"Ending Happy" Discussion *Spoilers*

I would have loved to see that kind of conversation at the end of their shift, too, like, let's say in the bedroom! (After watching Grey's Anatomy and House, CSI is seriously sexually deprived despite all the half naked ladies we're treated to week after week.) But then some people would complain that CSI is about the cases, not the romances (especially when the romance involves Grissom and Sara).

I didn't think their side convo was unprofessional. I think that when the CSIs start making out with suspects, witnesses, and prostitutes, or co-workers start bonkin' each other in the broom closet (GA, House), that's unprofessional. When a couple has a brief, personal conversation as they walk (alone) to another area of a crime scene, (as colleagues/friends do all the time--as all of them have done with each other over the years--in fact, I remember Grissom and Catherine talking about sex in the past), there's nothing remotely unprofessional about it.

But if someone is inclined to dislike the Grissom/Sara story, it wouldn't really matter how or when it is addressed. The episode would always be dismissed as bad despite how clever it is.
 
I just thought I would point out, Sara never had to try to get Grissom to like her. He always did, he just never acted on it...till now.
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I always thought Grissom was running away from her, and she was always trying to get his attention...he always looked so scared of her, lol. Its interesting how Grissom and Catherine had plenty of screen time last season, but their friendship has been destroyed to further the GSR storyline. Thanks tptb!

People who are saying ethically this is no big deal, re-watch 'The Accused is Entitled'
 
People who are saying ethically this is no big deal, re-watch 'The Accused is Entitled'
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Ethically it is a big deal, but, in the USA at least, it happens a lot. people just date people they shouldn't *shrugs*

Ethics, logic and the USA just don't go well together.

And though I'm pro GSR, I think the storyline is doing more harm than good. I miss Catherine and Greg and freakin WARRICK. I know you can't expect things to stay the same, but I don't think it's fair that they're making everyone and everything else just... blah
 
ethicl or not....it is something that happens in the real world...rules are meant to be broken i guess and tv shows are no different....show me a show of the same type that has never the moral or ethical line....

*tries real hard to think about one.....nope cant do it*
 
whether it happens in the real world or not, doesn't matter. And a lot of people in the real world, especially in law enforcement get fired because of it. But in the CSI universe, in the eppy 'the accused is entitled', it has already been addressed. Sara's credibility is destroyed on the stand. Can you imagine what would happen to Grissom?
 
Yeah, but Grissom knows the risks of what he's doing, he's a smart man. He obviously thinks she's worth it. *shrugs*

I agree with you xf, and I don't like that they show in tv shows like this that its absolutely ok for things like this to happen, but for the sake of entertainment value, tv will do anything...
 
I agree with you xf, and I don't like that they show in tv shows like this that its absolutely ok for things like this to happen, but for the sake of entertainment value, tv will do anything...
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Well I think right now...the GSR romance is underplayed morally because supposedly no one knows about it. Its easy for things to seem ethnically okay when it's hidden. I don't think the show has had to handle this aspect of it, but once its out in the open hopefully CSI will be a bit realistic and handle this situation reasonably.

Of course they could be handling it completely wrong if after the finale everything is overlooked because what supposedly happens to Sara. And all the sudden the show turns into a pity party for what Grissom almost lost or loses. :rolleyes:
 
Oh for God's sake - IT WAS A 30-SECOND SCENE. Seriously, why does every single teeny GSR scene have to be dissected and growled about in the episode threads over and over and over by those who don't like it? I mean, really? Apart from an "I liked it!" or "Meh" or "Didn't float my boat" here and there, I don't see the Geek Lovers or neutrals subjecting everyone to a bunch of GSR-scene analysis, except either in the GSR thread or as a response to people who don't like the ship who nevertheless spend 90% of their posts ranting about it instead of, you know, talking about THE OTHER 41 MINUTES AND 30 SECONDS OF THE EPISODE. Can't we just do this in the debate thread where it belongs? Doing it here always derails the discussion from proper episode analysis, and it's rude.

I thought this episode was just hilarious. I had a feeling it was going to be a "chaos theory" kind of explanation, but it was so much fun getting there I really didn't mind.

