Grade "Hammer Down"

[Desertwind]

I loved this episode I'm basically a CSI/Vegas fans but these crossovers are fantastic The camraderie between Mac and Ray wonderful, how in tune they were. Great cast Stella, the guys and the cute couple Danny and Lindsay, ]BTW how is is that their allowed to work together now that they're married?] all so tight and helping out find this disgusting human trafficking scum bags. How Mac talked Ray into taking a gun and his comments about guns sounded like something Grissom would say. The scene where Mac and Ray were chasing him Mac running across the tops ot the cars, and Ray on his motorcycle.. intense and suspensful. what a creep show, and he still wouldn't say who or how this was happening. Good episode. :bolian:A+

 

[Curiosity]

Grade = C (a generous one)


Considering the “special” nature of this episode, I tried to look at it from two perspectives – first, as a regular CSI:NY viewer/fan and second, as someone not very familiar with the series. In both cases, it was a disappointing episode.


Even though the trafficking storyline has been done before, the writers brought some interesting elements to it with the big rig tie-in and also going beyond the more familiar prostitution scenario to include organ harvesting and surrogate scenarios. They did a reasonably good job portraying the horrors of these crimes, and the truck driver was creepily evil.


I thought the interaction between Mac and Langston also was handled reasonably well. Some of the dialogue seemed a bit stilted at times, but some awkwardness is to be expected considering the two previously hadn’t met. Nice timely reference to Veterans Day.


The rest of the character work was noticeably weak, however. Somehow they managed to take some of the more dynamic, interesting characters in the franchise and make them seem bland and flat. While the writers did get in a reference to Mac’s military career and the D/L marriage, some of the qualities and traits which normally make these characters distinctive and interesting just weren’t very evident – Mac’s intensity, Stella’s passion, Danny’s energy, Flack’s snark, Adam’s quirkiness….what happened to the characters we normally see?


And I don’t understand some of the other character choices made. While I like Hawkes and was glad to see him get a significant storyline last week, I don’t consider him as one of the signature, defining characters of the series and was sort of puzzled by his relative prominence in this episode. Maybe they wanted to play up the connection between his medical background and the organ harvesting scenario, but Hawkes’ role was just one more thing that felt off. It would’ve made more sense to me if Stella (who’s actually a detective) would’ve been the one chasing after the perp with Flack. And I think the interrogation scene also would’ve been more reflective of the actual series if one of the stronger interrogation pairings like Flack/Danny or Mac/Flack had been used to play off each other.



The bottom line is that this didn’t seem like a "representative" episode of CSI: NY. If the goal was simply to promote and/or raise Langston’s profile across the franchise, the results were mixed from my perspective. I like Langston well enough but probably but not enough to watch him on CSI original every week. If the idea also was to produce an episode that would get infrequent viewers interested in CSI:NY and its characters, it also seemed to miss the mark. But the real proof will be in whether the increased ratings for this episode are sustainable over time.


In any case, when they’re doing a very special episode like this one with the extra promotion and hype, I guess I expect to see their A game. And this wasn’t it (IMHO, of course).


Next week’s episode looks promising, though, so I’m looking forward to getting back to regular (but improved) CSI:NY.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

The rest of the character work was noticeably weak, however. Somehow they managed to take some of the more dynamic, interesting characters in the franchise and make them seem bland and flat. While the writers did get in a reference to Mac’s military career and the D/L marriage, some of the qualities and traits which normally make these characters distinctive and interesting just weren’t very evident – Mac’s intensity, Stella’s passion, Danny’s energy, Flack’s snark, Adam’s quirkiness….what happened to the characters we normally see?

I think Flack's snark has been off lately since Angell died, so I can see why they have him quiet and somber and not much humor, though it was cute when he said he got his "Mac on" LOL! And as for Adam's quirkiness, I think it was just the gravity of the situation that was getting to the team that they were dealing with organ harvesting and that stuff, I mean, there are times for cute and quirkiness and there are times to be serious about the work, and this just happens to be one of those times when the humor and funny-ness of Adam's character needed to be toned down a bit. I can understand why considering the storyline.

And I think the interrogation scene also would’ve been more reflective of the actual series if one of the stronger interrogation pairings like Flack/Danny or Mac/Flack had been used to play off each other.

