CSI: NY Season 4 Spoilers! Discussion in the Big Apple

[Top41]

thank you. as i will be the first to say that it will be extremely stupid of Lindsay to just take him back (immediately) after what he has done, i would like also to see from Dannys fans the same courtesy and admittance that what he is about to do is extremely unstable and hypocritical IMHO.I havnt seen anyone (but you) aknowledge how also stupid is of Danny what seems is going to happen.

I think most people who like Danny will readily admit he's a fuck-up. It's what makes him so interesting, so endearing and maddening in the same breath. I think Danny sleeping with Rikki and (potentially) moving forward with Lindsay are the same thing: Danny basing his actions off of other people's desires. I think Danny's actions will be coming from the same place: guilt. He slept with Rikki because she wanted it, and if he moves forward with Lindsay, it will be because she's in love with him. I wouldn't call it hypocritical--I think his intentions are good--but stupid and misguided? Yeah.

As for Lindsay, I do cut her some slack because she's in love. It's one thing to take a strong stance in front of the boss when you've messed up, but if Danny comes back and offers to try again or something...well, that's easier in theory to refuse than in actuality. It's still not the brightest move, especially since she's already come to the conclusion that he doesn't feel the same, but it's understandable.

I just don't see a happy ending in all of this, and I'm a little perplexed by the push to just smooth things over and move forward. We haven't heard Danny's side yet, so I'm curious as to what he'll say, but I don't see how Danny and Lindsay can realistically move forward when it's so obvious that Danny isn't in love with her.

 

[dutch_treat]

PerfectAnomaly said:
It sometimes feels like a "battle" to me, especially when explaining why I feel the way I do is reduced to engaging in a "battle" and saying I understand from where a character's behavior stems even if I don't condone the behavior is reduced to nothing more than giving "entitlement" to a character's behavior. It also feels like a "battle" when it's constantly pointed out how people empathizing/sympathizing more with Danny based on interpreting canon is unfair/hypocritical/a double standard/mean/etc. but condemning Danny (and Rikki) and empathizing/sympathizing with Lindsay based on non-canon assumption is OK.

Discussion will always be a "battle" of words and opinions, and I was merely explaining how I feel about what has happened and everyone's behavior and was not trying to reduce your explanations. I disagree with a lot of what people have said about Danny, Rikki and Lindsay and am not condemning and assuming anything yet (although speculation is always fun) until we've seen how it all plays out; because of the reasons Top already mentioned ^ I just fear that it probably will make at least one and possibly even more characters look really bad.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

PerfectAnomaly said:
It sometimes feels like a "battle" to me, especially when explaining why I feel the way I do is reduced to engaging in a "battle" and saying I understand from where a character's behavior stems even if I don't condone the behavior is reduced to nothing more than giving "entitlement" to a character's behavior. It also feels like a "battle" when it's constantly pointed out how people empathizing/sympathizing more with Danny based on interpreting canon is unfair/hypocritical/a double standard/mean/etc. but condemning Danny (and Rikki) and empathizing/sympathizing with Lindsay based on non-canon assumption is OK.

Discussion will always be a "battle" of words and opinions, and I was merely explaining how I feel about what has happened and everyone's behavior and was not trying to reduce your explanations. I disagree with a lot of what people have said about Danny, Rikki and Lindsay and am not condemning and assuming anything yet (although speculation is always fun) until we've seen how it all plays out; because of the reasons Top already mentioned ^ I just fear that it probably will make at least one and possibly even more characters look really bad.

Fair enough. I'm feeling defensive today for whatever reason, so I'm sorry if I jumped to conclusions.

I was thinking about the word "stupid." I was an English and Communication double major in college so I think about words and their meanings vs. their connotations sometimes. I can feel the s. And this is going to be tl;dr for many. What can I say? Just don't make any sudden moves and humor me.

I don't know if I've called how Lindsay, Danny and/or Rikki have acted so far as "stupid" and I'm not going to go look through all my ramblings to find out. But thinking about it now, none of them have been "stupid." I think it was "stupid" on both Danny and Lindsay's parts for not being clear about their relationship status; but Danny and Rikki turning to each other and Lindsay falling in love/convincing herself she's in love with Danny and being hurt that he's pushing her away/doesn't feel the same way she does isn't "stupid" in my book. Misguided, unhealthy, and a lot of other things but not "stupid."