Unlike last episode, where the humor was mostly due to people that we knew and loved (the regular & recurring characters), this week the humor had quite a bit to do with the guest stars. This is something I've noticed the show put a great deal of emphasis on this season, as opposed to other ones. I've had the opportunity to watch Spike this week, and I'm really struck by how so many of CSI's previous episodes wrote suspects and witnesses in a very pedestrian way. They were there to serve the plot, nothing more. But this season, the show has taken great care to flesh out even the smallest roles so that these people come to life, and are very memorable. It adds greatly to the pleasure of watching the episode when you are fascinated by not only the team and the lab rats, but the people they encounter in the course of their work. It's such a small touch, but it's important. (And - ahem - it's one of the balls Grey's has dropped this season. I'm just saying.)

I also loved the B-monster-movie style of showing the events that contributed to Happy's demise. It was a neat little touch that just added to the "fun" of the episode. CSI has been playing around with that sort of production a LOT this year... using music, sound, filming, props, and so on to add symbolism and metaphor to the stories it's telling. It's a cut above the connect-the-dots style of procedural mysteries, and is what is helping to distinguish them from the umpteen procedurals out there on television today. In this case, Happy really was a monster - a brute of a fellow who used everyone around him. But, just as the monsters in many of those movies were misunderstood creatures, Happy was a fellow whose brains had softened due to injuries sustained through his boxing career and the like. It's one of the old themes of such movies: how do you pity the monster for not being able to help itself, and kill it to protect others the same time? I often have the same thought about criminals, and so I appreciated that undercurrent running through those "monster" scenes.

I didn't think that Nick was out of character with the old gentlemen (All Hail James Whitmore for rocking even the smallest of parts, BTW). Nick is an empathetic guy, and a romantic in his own way, but he's not a bleeding heart that swoons over poetry. I'm not saying that he's not intelligent; he is - but memorizing and quoting poetry is just not his bag, baby. Now, if the old gentleman had been confused and upset over what he perceived as the "recent death" of his wife and what appeared, to him, to be the police's callous ignoring of that, then I can see Nick's heart going out to him in a second. Nick's empathy is showcased when people are in pain - which this guy wasn't. But Nick is a practical guy too, and he's not going to sit around spinning lyrics when he's hot on a scent. Which he was - the arrow through the picture had given him an idea, as to trajectory, etc., and poetry was not strong enough to distract him from it.

Sara, on the other hand, I could see being more impatient with the old man in the above scenario, especially if she needed information from him that he wasn't giving. But in this case, the guy was not impeding their investigation in any way. Plus, she likes poetry. There have been instances in the past where she's correctly identified famous quotes and stuff - the roller-coaster episode comes to mind (mostly because I just watched it yesterday). She's a well-read person, not because she's trying to copy one of Grissom's passions but because it's genuinely one of her own. It doesn't surprise me in the least that she would recognize a well-known Longfellow poem... or that she would finish it just to show the old gentleman that yes, there are young people in the world who still enjoy the beauty of poetry.

I loved everyone's characterization this time around. Brass was truly, truly awesome. The only way he could be more awesome is if he actually did judge American Idol. Grissom was especially funny in the headphones scene - I like it when Grissom's mischievous side comes out; he's usually so serious and burdened with cares all the time, when he finally relaxes and grins it's like a sudden burst of rare sunshine. I would have liked to have seen more Catherine and Warrick - maybe they'll have heavier roles next time? And I swear, I don't know what the hell has been going in the water over there, but neither Greg nor Hodges have EVER been as hot as they have been this season. Way to go, boys!

And - oh, fine, the conversation between Sara and Grissom. But I'm NOT discussing it as a shippy thing; forget it. I'm sick and tired of having everybody harp on GSR scenes until the pro people argue back and then the mods come in and tell us to break it up. It makes us look like the bad guys, and I'm not playing that game. I'll debate any and all of you over the merits of this ship... but let's do it in the debate thread and refrain from hijacking this one, 'kay?

Except for the last two lines, that conversation struck me as the kind of conversation any two members of this team could have had on their trek to another part of the crime scene. Especially this team - they've been working with each other so long and know each other so well, I can see where Catherine would ask Nick or Greg would ask Warrick or Greg would ask Nick if they'd ever paid for sex, or if they ever would, simply because they're investigating a crime in a legal brothel. I don't know if any of these guys would have answered with with the degree of sincerity or solemnity that Grissom answered it, but Grissom has always been the kind of guy who'd give a serious, solemn answer to that sort of question no matter who asked it of him. Insofar as it showed illumination of a regular character's personality while in conversation with another - a thing that this show does with regularity, seeing as more personal moments are kept to a minimum - I liked it. I like bed-hopping shows as much as the next gal, but I think it's sweet to have a male lead on one television show who professes not to believe in or partake of sex without love.
 