I think having Hawkes do the interrogation in this scene had more meaning than if it was Danny or Mac, if it was those two, it was just be another simple interrogation against a suspect, but with Hawkes's background as a doctor and the suspect being a doctor as well, there is more meaning and connection especially behind Hawkes's words about betraying the hippocratic oath and do no harm. If it was Mac or Danny saying those words, it would have fallen flat because they aren't doctors and there isn't a connection to the suspect other than he's just some criminal doing the wrong thing. So I think in this case, having Hawkes in the interrogation room was a good choice.

 

[talkingtocactus]

The bottom line is that this didn’t seem like a "representative" episode of CSI: NY.

yeah, i thought that too, i think if i was a casual viewer i would get nothing useful from that ep at all!

 

[Robin]

Thought this episode was pretty good. It went pretty fast. The subject matter kept me very uncomfortable the entire time. The thought of people being basically stolen and used for human harvesting and other things horrifies me.

I thought Langston and Mac worked well together.

I wondered how Danny got into the cab of the semi. I saw the ladder next to it and wondered if he would have been able to climb the ladder and jump down into the cab. I also wonder how he got out.

I'm not going to make any real effort to see the other parts of the story.

 

[Curiosity]

I think Flack's snark has been off lately since Angell died, so I can see why they have him quiet and somber and not much humor, though it was cute when he said he got his "Mac on" LOL!

Yes, Flack's been more low key than usual so far this season, but they've still managed to work some snark into a few of the preceding episodes. I did like the getting his "Mac on" and "spidey-senses" banter, though -- one of the few times a bit of humor came through.

And as for Adam's quirkiness, I think it was just the gravity of the situation that was getting to the team that they were dealing with organ harvesting and that stuff, I mean, there are times for cute and quirkiness and there are times to be serious about the work, and this just happens to be one of those times when the humor and funny-ness of Adam's character needed to be toned down a bit. I can understand why considering the storyline.

It was definitely a serious subject, but the writers have the characters dealing with some pretty bleak scenarios quite often and still manage to bring out their distinctive personality traits. Off the top of my head, "Admissions" from season four is one of the better written and acted NY episodes in which the characters deal with a serious, tragic case while still having some strong character moments, including a few lighter ones.

I think having Hawkes do the interrogation in this scene had more meaning than if it was Danny or Mac, if it was those two, it was just be another simple interrogation against a suspect, but with Hawkes's background as a doctor and the suspect being a doctor as well, there is more meaning and connection especially behind Hawkes's words about betraying the hippocratic oath and do no harm.

Yeah, I get what the writers were trying to do, it just didn't strike me as being particularly powerful or necessary for the case. And if they wanted to include an interrogation scene, they simply could've crafted something that would involve Danny/Flack or Mac/Flack, which are two of the pairings that play off each other best in those situations. Likewise, for the chase scene, I would've preferred to see the strong female character, who holds her own with the men (even when wearing heels) go after the perp, as opposed to the former ME who typically doesn't do chases and didn't even seem to have a gun.

yeah, i thought that too, i think if i was a casual viewer i would get nothing useful from that ep at all!

Yes, for a special episode like this one where many new or more casual viewers could be watching, I would've liked to see some stronger character moments for the NY crew. It'll be interesting to see if this episode generated enough interest to bring some of those additional viewers back next week and beyond.

 

[Carolyn318]

THIS EPISODE.
I'm giving this episode an A-. Why an A-? Because this was the best episode in the trilogy. That's all I have to say on this episode. I have more to say about the trilogy below.

THE TRILOGY.
The trilogy as a whole gets a C-. This crossover just did NOT live up to past crossovers. The season 4 CSI: Miami episode "Felony Flight" and the season 2 CSI: NY episode "Manhattan Manhunt" made a way better "start the story on one show and end the story on another show" crossover. The pilot episode for CSI: Miami [Vegas CSI season 2 episode "Cross-Jurisdictions"] and the pilot episode for CSI: NY [CSI: Miami season 2 episode "MIA/NYC non-stop"] were better crossovers. One more thing, I wish this had been a 4 part crossover. Started this story in the last 10 minutes of Vegas CSI's November 5th episode and concluded it on the Nov. 12th Vegas CSI episode. The way they did it, it felt more like the story started in Miami and Vegas just happened to get involved thanks to the evidence.

