Discussion in 'CSI: Miami' started by FieldMouse, Jan 15, 2011.
I agree! One of these days, H is going to get caught, then he's going to lose everything!
IMO, he's doing it for one reason, and they showed it in the 200th episode. H is taking plights against women seriously, even violently because of what happened to Marisol. He couldn't save her but by god, he's going to save as many other abused and battered women as he can, the laws be damned.
Agree with several others here, they need to bring the old H back. When they did this to Jack Malone's character on Without A Trace, it helped send the series into a pit it never got out of.
I agree is there no IAB ? Because H is just doing what he want to do it was kool like the first episode but come on now H is crossing that thin line.....I see why rick was allawys on H ! !
I went to my tivo before the taping ended and unfortunately saw the last 5 or so minutes of the end of the program, which seemed to sum up the entire episode for me (making me wonder if I should even watch it from the beginning), but that's another kettle of fish for me to paddle through.
However, like everyone else I was SHOCKED at seeing Horatio's behavior towards the perp, especially since he asked for a lawyer too- I mean to lock the door, close the blinds and then decide to supposedly do one's *own brand of justice* ie; police brutality against someone who should have been left alone? That's despicable and not the Horatio that I knew and cared for from years earlier! It goes without saying that he is risking his badge, his own freedom and the jobs of his team (a team that he used to see as his family) as well as his own lab, over issues that are beginning to border on the irrational. Horatio must KNOW that he can't save every woman or every child or victim in distress, so this walk down the dark side is distressing and TPTB needs to know that it is not acceptable to many that watch the show.
If, as the poster I quoted above, thinks this has to do with Marisol, they may be right- it could be about Speed too (he was helpless to save HIM when he was shot, too). However, they explained that Speed wasn't cleaning his gun and that it jammed so partially as much as I adore Speed (and wish he'd come back somehow- he'd be the one to tell him that Horatio is not the "Horatio" that he admired and respected, btw), it was Speed's own negligence that got him shot.
Now, this is also true with Marisol. For those who do not remember, Horatio told her that she needed a guard by her side at ALL times, for protection while he was engaged in this conflict with the Mala Noche. He even told the policeman with her not to let her out of his sight. Now assuming that there would be a rotation of protection, as well as a woman officer that Marisol would have had with her if she needed to take a restroom break etc; Marisol HAD her protection- but what did SHE do? She told her guard that she didn't need them and it was in that moment that the Mala Noche struck.
One can only imagine if a guard on the lookout had been with her and Eric that she might have avoided being shot- so it's really Marisol's own fault that she didn't do what her husband had asked her to do. So for Horatio to become a rogue cop because of her death seems like a very poor excuse. But can H even think that rationally now in the emotional state he is in?
Perhaps this behavior is going to lead to something- a mental breakdown for Horatio? A new IAB officer or someone higher up that is going to step in and stop him before he kills someone in custody? Something needs to be done- Horatio is not himself and I don't like this "vulgar, violent self" that is being presented to us.
I want the principled, integrity minded Horatio back. I don't mind if he has to go through therapy and we see that in progress on the series, if that is what it takes to get things back on track.
Also, this abuse of power over men in custody is getting old and shopworn... I'm with Jag Lady- where IS Rick when you REALLY NEED HIM?
Ruby, agree with you 100%. And I know some people might tired of the Without A Trace but the comparsions fit.
Jack Malone went from being someone you admired to a bully with a badge who beat and tortured suspects without caring about the consquences it could do to himself, his team or the case at hand. It made the series a joke in the last two seasons.
And just like Jack Malone, there is no one to keep H in check. Not since the absurd storyline that took Stetler out of the picture.
Furthermore,some of these suspects are facing very serious charges like the guy in tonight's episode who beat his girlfriend. You think they're going to keep their mouths shut about H beating the crap out of them or torturing them? And unless his lawyer's blind, I'm sure he/she is going to notice the workover job it looks like he's going to get.
I sure hope the writers aren't thinking we're going to admire this new H. A man who abuses his badge and risks the careers of everyone he works with is not someone I admire
H should take note of what happened to Reggie Mastow in Power Trip. http://www.csifiles.com/reviews/csi/power_trip.shtml Because he's well on his way to heading down that road.
Nice tie, Tom!