Why weren't any of the suspects charged? Seriously...did they all get off scott free? You have one that hits him with a crow bar, another that shoots him with an arrow with an arrow gun, and then of course the business with the shell fish!!! Okay...but maybe I missed it because I was getting sort of tired by the end of it...but did any of them get charged with attempted murder?
 
Oh for God's sake - IT WAS A 30-SECOND SCENE.
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Um, scuze - 44-SECOND SCENE. I mean, that's practically a lifetime, Dee, geez!!!

I don't see the Geek Lovers or neutrals subjecting everyone to a bunch of GSR-scene analysis, except either in the GSR thread or as a response to people who don't like the ship who nevertheless spend 90% of their posts ranting about it instead of, you know, talking about THE OTHER 41 MINUTES AND 30 SECONDS OF THE EPISODE. Can't we just do this in the debate thread where it belongs? Doing it here always derails the discussion from proper episode analysis, and it's rude.
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Here's my bigger issue: if CSI was as boring as it was last year (and last year, I think, was pretty damn dull), I could get focusing all the energy on the only controversial (and therefore interesting, even if you don't like it) thing.

I think this was an entertaining episode, and I think this has been an entertaining season, and that has nothing to do with the fact that I like GSR.

It has to do with the fact that I'm honestly enjoying what TPTB are producing.

Now, really - if you guys are still here after GSR being canon, no matter HOW much you liked the show - there has to be more than hope keeping you here after 21 episodes.

If the show was God-awful, why would you keep watching?

Grey's Anatomy is God-awful right now, and I cannot finish a single episode. I haven't been able to for weeks. I start it, and then I literally will start channel-flipping in the middle of scenes because I'm so bored.

I get being mad that a ship you don't like is canon. It's happened to me on a number of shows. I get that it taints your whole view of the show.

But what I don't get is sticking around for 21 episodes later if the show genuinely isn't good anymore.

This episode had me rolling. Paul Guilfoyle? Please get your complimentary Emmy. His slight change in facial expressions are funnier than the entire run of Everybody Loves Raymond (seriously - why did anyone like that show? lol)

I thought this episode was just hilarious. I had a feeling it was going to be a "chaos theory" kind of explanation, but it was so much fun getting there I really didn't mind.
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What I like is that when CSI goes for a crazy episode, it really throws any semblance of believability out the window and clearly states, "This one is just for fun, folks."

One of the things that, IMO, killed Buffy in its later seasons was that it never was able to find that line between campiness and stupidity was.

This episode, to me, was pure camp. I enjoyed the fact that the actors seemed in on it as well. From the way Grissom and Brass snuck up like naughty schoolboys to listen in on the conversation to the interviewing of the hookers, to basically everything.

I had some minor qualms about the use of the monster music. I know some loved it, but to me it skirted that camp line a few too many times.

I didn't think that Nick was out of character with the old gentlemen (All Hail James Whitmore for rocking even the smallest of parts, BTW). Nick is an empathetic guy, and a romantic in his own way, but he's not a bleeding heart that swoons over poetry. I'm not saying that he's not intelligent; he is - but memorizing and quoting poetry is just not his bag, baby. Now, if the old gentleman had been confused and upset over what he perceived as the "recent death" of his wife and what appeared, to him, to be the police's callous ignoring of that, then I can see Nick's heart going out to him in a second. Nick's empathy is showcased when people are in pain - which this guy wasn't. But Nick is a practical guy too, and he's not going to sit around spinning lyrics when he's hot on a scent. Which he was - the arrow through the picture had given him an idea, as to trajectory, etc., and poetry was not strong enough to distract him from it.
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I agree. Nick is a shoulder to cry on and a hand to hold. He wants to talk you through your pain. I think he likes things to be very straight-forward and fixable. If there's a solution, Nicky will find it. This didn't require a solution. It required offering a wink and a nudge, in a sweet way. I'm not saying Nick can't do it, it's just not, as the Dee said, his bag.

