an emotional maturity in Lindsey that I haven't really seen before -- the ability to not say "I'm right" even if she is. This is the point that she puts Stella's emotional needs before her own, something that I haven't seen in the character before.

    The fact that *Lindsey* doesn't demand an apology from Stella also demonstrates that she is growing as a character. After all, she herself has often argued for theories that have ended up being wrong. There's no reason -- outside of ego -- to have someone say "You were so right and I was so wrong". Lindsey was able to walk away and not take Stella's disagreement personally -- something that I'm not sure Lindsey would have been able to do last season.
     
  11. Guest

    Guest Guest

    I didn't read that much into the disagreement between the women. Stella was having a tough time, and she was getting snappy. An apology would have been nice, but I'm willing to accept that it happened ofscreen. Stella seems like the kind of person who'd apologize for snapping, even if it was excusable, though I'd accept that many other characters might not apologize because the less it's talked about, the easier it is to pretend it never happened.

    I didn't really see a paralell between this and lindsay's mother issues last week, so no comment there.
     
  12. audrina

    audrina Police Officer

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    For all we know, in the Stella/Lindsay issue or Danny/Lindsay issue, there were apologies ... just offscreen. WE don't see every second of their lives. Maybe Stella caught Lindsay in the bathroom and said sorry ...Maybe Lindsay apologized to Danny over some lab work, we just don't know.
     
  13. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

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    I think it might be time for a 'Bring Back Scagnetti' thread! We need us some Detective Prada! :lol: :D

    I agree completely with those saying Lindsay was just as "unprofessional" as Stella in "Oedipus Hex." And it's not like Stella sat back and watched Lindsay get slapped around like Lindsay did Danny. I guess there might be more sympathy for Stella because we know what happened to her, whereas we don't with Lindsay, but Lindsay certainly took out her issues on Danny as much as Stella did on her.
     

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