good episode all in all; creepy seeing little girls dressed up like call girls. Agree about Horatio not needing to bend over backwards to save someone who's hanging over an edge-God or fate obviously put the pedophile in a position to end his evil ways so H just let it go naturally; he did not interfere in a judgement already played out. It's vigilantism IF Horatio pushed him or shot him multiple times. H simply let this bad guy fall since that's a kindness compared to what Edwin would face in prison..hope the system would throw the book at the wife though-now SHE is the one who's super cold if you ask me-"I'm the victim I was scared what he'd do to me" whatever really? how about the helpless little girls..sick.
Episode 10x11 - 'Crowned' ***CONTAINS SPOILERS***
- Thread starter Finch
- Start date
Carolyn318
Pathologist
I think you're doing like the bad guys on the show and underestimating Horatio. I think Horatio could pull King Kong up off a ledge if he wanted to and decided to. I can't speak for everyone else but I would've still objected just as strongly if he had shot the guy. At the end of season one, Horatio pulled Stewart Otis up. Stewart tried to stop him by slashing Horatio's hand. Horatio still managed to pull him up. Stewart kidnapped little girls, cut their hair and dressed them like boys. In the season one episode "Breathe" Stewart killed that little girl by accident with the drug he gave her because he didn't know about the cold medicine she was taking. Result: deadly drug interaction.
Hardline Pro
Lab Technician
That was the most intense ending of any CSI show, ever. I was hoping to see Horatio step on the guy's hand or something, to make him fall. :devil: He was a sick pedophile. Horatio probably helped him, he would have gotten the crap beaten out of him in prison.
This is why you never shoot at Lt. Horatio Caine!
This is why you never shoot at Lt. Horatio Caine!
miamirocks
Lab Technician
Exciting episode overall - really liked the twists and turns - especially that the mom's death was an accident. That poor little girl. But just think, if the mom never died, that pedaphile never would've been caught. Funny how things work out sometimes...talk about bringing some good out of tragedy.
Calleigh was soooo good with that little girl, and I was very happy to see a child pyschologist on hand - very refreshing. I agree that the story felt it had more reality than miami glamour, which I also liked.
All the characters worked well together - enjoyed the Ryan/Cal, Eric/Nat scenes - those pairings work well together IMHO. I liked the scenes w/Sam and Walter too, although the last thing Miami needs is another character! The show is crammed as it is! I do think Walter makes their relationship fun/believable (Omar is a great actor!)
As for the last scene...it just builds on my frustration w/how H has been developed over the last 5 years. I get it - he's been through a lot. But you know what? So has Delko, and Calleigh for that matter, and Nat and Ryan too! Should they all start acting like vigilantes just like H. H used to be someone to look up to and model one's career after (which is what I think Speed and Cal did in the early years - remember the episode in Season 3 when Cal fought for H b/c she believed he would NEVER hurt a suspect-she had complete confidence that her boss would not commit police brutality and she proved Stetler wrong. You could see how much she admired him...gotta wonder if she feels the same now...:shifty: )
Anyhow, fine. H has a screw loose now and takes justice into his own hands. Fine. He wants to beat up suspects and let them die. Fine. But you know what? There HAVE to be CONSEQUENCES to these actions. For too long Horatio has walked around like a hero, and what he's really doing is jeopardizing his career and his team, which has been nothing but devoted and loyal to him. What would Nat have thought if she saw H let the guy fall? Would H have helped him if Nat was there?
It's all very convoluted and H is getting away from wayyy too much crap. It's not so much his behavior as it is that he gets away with doing things the wrong way/illegally. I know the pedaphile was scum, but still the old Horatio knew it was wrong to just let a man die w/out giving him a chance to turn it around. Now, H may be jaded, but that doesn't make what he did any less wrong. He didn't give the man a chance to turn his life around, or get what was coming to him in jail. He took justice, and a life, his own hands, and that's against his oath as a cop. Sooner or later this HAS TO CATCH UP TO HIM.
I'm so done w/him getting away like a golden boy - make him real by making real consequences - and let them team face and see what he has become. Whoever said that H doesn't listen to his team is right - he hardly ever makes eye contact w/them, doesn't interact w/them, is never playful - he's spiraling. He's not reaching out for help, and it's ruining him - something needs to be done - team intervention, anyone?
Calleigh was soooo good with that little girl, and I was very happy to see a child pyschologist on hand - very refreshing. I agree that the story felt it had more reality than miami glamour, which I also liked.
All the characters worked well together - enjoyed the Ryan/Cal, Eric/Nat scenes - those pairings work well together IMHO. I liked the scenes w/Sam and Walter too, although the last thing Miami needs is another character! The show is crammed as it is! I do think Walter makes their relationship fun/believable (Omar is a great actor!)
As for the last scene...it just builds on my frustration w/how H has been developed over the last 5 years. I get it - he's been through a lot. But you know what? So has Delko, and Calleigh for that matter, and Nat and Ryan too! Should they all start acting like vigilantes just like H. H used to be someone to look up to and model one's career after (which is what I think Speed and Cal did in the early years - remember the episode in Season 3 when Cal fought for H b/c she believed he would NEVER hurt a suspect-she had complete confidence that her boss would not commit police brutality and she proved Stetler wrong. You could see how much she admired him...gotta wonder if she feels the same now...:shifty: )
Anyhow, fine. H has a screw loose now and takes justice into his own hands. Fine. He wants to beat up suspects and let them die. Fine. But you know what? There HAVE to be CONSEQUENCES to these actions. For too long Horatio has walked around like a hero, and what he's really doing is jeopardizing his career and his team, which has been nothing but devoted and loyal to him. What would Nat have thought if she saw H let the guy fall? Would H have helped him if Nat was there?
