Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Part 2

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

As much as I can't stand Vartann and Catherine's...lack of fire that I would prefer to see from any ship with Cath in it I'm still glad to just see Cath with someone other than another Eddie/Adam Novak/that nightclub owner I forgot the name of. Cath deserves someone decent and Vartann certainly is decent. Unless the writers decide other wise.:)
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I think there are different kinds of on screen chemistry.
Catherine is portrayed as sexual, so most of her scenes with men are going to have a sexual subtext. I like her scenes with Vartann so far, but I don't think they have the same chemistry that she had with Warrick, or some of her other 'love' interests (my personal favorite was Keppler). But they seem to be comfortable with each other, and as pointed out earlier, as we get older there are different things we want out of a relationship. Catherine has settled down this year and has discovered someone with similar interests, who also happens to be good looking. ;)

Grissom and LH had sexual chemistry in the beginning, but that was not evident at all in her last 2 episodes. Again, LH was suppose to be a sexual character, but I don't think Grissom was intended to be. But he did become quite the romantic in season 7 with Sara.

Grissom and Catherine had some sexual banter, but their chemistry was mostly in a friendly 'I got your back' kind of way. I do think it is possible to have a strong relationship with the opposite sex without making it sexual, and, personally, I'm glad tptb decided to go that route.

With Grissom and Sara there is a history to their relationship that, for the most part, remains a mystery. Billy and Jorja had wonderful on screen chemistry that seemed to change in its tone over the years to reflect the subtext of what their on screen relationship was about; lots of ups and downs, twists and turns, joy and angst. In the end, I think it was a mature one that grew from mentorship and mutual respect, to friendship, to a romantic (and sexual) relationship, and finally to one where they both realized that they complemented each other, and that no one else would quite fit into their world. There was nothing ideal about their relationship, but it had deep roots and a solid foundation, and I think it became more important to them than they ever thought it would. The complex nature of GSR is what intrigued me over the years. I guess even now, with them married yet, apparently, living mostly apart, it still intrigues me.
 
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Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

With Grissom and Sara there is a history to their relationship that, for the most part, remains a mystery. Billy and Jorja had wonderful on screen chemistry that seemed to change in its tone over the years to reflect the subtext of what their on screen relationship was about; lots of ups and downs, twists and turns, joy and angst. In the end, I think it was a mature one that grew from mentorship and mutual respect, to friendship, to a romantic (and sexual) relationship, and finally to one where they both realized that they complimented each other, and that no one else would quite fit into their world. There was nothing ideal about their relationship, but it had deep roots and a solid foundation, and I think it became more important to them than they ever thought it would. The complex nature of GSR is what intrigued me over the years. I guess even now, with them married yet, apparently, living mostly apart, it still intrigues me.
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And that intrigue is what still keeps me watching CSI is some ways. There's no other ship out there on any show I've seen so far that compares to the way GSR is handled. Even though I may prefer both Sara and Grissom with other characters I always return to GSR as the standard for CSI romances. Restrained and conservative is the way to go.
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

AFIS, the nightclub owner that Cath dated was named Chris. :) Don't ask me how I remember that... but I liked her with Brad Johnson's character, can't remember his name (he was a building inspector or something I think)... but then he couldn't handle her hours. I think Vartann is good for her because he'd understand her hours. :)
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Beings I'm an avid fan and have watched this how since the onset, I was not only going by what the writers planned, & brought on Jorja Fox to be Grissom's 'love interest' but what Billy Petersen said, constantly' About the " in his final arc Sara was involved". Plus, I loved watching them together, they had so much in common. I never saw anything between him and Cath they were always at each others throats. Argued about almost everything. He put her on supension & she always had a furrowed brow when he was professing his ideas and theories. And visa versa he sure didn't get her at all. And on LH that was a cheap shot joke. Talk about different. To me she was a bewitching thrill and a novelty, but they had absoutely nada in common.:confused: And not his type for a lifetime partner ever. His heart, mind, body and soul always belonged to only one woman SARA who he left his job to be with. And now their married:p
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

