CSI: NY Season 6 Spoiler Discussion - Bright Lights, Big City

[Top41]

Has this been post before? If so, I'm sorry, feel free to delete this message:

6.11, "Second Chances", press release

It hasn't been posted before! Ahhhh, the infamous stunt casting fest. I'm a little scared. Not a single one of these people has any acting cred.

Probably the way TPTB would handle it, yeah, how quickly he'd get over his issues might feel like a cheat. But honestly, I don't think they're doing much better sweeping them under the rug right now with his marriage. I guess I just really like self-awareness in characters -- part of what interests me in Lindsay is how she seems pretty aware of her issues, and her limitations. Mac seems to have gained that level of self-awareness in S3 and S4, and that's when I really started liking him, Adam and Flack are extremely self-aware already.

Yeah, Danny is definitely the only one who doesn't exhibit some sort of self-awareness... he's really just a child in many ways. I feel like his issues are just as present in his marriage as they were beforehand... maybe they're not as highlighted, but they're certainly there, and every time he tries to conceal something from Lindsay, it's brought to the forefront.

Yeah, it sucks that of all those characters, Mac (who's the lead) is the only one we've actually seen gain self-awareness, but I just don't think it'd take all that much for Danny to do the same, and imo it'd be a neat thing to see.

It would be, if done right. But I think Danny is more damaged than what can be fixed over an episode or even a series of episodes. I'd love to see it delved into, but maybe in a way that reveals the root of it and then slowly tries to show him working on trusting people. It seems like a really hard thing to learn, especially at Danny's age.

The problem is his scenes were about thirty seconds long (if that) in a lot of the S3 episodes (right up to "Heart of Glass"), and again, they were the obligatory autopsy scenes. But he was in every one. Honestly, the only episodes I remember not seeing Sid at all are from S1, of course, and S2 (everything up til "Dancing with the Fishes", "Trapped", and "Charge of this Post"). And then there's S6.

I'll admit, I totally don't remember either way--I thought Hawkes had stood in for him in a couple of eps (one where Hawkes was using the virtual autopsy?).

Perhaps; maybe they're just overlooking her character this season. I'd hesitate to say that doing so for long won't alienate their DL fanbase; the ones I've spoken with seem to be getting increasingly p*ssed too, but I don't know all that many, and certainly can't speak for any, let alone all of them.

It might, but I think that there's a perception that if Danny and Lindsay kiss or share a cute moment every few episodes, that will be enough.

But characters who don't develop during their stories (well, characters that readers/viewers/etc would generally expect to see develop) always get critiqued just for that, and the flack usually falls on the writer. Whether it's fanfiction, published writing, theatre plays, film, tv.
It drove me crazy how Aiden got little to no development before she left the show, and I didn't even like Angell, but I called bad writing on her -- again, the no development. Writing that's not there is just the same as bad writing when handling characters. Not even having the excuse of saying that they just "forgot about the character", though (ie, by sidelining Lindsay with DL, they'd clearly be remembering the character, they just wouldn't develop her on purpose)....definitely bad writing.

I guess what makes me unable to call it bad writing is how well developed the majority of the lead characters are--everyone except for Lindsay, basically. I never found Aiden poorly developed--I liked her toughness, and that it wasn't unrealistic. She was sassy, but new enough that she could be intimidated. Street-smart and savvy, and protective of Danny in that way everyone who meets and cares about Danny seems to be.

Angell was just a recurring character, but I loved how she took no guff from anyone, ever. The way she totally confident enough to bust Flack on trying his game out on her... and yet make him feel pretty good about it, too, afterwards.

And I think Mac, Stella, Danny, Flack, Adam, Hawkes, even Sid... they're all very well-developed. So that's what makes me trip on calling Lindsay's lack of development bad writing. How could the writers write so well for all of the other characters... and not for Lindsay?

I can't see the sense of risking the critique and writing around a bad actress, when they've gotten rid of characters involved in relationships before...if it were just the relationship that attracted the fans, I'd get rid of the bad actress, stick Danny with another girl, and wait for the ratings to come in. But that's just me.

Oh, me too. I probably would have gotten rid of her after her atrocious performance in "All Access." But then... she was pretty good in "Stealing Home." Objectively, she's not the world's worst actress. She just has so much less charm and charisma than someone else they might have gotten for the role. But by the time that was really apparent, it was well into season three.

But that'd be so annoying :lol: (letting her fall into that BHC, especially now that they've got Adam tied in with her new-girl story). If they had to hire her, I'd rather see them flesh Haylen out. I do see the point about the lack of diversity, though; S2 wasn't horrible at the beginning in terms of that, but the show hasn't felt like an authentic New York City for a while now.

Maybe, though I think Adam being tied in with the storyline is the last reason I want to see Haylen back. Do we really need a repeat of the Kendall dynamic? Unless it's going to get more interesting, I don't see any reason to really go that route, either.

Yeah, but not just hers. And well, she wasn't pregnant at the end of S5, plus there was all that hype about a character possibly leaving the show, since they were all getting their contracts renewed (I think). I obviously have no idea what the real issue was there, but I do think that if they were waiting for a chance to get rid of her, they just missed a pretty golden one.