It's all very convoluted and H is getting away from wayyy too much crap. It's not so much his behavior as it is that he gets away with doing things the wrong way/illegally. I know the pedaphile was scum, but still the old Horatio knew it was wrong to just let a man die w/out giving him a chance to turn it around. Now, H may be jaded, but that doesn't make what he did any less wrong. He didn't give the man a chance to turn his life around, or get what was coming to him in jail. He took justice, and a life, his own hands, and that's against his oath as a cop. Sooner or later this HAS TO CATCH UP TO HIM.
I'm so done w/him getting away like a golden boy - make him real by making real consequences - and let them team face and see what he has become. Whoever said that H doesn't listen to his team is right - he hardly ever makes eye contact w/them, doesn't interact w/them, is never playful - he's spiraling. He's not reaching out for help, and it's ruining him - something needs to be done - team intervention, anyone?
I don't think he'd get in trouble for this one incident alone. If they added it to other things, maybe. But, this was something Edwin basically did to himself. He was the one running from the cops and he wasn't watching where he was going.
However, unless someone was stalking Horatio and got this incident on film, I doubt anyone will ever know about it. They'll just think the guy was running from the cops and fell... which is exactly what happened. They won't know that Horatio saw him fall and didn't help him up. So, this incident will probably never be mentioned again just like the incident in "To Kill A Predator".
However, unless someone was stalking Horatio and got this incident on film, I doubt anyone will ever know about it. They'll just think the guy was running from the cops and fell... which is exactly what happened. They won't know that Horatio saw him fall and didn't help him up. So, this incident will probably never be mentioned again just like the incident in "To Kill A Predator".
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spencerreidfan
Police Officer
Let's not forget that it isn't just Horatio who's "gone vigilante". Natalia, Frank, and Eric have all assisted him in overly hostile treatment of suspects.
Hollyyo
CSI Level Two
Like someone said earlier, if Horatio would have shot him, we wouldn't be having this discussion. The guy had a gun and was running from the police. If Horatio wouldn't have missed, the guy would have died anyway. Granted, he didn't have the gun in his hand when he was hanging from the ledge, but I think it's a little extreme to let the whole episode be ruined because of that one part.
For one, it's a TV show, and they obviously wanted to end that episode with a little bit of shock value.
Also... It's so hard to have sympathy for pedofiles.
I understand the reasoning behind the opinions that he shouldn't have let the guy fall, but I don't really understand why some let it ruin the whole episode. :/
For one, it's a TV show, and they obviously wanted to end that episode with a little bit of shock value.
Also... It's so hard to have sympathy for pedofiles.
I understand the reasoning behind the opinions that he shouldn't have let the guy fall, but I don't really understand why some let it ruin the whole episode. :/
Well said. Horatio is my favorite character, but the writers are doing everything in their power to make me not like him. The thing that really gets me is how emotionless and distant he is now. Natalia was talking to him and he wouldn't even look at her, and he said very little. He rarely interacts with the team or does much of anything except run around with his gun and kill people/abuse suspects. I don't feel any sympathy for him anymore because he isn't even trying to get help. Some say it's character growth but I'd say it's the opposite.
On the other hand, this could make for a great evolution of his character if the writers actually take it somewhere. For instance, I would love to see Horatio face the consequences of his actions, hit rock bottom, get help, see a psychiatrist and then rebuild himself. David Caruso is an excellent actor, so tptb should really give him more to work with.
With that said, I really enjoyed this episode, even though it creeped me out in spots. Beauty pageants for little girls should be against the law imo. It's wrong to put kids through that kind of pressure at such a young age, and very wrong to parade them around in such revealing outfits.
The ending didn't ruin it for me. The guy was garbage and deserved death. I just don't like the fact that they keep showing us how pissed H is like it's some sort of good thing. Like it's okay to take the law into your own hands. He's a hypocrite now, because he condemns others who do the same thing.
They're simply following his lead.
spencerreidfan
Police Officer
And they're all highly trained professionals with minds of their own. Last time I checked, Horatio isn't forcing them to go along with him.
spencerreidfan
Police Officer
I thought Ryan had too, but I can't remember the episode/scenario.
DCHC4ever
Prime Suspect
Once in Hunting Ground where Ryan holds the man's hand while Horatio is threatening him with the heated fork and another time is in Last Stand when they catch the mask maker, who Horatio has shot in the shoulder, and Ryan twice presses on the injured shoulder to get him to talk. I'm not sure if there are more, but those two stick out in my mind.
fanilowchick
Police Officer
Actually, it was Natalia who pushed on his shoulder 
greatfan
Captain
If you are speaking of the incident in the car,it was H,but Natalia was there and looked rather uncomfortable.Actually, it was Natalia who pushed on his shoulder
True,that was at the side of the bus while Eric and Horatio looked on.Horatio thanked Ryan for it.
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