Hullo. My name is Inigo Mont- Oh. Beg pardon. My mistake.
Hullo. Best wishes for a Happy New Year to y'all
.
Hullo? I'd like to report what looks like a dead horse. Might be a zombie horse, not sure. I've stumbled across it in a few threads, while ambling about and catching up. I think it might live here, when it's in better shape.
Much of what I am replying to has been quoted from outside this thread, but I thought the discussion was best placed here than where I found it, should I join in. I hope it appropriate.
It's been awhile since I've had time to comment at all. Woulda if I coulda. A meh & shrug has not won out for me. So, here 'goes. (As always, assume a "
" generally present
).
The scattered Equine-Beating Variants I've read: The Ratings Would Be Higher / Show Better If:
- smack was alluded to in canon, even now ("...not dead, just resting")
- Mac were a monk, destined to remain a widower and alone, because if he can't be with Stella he should be with no one at all
- the show stopped writing Mac any material that had him interacting with any female character in any way that might be read as flirtatious. Unless it includes a phone call from NOLA. Further, should any woman take a shine to the cranky uber-ex-marine and/or vice versa, be it known this is actually somehow degrading to him. Should two women coincide in liking him at the same time (or within 5 months in NY years) then the Universe will uh...do something terribly dramatic. And messy. Very messy.
- the show would acknowledge that any relationship material is by default soapish, unless of course, it relates to an insinuated possibility that smack is still possible thru some existential long distance plan, in which case it's not soapish, it's inevitable (and ineffable)
Purported conclusion: the show will die in the face of MK leaving, Ward joining, Jo not being Stella, no matter who she may be, cos Stella's irreplaceable, the writers continuing to defy smack desires even in memorium, and the presumed atrocity suffered should Mac and Jo *plz to shield the young and innocent* ...flirt.
I disagree. Just my opinion, of course
.
I don't think there is a butterfly-effect correlation between ratings and specific elements found within a given episode. IE. Mac having pizza with Aubrey.
I don't think any one character will sink or save a series. Not Stella, Jo, not even Exhibit A (or perhaps AB): despite Belknap's & some scripting's periodic efforts, Lindsay hasn't sunk NY. Jo is already miles above & SW was a coup in NY being able to transition major characters as well as it has.
I think the S7 ratings have been reasonably solid & consistent. How that translates into acceptable cost/revenue ratios for the network, I dunno. I simply hope its enough to garner another season. In terms of content, several changes seem to have prompted the show to take a look at itself, & I think the writing has improved.
I want to be clear. I've no problem with the Ship of Smack. Or any ship. Ship away. I certainly do counter the notion that NY sans Smack, Stella, & MK, is by default crap. And, well, frankly, the collective gravitional mass, & gravitas within some content I read was irresistable
.
*passes over a pristine box*
Brand new.
Since the end of the 5th season the standard of writing in general as been poor add to that this season there is a Stella/Smacked hole the size of the Grand Canyon which hasn't even been remotely filled contrary to the sun shines out of Sela Ward propaganda TPTB keep on trotting out. The job of any TV show is to entertain
I don't disagree that the show had seemed happy with a certain mediocrity the past few seasons.
I do disagree about Stella. I don't miss her like I thought I would. There is also no Smack void, given that Smack never was.
The Grand Canyon is unperturbed. The sun goes about it's business, unconcerned with SW's arse. It's come up every day. I've checked
. (The sun, that is).
I think S7 is one of the most entertaining seasons NY has put together in recent years.
Mac is too mature a character to degrade via love triangle
I liked the little we saw of Aubrey in her own right, and saw also how she essentially made Peyton's return to fill a certain slot in a playful Hitchcockian homage a bit more charged.
Triangle? There was little enough innuendo to build a meaningful geometric shape at all
. If NY's "Twilight" was
that understated, a hint o !Tension w/ Mac & Jo is nuthin to worry about :lol:.
Hardly an example of Degrading Material. But a curious point to repeatedly reference as evidence of such. I might suggest a home invasion masked as a dinner date wot ended in violent death in Stella's living room as an example of somewhat degrading. House calls from two docs don't ring quite the same for me.
