Episode 10x11 - 'Crowned' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS***

Grade

  • A+

    Votes: 4 12.9%

  • A

    Votes: 9 29.0%

  • B+

    Votes: 10 32.3%

  • B

    Votes: 4 12.9%

  • C+

    Votes: 3 9.7%

  • C

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • D

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • F

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • Total voters
    31
bgnogan said:
Well said. Horatio is my favorite character, but the writers are doing everything in their power to make me not like him. The thing that really gets me is how emotionless and distant he is now. Natalia was talking to him and he wouldn't even look at her, and he said very little. He rarely interacts with the team or does much of anything except run around with his gun and kill people/abuse suspects. I don't feel any sympathy for him anymore because he isn't even trying to get help. Some say it's character growth but I'd say it's the opposite.


On the other hand, this could make for a great evolution of his character if the writers actually take it somewhere. For instance, I would love to see Horatio face the consequences of his actions, hit rock bottom, get help, see a psychiatrist and then rebuild himself. David Caruso is an excellent actor, so tptb should really give him more to work with.


With that said, I really enjoyed this episode, even though it creeped me out in spots. Beauty pageants for little girls should be against the law imo. It's wrong to put kids through that kind of pressure at such a young age, and very wrong to parade them around in such revealing outfits.


The ending didn't ruin it for me. The guy was garbage and deserved death. I just don't like the fact that they keep showing us how pissed H is like it's some sort of good thing. Like it's okay to take the law into your own hands. He's a hypocrite now, because he condemns others who do the same thing.
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Thanks, bgnogan! I think the problem is more that H's actions overall have been overtly violent and lending themselves towards uncompassionate (yet somehow icy cold) rage, and there's no consequences.

For those who are talking about the team committing similar brutalities, I would say that's part of the reason I haven't liked the Horatio storyline - he is negatively influencing his team. They look up to him, and I don't care how much "training" a person has - if they admire and are loyal to their boss, it becomes "monkey see, monkey do." They might start to think (if they haven't already) that if H can get away w/it, it must be OK and they can too.

Here's a storyline - what if someone like Eric or Ryan got busted for police brutality and faced suspension - what would H do? And what would the rest of the team do?

Personally, I'm more hoping that one of the team calls H out on his callous and cold attitude lately, but he doesn't seem close enough to any of them (even Eric). Or what if IAB called out the team and asked them to report on H's actions over the past few years. Or what if one of the team gets shot/hurt b/c of H's aggressiveness (he could've hurt that hostage in that one ep. when he fired on the suspect...)

Anyway, if they're gonna let H go dark, in my mind they have to have consequences for him and the team. So far there's been ZERO. Ryan is the only one on the team to ever suffer any consequences, and that was for gambling.:rolleyes:

Also, all this talk about how much H has been through in the last 10 years - I would ask, what about all he went through before then? First off, he killed his father to protect his mother when he was a teen (a storyline never explored well enough IMHO). Then he thought his brother had been killed under cover. Plus all the stuff he must've seen in his many years prior to becoming the head of CSI. Yet he was still an amazingly moral character when we met him, even after all that. If these last 10 years have broken him, then we need to see something deeper than this cold, unfeeling, kill all criminals Horatio who never shows any real connection w/his team anymore :(
 
You bring up valid points miamirocks,ones that I agree with . I believe the team's actions and attitudes are a direct reflection of the leader and at times it's not positive. I do hope there is no negative outcome for the team in the form of suspension or one of them injured, but something needs occur to open everyones eyes.
 
Hollyyo said:
Like someone said earlier, if Horatio would have shot him, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The guy had a gun and was running from the police. If Horatio wouldn't have missed, the guy would have died anyway. Granted, he didn't have the gun in his hand when he was hanging from the ledge, but I think it's a little extreme to let the whole episode be ruined because of that one part.
For one, it's a TV show, and they obviously wanted to end that episode with a little bit of shock value.
Also... It's so hard to have sympathy for pedofiles.
I understand the reasoning behind the opinions that he shouldn't have let the guy fall, but I don't really understand why some let it ruin the whole episode. :/
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So why couldn't Horatio have just shot him and that be the end of it? Or him fall over the edge WITHOUT Horatio standing there coldly letting him fall? Or ANYTHING, really??? So long as it DOES NOT degrade the show's integrity or place Horatio into an untenable situation!!! Why must the writers write scenes in a way that is "questionable" (stupid)? I'm tired of it, it's boring, annoying, aggravating, and pointless. :rolleyes:

It isn't about whether Horatio can get away with it, or how many excuses we can throw up to justify it. I don't want to be forced into feeling like I have to defend a pedophile from Horatio :wtf: and THAT is what the writers/directors really need to think about...