To me "stupid" implies there is a thought out plan, seperate from the emotions involved, that just doesn't make sense or ends up not being as thought out as it should have been. Danny and Rikki are acting on pure, raw emotion, and I even concede that Lindsay is acting more out of emotion than anything else at this point. Doing things out of emotion, even though they often don't make sense and aren't thought out, to me isn't the same as being "stupid." It's a small distinction to make, but to me it's an important one.

If TPTB gloss over everything that's happened and all of a sudden we have DL 2.0 who are not only together but back to their S2 cute banter like nothing ever happened it will definitely make both Danny and Lindsay look insanely "stupid."

 

[dutch_treat]

^ I don't mind the English lecture since I love learning about different languages; you even made me look up the meaning of 'stupid' , and you're right (English not being my first language created a major case of a perfect Babel) Danny, Rikki and even Lindsay are more misguided than stupid.

I just hope that TPTB realize in time that they have to be very careful how to procede with what they've started before they end up being the ones we can really entitle as 'stupid'.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

^ I don't mind the English lecture since I love learning about different languages; you even made me look up the meaning of 'stupid' , and you're right (English not being my first language created a major case of a perfect Babel) Danny, Rikki and even Lindsay are more misguided than stupid.

"English lecture" is putting it very loosely - I graduated college with a C average so I'd take anything I say about the language with a huge grain of salt. But I really do think there is a connotative meaning with the word "stupid" that doesn't fit any of the character's actions in this particular situation, regardless of if the denotive meaning of the word fits.

 

[miss_blue]

Dims said:
i would like also to see from Dannys fans the same courtesy and admittance that what he is about to do is extremely unstable and hypocritical IMHO.I havnt seen anyone (but you) acknowledge how also stupid is of Danny what seems is going to happen.

To answer your question (a bit late, but it's better late than never) Danny is the stupidest of all characters. He is the one who was chewed up by Mac in numerous occasions, he had family issues, issues at work, issues in his personal life and he is basically screwed up. Danny is not an average person, and as Carmine himself said, maybe at the end of the season 5 we will see Danny in an insane asylum, because he's been through a lot. Danny is the most developed character IMO. He had more storylines than Mac or Stella. I love Danny for his screwed-up-ness. He seems more real than the others, because he is not an emotionless brick wall and that is the most endearing trait he has.

LaGuera said:
As someone who's been howling for Flack development for four seasons, I am thrilled to see this and hope it leads to some meaty material for both Eddie and Flack. It's about time we see a glimpse of the person he is when he's just Don and not Det. Flack, Big Damn Hero. I hope that Melanie isn't forgotten after the episode in which she appears, and cast into the plot chasm that swallows undesirable siblings, like poor Louie Messer, who had his brains scrambled for twenty minutes of angst and was never seen again.

Yes, finally Flack gets some love. I foresee sarcasm and lots of witty comments coming our way. Sure, there is still a lot of time till we get to see this long awaited development, but something tells me that it'll definitely be worth waiting.

Oh, yes. I hope Melanie doesn't become Melanie the Amazing Disappearing Sister. That being said, neither do I want her to become a prominent focal point. An appearance now and then, a mention. But please God, don't subject us to X seasons of Flack the Good Brother running interference for his irresponsible, Black Sheep Sister.

And regarding to that little piece of dialog you've made earlier, maybe Melanie and Louie will hook up to a magic show. Main attraction: disappearance Although I am not sure that they will do the same to Melanie. I think that they will give a role that doesn't require a come back, or keep people wondering and speculating for almost 2 years.

I don't know why I'm asking these questions because I'd bet my grocery money that Flack having siblings wasn't included in the original conception of the character. The writers probably brainstormed the idea over a hookah bong in talks for S4, and I'd wager Melanie was a product of a margarita chug during the strike. The writers have too long a history of inventing back stories only to change them on a whim to fit the plot of the moment.