And HAIL to James Whitmore. I love-love-love him.

Where is Jake?

Plus, she likes poetry. There have been instances in the past where she's correctly identified famous quotes and stuff - the roller-coaster episode comes to mind (mostly because I just watched it yesterday). She's a well-read person, not because she's trying to copy one of Grissom's passions but because it's genuinely one of her own. It doesn't surprise me in the least that she would recognize a well-known Longfellow poem... or that she would finish it just to show the old gentleman that yes, there are young people in the world who still enjoy the beauty of poetry.
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She's read Moby Dick, Poe... her literary knowledge has been established several times.

In all honesty, I think that other than the final two lines, as Dee said, this could've been a conversation between Grissom and Catherine, Sara and Nick, Warrick and Nick, Greg and Nick... you name it. Until those final two lines, it's not really "about" them. It ties into the case, and it establishes for the audience what kind of man Grissom is when it comes to bedroom politics.

ETA

In essence, it was no different (other than the last 2) from the converstaion Grissom and Catherine had about the furries in Season 4.

Excerpt:

GRISSOM: Well, you know, pheromones are the basis for mammalian reproduction.
When the female is in estrus, the male picks up on her come-get-me scent. But
most mammals only copulate seasonally.

CATHERINE: How boring.

GRISSOM: For some.
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Or Greg and Sara in Premium Non Nocere:

GREG: I was captain of the high school chess squad.

(SARA turns to look at GREG.)

SARA: Chess is not a sport, Greg.

(SARA walks to the first set of shoes and starts spraying them with luminol.
GREG follows.)

GREG: Then why is there a World Chess Champion?

SARA: I think sports are physical by definition.

GREG: Well, sex is physical. Is that a sport?

SARA: Not to me.
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Did anyone ragingly say that Grissom and Catherine or Sara and Greg were being very out of line by discussing these things at work?
 
Oh for God's sake - IT WAS A 30-SECOND SCENE. Seriously, why does every single teeny GSR scene have to be dissected and growled about in the episode threads over and over and over by those who don't like it? I mean, really? Apart from an "I liked it!" or "Meh" or "Didn't float my boat" here and there, I don't see the Geek Lovers or neutrals subjecting everyone to a bunch of GSR-scene analysis, except either in the GSR thread or as a response to people who don't like the ship who nevertheless spend 90% of their posts ranting about it instead of, you know, talking about THE OTHER 41 MINUTES AND 30 SECONDS OF THE EPISODE. Can't we just do this in the debate thread where it belongs? Doing it here always derails the discussion from proper episode analysis, and it's rude.
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another GSR fan telling us what to like...its rude to tell people how to think. Now that GSR is in the show, it is fair game. It isn't about a 40 second scene, its about Catherine and Grissom's friendship being absolutely DESTROYED to pimp this storyline. Also, all the other characters being thrown under the bus to promote GSR. That is what people are debating. It isn't about the actual screen time this relationship has, its the overall affect it has on the show. If you don't like it, then don't read the posts...jeeze.



And - oh, fine, the conversation between Sara and Grissom. But I'm NOT discussing it as a shippy thing; forget it. I'm sick and tired of having everybody harp on GSR scenes until the pro people argue back and then the mods come in and tell us to break it up.
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Plenty of people shared their opinions about the scene, and they weren't attacked. We are just discussing our own views on it. You will not be attacked for saying you liked the scene. Now you are making us the bad guys...

Except for the last two lines, that conversation struck me as the kind of conversation any two members of this team could have had on their trek to another part of the crime scene.
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That doesn't matter, they are dating. That makes the dynamic of this conversation different. Plus, if it was someone else asking Grissom that, he would just give them a strange look, and not really answer, since he doesn't like to give out personal info. Maybe he would if it was catherine...

Now, really - if you guys are still here after GSR being canon, no matter HOW much you liked the show - there has to be more than hope keeping you here after 21 episodes.

If the show was God-awful, why would you keep watching?

But what I don't get is sticking around for 21 episodes later if the show genuinely isn't good anymore.
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Yeah, hope for this relationship to end, and for Grissom to go back to normal. I have only got through a couple of eppys this season, with nothing annoying me. I am waiting for an episode where Grissom and Sara are NOT working together, which is hopeless. I am only giving CSI one more chance, because it was my favorite show. New York is my fave now, but I am waiting to see if they get rid of the relationship. If they don't, then I will not watch.
 