But you know what they say, Desertwind. Hate can transform into passion. Maybe I just confused friendship chemistry between Billy and Marg into sexual chemistry. But...you can't deny that Grissom and Sara fit together like two chocolate chip cookies. I just wish that they could have some more fire in their relationship.
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Desertwind said:
Beings I'm an avid fan and have watched this how since the onset, I was not only going by what the writers planned, & brought on Jorja Fox to be Grissom's 'love interest' but what Billy Petersen said, constantly' About the " in his final arc Sara was involved". Plus, I loved watching them together, they had so much in common. I never saw anything between him and Cath they were always at each others throats. Argued about almost everything. He put her on supension & she always had a furrowed brow when he was professing his ideas and theories. And visa versa he sure didn't get her at all. And on LH that was a cheap shot joke. Talk about different. To me she was a bewitching thrill and a novelty, but they had absoutely nada in common.:confused: And not his type for a lifetime partner ever. His heart, mind, body and soul always belonged to only one woman SARA who he left his job to be with. And now their married:p
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Grissom and Catherine were NOT always at each other's throat. They rarely argued. Catherine got Grissom, more than anyone else. The did have sexual chemistry just like he had with Lady Heather. Could I see him and Catherine together, no, but the chemistry was there. She was his confidant, his strength and right-hand 'man'.

There was no and still isn't any sexual chemistry between him and Sara. He left his job for her and then she left him to go back to the job. What kind of marriage is that. All she wanted was Grissom to be with her and now that she has him, what does she do? Leave him to go back to Vegas. Sorry, but marriages where the partners are separated for a long time, don't end up working.

Personally, I don't care if Sara was brought in to be Grissom's love interest. Petersen himself said he didn't like it and had problems with Jora (or something like that). That might have changed and just because they brought her in for Grissom's love interest doesn't mean they had to go with it.

Besides if the audience loved Holly Gribbs instead of hating her, there would be NO Sara.

As for Lady Heather, there was major sexual chemistry between those two and despite what GSR fans thinks, they definitely slept together. Like Catherine, Lady Heather was the only other woman in Grissom's life that 'got' him.

Now if they had gone with Grissom and Sara in relationship in the earlier seasons, I 'might' have seen it, but not later. There was just no romantic chemistry. Chemistry as friends, co-workers, part of the team, yes, but romantically and sexually? NO!
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

The thing is that even though a person/character can be brought in to be someone else's love interest it doesn't necessarily has to be kept that way. If I were a CSI writer and came up with the idea of bringing on Sara as Grissom's love interest and saw the lack of chemistry as opposed to Catherine and Grissom's chemistry I would've had no qualms in just screwing my original idea and working with what's in front of me. It's pretty common knowledge that the writers/producers often have many ideas before a show airs and not all of them come to fruition because some storylines just take a life of it's own and scream to get further developed thus others have to be forgotten. Other storylines simply do not develop because of lack of time or because after establishing the show's format they just don't go with the flow. A lot of things can happen to change stories so having something established before the show doesn't mean it HAS to happen.

I put myself as example (if I were a CSI writer) because I know that chemistry is subjective and even though I don't see it, and don't think I ever will, between Sara and Grissom, doesn't mean the writers didn't. They must have felt or seen something to go with the storyline because they ended up doing it. Or maybe once they started it there was no going back and had to work with trying to make it half believable. As an anti-shipper that's my theory.

Now, having said all that, do I believe 100% that Cath and Griss would've worked as a couple? I don't know, but unfortunately I never will. I do think she brought out a naughty, interesting side of him. And I agree that they were not always on each other's throats, just the opposite. They got each other even though they were indeed very different, which is what I thought made them so interesting to watch.
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Personally, I don't care if Sara was brought in to be Grissom's love interest. Petersen himself said he didn't like it and had problems with Jora (or something like that). That might have changed and just because they brought her in for Grissom's love interest doesn't mean they had to go with it.
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I agree but it gained popularity amongst a large number of fans and since it's all about ratings, that's where the decision to focus the show on came from and the fact that they probably monitored online discussions and saw how heated the nonGSR vs. GSR fans became, it fed this mentality. Any publicity is better than none. TPTB ate it all up.