If Anna has a typical six year contract, hers won't expire until the end of season seven. And I think the worry was probably all smoke and mirrors... I highly doubt any of those actors weren't told they were fine, that they were coming back--especially since the plan all along was to have Danny get shot.

This'll probably get back to my not seeing her as being particularly uneven in S2 (she was uneven in S3, but that's another issue), but what exactly is she consistently doing now with Danny that she couldn't possibly do with another character? I agree they might be keeping Lindsay as "light" this season, and she's fun when she's "light". But they've done that before, and with more characters than just him. I'm actually particularly disappointed with this season because they seemed to be doing pretty well with her development last season in getting her to that be-there-for-others stage, again, not just with Danny. Yeah, it's only the first half of the season right now, so I can't write it off completely; but limiting all that to him now -- I don't see a specific design in that, I think that's just flat-out laziness.

I've never really seen her that connected with anyone besides Danny, save for Mac. Her scenes with Stella always feel so awkward to me, and I just don't see that deep a bond between her and any other character on the show. She had some nice stuff with Mac early on.

With the economic crisis, I'm thinking there has to be at least a bit of an issue; it just seems odd that quite a few characters were cut from the CSI franchise this year, because I don't remember ever seeing that many cuts all at once. It probably isn't as big a problem as they implied it to be (although that really sucks for all the actors they've cut loose because of it!), but if it was, it might just have been better to capitalize (story-wise) on the characters that had to go.

Yeah, but there were a bunch of adds as well--more adds than cuts, really. Miami is the only one with significant new characters--and I think the show has really benefitted from it.

 

[Maya316]

They're bringing in pop groups again in 6.11 :shifty: It's Train this time, so I won't complain (but the Maroon 5 one in "Page Turner" still makes me shudder...can't stand them).

Originally Posted by Top41:
Yeah, Danny is definitely the only one who doesn't exhibit some sort of self-awareness... he's really just a child in many ways. I feel like his issues are just as present in his marriage as they were beforehand... maybe they're not as highlighted, but they're certainly there, and every time he tries to conceal something from Lindsay, it's brought to the forefront.

LOL, very true about Danny. I've always felt that Stella, too, lacks that self-awareness, though, despite her many storylines. Not nearly to the same extent as Danny, but there are times when she goes off and either doesn't seem to understand herself why she's going off, or isn't able to explain her reasons to anyone else. If they're still doing that "reckless" storyline they've got planned for her this season -- what happened to that, btw? -- I think that might play a part in it; I doubt she'll know why she's reacting so badly to the bar shooting, but it'll be interesting seeing her figure it out. Assuming they let her, of course.

I have to admit that part of my Danny issue is just how unrealistic it is that anyone would stay in a marriage where there's no trust. On either side, imo (get lied to by omission enough times, and I can't see how any trust she has left wouldn't plummet). So yeah, I can believe it'll come to the forefront, but neither of them doing anything about it? Nonsensical, even by TVland standards.:shifty: Not that I'd put it past the show; but still.

It would be, if done right. But I think Danny is more damaged than what can be fixed over an episode or even a series of episodes. I'd love to see it delved into, but maybe in a way that reveals the root of it and then slowly tries to show him working on trusting people. It seems like a really hard thing to learn, especially at Danny's age.

True; if he's been this way for most of his life, it's probably not (realistically) fixable without a lot of work. But yeah, something like that is exactly what I'd love to see -- at least having the root of his issues revealed to Danny, so he knows what's going on with him. If they take it further by showing him working to trust people, that might mean he'd know enough to let other people also know what's going on -- I mean, I think a few of them can guess, but I'm not sure any of them really know his issues.

I'll admit, I totally don't remember either way--I thought Hawkes had stood in for him in a couple of eps (one where Hawkes was using the virtual autopsy?).

*finds geek hat, wears*:lol: Yup, but those were from this season -- the one where Hawkes was using the virtual autopsy was "Blacklist". I only just remember because Sid's my favourite coroner :alienblush:

I guess what makes me unable to call it bad writing is how well developed the majority of the lead characters are--everyone except for Lindsay, basically. I never found Aiden poorly developed--I liked her toughness, and that it wasn't unrealistic. She was sassy, but new enough that she could be intimidated. Street-smart and savvy, and protective of Danny in that way everyone who meets and cares about Danny seems to be.

Angell was just a recurring character, but I loved how she took no guff from anyone, ever. The way she totally confident enough to bust Flack on trying his game out on her... and yet make him feel pretty good about it, too, afterwards.

And I think Mac, Stella, Danny, Flack, Adam, Hawkes, even Sid... they're all very well-developed. So that's what makes me trip on calling Lindsay's lack of development bad writing. How could the writers write so well for all of the other characters... and not for Lindsay?

Well, I guess when I say character development here, I'm speaking of character growth. I mean, I do understand the character development you're speaking of, like the fleshing/rounding-out of a character -- in that sense I totally agree that Aiden and the other main characters have been very well-developed; Aiden was extremely well-rounded as a character, realistic, flawed, and far more than one-note, as are the others. In this respect, even Lindsay's fleshed out; like her or not, she's far from one-note now. I've mentioned before, though, that I attribute that more to Anna Belknap than to the writing, because her lines were extremely one-note in early S2. [Angell I disagree on -- sure she was tough and confident and sassy and whatnot; did we ever see her be anything else? Or take initiative to contribute an original thought process (or anything else) to an investigation? I think the one time that came even close was when she asked Danny about Ruben in "Happily Never After" -- ie, the one time I almost liked her -- and even that seemed fairly generic, rather than something that seemed like it could be originally, typically Angell. I just don't feel they did much to flesh her out. Digressing, though].