For the time being, I'd rather Mac remain single as he strikes me as romantically inert. He lost Claire for pete's sake and no one can replace Claire as well as Stella
Mac is often inert unless shouting at someone or pursuing something due some bee up his arse. No sunshine there either :lol:. Having Aubrey, or Peyton present has actually made him warmer, a little looser, initiating interaction, less cardboard. Not so inert.
The point is not to replace, but to move forward. Everyone is permitted an evolution. On a show that's usually a good thing. A relationship is one avenue.
The show is far past it's expiration date...several episodes last season dropped to as low as 10.3 million views but that's likely because of how many were turned off by the Mac/Aubrey/Peyton triangle disaster
Was it past it's exp date the day before MK walked? Or just after?
The
franchise has managed a very respectable decade on the air, & within that, the pendulum had already begun a slow shift. Networks seem to like blood from an established stone, new coat tails, & manageable risk, simultaneous & in slo mo where possible.
I was unappalled in the face of Disaster. It was fun to see an ep that was different for NY. Besides. We got a great poster from
Fay outta the deal & some incredible mileage outta PV's tongue-in-cheek Twilight comments
. Win Win (Win).
(Perhaps if I nudge rly nice like,
Fay might do up another poster for Awesome Eyebrows?
)
We can conclude the show with a scene of Mac and Stella's teams both being at their wedding and with the Bride (Stella) and Mac (Groom), kissing at the alter, it immediately cuts to credits and Mac/Stella kiss at the alter wraps up the show and it cuts to credits for the last time
not to mention imagine if they had kids who talk about their parents being heads of various labs over the years
...cos this sounds
so much less a Cliche and Soapish thing for a procedural cop show to do...
....there's NOBODY that can come close to being a true love for Mac, the way Stella IS. I hope that if they decide to try Mac/Jo, then protesting fans will overwhelm the fax machines expressing their disapproval
I don't think the show has been concerned about a True Love for any of its characters
. (W/ respect to any in the DL Ship, IMO DL are certainly not the most Inevitably Meant To Be Couple Wot Ever Was either :lol
.
Folk would have something to say about Mac/Jo, even if it's cos they just went for a burger. Or a hot dog. PV's ever so brief comment has, again, people all a-chatter. I suspect TPTB are delighted
.
It would not even require MK returning but it would make closure a lot easier, not to mention TPTB can finally, FINALLY redeem themselves and forgive the sheer mess-up they've done since "Grounds for Deception"
Lindsay reading a letter from Stella was underwhelming, but I don't see anything that needs closure or redemption. But IMO Grounds might require some contrition
This just proves that it is the end for CSI:NY. I truly miss it terribly and the post-CSI:NY era has been the most difficult transition out of a TV-era I've been through in over 13 years
Ah. This is where the kleenex came in.
I hear no bells tolling just yet, or Jim Morrison intoning solemnly.
I think the scheduling shifts we're to see in the second half of the season speak far more to the network trying to find slots to air its mid-season entrants, broadcast the runs of all its shows, and test possibilities in scheduling for next season.
Medium's cancellation was a near given to open up a slot to start the tetris game. It would seem to be about an over-hyped & under-performing Defenders, a CM2 spin-off needing significant retooling, testing Blue Bloods elsewhere in the schedule for next season, if kept, and about getting a return on Chaos. It gets everything on, gives them a chance to see how shows do in different places against different competition, eye the shape of next season from afar, and really, none of these moves are overly risky.
NY, once underway in S7, has been a show the network hasn't had to think about too much. I hope NY doesn't get lost in the shuffle, and ultimately benefits from the schedule tinkering, getting some book-ends solidified. Guess we'll see.
Among the new entrants, the one I'm most curious about is Chaos, a show who's production history has certainly lived up to its name.
CSI:NY could join that list of shows where cast changes prove fatal in the end.
Bluntly, if/when NY ends, it won't be singularly attributable to MK leaving.