:lol: at "hookah bong" :lol: It's great that we already have S5 spoilers, that will keep our keyboards busy during the summer

PerfectAnomaly said:
"English lecture" is putting it very loosely - I graduated college with a C average so I'd take anything I say about the language with a huge grain of salt. But I really do think there is a connotative meaning with the word "stupid" that doesn't fit any of the character's actions in this particular situation, regardless of if the denotive meaning of the word fits.

I will take your word for it, I am too lazy to do investigation on the vocabulary. IMO grades don't always reflect the truth. I always think that I know more than my grades reflect at present. Yes, no one did anything stupid. It's weird situation and weird situations always end up with people being hurt. Even if I don't sympathize with Lindsay, she suffers. I think it's a bit exaggerated, especially her reasons. I don't really get why she is mad at him because after Ruben died he chose to grief on his own. I think it's his choice, and given the fact that he holds himself responsible, he needed a little space.

ETA: Dims, you mentioned double standards, why was it OK for Lindsay not to share what she was going through with Danny, although he repeatedly asked her, and it's not OK for Danny to grief alone? (Keeping in mind that Lindsay doesn't know about Rikki)

 

[Top41]

ETA: Dims, you mentioned double standards, why was it OK for Lindsay not to share what she was going through with Danny, although he repeatedly asked her, and it's not OK for Danny to grief alone? (Keeping in mind that Lindsay doesn't know about Rikki)

I imagine the argument for that is that when Lindsay was going through her emotional turmoil, she and Danny were not together and hadn't slept together, but Danny's issues with Ruben's death are coming after they've slept together and presumably had gotten closer. I think the important thing to remember here is that every individual deals with grief in his or her own way, and neither of them should be judged for how they each dealt with it. Even if Danny and Lindsay were in fact in a relationship, if he chose not to turn to her, that's within his rights. We also never saw her reach out to him, and the only people Danny spoke to about it--Mac, Angell, Flack--were people who directly reached out to him.

To answer your question (a bit late, but it's better late than never) Danny is the stupidest of all characters. He is the one who was chewed up by Mac in numerous occasions, he had family issues, issues at work, issues in his personal life and he is basically screwed up. Danny is not an average person, and as Carmine himself said, maybe at the end of the season 5 we will see Danny in an insane asylum, because he's been through a lot. Danny is the most developed character IMO. He had more storylines than Mac or Stella. I love Danny for his screwed-up-ness. He seems more real than the others, because he is not an emotionless brick wall and that is the most endearing trait he has.

Not much to add here other than that I agree completely with everything here and feel the same about the character. He's my favorite because he's the most complex and the most flawed.

 

[WhosLaughingNow]

To answer your question (a bit late, but it's better late than never) Danny is the stupidest of all characters.

I'm not sure if I would call Danny the "stupidest" per se :lol:. Because in all honesty I don't think he's stupid. I think he lacks common sense and has very poor judgment sometimes.

 

[miss_blue]

I was talking about that poor judgment, he is not stupid in the true meaning of the word, but thanks to the connotations of the word, I took the liberty to call him that. I think he's a little bit naive too, and he sometimes has the innocence of a 3 year old

 

[Top41]

I was talking about that poor judgment, he is not stupid in the true meaning of the word, but thanks to the connotations of the word, I took the liberty to call him that. I think he's a little bit naive too, and he sometimes has the innocence of a 3 year old

Agreed completely. There's something very sweet and a little misguided about Danny.

 

[Gaelen]

Agreed completely. There's something very sweet and a little misguided about Danny.

If they cut back a wee bit, he'd be somewhat adorable. Right now he's just annoying to me. Oh well.

So we're getting Flack's sister now? Well that's interesting. Let's hope the episodes turn out half as interesting as our speculation :lol:

 

[miss_blue]

Getting back to those psych exams, I starting to wondering how Danny passed his. This isn't the first time we've seen him get emotional over a case, or follow his heart rather than the evidence. Is this guy really cut out to be a CSI?

I was getting melancholic these days and I went back to Season 1. And yes, whenever I see an episode I go to the review. And that was said after Dove Commission. That statement is 3 years old, and it's still 100% true

Getting back to the spoiler discussions, I can't wait for Admissions to air. I have just read the spoiler report for the episode (shame on me, I know) and I am really curios to see Gerrard, giving the fact that his daughter is somehow in the middle. I think the guy is not going to be pleased, given the fact that his relationship with Mac's team isn't all good and nice. I am expecting some tension between Gerrard and the team, Raising Shane style.