Character growth, where characters deal with something and either change or learn from it; we've seen most of the other characters go through it (maybe not Sid, although the Marty Pino storyline, I felt, was excellent in terms of that; and I was so hoping they'd continue with it this season). Growth development, though, was something Aiden got very little of -- very little affected her life to make her act differently in the future. Until the storyline that had her leaving the show, the only thing I can think of is the story where she got chased away from the pizza parlour ("Officer Blue"?). Till now they've done great with Lindsay's growth, it's one of the best things about her imo -- but they've limited a lot of it to Danny, and particularly this season all of it seems relegated to (and basically, stopped with) him. Again, I see it as limiting, and if they do stop her development there just because she's the 'perfect wife' I don't see how that wouldn't be an example of bad writing. Especially since she will be one-note at that point.

Oh, me too. I probably would have gotten rid of her after her atrocious performance in "All Access." But then... she was pretty good in "Stealing Home." Objectively, she's not the world's worst actress. She just has so much less charm and charisma than someone else they might have gotten for the role. But by the time that was really apparent, it was well into season three.

I don't know, I thought she had plenty of that charm in S4 (until the Danny-drama, anyway) and even S5; they keep speaking of it on the commentaries of the dvds (except S5's, I think). But I guess a huge part of picturing another person in the role is that I don't see where else they really would've gone with Lindsay's character had there not been that aloof depth to her, if she'd just stayed peppy and Danny-flirting throughout. Honestly, I'm not sure she'd've lasted any longer than Riley or Tara did. She wasn't that well-rounded when she was first added.

Maybe, though I think Adam being tied in with the storyline is the last reason I want to see Haylen back. Do we really need a repeat of the Kendall dynamic? Unless it's going to get more interesting, I don't see any reason to really go that route, either.

Oh, I liked Kendall :lol: I enjoyed the way they played off of each other; but no, the last thing needed is another codependent character. I meant more that I thought they were going somewhere with Adam's insecurity about Haylen, and grating over her overconfidence (with the team letting him know that he was irreplaceable and all). It's how I saw things, anyway, but I'm not really looking forward to another storyline dropping into the abyss.

I've never really seen her that connected with anyone besides Danny, save for Mac. Her scenes with Stella always feel so awkward to me, and I just don't see that deep a bond between her and any other character on the show. She had some nice stuff with Mac early on.

I guess I'd really like to see her get back to the point she was at in early S4; she had some good stuff there. She hasn't really connected with anyone else on the team, but she was getting there. She had a great rapport with Hawkes in S3 and the first half of S4, and she was making the effort with Stella; we saw her do so on several occasions (I know you don't see them as close, and I don't think they're exactly BFFs either; but other than Mac, she was the only one who knew about Drew until they all found out he was the psycho-stalker.). And they were getting back to that again in S5. I've always seen the reason she's not that connected with anyone as her having trouble reaching out to people -- if she can do it with Danny now, why not with anyone else? I'm really not seeing how those kinds of scenes would come off differently if it were someone other than Danny sharing them with her, and I'd rather see someone other than Danny sharing them. The scenes where she's with Danny are her most boring, imo. It seems less a case of writing around an issue, and more one of them sticking with what they're interested in writing about when it comes to Lindsay. Which, yeah, I still see as laziness.

Yeah, but there were a bunch of adds as well--more adds than cuts, really. Miami is the only one with significant new characters--and I think the show has really benefitted from it.

I miss Eric (not Tara so much), but I do agree that Miami -- and the other shows -- have benefited from the adds. It's weird trying to reconcile all the new adds with the limited (or nonexistent) screentime they're all getting now. It feels like there's a budget reason behind that, but I can't see how.

 

[Brinchen]

Oh boy, is it bad I gave up on reading every single post fully? :lol: Still as I see the discussion is up I wanted to use a quick chance and post as well before I have to hurry to work. I can say that showing Lindsay here and there definitely is not enough for me. As I said before, I liked her a long time before I started shipping her with Danny (she was basically the first character I liked of the show when I started watching it). I would be so happy if we got at least a few of the storylines we have been discussing in the Anna thread. Like cases she could lead or anything else that could show us more of her. Which is why I liked last week's episode as we got to see more of her in my opinion. I would be happy if we got to see an episode like Stealing Home again. She has the tendency to get obsessed with cases and getting answers and she still is showing that occasionally. It's something they could work with. As someone who ships DL because I love Danny and Lindsay equally, I'm wishing for storylines as a couple but also for them as individuals. I think she really deserves moren screentime, definitely. Okay, really should hurry now. :lol: About the press release, I don't really know what to think about the stunt casts. Oh well.

 

[csimania19]

just in from fancast. nothing new really. lol.

