"CSI Down" Discussion **SPOILERS**

[GregNickRyanFan]

And Greg, I thought his reactions were a little bit not him. He was always calm and relaxed. I don't remember him like that when Warrick died or when Nick went missing.

Not lately he hasn't been. There have been at least two other cases where he's been angry in the last few years. With the James' boys' mom and when he felt as though he was still being treated like the labrat instead of a CSI 3.

When Warrick died, Nick went missing and Sara was taken, tptb chose not to show Greg much (he was hardly in the Warrick episode) because they wanted to focus on other characters and THEIR reactions. For Warrick it was Cath, Grissom and Nick's reactions that were the main focus. Greg was barely there. For Sara, it was mostly about Grissom's reaction with a little of Nick... again, Greg was hardly on screen. For Nick, it was about Warrick's, Catherine's and Grissom's reactions. Greg was there, but not much. The point is, tptb are just now starting to give Greg more scenes.

At some point even with someone who is normally calm, there's only so much one can take before they break or burst with anger. Think about all that Greg has had to deal with. Blown up in the lab, beaten nearly to death, almost lost two friends, lost another friend, his best friend left and then later returned, he's felt like he was being treated like a labrat still until recently, the woman he thought was interested in him turned out to be a psycho. Add all of that up with the situation with Morgan and that can really equal a burst of anger.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

My one fault with this episode (aside from the seriously fake helicopter!) was Greg's anger. The guilt he felt, and his "why the hell not?" to DB I get but the anger at the suspect? I get that he has a crush on Morgan (something I am soooooooo not happy about) but to see that anger from the normally mellow Greg just didn't sit right with me. He didn't even get that worked up when Nick (who he's worked with for years and been pretty friendly with) was buried alive, or when Sara (probably Greg's best friend in the lab) was missing. Don't get me wrong, Greg is my favourite character and its nice to see him getting some proper scenes to play with but....come on!! A little continuity would be nice.

His anger was building the entire episode. He was angry with himself for not going on the helicopter to begin with. He would rather he be in that situation than Morgan. He was more angry with himself and the evil girl was just a suitable person to take it out on. People grow and situations change them. It isn't so hard to believe that after ALL that Greg has been through, all the times his friends have been hurt or killed on the job, he's finally said ENOUGH and acted out in anger. Also, younger Greg was normally mellow. Older Greg has been much more serious and has been getting angrier more often. Remember his blowup at the James mother? Remember his burst of anger in "A Family Affair"? (I believe that was the title of the episode). I don't think there is a continuity issue at all.

Plus, he had every right to be angry at that girl. She sent a hit squad after four people, three of them innocent, just because she hated her father and wanted him dead. She deserved every bit of that anger. They couldn't have Ecklie screaming at her because it wouldn't look right to have someone Ecklie's age screaming at a female that young... so they had to use the youngest male on the team, thus one closer to the girl's age. Heck, I'm not normally an angry and all "grrr" person, but I would have yelled at that girl like Greg did too. Sure he was upset about Morgan being in danger, but I think a large part of the anger was at what the girl suspect did. That would make the most pacifist of pacifists angry.

The issue with him not showing anger at Nick and Sara's situations is with the writers/ptb (he was hardly even in those epsiodes, especially the ones with Sara's ordeal). They chose not to allow him to show a reaction because they were too focused on the reactions of others (Grissom for Sara; Grissom, Cath and Warrick for Nick's situation, plus throwing in Nick's parents). They are just now this season starting to give him more meaty stuff to work with. I sure as heck ain't gonna look a gift horse in the mouth lol.

I agree with all this. A lot of people have been saying that his anger here was odd considering he didn't react with anger in "Grave Danger" or "Dead Doll". You said it nicely how Greg has changed over the years and that he was barely featured in those episodes. Also, this one was different in that Greg got to confront someone who was actively putting a colleague in danger. It was a different situation than previously seen.

 

[sharp52092]

And Greg, I thought his reactions were a little bit not him. He was always calm and relaxed. I don't remember him like that when Warrick died or when Nick went missing.

Not lately he hasn't been. There have been at least two other cases where he's been angry in the last few years. With the James' boys' mom and when he felt as though he was still being treated like the labrat instead of a CSI 3.

When Warrick died, Nick went missing and Sara was taken, tptb chose not to show Greg much (he was hardly in the Warrick episode) because they wanted to focus on other characters and THEIR reactions. For Warrick it was Cath, Grissom and Nick's reactions that were the main focus. Greg was barely there. For Sara, it was mostly about Grissom's reaction with a little of Nick... again, Greg was hardly on screen. For Nick, it was about Warrick's, Catherine's and Grissom's reactions. Greg was there, but not much. The point is, tptb are just now starting to give Greg more scenes.

