CSI:NY Spoiler Discussion - Bring on Season 6!

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I love Flack and Stella together. They have a good friendship and I think they play off each other well. I also like Flack and Danny. Their scenes really make me laugh. With Danny in a wheelchair and Flack throwing himself into work I hope we still get to see some of their lighter moments this season.
I'm always hoping for good Danny/Flack scenes, be they lighter stuff or something more serious. I loved the scene in (I think it was) 3.23 where they were playing pool. I'd like to see them joking around, but it's definitely on my wishlist to see them have at least one good, serious friendship scene. Their friendship was established during the very first episode of the show, and sometimes I think we're left to assume that they're still friends too much. It's easy to say, 'Oh, I'm sure they talked about such-and-such', but I hope TPTB include more moments where we can see that kind of thing.

Flack/Stella scenes are always good, though.

But like you said about Ginny-identifiers possibly finding it insulting to consider Harry with someone other than Ginny...had Harry actually chosen someone other than Ginny, as he did for a while (and kind of like what Danny did with Rikki), there probably would've been tons more backlash against Harry from H/G fans.
And backlash against The Other Woman, too - we women can be vicious. :lol:

but wouldn't it suggest that the character the fan is self-identifying with is the stronger draw? Since their fan-girl/fan-boy-love is somewhat conditional for the boyfriend-character?
Yes and no, I guess it depends on the individual. Overall, I'd say some people are more drawn to the character they can easily self-insert as, but it doesn't necessarily imply that the character is better written or executed (popularity is always debatable, I suppose). If the point is for the character to be the blankest canvas for people to utilize, or the most generic and unoffensive (in the sense of maybe not having strong characteristics that limit the number of fans who might identify with him/her) - then I suppose one could argue that the most self-identified-with character is a stronger draw for fans, but...yeah, I dunno, I'm rambling. :lol:

A classic self-insert character is probably pretty vanilla in the scope of ice cream flavors - whereas other characters might be more taste-specific flavors (like mocha chip or something :p) with a smaller pool of potential self-insert fans.

Anyway, that was off on a tangent - for fans who see characters a certain way, a character they can easily self-insert as would be a stronger draw than perhaps the boyfriend/girlfriend character. But that's just for that particular part of the whole fan spectrum. Other fans would assess the various characters differently. (Some people are drawn to the most love-em-or-hate-em characters, like Hodges over on CSI; some people are drawn to the strongest female characters, like Stella; some people are more drawn to male characters than to female characters; the list goes on.)

We're all unique. We're like snowflakes. :lol: But to be serious, if we're all assessing the characters differently, we're going to judge them as 'good' or 'bad' characters (as far as how they're written and acted and whatnot) based on our own set of criteria. Some people think Lindsay (as the most relevant example) is perfectly written, others think the characterization leaves a lot to be desired - and then whether a person thinks the character herself is a great person or someone who needs to be redeemed is a separate issue that depends on the individual.

Adam and Flack were in the scene together, before Flack goes off to find Stella. It's possible they might've just been passing in the hallway, but I'm optimistic! The scenes they've had together so far are so great.
That would be nice, to have a scene between the two of them so early in the season. They aren't two people who have a lot of reason to interact, but it's nice when it works out that way. :)

Scenes with Flack and pretty much anyone are really excellent (even Flack/Mac scenes, though I'm getting a little bored with those because there are so many), imo.
I'd like to see another scene where Flack and Hawkes kind of tease each other. I know some people hated the scene in "Sleight Out of Hand", but I enjoyed it. I think they're so different that you never quite know what'll happen when they interact with each other. (I'm amazed that the writers haven't been tempted to have more of them together. It would probably be a ton of fun to write scenes for certain groups or pairings and see how it all plays out - I know it's fun in fanfiction, so it's gotta be fun during the real thing. :lol:)
 
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Originally Posted by Faylinn:
Yes and no, I guess it depends on the individual. Overall, I'd say some people are more drawn to the character they can easily self-insert as, but it doesn't necessarily imply that the character is better written or executed (popularity is always debatable, I suppose). If the point is for the character to be the blankest canvas for people to utilize, or the most generic and unoffensive (in the sense of maybe not having strong characteristics that limit the number of fans who might identify with him/her) - then I suppose one could argue that the most self-identified-with character is a stronger draw for fans, but...yeah, I dunno, I'm rambling. :lol:
Oh no, that's definitely true; self-insert characters are rarely that well-written (I certainly don't think Lindsay is better-written than Danny is, also to use a relevant example), that's definitely not what I meant by "the stronger draw"; as in, the self-insert character being the more popular one. I just meant that character may be "the stronger draw for the fan(s) who is self-inserting", rather than the boyfriend-character being that stronger draw for the fan. (Oh gosh, I hope that sentence was clear :alienblush:) Because thinking on it, though self-insert characters usually aren't well written or even well-fleshed-out, they almost always seem to have a rather chaotic effect on fans, in every fandom I've been in. That makes perfect sense, that the blanker the slate, the easier some might find it to "pretend they're the character", so to speak, even though the character may not be that fleshed out or well-executed. However...it's completely true that there are a thousand factors drawing fans to any character, even a self-insert character. Just speaking for myself, there's a lot in Lindsay that I empathize, and therefore sympathize with, but I don't see myself as her. I do think there are a lot of fans who see themselves as her, though, so I'm just figuring out how they're being drawn to her. But agh, I'll probably never know.