Not much scoop has been given on 'CSI NY' 10th episode, “Death House.” Got anything? - Clarissa
I’m sorry, what was the question again? I got distracted by the set-up for Episode 13, which involves a bevy of beautiful - if murderous - lingerie league football players.

 

[Lori K.]

What is the big mystery about episode ten anyway? And I thought the reality twins who ever they are were in the next episode? But I see they are in second chances?

 

[~Sarah~]

What is the big mystery about episode ten anyway?

THE CSIs FOLLOW UP ON A 911 CALL TO A VACANT PENTHOUSE BUT FIND A NEARLY 100-YEAR-OLD CORPSE AND A BOOBY-TRAPPED HOUSE, ON “CSI: NY,” WEDNESDAY, DEC. 9 “Death House” – A frantic 911 call sends the CSIs into a vacant penthouse; however, instead of finding the caller, they unearth a nearly 100-year-old corpse and find themselves navigating their way through a booby-trapped house, on CSI: NY, Wednesday, Dec. 9 (10:00-11:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.
SERIES REGULARS:

• Det. Mac Taylor…………………… …. Gary Sinise
• Det. Stella Bonasera……… Melina Kanakaredes
• Danny Messer………………. Carmine Giovinazzo
• Dr. Sheldon Hawkes………………….. Hill Harper
• Det. Don Flack……………………….. Eddie Cahill
• Lindsay Monroe……………………. Anna Belknap
• Adam Ross……………………………… AJ Buckley
• Dr. Sid Hammerback…………………. Robert Joy

GUEST CAST:

• Deborah Meade………………………. Ella Thomas

WRITTEN BY: JP Donahue and Kevin Polay
DIRECTED BY: Norberto Barba

 

[Railynn]

What is the big mystery about episode ten anyway?

THE CSIs FOLLOW UP ON A 911 CALL TO A VACANT PENTHOUSE BUT FIND A NEARLY 100-YEAR-OLD CORPSE AND A BOOBY-TRAPPED HOUSE, ON “CSI: NY,” WEDNESDAY, DEC. 9 “Death House” – A frantic 911 call sends the CSIs into a vacant penthouse; however, instead of finding the caller, they unearth a nearly 100-year-old corpse and find themselves navigating their way through a booby-trapped house, on CSI: NY, Wednesday, Dec. 9 (10:00-11:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS Television Network.
SERIES REGULARS:

• Det. Mac Taylor…………………… …. Gary Sinise
• Det. Stella Bonasera……… Melina Kanakaredes
• Danny Messer………………. Carmine Giovinazzo
• Dr. Sheldon Hawkes………………….. Hill Harper
• Det. Don Flack……………………….. Eddie Cahill
• Lindsay Monroe……………………. Anna Belknap
• Adam Ross……………………………… AJ Buckley
• Dr. Sid Hammerback…………………. Robert Joy

GUEST CAST:

• Deborah Meade………………………. Ella Thomas

WRITTEN BY: JP Donahue and Kevin Polay
DIRECTED BY: Norberto Barba

I thought episode ten was the episode with all the celebrities in it, like Kim whats her face, and that girl who dating Nick Lahey?? how come they dont show up on the press release, do I have the wrong episode??

 

[~Sarah~]

Second Chances is episode 11 which has the assorted MTV celebrities (Kim Kardashian, Vanessa Minnillo, Lala Vasquez) and Pat Monahan of Train.

 

[Top41]

Episode 11 is the one with all the celebs. Episode 10 is the one we don't know anything about. Interesting that there's only one guest star--that makes me think it will be a fun, team-intensive episode. I wonder if it will be anything like "Trapped" when Danny got stuck in the panic room. To this day, that's one of my favorite episodes of the show!

They're bringing in pop groups again in 6.11 :shifty: It's Train this time, so I won't complain (but the Maroon 5 one in "Page Turner" still makes me shudder...can't stand them).

I love Train! And their new single is so catchy.

LOL, very true about Danny. I've always felt that Stella, too, lacks that self-awareness, though, despite her many storylines. Not nearly to the same extent as Danny, but there are times when she goes off and either doesn't seem to understand herself why she's going off, or isn't able to explain her reasons to anyone else. If they're still doing that "reckless" storyline they've got planned for her this season -- what happened to that, btw? -- I think that might play a part in it; I doubt she'll know why she's reacting so badly to the bar shooting, but it'll be interesting seeing her figure it out. Assuming they let her, of course.

See, I thought they've always shown Stella knowing she's being reckless, but not caring. Or maybe not caring isn't the right way of putting it--she thinks about her actions, but if she gets pushed far enough, she's going to spring into action.

I have to admit that part of my Danny issue is just how unrealistic it is that anyone would stay in a marriage where there's no trust. On either side, imo (get lied to by omission enough times, and I can't see how any trust she has left wouldn't plummet). So yeah, I can believe it'll come to the forefront, but neither of them doing anything about it? Nonsensical, even by TVland standards.:shifty: Not that I'd put it past the show; but still.

The marriage really isn't very realistic at all. But I think Lindsay's whipped and Danny's just scared of being abandoned.