At some point even with someone who is normally calm, there's only so much one can take before they break or burst with anger. Think about all that Greg has had to deal with. Blown up in the lab, beaten nearly to death, almost lost two friends, lost another friend, his best friend left and then later returned, he's felt like he was being treated like a labrat still until recently, the woman he thought was interested in him turned out to be a psycho. Add all of that up with the situation with Morgan and that can really equal a burst of anger.

Well said MotherConfessor/GNRFan :thumbsup:

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

I get that he was angry but Greg's not a hothead, nor is he aggresively confrontational...he's always been a mellow, easy going and somewhat softhearted character and our personalities, regardless of what we experience, remain relatively stable over time.

Trust me, our hold on our emotions do not always remain stable and I speak from experience when I say that. There is only so much one person can take before they lose their cool and go off on someone/something no matter how normally mellow they are. This was just Greg's moment. Greg has bottled up his anger instead of letting it out in the past. He finally let some out with Mrs. James and then with Cath/Nick in "A Family Affair" and now with this suspect in this last episode.

It's been my experience that people who hold in their anger too long eventually have an explosion of anger in one moment, even if it doesn't necessarily seem like a proper moment (like in Family Affair). And yes, that does sometimes include becoming confrontational (when you're normally not a confrontational person at all), because I did at least one time (and this is the third time for Greg as far as I can remember). I'd been holding in my anger throughout the years over a certain situation. Eventually one day, there were other factors, but I finally let out all of that steam in a confrontation with one of the people I'd had this building anger over. It is possible and does happen. Having the experience myself, I found Greg's anger pretty realistic.

Also, our general personalities do not necessarily change just because we had a moment where we released some or all of the anger we've been holding in because we haven't wanted to seem confrontational. It just means we're imperfect and human and have a breaking point. Everyone does have a breaking point no matter how much of a pacifistic personality they have.

Also, it could be that part of the reason Greg blew up at the girl was because he thought perhaps he would scare her (by yelling at her, slamming the table and kicking the chair - a lot of cops slam the table to startle a suspect) into telling them what they needed to know to find Morgan and the others. That obviously didn't work though LOL.

Yes, Greg has grown up and become more serious, but serious doesn't automatically equal confrontational.

As I said, it had to be Greg. They had to have someone blow up at that girl. It wouldn't be right to have Ecklie do it because it would look too much like "mean older man yelling at young girl" lol, so they used the only available team member who was closer to the girl's age. The only other one would be Morgan herself and she wasn't available, so Greg was the logical choice. Personally, I would have been annoyed had someone not yelled at the girl lol.

I feel like the show played up Greg's anger only because they're building up to a romance between Greg and Morgan and that irritates me because I don't want Greg and Morgan to become involved

I'm not worrying about them in a romance just yet. They may end up being more like Morgan and Garcia on Criminal Minds. They're friends who love each other, but not romantically. They just do this playful, friendly flirty thing with each other, but never seem to be interested in being romantic with each other. Maybe this is what they plan to do on CSI with Morgan and Greg. I think its a little too soon to tell right now.

Also, if Greg and Morgan became involved, wouldn't one of them have to switch shofts? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that what happened to Sara and Grissom? I like Morgan and want her to stay).

That was only because Grissom was Sara's supervisor and it wouldn't be right for her to report to him when they were involved. Greg and Morgan neither one are supervisors, so I don't think that rule would apply to them.

Also, this one was different in that Greg got to confront someone who was actively putting a colleague in danger. It was a different situation than previously seen.

That's a good point. In Sara and Nick's situations, Greg didn't get to talk to those putting his friends/colleagues in danger, so he didn't have a chance to confront them. In Warrick's case, he was already dead and confronting the killer would not accomplish anything. With this girl, confronting her allowed for the possibility that she would tell them what they needed to know in order to find Morgan and prevent her from being hurt/killed.

 

[Smokey]

Loving DB. Everything about him this season is flawless and this episode was no exception. I love his calm, warm way with his staff. Putting his arm lightly around Greg's shoulder when he said he should have been the CSI on the chopper, and sensing that Morgan was about to break and needed to get away fast at the end. I think I might be liking DB even more than some of the long term cast members, he's breathing life back into the show.

Same here. Watching last night I even thought if all of the other cast members were replaced I would still watch the show for DB. Ted has really been a great addition to this show!

Ecklie was a big surprise in this episode. I know he's mellowed alot in the last seasons but we really saw a soft, very human side to him in this episode and I really liked that vulnerability.

I like how he's changed over the years. And his hugging of Morgan despite her resistance to it was great. I also liked the despair he showed the second it was clear that the daughter was playing them. Very good acting on Mark's part.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Oh, Marc was awesome in the scene where Ecklie choked up saying "it just can't end like this". Pulled on my heart strings big time.