I'd like to see another scene where Flack and Hawkes kind of tease each other. I know some people hated the scene in "Sleight Out of Hand", but I enjoyed it. I think they're so different that you never quite know what'll happen when they interact with each other. (I'm amazed that the writers haven't been tempted to have more of them together. It would probably be a ton of fun to write scenes for certain groups or pairings and see how it all plays out - I know it's fun in fanfiction, so it's gotta be fun during the real thing. :lol:
:eek: Why would anyone hate the "Sleight Out of Hand" scene? That's one of my favourite scenes - it was so hilarious :lol: I would love to see a Flack/Hawkes scene too...I'm really puzzled by their relationship. For the longest time I thought they were pretty good friends, because of the joking in "Sleight Out of Hand", and because aside from Stella (who showed up at the scene in "You Only Die Once"), Hawkes was the first to know about Flack's new girlfriend in 4.03. But Flack seems to prize loyalty fairly highly, yet he kind of "ratted" Hawkes out to Mac in "Help" (about Hawkes making all those 911 phone calls on the rapist years ago), rather than going to Hawkes first like Adam did to him in "Veritas"...

Yes I know I sound like the geekiest fan, memorizing all this :alienblush::lol:
 
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Geeky fan? Look where you are, bb - geeky fans are more than welcome. :lol:

I think people had a problem with the tone in the "Sleight Out of Hand" conversation - or at least, some people interpreted their interaction differently than I did. (Specifically, the part where Hawkes said something like 'I would if I thought you knew what it meant' or something similar. I took it as ribbing, but other people thought it was more mean-spirited.)

I just meant that character may be "the stronger draw for the fan(s) who is self-inserting", rather than the boyfriend-character being that stronger draw for the fan. (Oh gosh, I hope that sentence was clear :alienblush:)
I get what you're saying. For 9 cases out of 10 (or 99 out of 100 or some other majority number), the person probably self-inserts for the character him/herself, so the self-insert character is the bigger draw. For the other 1 out of 10, if the purpose of self-inserting is to be with the boy/girlfriend that is super hot and sexy-ful, then it might be a different story.
 
I get what you're saying. For 9 cases out of 10 (or 99 out of 100 or some other majority number), the person probably self-inserts for the character him/herself, so the self-insert character is the bigger draw. For the other 1 out of 10, if the purpose of self-inserting is to be with the boy/girlfriend that is super hot and sexy-ful, then it might be a different story.

May i tell my experience? as a member of the Startrek fandom (I choose it as an example because we had several characters) every fan in Conventions adopted completely his/her fav character. For example my fav was Counselor Troi and unconciously i gave the welcome to new members just like she did. So yes, i do think and i do believe in self insert in that case
But i am not sure always that happens. I mean, i love Stella, i feel passion defending her but my story doesn't have anything to do with hers and i am happy with my own career, I love Mac but definitely i do reckon the difference between fiction and real so i don't self insert because of him either. So sometimes i guess there is space for loving a character for no more reasons than ...finding it interesting?

I am curious about it because i do love Stella with all my heart but the self insert doesn't describe my own experience here (not i can tell anyway)
 
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Please can everyone take note of the reminder posted below. As it's a new season and we've got lots of new spoilers coming out, I just thought I'd remind our new and old members alike about the guidelines to keep in mind when posting spoilers. Thanks. :)

Please keep these guidelines in mind when posting spoilers:

1. Please do not name sources if they're not major magazines (TV Guide, Entertainment Weekly, etc.) or well-known web columns like Ask Ausiello or Kristin at E! Online. Keep in mind that naming sources aside from these makes it likely that those sources will dry up.

2. Please do not link to any site illegally posting copyrighted material.

3. Please use good judgment when posting spoilers. Giving away the ending of an episode goes beyond "spoiling" an interesting moment-it ruins the episode. People want detail like "Danny kisses Lindsay's forehead," not episode ruining plot points like "Mac finds out the butler did it with a candlestick in the drawing room." ;)
 
Ditto! Guys, if you mention spoiler sources by name (like the ones posted at that other site), we run the risk of those sources drying up. Just refer to them vaguely ("spoilers I saw" or "spoilers I read at Spoiler TV"). If those sources dry up, that would suck. :p And per the reminder, use discretion in what you post about. Don't give away the end or the killer's identity or something big like that. Common sense stuff, but use it.