True; if he's been this way for most of his life, it's probably not (realistically) fixable without a lot of work. But yeah, something like that is exactly what I'd love to see -- at least having the root of his issues revealed to Danny, so he knows what's going on with him. If they take it further by showing him working to trust people, that might mean he'd know enough to let other people also know what's going on -- I mean, I think a few of them can guess, but I'm not sure any of them really know his issues.

I think he kind of willingly did trust Mac in RSRD--which was an advancement for him. He sort of confides in Flack, too, now and then, at least about his fears. But I think his default is to not trust--and he definitely doesn't trust Lindsay.

*finds geek hat, wears*:lol: Yup, but those were from this season -- the one where Hawkes was using the virtual autopsy was "Blacklist". I only just remember because Sid's my favourite coroner :alienblush:

I could have sworn the first time that virtual autopsy was introduced, it was Hawkes using it alone, but I will concede to your geek hat! Especially since I don't even remember the first episode we saw that in.

Well, I guess when I say character development here, I'm speaking of character growth. I mean, I do understand the character development you're speaking of, like the fleshing/rounding-out of a character -- in that sense I totally agree that Aiden and the other main characters have been very well-developed; Aiden was extremely well-rounded as a character, realistic, flawed, and far more than one-note, as are the others. In this respect, even Lindsay's fleshed out; like her or not, she's far from one-note now. I've mentioned before, though, that I attribute that more to Anna Belknap than to the writing, because her lines were extremely one-note in early S2.

I do the opposite--Anna was given heaps to work with. A dark secret, an office flirtation, a need to prove herself, a love of her work--and yet she couldn't maintain any kind of consistency from week to week. I feel like the writers made a character out of Lindsay in spite of Anna's weaknesses, albeit not a great one.

[Angell I disagree on -- sure she was tough and confident and sassy and whatnot; did we ever see her be anything else? Or take initiative to contribute an original thought process (or anything else) to an investigation? I think the one time that came even close was when she asked Danny about Ruben in "Happily Never After" -- ie, the one time I almost liked her -- and even that seemed fairly generic, rather than something that seemed like it could be originally, typically Angell. I just don't feel they did much to flesh her out. Digressing, though].

What about her concern for Flack with regards to his sister, her discretion in not pushing him to talk because she knew that wasn't a Flack thing to do, her brief moment of concern when people found out they were dating--that it would be more detrimental to her than him. A flash of insecurity that felt very real to me. Her willingness to bend the rules to help Stella? IMO, there was a lot to like there. Of course she wasn't as developed as the regs, but I think there was more to her than just toughness.

I don't know, I thought she had plenty of that charm in S4 (until the Danny-drama, anyway) and even S5; they keep speaking of it on the commentaries of the dvds (except S5's, I think). But I guess a huge part of picturing another person in the role is that I don't see where else they really would've gone with Lindsay's character had there not been that aloof depth to her, if she'd just stayed peppy and Danny-flirting throughout. Honestly, I'm not sure she'd've lasted any longer than Riley or Tara did. She wasn't that well-rounded when she was first added.

I think the aloofness was something they had to write around because Anna lacks warmth. If it was really a quality Lindsay has, why hasn't it been consistent? She wasn't really aloof until season three's storyline called for her to be.

Oh, I liked Kendall :lol: I enjoyed the way they played off of each other; but no, the last thing needed is another codependent character. I meant more that I thought they were going somewhere with Adam's insecurity about Haylen, and grating over her overconfidence (with the team letting him know that he was irreplaceable and all). It's how I saw things, anyway, but I'm not really looking forward to another storyline dropping into the abyss.

I didn't dislike Kendall, but I don't need to see the same dynamic replayed with Haylen.

I guess I'd really like to see her get back to the point she was at in early S4; she had some good stuff there. She hasn't really connected with anyone else on the team, but she was getting there. She had a great rapport with Hawkes in S3 and the first half of S4, and she was making the effort with Stella; we saw her do so on several occasions (I know you don't see them as close, and I don't think they're exactly BFFs either; but other than Mac, she was the only one who knew about Drew until they all found out he was the psycho-stalker.). And they were getting back to that again in S5. I've always seen the reason she's not that connected with anyone as her having trouble reaching out to people -- if she can do it with Danny now, why not with anyone else? I'm really not seeing how those kinds of scenes would come off differently if it were someone other than Danny sharing them with her, and I'd rather see someone other than Danny sharing them. The scenes where she's with Danny are her most boring, imo. It seems less a case of writing around an issue, and more one of them sticking with what they're interested in writing about when it comes to Lindsay. Which, yeah, I still see as laziness.

I think they've kind of stuck her in a corner so to speak, which I might be more irritated by were she a better character, and Anna a better actress. As it is, I kind of see it as damage control. That being said, I still think Anna does pretty decently with those seething anger scenes, or she did in "Stealing Home" and with hints of it in "Manhattanhenge." Something cool like seeing Lindsay have to fight to protect her husband and daughter could give her something to work with. If she did something that crossed the line, that could give her something to relate to Flack on--and maybe even drive a wedge between her and Danny. I'm not sure they'd go that route, though it would be an interesting one.

I miss Eric (not Tara so much), but I do agree that Miami -- and the other shows -- have benefited from the adds. It's weird trying to reconcile all the new adds with the limited (or nonexistent) screentime they're all getting now. It feels like there's a budget reason behind that, but I can't see how.