(Girls are fighting)
Ryan: Oh My God! That's the sexiest, scariest thing I've ever seen.
Walter: hahaha, I told you!
LOL Ryan, you shouldn't have tried to break up the fight. Someone should have poured some cold water on them to break up the fight lol.
Is it really necessary to see the flashbacks of the vic puking?
Loved that Dave and Travers were back.
"Derby-huh?" LOL, my question exactly, Walter!
Loved Ryan's purple shirt.
Ugh split screens again.
The lab girl's "unhs" when she was hitting the dummy sounded really weird to me lol.
Since there was domestic abuse to the vic, I'm surprised we didn't get a Nick Townsend reference, especially since Natalia was on the case.
Haha, I just realized the guy who played Jake in this episode is Terry from True Blood.
Love the scene with Tom, Dave, Ryan, Natalia and Walter watching the derby match.
That ending with Horatio was just like the ending in "To Catch A Predator" or whatever that episode was called. The writers have I'm sure heard how much viewers hated the scene in the predator episode, so why are they going to that place again?
I'm agreeing with you redanemone, Natalia has really shown some nice development this season, mainly cause not all the good female-CSI storylines are going to Calleigh.
Anyways, this episode was great!!!....until that last scene :shifty: Honestly, Horatio needs to cool it off, it's getting to the point where he's hitting people for no real reason (eg. Throwing that patrol officer out the window in On The Hook...what was the point of that?!?!)
And remembering Happy Birthday, maybe Natalia could be the one to go toe-to-toe with this new dark Horatio? Hmmm...
Okie dokey. I'm gonna try to avoid commenting on the last minute of the episode because I really enjoyed the rest.
This was the first episode in a long time that I actually felt for the guest characters, especially Deb. She was a tough cookie but it was very obvious how saddened she was by Connie's death.
I liked that it was Lucy who killed her opposed to the abusive boyfriend, or the competitive teammates. Lucy had major dependancy issues, but I prefer the "I did it because I loved her" rather than it being out of pure anger or jealousy (we get that too often). She was a very believable character, too, which I also liked. Her obvious lack of "grittiness" & schoolgirl appearance was perfect for the role...nice casting job there.
Some hysterical moments in this one, too.
Ryan getting punched in the face & yelling "ow" -- the second "ow" was like, "damn that really hurt!" :lol:
Miami Spice showing her ass & Ryan saying "that's not very professional" :lol: He's such a doll, I love him.
Thank you Walter for telling that guy to shut up. His rambling in that fight scene made me want to pull my hair out!
Testing the elbow pads scene -- loved it. The grunting ... Eric coming in laughing/teasing....I so enjoy seeing the CSI's have fun with thier work. And Natalia Balboa is pure awesomeness.
Seeing (most) of the team hanging out at the end was also a nice treat. It makes me very happy to see TPTB making such an effort to show them as friends & true teammates.
I couldn't have said it better. Agree 200%.
Wow I am bummed that we didn't get the episode due to the Goldies.:borg: Sounds like Horatio is on his way to a melting pot. I am worried about him sinking deeper and deeper. I was thinking of the Jack Malone thing too from Without a Trace. Regardless of what H's reasons are for his behaviour, they need an IAB to intervene. I said it before, but we need Rick Stetler or someone like him to help H get a grip. H is my fav character and I don't want him to challenge his own integrity and credibility.
On a different note, if I may, since we didn't get the episode, I watched DVDs of Season One, Spring Break and the perp who bit the girls and sexually assaulted them was none other than Wes Ramsey who plays Dave Benton. Glad his character in this season is nice. LOL I just thought I would mention that episode.
Thanks folks for sharing the lost episode I missed. Sounds like a good one too. Is there a new episode next week or a repeat?
You know, I've really been liking the last few episodes - nice team-oriented stuff. Just haven't had time to comment b/c of RL and all....
Anyhow I too REALY loved this show up until the last three minutes (more on that later...)
Ryan - He's hilarious! I love him! :drool: He's so different from the rookie he was back in Season 3 - you can really see the character development and I really love seeing him with Walter - they have a great repore (spelling?)