And I adore DB. He's quirky and fun and has good interaction with everyone on the team. He's just plain awesome! I can't help but wonder how different things would be if he had come in after Grissom left.

 

[hiphugger17]

Also, if Greg and Morgan became involved, wouldn't one of them have to switch shofts? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that what happened to Sara and Grissom? I like Morgan and want her to stay).

MotherConfessor
That was only because Grissom was Sara's supervisor and it wouldn't be right for her to report to him when they were involved. Greg and Morgan neither one are supervisors, so I don't think that rule would apply to them.

But didn't Hodges ask Catherine about what he or Wendy would have to do about their shifts if they became involved? Didn't she say one of them had to switch? I thought she did, but I don't remember too well.

 

[sharp52092]

Yep your right hiphugger, members of the same team aren't supposed to be dating, one has to switch though Ecklie said in A La Cart if Grissom and Sara had told him, he would have let them stay on the same shift and just have Catherine do Sara's evaluations

So if Greg and Morgan ever become a couple they could get away with it since Ecklie is the boss and her father...then again they might not, depends on how Ecklie feels about Greg and such

 

[Dizzney]

I get that he was angry but Greg's not a hothead, nor is he aggresively confrontational...he's always been a mellow, easy going and somewhat softhearted character and our personalities, regardless of what we experience, remain relatively stable over time.

Trust me, our hold on our emotions do not always remain stable and I speak from experience when I say that. There is only so much one person can take before they lose their cool and go off on someone/something no matter how normally mellow they are. This was just Greg's moment. Greg has bottled up his anger instead of letting it out in the past. He finally let some out with Mrs. James and then with Cath/Nick in "A Family Affair" and now with this suspect in this last episode.

It's been my experience that people who hold in their anger too long eventually have an explosion of anger in one moment, even if it doesn't necessarily seem like a proper moment (like in Family Affair). And yes, that does sometimes include becoming confrontational (when you're normally not a confrontational person at all), because I did at least one time (and this is the third time for Greg as far as I can remember). I'd been holding in my anger throughout the years over a certain situation. Eventually one day, there were other factors, but I finally let out all of that steam in a confrontation with one of the people I'd had this building anger over. It is possible and does happen. Having the experience myself, I found Greg's anger pretty realistic.

Also, our general personalities do not necessarily change just because we had a moment where we released some or all of the anger we've been holding in because we haven't wanted to seem confrontational. It just means we're imperfect and human and have a breaking point. Everyone does have a breaking point no matter how much of a pacifistic personality they have.

I totally agree with what you said here. I also am pretty mellow but I've had moments of real anger and throwing things when something became too trying.

Plus in the case of a TV show, we don't see every waking moment of a character's life. Who's to say he has not been confrontational in his life outside of work about something?

And everyone does have a breaking point. I've seen it with my own eyes once with my normally calm brother and I still can't believe to this day it happened.

According to Elisabeth's chat last night, nothing more has happened with the relationship in the episodes they have been filming. So they might be dropping it for now.

 

[Crumbs]

I'm not really sure what I thought of this episode, it was really... strange. Granted, I enjoyed it but there was something off about it, and maybe a bit too un-CSI like for my taste, but there were certainly bits I enjoyed about it a lot!

There were three (main) characters who were highlighted in this episode: Morgan, Ecklie and Greg. Morgan annoyed me a little last week, I thought she seemed a bit too cocky and it seems like they tried too hard to turn her into a tough cookie. Today we got to see more of a softer side and I've grown to like her again. I liked how she tried to compose herself towards the end before finally 'losing' it before the credits, it made her character seem more realistic, and a lot less like Riley, whom I was worried she'd end up being like.

Having so used to seeing Ecklie be the 'baddie in the lab', it was certainly welcoming to see a different side to him and Marc Vann did an excellent job portraying that. I have to say I LOVED Ecklie in this episode and I'm glad the show has finally managed to develop his character more. Moving on, I was a little unsure about Greg's reaction in the trailer but having seen the whole episode I think it was justifiable in a way, and it was also great to seeing a different side to his character. (It's been a great season for both Ecklie and Greg actually!)

I'd also like to give credit to the writers for creating a rather likeable 'baddie'. I was hoping Frank would at least survive the ordeal, but I really like how his character developed over the course of the episode, even if the outcome was slightly cliched.

Whereas I LOVED the character development of the three characters aforementioned, I was disappointed that Sara, Catherine, Nick and Brass felt mostly left out, they might as well have been lab rats for the episode. Sure Brass got to do his cop role, but there was a definite lack of his usual witty character coming out tonight. Heck, even DB was hoisted back a bit in this one!