It could be the reason why we're not seeing Lindsay, Sid and Adam in every episode.

 

[talkingtocactus]

They're bringing in pop groups again in 6.11 :shifty: It's Train this time, so I won't complain (but the Maroon 5 one in "Page Turner" still makes me shudder...can't stand them).

haha, me too, i have to fast forward the whole intro to that ep, i just can't stand them!

Episode 11 is the one with all the celebs. Episode 10 is the one we don't know anything about. Interesting that there's only one guest star--that makes me think it will be a fun, team-intensive episode.

i hope so, it's kind of intriguing! hopefully it'll be intriguing in a good way

I could have sworn the first time that virtual autopsy was introduced, it was Hawkes using it alone, but I will concede to your geek hat! Especially since I don't even remember the first episode we saw that in.

i'm pretty sure it was first used in an ep where radiation was an issue, it was quite a while ago but i can't remember off the top of my head. maybe it was the maroon 5 one. actually i think it might've been because they had that weird bit where he and mac were standing by it and they zoomed in on the stomach and ended up surrounded by this dead body's stomach - niiiiice.

I didn't dislike Kendall, but I don't need to see the same dynamic replayed with Haylen.

i actually quite liked kendall, and i don't dislike haylen either, i guess it's just a question of waiting and seeing with her, as they've not had much of her yet. i always found it kind of sad that kendall was there and then just disappeared really quickly, because i liked her and adam's little rivalry-stroke-flirting thing.

I guess I'd really like to see her get back to the point she was at in early S4; she had some good stuff there. She hasn't really connected with anyone else on the team, but she was getting there.

i agree. i was watching s4 again recently and was really surprised in one ep in particular by how good she was! it seemed really out of character almost, which is a shame because i think that's how her character was supposed to be, especially compared to how she was in s2. it was commuted sentences - the stuff with danny on the museum steps was great, the home made slingshot resourcefulness, the fact that she teased him about having to recreate the shot etc, i thought it was good. it's weird, when she's good, she's really watchable, but it just doesn't seem to happen enough back in s2 she was one of my favourite characters - she was kind of cool and a bit cheeky and not afraid to speak her mind and now she's really forgettable.

 

[Top41]

i'm pretty sure it was first used in an ep where radiation was an issue, it was quite a while ago but i can't remember off the top of my head. maybe it was the maroon 5 one. actually i think it might've been because they had that weird bit where he and mac were standing by it and they zoomed in on the stomach and ended up surrounded by this dead body's stomach - niiiiice.

That explains why I remember Hawkes using it--Sid was in the hospital with radiation poisoning! That was "Page Turner."

 

[Maya316]

Episode 10 airs when? (I thought it was this week, until I read about the Grammy Nomination thing:wtf I'm looking forward to that one way more than I am 6.11, too, because a) the title and summary makes it sound like a belated Halloween episode, and b) Ella's back. I was wondering when they were going to dust off that plotline.

Although I can't see how they're going to catch or convict a hundred-year-old perpetrator, but...heh, I want to be impressed.

Originally Posted by Top41:
I love Train! And their new single is so catchy.

And that's exactly why I'm not complaining :lol: Train trumps any of the musicians they've brought onto this show so far. <3 (Although the Kid Rock concert was not-bad.)

See, I thought they've always shown Stella knowing she's being reckless, but not caring. Or maybe not caring isn't the right way of putting it--she thinks about her actions, but if she gets pushed far enough, she's going to spring into action.

I get that Stella generally knows she's going to get into trouble for her actions, but she doesn't seem to assume she's being unreasonable or reckless (or maybe I just got this from the S5 Diakos storyline...but I got a similar feeling from "Officer Blue" and "Supply and Demand" in Season 1). That might have less to do with a lack of self-awareness and just a conviction in her beliefs, but maybe it's the way she tends to explain her actions sometimes. It's tricky because there are times when she does
know exactly what's setting her off.

The marriage really isn't very realistic at all. But I think Lindsay's whipped and Danny's just scared of being abandoned.

Which...is really pretty pathetic all around, though.:wtf: This is precisely how DL rapidly becomes the least interesting part of Lindsay (iow, why I'd rather not see her every scene remind me of it); they're taking a huge gamble expecting viewers to ignore everything from the past two seasons that's told us she (or heck, Danny himself) wouldn't have walked by mid-S6 if that became the status quo for their relationship. Probably why they'd benefit from not showcasing Lindsay and Danny together that often, hint hint. If they have to keep them in the Happy Marriage, I mean.

I think he kind of willingly did trust Mac in RSRD--which was an advancement for him. He sort of confides in Flack, too, now and then, at least about his fears. But I think his default is to not trust--and he definitely doesn't trust Lindsay.

Exactly; I've thought the same for a while now. Mac and Flack do have better luck getting through to him, and getting him to talk to them, but they are definitely exceptions to the rule. I wonder if they have any idea what's behind that default not to trust. Flack sometimes seems to have an idea (if it is something to do with Danny's family or Tanglewood, then I'd say Flack definitely has an idea -- he seemed to in RSRD). I doubt Mac does, though.