 

[Maya316]

Originally Posted by *lisasimpson*:

Mac's interaction, though, is the one I found most interesting because it was really just one more thing to point out how outside-the-loop NY seems to be when it comes to the other labs. There's not as much of a link between them, at least as far as this episode is concerned.

how so? i don't disagree, i'm just curious.

I guess the only way I can best explain it is the way this episode didn't really feel like a crossover -- especially when compared to Miami's version. In Miami, Ray (to my eyes) felt more included by the other characters; partly reflected in Horatio's welcoming manner, further emphasized in the way almost every character got to talk to or about him (Walter, the new ME, Calleigh, H himself), and in the way Ray was actually helping out in the lab, etc. It felt like a crossover: references directly made to the Las Vegas team, to Ray's book, stuff you'd actually see on the Vegas show. It felt like there was a link there, one that was there before Ray arrived.

NY by comparison came across as much more exclusive. No one other than Mac really talked to Ray or discussed him, or asked anything about Las Vegas and how things are done there (and it's not like they needed to have met others from the Vegas team in order to do this...the first time NY crossed with Miami, I think Horatio and Mac spent a full three minutes in total just comparing how evidence-gathering practices were different between Miami and NY). Or anything about Miami, for that matter. Ray didn't help out much until that final SWAT scene. It really seemed like Ray could've been anyone, there was nothing I remember making it very obvious that he was from the Vegas show. All that was pretty much a direct parallel of Mac's more reserved interaction with Ray. On the other hand, Ray was definitely more impacted by his experiences in NY than by the ones in Miami; just like he seemed to connect with Mac on a deeper level than he did with Horatio. I dunno, this all made more sense in my head

Originally Posted by Curiosity:

Originally Posted by *lisasimpson*
yeah, i thought that too, i think if i was a casual viewer i would get nothing useful from that ep at all!

Yes, for a special episode like this one where many new or more casual viewers could be watching, I would've liked to see some stronger character moments for the NY crew. It'll be interesting to see if this episode generated enough interest to bring some of those additional viewers back next week and beyond.

I'm curious about this too. Part of my enjoyment of "Hammer Down", I think, is that a few of the more superficial elements that initially drew me to the show seemed to be out in full force: interesting case, NYC landmarks, brighter lighting (made me wonder where the darker lighting of S1 had gone when I first started watching -- and was it just me, or was the lighting in "Hammer Down" brighter than usual?). Character-wise, I was initially drawn to the show by Flack, Lindsay, and Adam (dammit, he was so much like cool early!Greg!), and while they had okay moments, none of them were at their very best on Wednesday. But I don't know if main-character moments are the strongest draw to a procedural show, at least when compared to the superficial elements -- especially if one is trying to draw viewers with only a single episode. Even Flack, Lindsay and Adam took time to draw me to the show, because characters on a TV show you've just started to watch have to grow on you; no matter how much they've impressed you in the first episode.

 

[talkingtocactus]

^ yeah, i get exactly what you mean about the differences between the NY section and the miami section, i think that's true as well, the miami bit definitely felt more crossovery, in that sense. but i also thought langston 'bonded' better with mac than H. strange how these things pan out!

and i do see what you mean as well, there wasn't anything like as much team interaction on the NY section, although there were hints, it was definitely a bit more pared down than it usually is. as for the brighter lights tho, well i guess that's been going on since season 2!!

 

[lyric]

I couldn't pin Casey Steele until now; Kubrick from Supernatural!

With that out of the way...

- Ok, I thought there was something more gross and crazy than a little room in the Semi. Like, perhaps a dead body like Danny and Lindsays reactions conveyed.

I'm with you here.

- Flack, Nice slide!

Oh, yeah!

I'm afraid I've grown a tad inured, and really, it's hard to feel much sympathy when the victim had a golden opportunity to escape her captor in Miami. You know, when she was in the magical fiefdom of the mighty HoCaine and rebuffed Calleigh's obvious suspicion and concern with a healthy dose of snot-nose.

I actually thought Calleigh should have picked on that, but as you said, "for the convenience and contrivance of the plot, she chose not to."