Another thing I did like was the really fast-pace of the episode which sort of highlighted the sense of urgency throughout. However, at times I found myself getting lost and I was disappointed by the lack of any real investigation, with most revelations being made purely by convenience. I can see they tried to have a case tied in to please the fans who prefer the conventional CSI style, but it seemed out of place and disjointed along with the hijacking storyline. If anything, I felt it moved too quickly.

I think the thing I hated the most of this episode was the CGI. Sorry, but it was quite frankly abysmal and made the show look very amateur.

Overall though, a bit messy in places but what I liked, I REALLY liked, so I think that'll bump my grade up to a B.

I think now it's starting to get into the real swing of the season but I have to say Season 12 in my opinion has had the strongest start to a season in a long time. Usually by now we'd have had some sort of 'clunker' but I think all the stories overall have been good and Tell-Tale Hearts is definitely in my all-time favourite episodes. This is how I'd rank the season so far:

Tell-Tale Hearts
Bittersweet
Maid Man
73 Seconds
CSI Down

All of them, in my opinion are infinitely better than the majority of Seasons 8, 9 and 11 and have really captured the family feel of the team reminiscent of the earlier seasons. I'd like to say that the new direction the show has taken from last season may have given it another two or dare I say, three more seasons.

 

[Kimbo08]

This episode was definitely interesting! I enjoyed having other characters in the forefront other than the usual (D.B. and Nick). It was nice seeing the other talents on the show stretch their wings.

The one thing that kind of annoyed me, however, was the fact that the seperate cases the team was working ended up being connected...again. I mean, don't get me wrong, I enjoy having the entire team work together, but how many times can two unrelated cases be connected? It's happen numerous times on the show and almost feels unrealistic, but maybe I'm wrong.

D.B. is still growing on me. I know it's still early on in the season, but I haven't been this anxious for new episodes since S7. It seems the appraoch the writers are taking opens the characters up a little and kind of takes them out of their comfort zone. This show needs a breath of fresh air. Hopefully it's not too late into the series for the makeover, as it is long overdue.

Regardless, this episode and the season in its entirity has definitely gotten better. Kudos to TPTB for showing a different side of Greg! I liked it. At first it seemed misplaced and awkward, but having watched it a second time, youc an see Greg's anger building and building as the episode went on. Marc was fantastic as well. Overall nice episode!

 

[CgrGrl]

This episode was definitely interesting! I enjoyed having other characters in the forefront other than the usual (D.B. and Nick). It was nice seeing the other talents on the show stretch their wings.

There hasn't been much Nick at all this year, only the first episode. As a matter of fact, I just got an email from a friend who out of the blue asked me how I felt that we are only getting as much Nick as in the early seasons when I would be thrilled to see him a couple of times.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

This episode was definitely interesting! I enjoyed having other characters in the forefront other than the usual (D.B. and Nick). It was nice seeing the other talents on the show stretch their wings.

There hasn't been much Nick at all this year, only the first episode. As a matter of fact, I just got an email from a friend who out of the blue asked me how I felt that we are only getting as much Nick as in the early seasons when I would be thrilled to see him a couple of times.

Well, George did just get married. Perhaps the lessened time for Nick is due to tptb giving him some time with his new wife?

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

This episode was definitely interesting! I enjoyed having other characters in the forefront other than the usual (D.B. and Nick). It was nice seeing the other talents on the show stretch their wings.

There hasn't been much Nick at all this year, only the first episode. As a matter of fact, I just got an email from a friend who out of the blue asked me how I felt that we are only getting as much Nick as in the early seasons when I would be thrilled to see him a couple of times.

Well, George did just get married. Perhaps the lessened time for Nick is due to tptb giving him some time with his new wife?

I doubt that. They've been living together for 6 years.

I just think Nick won't have much screentime this season. I know that will make people around here happy, but he does bring in the ratings.

 

[Dark CSI]

I'm not worrying about them in a romance just yet. They may end up being more like Morgan and Garcia on Criminal Minds. They're friends who love each other, but not romantically. They just do this playful, friendly flirty thing with each other, but never seem to be interested in being romantic with each other. Maybe this is what they plan to do on CSI with Morgan and Greg. I think its a little too soon to tell right now.

Oh, I hope that happens! I LOVE the relationship between Garcia and Morgan!

Same here. Watching last night I even thought if all of the other cast members were replaced I would still watch the show for DB. Ted has really been a great addition to this show!

I think so too! With Langston, I had got to a point that I wasn't really following the show anymore but now with DB, I'd watch it just for him. I know Ted Danson has only signed on for one season but I really hope he stays.

I just think Nick won't have much screentime this season. I know that will make people around here happy, but he does bring in the ratings.

Oh no, I hope they don't do that! Greg is my favourite character and I adore DB, but CSI is an ensemble show and it works really well when all the characters get screen time; Nick is such a good guy, I can't picture anyone being happy if he gets pushed to the background in the same way other charaters were for the last two seasons.