To be honest, I don't blame the character(s), nor do I think the problem is anything internal to the show. I think it's 100% completely totally on the writers/directors. They don't seem to care anymore, and at this point, the show seems to be running on fumes. Sorry to say that, but that's the way I see it. (But maybe it's just cause I'm cynical and no longer invested in the universe, and really looking for an excuse to stop watching. :confused: )
 
Here's another problem with H and his crew becoming more brutal towards suspects.
Sooner or later, one of them is going to talk. And when that happens, kiss all the evidence and chances of a conviction goodbye.
Mark my words,sooner or later a really,really bad person is going to walk because H and his crew brought themselves down to the creep's level.
 
I wonder if that will happen with the Navarros; Diego and O'Shay are already gunning for H's badge. I don't want to see Horatio get in too much trouble, but it would be a good turn in that storyline.
 
greatfan said:
fanilowchick said:
Actually, it was Natalia who pushed on his shoulder :)
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If you are speaking of the incident in the car,it was H,but Natalia was there and looked rather uncomfortable.

Last Stand when they catch the mask maker, who Horatio has shot in the shoulder, and Ryan twice presses on the injured shoulder to get him to talk.
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True,that was at the side of the bus while Eric and Horatio looked on.Horatio thanked Ryan for it.
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Thanks. I only saw the end of Last Stand.
 
SOmebody needs to step in and snap these guys back to reality. IMO, it is only a matter of time before one of them gets in a mess they won't be able to clean up.
 
Ninja1088 said:
SOmebody needs to step in and snap these guys back to reality. IMO, it is only a matter of time before one of them gets in a mess they won't be able to clean up.
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I hope the show doesn't turn from 'CSI: Miami' into 'The Shield: Miami', because I'd hate to see it end with Eric in prison, Ryan & Frank dead and Horatio in a desk job. That would be a real shame :shifty:
 
Grissmas, see what your mean, but I don't think the situation is that serious. Alas, I'm sure writers will let it go without further explanations. But I'd prefer this "dark-H-story-line" will have some consequences for Horatio in the first place and the team. Like Miamirocks said
Here's a storyline - what if someone like Eric or Ryan got busted for police brutality and faced suspension - what would H do? And what would the rest of the team do?
Or his vigilante staff puts his team in danger etc...
So this situation will be a turning point for H
 
Grissmas said:
Ninja1088 said:
SOmebody needs to step in and snap these guys back to reality. IMO, it is only a matter of time before one of them gets in a mess they won't be able to clean up.
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I hope the show doesn't turn from 'CSI: Miami' into 'The Shield: Miami', because I'd hate to see it end with Eric in prison, Ryan & Frank dead and Horatio in a desk job. That would be a real shame :shifty:
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If that ever happened, I think a mob of furious viewers would storm CBS headquarters ;)

If we ever do see any consequences over the team's vigilante actions, I hope that Horatio would be forced to face them. Eric, Calleigh, Ryan, and Natalia's conduct has all been called into question in the past; Horatio only once or twice and it was quickly resolved thanks to his team.
 
Wow. All I can say. Never seen the episode (will try online someday) but couldn't resist to take a peak.
Sounds like a really "shaking" episode.

Children beauty pageantry is one nasty thing itself. I've never liked kind of things anyways (nor children, nor adult). I better like talent shows. At least I can see what's inside of a person rather than outside.
That's why I agree "let kids be kids".

About all Horatio thing.
I've been thinking how much changed he is from first seasons. If I compare season 1 H with season 9 H I better look for somewhere to sit down.
Of course, it's logical that over the years character changes but not that way. I expected something else.
I dunno what I'll see in the episode when I'll watch it but at least I know how to judge it.
Maybe I'll see some other aspect of this episode and H's actions but for now I'm curious of the reasons behind H's behaviour. I'm curious to where this all leads. In the end there has to be something explaining this much of changes in his behaviour.

I just hope this whole thing won't end tragically to some character.
Though I'm yet interested to this whole "bad-boy" Horatio storyline.

But I'd give the episode B or B+ though, despite I've not seen it (thanks to all I've read and my imagination).
 
Personally, I didn't think it was that big of a deal. We've all known for some time that Horatio's methods are becoming more aggressive. It was a good episode regardless, one of my favorites in the season.
 
Considering that over on NY, Flack's shooting Jess' killer point blank didn't come with any consequences, I don't know why Horatio declining to help a pedophile (who fell on his own because he was running from cops) up would come with consequences.
 
SnowGlobeFan said:
Considering that over on NY, Flack's shooting Jess' killer point blank didn't come with any consequences, I don't know why Horatio declining to help a pedophile (who fell on his own because he was running from cops) up would come with consequences.
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I think that the difference is that with Horatio this is not the first time he has done something questionable. Killing someone point blank is the same thing as doing nothing (when you can do something) and watching someone die. But the point is that this is a pattern with Horatio now, unlike Flack, and it should lead somewhere because it's definitely a 180 on his character.
 
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