There was one thing that did stood out for me, it happened with both Miami and NY, especially in the action scenes and gunfights, it becomes quite clear that the Vegas CSIs are no sharpshooters, I mean sure they can all hold a gun, but none of them look natural using them, it just seem to emphasize more of the fact that the Vegas CSIs are scientists first, while in both NY and Miami, it wouldn't be any shock to see any of their CSIs tackling down suspects, go on raids, or shoot guns like they're born to. If anything it's moments like this that shows the two spin-offs difference with their original sister show, the Miami and NY CSIs are detectives as well as scientists and never seem to miss a beat when it comes to taking down bad guys.

That's an interesting point.


There were a few things that bothered me:

- The interrogation of the female prisoner on the outside.

- Mac and Ray being the ones finding the room where the girl was being held. I understand the point behind it show-wise, but Flack and another policeman just passed a closed door without checking what's behind it?!

- Chasing Steele in the scrap yard. Again, Mac and Ray. Again, I understand the point behind it show-wise, but with so many cops there, no one else joined the chase?


I'm new to the series, and so I found the Hawks and Flack interrogation discussion interesting. I find it hard to believe that Dr. Fuller was clueless as to how the organs were obtained, so Hawks going at him... I don't know. Fuller knew why Flack was at the OR. And watching Flack standing there, knowing that he just allowed a crime to continue (and really, would he have chosen the alternative?), was much more powerful, in my opinion, than Hawks in the interrogation room.


Oh, and the last scene, showing the truck heading to Las Vegas, was scary.

 

[ladyhunter]

I finally got a chance to watch this part of the crossover.

I thought it was boring. Well not so much boring, but it lacked... zip, zing, zest or what have you.

The characters felt flat. There was no spark to anyone, not even Adam.
Yea, I understand as people have said that his quirkyness was put on hold due to the heavy subject matter, but I have to say that is his personality.
And in Yahrzeit although he wasn't very zany, he did show some of his quirkyness. I guess that is just one of the things that turned me off of this episode.

Another was Dr. Hawkes. I'm getting to like Sheldon more and more but even his interrogation of the doctor with the organs was somehow flat. He kept looking at the wall, what was that about??? I felt they wanted to give the audience some retrospective, in that Sheldon himself was a former doctor but I thought he was a bit over the top in his interrogation.

The chase scene with Mac and Ray. I mean... come on. Once more I know that they are trying to get more people to watch all three shows, but come on.... NY seems to be getting more and more action-packed which is becoming more and more of a turn off. :wtf:

I give it a C.

 

[Bonasera-Taylor]

cant wait to see all of this ep

 

[Kit4na]

I kinda like the crossover. Laurence Fishburne really has a very strong onscreen presence, I like it! I never was a fan of CSI LV but hey, maybe i'll try it out sometime again

Saw them filming the helicopter scene when I was in New York. Was a pretty nice surprise. I was going to take an helicopter tour, while we were watching the security info video, I looked outside and saw Gary Sinise BEST HOLIDAY EVER!

http://s104.photobucket.com/albums/m174/Kit4na/csi/?action=view&current=IMG_1264.jpg

 

[talkingtocactus]

this is (a) a little late and (b) a little ot, as it relates to the vegas ep, but just to say i like the concluding part of the xover a lot more than the other two eps, although it seemed to stand alone, which makes me wonder why they did a xover at all!

i liked how everyone communicates by text: haven't mac or horatio heard of picking up the phone or emailing?! the bit when langston texted all the girls was nice, it was the best bit of the whole three i think.

i'm an NY fan in general but i think they had the hardest bit of this story, the middle where it's hard to hook anyone or close anything, i hope it goes back to normal next week!

 

[MakeTracksCowboy]

gave the ep a B b/c it was dull. the crossover was cool and all but it was to me outrageously dull.

i liked how everyone got screentime it wasn't just the "Leaders" getting the attention.

Langston and Mac are cool together, i'd like to see them work together again.

ok seriously the writers need to cool it with the Danny/Lindsay, we very well get it that they are married THERE IS NO NEED TO BE REMINDED EVERY FREAKIN EPISODE!!!! that got me mad that in a crossover or "special episode" a scene like that had to go down.

the chase scene with Flack and Hawkes was awesome. poor Flack got hurt but the scene is now one of fave scenes from the show.

Hawkes kicked ass with his interrogation. i liked how the subject of the doctor not following the oat totally got under his skin. Flack replying with Mr. instead of Dr. was so good.

not bad too bad could have been better. it wasn't worth the hype