 

[Top41]

Agreed completely. There's something very sweet and a little misguided about Danny.

If they cut back a wee bit, he'd be somewhat adorable. Right now he's just annoying to me. Oh well.

I think Danny gets more emotionally involved than any of the others do, on a deeper level. He doesn't only care if the victims remind him of himself or make him think of something from his own experience--he just cares, no matter what the case. Danny's compassion is what makes him mess up a lot of times, but I'd take that over the kind of self-involvement we've seen from Lindsay or the occasional hubris we see from Mac.

Getting back to those psych exams, I starting to wondering how Danny passed his. This isn't the first time we've seen him get emotional over a case, or follow his heart rather than the evidence. Is this guy really cut out to be a CSI?

I was getting melancholic these days and I went back to Season 1. And yes, whenever I see an episode I go to the review. And that was said after Dove Commission. That statement is 3 years old, and it's still 100% true

Ah, "The Dove Commission"--I really love that episode. That's the one time I didn't sympathize with Danny at all--he should have been reprimanded for the way he spoke to the son of the victim. Whatever his personal experience, there was no excuse for his behavior. But, Danny did apologize at the end of the episode which wasn't easy to do either. Danny has a good heart--he's always trying to do the right thing.

Getting back to the spoiler discussions, I can't wait for Admissions to air. I have just read the spoiler report for the episode (shame on me, I know) and I am really curios to see Gerrard, giving the fact that his daughter is somehow in the middle. I think the guy is not going to be pleased, given the fact that his relationship with Mac's team isn't all good and nice. I am expecting some tension between Gerrard and the team, Raising Shane style.

I'm excited to see Gerrard again. I loved him the times we saw him--he's arrogant, but I don't think he's a bad person. I think he's an old school cop, kind of like I'd imagine Flack's father to be. It will be interesting to see if he clashes with the team in this episode.

 

[Kimmychu]

Heh. Having read the latest spoilers, and should my speculations for the season come to pass, the season three lapdog Danny is probably returning and sticking around for a while. If that happens, all I'll say to TPTB is to push him completely into the background as well as Lindsay because I have absolutely zero interest in seeing Danny, a character who was once exciting and outstanding and interesting, be two-dimensional, cliched and ya know, B-O-R-I-N-G. BORING. If TPTB insists on making every Danny drama tied to Lindsay from now on (which makes pretty much any big story arc for him predictable and so limiting), please, minimal screen time for both of them because it's a real turn off to see Danny looking like he wants to kill himself and rather be anywhere else and Lindsay just capable of showing two expressions that barely conveys emotion.

The Flack spoilers are a pleasant surprise though! So nice to finally see new development for Flack! It's about damn time Flack got more screen time and background exposure. I hope season five will be Flack's season. So now we know Flack has brothers and a sister. Considering how the show's been going on these days, we'll probably see Flack's evil twin brother who wants to take over the world with his super nuclear satellite ray gun or something. And I dunno, maybe Flack really is James Bond and he has some secret lair where he has all kinds of cool gadgets and travels the world as a secret agent. Maybe that's why he's never around.

Oh yeah, and TPTB? You do remember that black guy who's on the cast, right? Ya know, that ME turned CSI whom you shafted for three seasons straight for a country girl CSI who's terribly unprofessional and lacking compared to him? Yeah. It's about damn friggin' time Hawkes got development too! He gets shafted again this season, I'll personally write a letter to Mr. Harper telling him to get his own show because he deserves so much better.

 

[Ghawazee]

Kimmy, AMEN, amen,amen!

ITA with you. Lindsay is like a virus. She can't live outside Danny's shadow. Usually i don't waste my time with a character like this. But the overdosis of screentime for her in Season 3 was too much to stand. In special when other actors lost space and screentime.:scream:

If you ask me, I'd love to have Det. Macca for Danny. They seemed to be comfortable with each other back in S1.:thumbsup:
Or even an exit for the closet to Flack and Danny would be great

But pleaseeeeeeeeeeeee, don't exterminate Danny.
Give little minutes to Anna
And give us SMacked instead of wasting time with so many women around Mac:scream:


Debbie