Natalia - Oh yea, she's AWESOME! To be honest, I didn't like her that much in Season 4, but she too has really come into her own. :thumbsup: Unlike Horatio, she can see clearly when it comes to separating the case and her own personal issues (you could see the pain on her face when she realized domestic violence may've been involved, but she didn't go off the deep end, which I was refreshed to see - we don't always need a direct reference to Nick b/c Eva LaRue is so good at conveying those emotions through her acting. To me, Natalia is what Calleigh was in Seasons 1-4, the Calleigh I really miss. It kind of bothers me that she's being referred to as H's "right hand woman" b/c Cal outranks her and to me used to be a fantastic character like Nat, but TPTB screwed up along the way and I just don't see Cal having any interaction w/H anymore.
Calleigh: Does anyone know if EP had her baby yet? I actually do miss Calleigh - I think that it was the bad storylines she was given that ruined her character. The storyarches for her in Seasons 1-4 made her endearing and if they get back to that I think there's a chance to save her character. However, with such limited screen time, Cal is pretty much out of the team loop, which I personally don't like. In some ways, I wish they would've just had Cal take a leave of absense b/c of a family issue - at least that would give some character depth, show some concern for Calleigh and explain her limited screen time. I still like Cal, unlike many here, and hope they do her more justice when EP can return.
Delko: I liked him in this episode - it's nice to see him w/out too much drama. :bolian: I still don't really like the H/Eric dynamic that much (especially w/the way H is going), but I'm glad Eric wasn't involved in that last scene.
Tom: I ADORE Tom! He's so quirky - it's really good "comic relief" at times :lol: At first I wasn't so sure about him, but he really brings a quirky twist that Miami needs!
Frank: I love it when he says "dumbass"! :guffaw:
Walter: His character is just very enjoyable - a great "buddy" for Ryan, too.
In general, I've really loved the team interaction this season. :thumbsup: That scene w/ (most) of the team at the end was great - good job by TPTB on that one! I even enjoyed Delko and Natalia w/the elbow pads - the conversations feel very "real" and not forced/scripted or stilted , which is also refreshing.
Now to the dreaded HORATIO: :shifty:
To sum up my opinon: :wtf: :brickwall:
Does anyone remember in Season 3, when Rick Stetler was trying to pin Horatio for police brutality when he restrained that guy on the roof? (I think the episode was "After the Fall). I hated Stetler b/c it seemed like he was on a witch hunt and we as an audience knew H wasn't showing brutal force (he was restraining a guy going for his weapon.) (Now I actually miss Stetler and I hated the way his exit was "explained" :shifty
Does anyone remember how Calleigh FOUGHT to EXHONORATE Horatio - she spoke to him privately, called him out on what was going on, but never questioned his integrity. She knew that Horatio would NEVER do something to hurt the team or his badge.
Now flash forward seven years - Horatio has, WITH INTENT, beaten up at least two people this season, not to mention some of the people he's beaten or killed in "self defense" in recent seasons. :wtf: This is NOT Horatio - not the one with integrity and caring about his team more than himself. :shifty:
Granted, H has "developed, changed and been through a lot" since Season 3. But the show still seems to peg him as a "HERO" - HE'S NOT ANYMORE. They don't want consequences for him. To be honest, if H was acting like this and there were major ramifications, I wouldn't care. Every person has to go through a "dark period" I suppose, some more than others. But to make H's actions seem "justified" or "heroic" is ASSANINE! :scream:
THe last scene actually horrified me b/c there was a chance this guy was telling the TRUTH!! She may've fallen off his bike - she was a tough chick and it's possible. Now, I'm not saying it's likely, I'm just saying the ACTOR did a nice job of convincing me that it POSSIBLY may not have been abuse. (Which I usually don't get on Miami - usually I can smell an abuser right away on this show - this one actually wasn't as clear cut.)
Again, I think unless there are consequences for Horatio, or he has a mental breakdown, this is all STUPID, POINTLESS AND plain PROMOTING POLICE BRUTALITY. It's happened more than once, and the fans are TIRED OF IT. :brickwall: This doesn't show H's heroism, it shows his SELFISHNESS - he doesn't care about anyone but himself b/c he's doing this to act out on his own feelings. He tells victims they can't inflict justice, but he's become a HYPOCRITE . He doesn't think of consequences, and him beating up that guy won't necessarily stop him from doing it again, and it may stop H from stopping more bad guys b/c he could lose his badge!! :scream:
I like what someone else said about Natalia calling him out on all this - I could see that.