It's not the first time this has happened to a show. It happened with Families Ties when Michael J. Fox became the centre of it.

The difference here was that the other characters had a lot of fans as well and this group was ignored. I fel this created a real divide between fans. But TPTB loved it because it meant their show was being discussed which meant it was relevant. Once a show loses its relevancy, it's all downhill for it.

It's all about money, sadly.

I personaly never cared for GSR. It was so angst and too intense for my liking. No humour. It felt very forced and I agree with speedy, I didn't see any chemistry between them. I also felt the relationship didn't do a lot for Sara. I like her far more now on her own without Grissom. She's got back some of the exuberance that was lost there. We also get to see her work with different characters which is great. Sara is an interesting charcter overall, but I felt GSR just brought her down.

Different strokes for different folks.
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I willl be the first to say that I never saw romance between Catherine and Grissom.But IMO she understood Grissom character better then anybody.It's like when he left she said :"I knew before you knew".But sexual chemistry,only with Lady heather.I do not care if they slept together or not,the point is that he obviously wanted:drool:
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Even though I never wanted Grissom with Lady Heather I have to admit that there certainly was chemistry between them and they worked in this weird, twisted way :lol:.
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I'm going to agree with Speedy and the others here. I never recall Catherine and Grissom at each other's throats. Sure, Cath would get frustrated over some bureaucratic technicality that Grissom didn't do. Or give her an office the size of a closet :lol:. And Gris would be upset over Cath's involvement with Daddy Braun. But never were they gunning for each other.

I don't see those two as romantic interests, but there was chemistry of a different nature.

I generally don't like hatin' on GSR - mainly because I never had serious feelings for it one way or another - but if I had to choose, I'd wish they never did it. Grissom and Sara never really meshed for me.

I always felt that Greg was a better choice for Sara. He was the only one who consistently seemed to be able to make her smile. They were opposites in the good 'opposites-attract' way. His jovial and upbeat attitude generally counteracted her much more somber broodiness.

And Grissom was best with women who could call him out and, in-essence, make him uncomfortable by drawing him out of his safety zone. Lady Heather was great at that, as was Sofia Curtis. Sara conformed too much.
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

electra said:
I willl be the first to say that I never saw romance between Catherine and Grissom.But IMO she understood Grissom character better then anybody.It's like when he left she said :"I knew before you knew".But sexual chemistry,only with Lady heather.I do not care if they slept together or not,the point is that he obviously wanted:drool:
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Exactly, Electra! And oh he definitely wanted it with Heather. ;)

HipHugger, I whole heartedly agree with you.

Praetor, good points. He was best with women that called him out, Heather, Sofia, and Catherine did that. Though I'm glad they never went the route of Catherine and Grissom being involved. I enjoyed their relationship just how it was. I loved when she got under his skin. After all Catherine is the one that said to Grissom: "Do I know how to turn you on or what?" :lol: Yup, I believe her and Heather are the only one's who could accomplish that. :thumbsup:

As for Greg and Sara, Jorja said herself that if Sara didn't end up with Grissom she would have probably been with Greg, so there you go.
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

PraetorCorvinus
And Grissom was best with women who could call him out and, in-essence, make him uncomfortable by drawing him out of his safety zone. Lady Heather was great at that, as was Sofia Curtis. Sara conformed too much.
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Hmm I'd never thought of it that way and it makes total sense. I have to add Cath to that mix of the women who drew him out of his safety zone :eek:. That's a great way to look at it.

We were typing at the same time speedystokesgirl :lol:

speedystokesgirl
After all Catherine is the one that said to Grissom: "Do I know how to turn you on or what?" :lol: Yup, I believe her and Heather are the only one's who could accomplish that.
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Yep I agree!! :lol:
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I think Praetor nailed it saying that Gissom was better with women that took him out of his comfort zone.Catherine and Grissom was one of the best relationship of the whole show(not romantic).Sara and Grissom as a couple was too much doom and gloom for me.They were obviously close but I never got the feelling that he WANTED her like he did with LH or what happened between Catherine with Warrick.
 
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