Very interesting discussion in here. I'll jump in a bit... on the issue of self-insertion, I think Bella from Twilight is a perfect example. She's that average, not-so-popular girl who gets the dark, dangerous handsome guy--and not even just him. All the guys are falling all over themselves to be with her, to the point where it's more than a little absurd. I do see some of that in Lindsay--thankfully, not in the "all the guys falling all over themselves" part, but definitely with her getting the sexpot on the show. Not saying that everyone who likes the character or the DL pairing is like that at all--but I think there's an element of that type in Lindsay that appeals to some. I'm probably repeating what others have said!

I liked the scene with Flack and Hawkes in SooH, but I did pick up on an undercurrent of tension there. They're pretty different types of guys. I've never seen them as being that close, but then the only ones I think Flack is really close to are Danny and Stella, and to some extent Mac. I do like seeing Flack and Stella work together, because I think they're made from the same mold in terms of toughness. And I want to see Flack and Danny interact a lot. I'm very curious to see how Flack behaves towards Danny post-shooting. He was already pretty darn protective before that happened--I can't imagine how he's going to be afterwards! I'm looking forward to seeing that.
 
ETA: From TVGuide.com

What's next for CSI: NY's Det. Flack, after Det. Angell's death? Will we see him grieve? Clarisse
TIM: Hey, he's a tough guy, but he's not a machine. Expect to see everyone who knew Angell to mourn her loss — and for Flack to deal with it by focusing on his work. His best tribute to her, he decides, is to be the best cop he can be.
Source

Noooo! This makes me so mad! It sounds to me as if they're going to sweep it under the rug, probably to make way for the Danny-in-a-wheelchair story to grow and take over the first half of the season. :( I bet we don't get any decent Flack scenes/storylines until the season is almost over, then they'll do a rush job and cram as much into one episode as is possible. :scream: Bah Humbug! I hope I'm wrong.
 
ETA: From TVGuide.com

What's next for CSI: NY's Det. Flack, after Det. Angell's death? Will we see him grieve? Clarisse
TIM: Hey, he's a tough guy, but he's not a machine. Expect to see everyone who knew Angell to mourn her loss — and for Flack to deal with it by focusing on his work. His best tribute to her, he decides, is to be the best cop he can be.
Source

Noooo! This makes me so mad! It sounds to me as if they're going to sweep it under the rug, probably to make way for the Danny-in-a-wheelchair story to grow and take over the first half of the season. :( I bet we don't get any decent Flack scenes/storylines until the season is almost over, then they'll do a rush job and cram as much into one episode as is possible. :scream: Bah Humbug! I hope I'm wrong.

I AM TOTALLY WITH YOU!!! as soon as i read the article i was so mad, i was all, well this is great there just gonna pretend it ever happened, except for like one episode in which it is only 2 seconds long!!!! I really really hope that everything is dealt with in a good way!!!!
 
Noooo! This makes me so mad! It sounds to me as if they're going to sweep it under the rug, probably to make way for the Danny-in-a-wheelchair story to grow and take over the first half of the season. :( I bet we don't get any decent Flack scenes/storylines until the season is almost over, then they'll do a rush job and cram as much into one episode as is possible. :scream: Bah Humbug! I hope I'm wrong.
I cant imagine they will do that. There is so much material they can get from this outcome of Jess dying. That would be somewhat foolish if you ask me.
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^ Agreed, Lori. And what would have been the point of killing a character that had impact on every character, specially Flack, if not to use these opportunities?! It wouldn't make sense to me.

Oh, and I told my fiancé (who doesn't watch CSI:NY regulary) about the Flack spoiler and even him said that it wasn't Flack to dwelve into work. So, if a very non regular viewer can see that... I wonder why TPTB couldn't? Again, we don't know for sure what they plan with this "be the best cop he can be" spoiler. So vague and... blah. :lol:
 
very[/I] non regular viewer can see that... I wonder why TPTB couldn't? Again, we don't know for sure what they plan with this "be the best cop he can be" spoiler. So vague and... blah. :lol:

Maybe Flack being the best cop he can be is him being to into work, you know, maybe a little rough, i mean rougher than usual... lol but in all seriousness, i think maybe thats what there hinting too, he'll just be way into work
 
^^ I can totally see the mini mac in there, maybe one of flacks big things will be somthing along the lines of unshaven, and they might even get so crazy as to make his tie and suit scheme... get ready for it... actually match!!!!! *GASP* sry i couldn't resist haha
 
Hahaha! Oh man, if he comes at work with his clothes all wrinkle, unshaved, obvious signs that he doesn't sleep much or at all... :devil: I think he'll have an even more short temper than usual if that's possible LOL
 
^^ I can totally see the mini mac in there, maybe one of flacks big things will be somthing along the lines of unshaven, and they might even get so crazy as to make his tie and suit scheme... get ready for it... actually match!!!!! *GASP* sry i couldn't resist haha

haha, brilliant :lol:

i agree though, i don't want flack to become mini mac - i love mac but there's only one of him and anyway flack's really cool in his own right. if they rehash all the old mac being a workaholic stuff it'll be pretty crap. i agree with previous posts that i think flack's reactions are more likely to be anger and maybe even becoming quite harsh than suddenly pushing paper.
 
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