No way Eric would say anything b/c he's becoming the next "Horatio" - he's following in H's footsteps and being brutal himself. I think if Speed were still here he'd have a better perspective and call both of them out. Eric is too emotionally involved w/H to see clearly about his actions.
I used to think Calleigh would be the one to call Horatio out on his crazy behavior (since she was always comfortable talking to him in Seasons 1-4. See my previous reference to "After the Fall"). But that's highly unlikely. It's also unfortunate b/c she is the ONLY CHARACTER LEFT that knew H wayyy before he became like this and WITNESSED his transformation. Even Nat didn't know what he was really like prior to Marisol. Cal isn't emotionally involved w/H, so she would logically be the one to see things a bit more clearly/rationally - I'd love to see an angry/emotionally charged scene between her and H about all this (and how he's risking the team and his own job) as opposed to the (very rare) cold encounters they've had over the past three years.
Let's step it up! At the end of the day, Cal has seniority and is the "second in command" - no matter what other characters are "doing" on the show - and it really should be her responsibility to call H out on this.
This season has been so great - it's really ashame that TPTB are ruining it w/little scenes like this one w/Horatio. Again, it's more the fact that there are no consequences that irks me. I really think it all goes wayyy beyond Marisol. It goes back to the murder of Horatio's mother, which has never been spoken of since Season 4. That's why he always helps "damsels in distress" - even Marisol. He just can't handle everything that's compounded his mother's death, and his helplessness to stop his abusive dad from killing her. Bring that storyline back, and maybe I'll buy all this "badass Horatio" crap.
So, in nutshell, AWESOME episode minus the last three minutes. (And AWESOME season so far, aside from this Horatio bad-ass crap. )
Oh, I really wanted to high five Walter for making that guy shut up. That guy's voice was very irritating. He almost sounded like an autioneer lol.
I agree that its hilarious when Frank calls someone "dumbass"... its like Bobby on Supernatural saying "idjit". Love it!
thought this was a 'meh' episode... I don't think they opening portrayed the sport as being violent...if anything they seemed to have no clue what they were doing.
I liked Natalia in the DNA lab.
Not missing Calleigh all that much either, and I know a lot of calleigh fans are going to hate on me but I really can't look at her with all that plastic surgery...she can barely move her mouth and it makes her hard to understand and also read.
I can't stand what they're doing to Horatio!
I thought it was a decent episode. The roller derby scenes were really good and so was the case, but it dig bog down a little toward the end.
Speaking of the end and the recent changes in Horatio, I really hope the producers simply aren't setting us up for another IA investigation of police brutality that will result in Horatio's being suspended or losing his job for the season finale. I'd love to see this change in personality being a result of Horatio's having a nervous breakdown or some other mental disorder.
Anything good about the episode was ruined by the last part. I'm not sure why TPTB are turning Horatio into a thug, but I suppose we'll find out soon enough, if there is any reason other than some sort of ratings grab... Of course, they could be turning the show into a much darker drama in which they chronicle Horatio's descent into madness... But give me a break! Horatio knew Marisol for all of a few months before he married her (seemed more out of pity for someone he thought was dying than some well thought out "Let's spend our lives together because we have so much in common" thing). I mean, Eric was the only thing they had in common. And she died several seasons ago. Of course, Jerry Bruckheimer seems to like hooking up older guys with women young enough to be their daughters (*cough*grissomand sara*cough*), so maybe it's just the way JB's mind works. Sorry to ramble, but this whole "H becomes what he hates most" scenario just isn't working for me, at least not the way they're presenting it. Either have him do this every episode (more believable) or find a different scenario to keep the show from becoming stale (probably what they're worrying about).
Not a very good episode, IMO. Flimsy plot, and they didn't really camp up the rollergirl stereotype like I assumed they would. Even the girls' names were just kinda so-so. I did think it was good to give NBV the lead on this one. CD would have come as too arrogant and condescending. And bad-cop Caine is getting really old really fast. It doesn't matter if he is looking out for women in distress or not. For most of the show's run, he has been above all the screwups that his subordinates have made. Now he is the poster child for bad behavior.
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