To the writers/crew if they ask, "what happened?" if/when the show is suddenly cancelled, don't say we didn't warn them! We warned them about doing this, bringing Mac/Jo into this like the way they are, and thus far, they have not listened and the show will pay the ultimate price for it
I guess the memo sprite musta ate another one, PTB obviously didn't get it. How else to 'splain Stella/Adam, Mac/Aubrey, Peyton, Russ, and Jo's effervescent personality? (Stella's successor was clearly not supposed to be a smart, insightful, fun, playful, warm, strong, independent woman with a complicated history, & a bit of a chaotic, near-flaky side who's entertaining to watch).
Personally, I damn well know they've eaten mine about DL for
years. Silly Bastards. Silly, Evil,
Evil Bastards
. Fingerpuppets, Lighthouse of Doom, an' a freakin medal my
arse :shifty::lol:.
I truly loved, and miss this show for what it used to be, prior to the pile of garbage it has become
CSI New York: Nope! Haven't watched at all. No Melina, NO CSI NY! ....So to be, this show is over.
I'd take Season 7 over several of it's past seasons any day. I don't miss a lot of what it used to be in recent years.
Another observation: I tend to give less credence to criticism of S7 being a steaming pile of refuse when one hasn't watched a single episode of it.
That NY had not been so graced with one's viewership was repeatedly and emphatically reiterated as a point of defiant pride in the face of MK's departure. I expect that must make critiquing the actual content of this season rather tricky, outside of what's read in spoilers and the like. I doubt some would be won over regardless, but it might be fair to watch what one is commenting on. It might at least offer something
new to the discussion.
Originally Posted by Country233
I don't like Sela Ward very much so I try to avoid thinking of her having an on-screen thing with Sinise.
Like SW or dislike her, dandyo. But I'm hoping that ya mean you dislike the notion of Mac and Jo having a thing, as opposed to Sinise and Ward. Or are we back to suggesting colleagues are crushing on one another again? If Jo had been cast with an actor other than SW, would this have come up at all?
A Jo/Russ/Mac triangle is another epic disaster on the horizon and couple that with angry Mac/Stella fans who aren't quietly giving up on the pairing, it could add up to the show being fed to the angry Grizzly Cancellation Bear.
Woe betide
.
And with a more viceral honesty, here is stated what would seem to be the real issue. Undeterred Smack, and far less concerns of degrading geometry, procedural mandates, soap, character interpretation, etc.
Yet, I'll play. Me, I'm wary but curious. Mac's relationship material has been among the most concise & well integrated NY has managed, as well as that of Danny/Rikki. But I doubt Mac's forefront in this. Russ has everything to do with Jo, & the show mebbe dabbling a bit. Stella got personal material, why shouldn't Jo. And if handled as well as Mac's was, it should be interesting. NY get to show me what they've got before I'll pass judgement.
If the Smack demographic truly held as much sway as presumed, then Smack might have been overtly included as !Tension at some point within the past six years. I think the bear's a bit indifferent. I suspect there might be an over-generous presumption of influence.
Pairing up main characters tends to be incompatable with cop or police procedural shows' main plot and creates a lot of soap that interferes with the shows main plot ideas.
Wow. Weird. Just had a flash of deja vu. Ever happen to you?
Far from being a detriment, Castle and Bones have thrived on such :lol:. Part of their procedure, if you will.
Not saying I'd like NY to go this way. But I do hafta poke this as a convenient argument to counter what was previously wished for by some, an augmented interaction between two leads. They apparently just hafta be the right ones.
I'll play again. I think I'd still prefer a recurring character as a romantic interest for a main character, to any serious parings within the central roster, but !Flirtation skirts some of the issues that might be potential drawbacks in such a scenario. I think NY also knows this, which is why Russ is a substantial part of the equation. If the show purely wanted to write Jo and Mac discovering an attraction, they wouldn't need Russ in the picture.