I could have sworn the first time that virtual autopsy was introduced, it was Hawkes using it alone, but I will concede to your geek hat! Especially since I don't even remember the first episode we saw that in.

LOL, I just realized how bad it is that I think I know that too :alienblush::alienblush: (the first virtual autopsy... either "Hostage" or "Veritas", but used by Sid. I am officially stepping away from the NY dvds and re-runs now, for two weeks at least :lol

I do the opposite--Anna was given heaps to work with. A dark secret, an office flirtation, a need to prove herself, a love of her work--and yet she couldn't maintain any kind of consistency from week to week. I feel like the writers made a character out of Lindsay in spite of Anna's weaknesses, albeit not a great one.

But a dark secret they never seemed to incorporate into the character's behaviour until Anna did so herself. Haylen has a dark secret too. We're not seeing any indication of that in her lines or her behaviour. I think Carter does a great job playing Haylen, but except for her overconfidence (maybe a side effect of something that happened to her in the past that might've left her with an urge to prove herself) I'm not seeing anything that could be bothering this girl. Which might be a problem, if the secret is something that's meant to have lasting traumatic impact on her.

I'm not sure either the need to prove herself or a love of her job made Lindsay unique from the other thirty or so characters in the franchise. Except for Mac, Horatio, and Grissom, is there a single character in the franchise who hasn't felt the need to prove themselves? And not excluding even those three, a character who doesn't love their work? The only one who didn't really fall into either category was Speedle, and it was pretty much that very thing that made him stand out from the others. In Lindsay it was one-note; a quality that any good CSI is supposed to have. Especially since this is exactly what Haylen's all about now. It's not something that fleshes/fleshed out either of them.

I do agree, though, about the office flirtation. It's basically the only thing the writers originally wrote into Lindsay's character that made her stand out.

What about her concern for Flack with regards to his sister, her discretion in not pushing him to talk because she knew that wasn't a Flack thing to do, her brief moment of concern when people found out they were dating--that it would be more detrimental to her than him. A flash of insecurity that felt very real to me. Her willingness to bend the rules to help Stella? IMO, there was a lot to like there. Of course she wasn't as developed as the regs, but I think there was more to her than just toughness.

Well, it's not that we never saw Angell be decent or likeable. It was just always very generic when she was, it never felt like something unique to Angell: like something she did because she was her. Hoping this makes sense -- it was like she was the "what they need me to be, when they need me to be it" character. I found her more tolerable in those moments, but I liked the action itself more than I liked her for doing it. It was decent of Angell to drive Flack to Sam's AA meeting, but since it became obvious in the next 0.5 seconds that she had a thing for him, I saw it as one-note LI stuff. Even Lindsay did something similar back in RSRD. I actually think it might have given her a bit more depth and originality in that scene had she not known not to push Flack into talking. Because I think her most interesting (maybe not likable, but definitely interesting) moment in three years was that concern for her reputation in "Rush to Judgment", not so much for the insecurity -- though that was good too -- but for complaining to Flack about it at not-the-right-time.

If that willingness to bend the rules had been something more organic to Angell, rather than something she did because Stella needed her to do it, I would've found it far more interesting. And frustratingly, that was literally the most depth she got during that storyline (I was hoping for something original when she went undercover, but she essentially went undercover...as herself. There was no difference between Angell and the female she was playing, except for maybe the name [or lack thereof] she gave Kolovos). Yeah, the writers aren't great with fleshing out non-regular female characters (Peyton wasn't exactly a fount of originality herself, and except for the ego neither is Haylen), but it felt like they'd put very little work into Angell, whereas Adam, Sid, and heck even Detective Sinclair (although less so) had moments of originality to them when they were regulars.

I think the aloofness was something they had to write around because Anna lacks warmth. If it was really a quality Lindsay has, why hasn't it been consistent? She wasn't really aloof until season three's storyline called for her to be.

Wasn't she written as aloof in "All Access" and "Stealing Home"? (Both of which being the first times she was ever give non-generic, non-Danny-related emotions to work with?) I saw the aloofness from the beginning, in the way she held herself back from the others even as she was being all perky and demonstration-giving. I've heard tons of people here mention that very same thing, whether with positive or negative connotations. I thought it was the whole reason she's seen as brittle. They didn't actually start writing it in until late season 2. And I have to wonder why every real storyline or mini-story they've ever written specifically for Lindsay (especially in the early seasons, and heck even at the beginning of S5 and S6) calls for her to act aloof at least once -- if it's not an element they've been running with like they've got nothing else, ever since Anna Belknap added it to her character. Clearly I don't know Anna, but she's never struck me as lacking warmth in either her interviews or the behind-the-scenes segments I've seen. She seems a great deal warmer than I've ever seen Lindsay be.

I think they've kind of stuck her in a corner so to speak, which I might be more irritated by were she a better character, and Anna a better actress. As it is, I kind of see it as damage control. That being said, I still think Anna does pretty decently with those seething anger scenes, or she did in "Stealing Home" and with hints of it in "Manhattanhenge." Something cool like seeing Lindsay have to fight to protect her husband and daughter could give her something to work with. If she did something that crossed the line, that could give her something to relate to Flack on--and maybe even drive a wedge between her and Danny. I'm not sure they'd go that route, though it would be an interesting one.