*frowns* I liked Everybody Loves Raymond...

And... I think we should be able to discuss the GSR if we think it affected the episode, which, for me, it did... buuuut, I guess I'll shut up about it now.

*applauds xfcanadians arguments and leaves*
 
I've tried to stay out of this agrument, but I just can't anymore...

xfcanadian said:
Oh for God's sake - IT WAS A 30-SECOND SCENE. Seriously, why does every single teeny GSR scene have to be dissected and growled about in the episode threads over and over and over by those who don't like it? I mean, really? Apart from an "I liked it!" or "Meh" or "Didn't float my boat" here and there, I don't see the Geek Lovers or neutrals subjecting everyone to a bunch of GSR-scene analysis, except either in the GSR thread or as a response to people who don't like the ship who nevertheless spend 90% of their posts ranting about it instead of, you know, talking about THE OTHER 41 MINUTES AND 30 SECONDS OF THE EPISODE. Can't we just do this in the debate thread where it belongs? Doing it here always derails the discussion from proper episode analysis, and it's rude.
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another GSR fan telling us what to like...its rude to tell people how to think. Now that GSR is in the show, it is fair game. It isn't about a 40 second scene, its about Catherine and Grissom's friendship being absolutely DESTROYED to pimp this storyline. Also, all the other characters being thrown under the bus to promote GSR. That is what people are debating. It isn't about the actual screen time this relationship has, its the overall affect it has on the show. If you don't like it, then don't read the posts...jeeze.
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I'm sorry, but how was Miss Dee telling you what to like or how to think? The jist I got from her post was that she was tired of people ragging on GSR all. the time. because it derailed form the intended discussion.

Look, I get that you all think that Catherine and Grissom/whoever else's relationship has been forgot about, and to tell you the truth, I can see where you're coming from, but can you honestly say GSR is the only thing TPTB is concentrating on? Sure, it's being acknowledged, but we've hardly learned anything about them!

And also, I don't understand how Grissom's character has completely been changed. I mean, yeah he says things and does things that he didn't do in the past seasons, but do you remember how Grissom was? Dark, depressed, quiet, reserved. He's in a relationship now, do you think maybe he's just a happier person now? I can name a million ways Nick, Warrick, Sara, Grissom, Greg and Catherine have all changed. It happens over time.

I get that you guys don't like it, fine. Like Dee said, it's one thing to look at the scene and say "yeah...didn't really like it", but it's another to go around complaining to everyone on how it "made you gag" and how you found it "completely apalling". Does a television show really make you want to throw up? Then why are you still watching? I know if I felt that strongly about a television show that I would definitely not watch it anymore. Why would I want to if it brought me that much discomfort?

One last thing before I shut up: If it was the ship you were a supporter of that was talking about sex, would you be acting like this? I highly highly doubt that. You would all be celebrating in the ship thread. And if other people were going around talking about how it made them disgusted, you would feel a need to say something, right? So please don't tell us that we're "attacking" you. Because we're not, or at least I'm not.

Mods, sorry for this. I just couldn't take it anymore.
 
Oh, boy. I loooved this episode. I hadn't laughed that hard watching CSI in a long time :cool:

It felt like the good old days again. I kinda missed that.

First laughing fit -well, maybe not a fit, but I had a good laugh ... Grissom's little speech about hookers and pool water before the credits. Another thing that I really missed this season: him doing his 'thing' before the opening credits. It felt good.

It was fun, the case was weird, the acting was great.

The first few scenes when they investigate the brothel were simply hilarious, especially the scenes with Binky, Doris, and the hookers. I don't know the whole place was totally crazy :lol:

The movie-like flashback scenes of Morales' death, were cool too. Made it look like some kind of Frankenstein or Zombie movie, with Morales rising from the dead :D I loved that.

Hodges telling Greg about his first time with a hooker -and ending with "We've got a winneeeer!" :D That made me laugh.

Brass was great in this episode.
"Do I look like Paula Abdul to you?" :lol: Good one. Gotta love the man's dry and very tongue in cheek humor.
Loved the look on his face every time Doc Robbins called him on his cell while he was interrogating the suspects.
 
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