I see Russ therefore as created to enable an important part of Jo's back story, and likely to be a complicating figure not just for Jo but for the whole team. I think his presence will ensure that no one is feeling comfortable or on level ground. Not on a general FBI/NYPD case level, not on a personal level for Jo, not for her colleagues in dealing with someone who has a both a professional and personal stake in how their team runs, not Mac as boss nor as Jo's partner, whether there's a !Tension played or not. If there is, I'm sure the show will use Russ to avoid having to commit to anything anyways.
I think Russ has fun potential in letting NY dabble in all that some folk harbor the worst fears for without actually suffering in terms of procedure, plot ideas, or soap, nor, for that matter, actually Pairing anyone up at all. And that, in part, is why it is fun. More fun than if PTB just wanted to nudge Mac and Jo closer together.
...why can't Mac be happy to be single.
If not Stella, can't Mac be content with NOT dating anyone?
:lol:.
Sry. Gee Mac, how is it you might deign to desire companionship after years of loss and solitude? With someone other than Stella, that is? Whattup w/ dat? Is the couch not enuff for you? Wrong upholstery mebbe?
Why shouldn't Mac see anyone?
...Mac, btw, was apparently content with Not Stella for the whole of their years working together.
Mac/Jo is destined to send CSI:NY, not only into soap opera territory but also perhaps piss off so many former Mac/Stella fans to the point that they'll be cheering the shows demise.
...aaaaaand, sometimes I get rather exasperated by repeated and ongoing posts seeking to link Smack, MK, SW, and Jo, causally, to forecasts of the show's demise, made with what at times seems to be a near "if you espouse it, it will come" fervency. I find it distasteful when speculation about a show's future crosses over into actively wishing for its demise. But. Freedom of speech yada. What's actually prompted me to reply has been the implication that a ground-in and particularly ugly defeat would somehow be what the folk of NY deserve.
The show will get whatever the network thinks it's worth to them. Bottom line.
Two cents: There has been betrayal. Smack never made it to Canon. It continues to exist where it always has, in the eye of the beholder, in discussion among fans, or even curious and casual viewers in forums like this, in fan fiction, and the like. There was no promise made that's been denied. That is also why there would be no betrayal should the show overtly and deliberately (as opposed to interpretively) play with any hint of !Interest between Mac/Jo.
The Crux, pt I: An actor, MK, made a RL decision about her life and career. The show was obliged to make some RL Adjustments, while facing many other changes as well. The changes have enabled some new onscreen material and interaction that they've had to figure out on the fly.
That's not a betrayal of Smack fans, Stella fans, NY fans, MK fans, or any casual NY viewers. That's the business & life of a show. The folk of NY go home at the end of the day having worked respective butts off, none of them owe me a damned thing, just as I neither owe them my viewership. Mi casa es su casa, come in for an hour, or don't. That's all it is.
Resentful comments about changes are understandable, to a degree, in that a show can inspire great passion in viewers. I might hope that such loyalty was not fickle. But eh. Come in for an hour or don't.
The Crux, part II: When commentary crosses over to spiteful, to five months of it, spun around the same themes, in multiple threads, to the point where one starts calling for the end of the show, to cheering for failure, for wishing what equates to
real harm on real people in a hard business whose work had previously been found so engaging, over the fate of two
fictional characters, between whom, even within the show's realm that spawned them, no romantic entanglement existed, well, ...it's frankly a wee bit absurd, somewhat off color, and just a tad out of proportion. Dude. Seriously.
-
It's been a fun diversion, popping in here. If ever Sheldon gets his sparkly belt
be it for Adam, or his upcoming rumoured LI, I might visit here more often :lol:, but I've no stake in matters. I thought Flack and Stella might be fun, but Adam schooled him :lol:. I'm liking Jo's interaction with everyone so far. I doubt a little potential flirting with Mac will change that drastically.
This season is definitely one of NY's better ones. The show has earned itself an increased latitude from me, to play about and still have me tune in to see what they're up to.
Now.
If someone would pass me a *kleenex* an' a shovel, I'd be happy to attend to an unfortunately mauled zombie horse before it wanders off again. Does leave rather a trail. I'll put it next to the Norwegian Blue.