I would be willing to pay for them to go that route! (The one with her crossing the line, even driving the wedge between her and Danny -- although I'd rather they keep it out of DL altogether.) I do agree that they've written Lindsay into a corner, but see -- while I do figure this might make me sound a little harsh on these writers -- I still see that as having more to do with laziness or a very single minded perspective on what they want from Lindsay, than with them having "no choice". Just 'cause I don't buy into the notion of characters having been exhausted and/or having no more room to grow or place to develop to. If they've been written correctly, characters are like real, identifiable people (who are still developing right up until they die). So long as the story's going, there's room for development. So sticking Lindsay into a corner would be more (bad) writer's choice, than necessity.

ETA *hope I'm not stretching the word-count here*

Originally Posted by Top41:

Originally posted by *lisasimpson*:
i'm pretty sure it was first used in an ep where radiation was an issue, it was quite a while ago but i can't remember off the top of my head. maybe it was the maroon 5 one. actually i think it might've been because they had that weird bit where he and mac were standing by it and they zoomed in on the stomach and ended up surrounded by this dead body's stomach - niiiiice.

That explains why I remember Hawkes using it--Sid was in the hospital with radiation poisoning! That was "Page Turner."

Oh yeah! That was the first time Hawkes used the virtual autopsy...I think (they used the virtual one in that episode, right? 'Cause the body itself was too dangerous?)

Originally posted by *lisasimpson*:
i actually quite liked kendall, and i don't dislike haylen either, i guess it's just a question of waiting and seeing with her, as they've not had much of her yet. i always found it kind of sad that kendall was there and then just disappeared really quickly, because i liked her and adam's little rivalry-stroke-flirting thing.

Same - I agree it's not something they need to replicate in Adam vs. Haylen unless they find a way to make it specific to them, but the way he and Kendall played off of each other was cute. I wouldn't be completely disappointed if they had Adam and Haylen in more of a mentor-student relationship (kind of like how A.J and Sarah were in that ET interview before the season started). I don't know if they've blown that possibility with the whole rivalry, and Haylen thinking she's awesome, but it'd be cute and more original

 

[Faylinn]

There has to be something more interesting to ask about. *sigh*

I need scoop on CSI: NY's Danny and Lindsay! — Meg

MegaBuzz: Even though conventional TV wisdom suggests otherwise, executive producer Pam Veasey promises that this couple will remain rock-solid. "We're not going to go the typical [route]," Veasey says. "They went through a lot to get together, and they will now go through things together. Something will happen — something has to happen in their lives. But it won't be anything tragic."

 

[talkingtocactus]

Episode 10 airs when? (I thought it was this week, until I read about the Grammy Nomination thing:wtf I'm looking forward to that one way more than I am 6.11, too, because a) the title and summary makes it sound like a belated Halloween episode, and b) Ella's back. I was wondering when they were going to dust off that plotline.

ok, i seem to have missed something there - can you backtrack?!:lol:

LOL, I just realized how bad it is that I think I know that too :alienblush::alienblush: (the first virtual autopsy... either "Hostage" or "Veritas", but used by Sid. I am officially stepping away from the NY dvds and re-runs now, for two weeks at least :lol

yeah, you're right! i forgot about that one but it's because they're not allowed to take the body out of jersey's jurisdiction isn't it?

But a dark secret they never seemed to incorporate into the character's behaviour until Anna did so herself. Haylen has a dark secret too. We're not seeing any indication of that in her lines or her behaviour.

unless it's not a bad dark secret, if that makes sense - ie i mean one that's beneficial to her, like maybe mac has a reed all of his own or something! ok, so i realise just how unlikely that is:lol::lol:, but i just mean it might not be a secret that's traumatic for her, it may be dark in terms of plot/character interactions, but still beneficial to her...

Originally posted by *lisasimpson*:
i actually quite liked kendall, and i don't dislike haylen either, i guess it's just a question of waiting and seeing with her, as they've not had much of her yet. i always found it kind of sad that kendall was there and then just disappeared really quickly, because i liked her and adam's little rivalry-stroke-flirting thing.

Same - I agree it's not something they need to replicate in Adam vs. Haylen unless they find a way to make it specific to them, but the way he and Kendall played off of each other was cute. I wouldn't be completely disappointed if they had Adam and Haylen in more of a mentor-student relationship (kind of like how A.J and Sarah were in that ET interview before the season started). I don't know if they've blown that possibility with the whole rivalry, and Haylen thinking she's awesome, but it'd be cute and more original

exactly, i don't mind haylen at all (i was about to call her hendall which is a worrying sign of impending genericism!), but it'd be a shame if they just rehashed the same old story. come on writers, do something different!

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

There has to be something more interesting to ask about. *sigh*

I need scoop on CSI: NY's Danny and Lindsay! — Meg

MegaBuzz: Even though conventional TV wisdom suggests otherwise, executive producer Pam Veasey promises that this couple will remain rock-solid. "We're not going to go the typical [route]," Veasey says. "They went through a lot to get together, and they will now go through things together. Something will happen — something has to happen in their lives. But it won't be anything tragic."

To paraphrase . . . ZZZZZZZZZZZ . . . :shifty: