"Coup de Grace" Discussion *SPOILERS*

[happyharper13]

God, was that ever gag inducing.

Langston is an unattractive, fat bore who hogs the screen and kills the demos.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/1...down-sharply-vampire-diaries-hits-highs/30547

It would be nice if we could refrain from attacks on characters' appearances... I'm not crazy about Ray's character so far, though I think that's entirely because of how the writers have crafted his personality. That said, Ray (and LF) is a gorgeous man, significantly more so than Grissom, IMO.

 

[jafox]

God, was that ever gag inducing.

Langston is an unattractive, fat bore who hogs the screen and kills the demos.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/1...down-sharply-vampire-diaries-hits-highs/30547

Isn't that a bit much? It would be nice if we could refrain from attacks on characters' appearances... I'm not crazy about Ray's character so far, though I think that's entirely because of how the writers have crafted his personality. That said, Ray (and LF) is a very attractive man, significantly more so than Grissom, IMO.

You are sooooo right. Isn't beauty always in the eye of the beholder? I think I did read that somewhere. :lol:

After rewatching the epi, I wanted to comment about the breakroom scene. I really think that when Catherine looked at Sara after making the remark about saying things in the heat of battle, or whatever, I think Catherine was making peace with Sara, maybe remembering the Nesting Dolls scene. I think Marg wants the fans to move on. Or maybe I'm projecting. :lol:
This is a DR episode, so I always tend to read more into the scenes than is actually written. lol. His writing seems to give the actors some discretion over how they play the scene. I credit that to his theatre roots. Plus, it leaves a lot to one's own interpretation.
I really liked this episode. It was about race, but it wasn't. It was about hatred and racial profiling, but it wasn't. It had some science and some plot twists. But it was mostly sad; people being victims of happenstance. I do think Greg was instrumental in breaking the case: grape jelly and carrots, grape jelly and french fries, ew. But he was great with the kid.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

God, was that ever gag inducing.

Langston is an unattractive, fat bore who hogs the screen and kills the demos.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/1...down-sharply-vampire-diaries-hits-highs/30547

It would be nice if we could refrain from attacks on characters' appearances...

I agree. Calling him unnattractive and fat is unnecessary.

After rewatching the epi, I wanted to comment about the breakroom scene. I really think that when Catherine looked at Sara after making the remark about saying things in the heat of battle, or whatever, I think Catherine was making peace with Sara, maybe remembering the Nesting Dolls scene.

I agree, but I don't think she was just looking at Sara. I think she was looking at Nick and Greg too and referring to the things that went on between her and Greg in the premiere and her snapping at Nick for defending her in the premiere. :lol: But, I do think it was her way of saying, "the past is the past and lets let it lie there".

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

I've always been told that the squeeky wheel gets the grease. In other words, if you say nothing, nothing happens. You'll wind up like the guy in "Working Stiffs". Was Greg in the right in "Family Affair"? Only if it leads to change.

I really hope I made sense

I don't think anyone, including me, is/was saying Greg was wrong for speaking up, how it went about it was what was wrong.

Do you really think that throwing a tantrum, in front of your co-workers, disrespecting your superior is the way to go about it? I don't think so.

I'm a manager of a Production department and we had someone on my staff like that. He disrespected me many times like that and I'm not the only one. When it came time to terminate someone, because business is slow, who do you think was the first one to go? Not the ones who last hired or less seniority, he was because of his past actions.

If Greg wants to keep his job then he needs to do some growing up and handle things in a more professional manner. He wants respect and show that he has grown and matured since being in the field (which he has), then he needs to show it.

When Nick wasn't happy about not getting solo DB cases, he talked with Grissom about it. Talked about it, and it was only him and Grissom. He didn't say anything while Sara and Catherine were there. He showed he was irritated, but he showed that irritation to Grissom and talked to him, ALONE.

Was Greg wrong for the way he felt, NO, was the way he went about it wrong? YES and that is what we are saying here.

Is Catherine wrong in this too, sure, but she may not think that Greg is ready to handle high profile cases yet (just like Grissom didn't think Nick could handle a solo DB case), or she plays the politics (unlike Grissom). Or it simply could be that she trusted Greg to handle the case more than anyone else or she is simply playing everyone's strong card with the cases. Langston does bring things to the table that Greg would not be able too, or Catherine, or Nick, or Sara could. (Even if it is dumbing down the characters and is freaking annoying).

However, when it comes to law enforcement if your CSI supervisor told you to go process a scene, then you go do it. If you're unhappy about, which Greg had every right to be, then you talk to her about it at another time and alone with just her, not with your co-workers present. Besides you saw Langston step up to take the case, how do you think it made Langston felt when Greg had his outburst. If it was me, it would have made me feel small and that Greg has a problem with me. Know what I mean?

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

I've always been told that the squeeky wheel gets the grease. In other words, if you say nothing, nothing happens. You'll wind up like the guy in "Working Stiffs". Was Greg in the right in "Family Affair"? Only if it leads to change.

I really hope I made sense

I don't think anyone, including me, is/was saying Greg was wrong for speaking up, how it went about it was what was wrong.

Do you really think that throwing a tantrum, in front of your co-workers, disrespecting your superior is the way to go about it? I don't think so.

I'm a manager of a Production department and we had someone on my staff like that. He disrespected me many times like that and I'm not the only one. When it came time to terminate someone, because business is slow, who do you think was the first one to go? Not the ones who last hired or less seniority, he was because of his past actions.

If Greg wants to keep his job then he needs to do some growing up and handle things in a more professional manner. He wants respect and show that he has grown and matured since being in the field (which he has), then he needs to show it.

When Nick wasn't happy about not getting solo DB cases, he talked with Grissom about it. Talked about it, and it was only him and Grissom. He didn't say anything while Sara and Catherine were there. He showed he was irritated, but he showed that irritation to Grissom and talked to him, ALONE.

Was Greg wrong for the way he felt, NO, was the way he went about it wrong? YES and that is what we are saying here.

Is Catherine wrong in this too, sure, but she may not think that Greg is ready to handle high profile cases yet (just like Grissom didn't think Nick could handle a solo DB case), or she plays the politics (unlike Grissom). Or it simply could be that she trusted Greg to handle the case more than anyone else or she is simply playing everyone's strong card with the cases. Langston does bring things to the table that Greg would not be able too, or Catherine, or Nick, or Sara could. (Even if it is dumbing down the characters and is freaking annoying).

However, when it comes to law enforcement if your CSI supervisor told you to go process a scene, then you go do it. If you're unhappy about, which Greg had every right to be, then you talk to her about it at another time and alone with just her, not with your co-workers present. Besides you saw Langston step up to take the case, how do you think it made Langston felt when Greg had his outburst. If it was me, it would have made me feel small and that Greg has a problem with me. Know what I mean?

I'm not saying Greg was right or wrong.

Was this employee of yours disrespectful all the time? Greg has never done anything like that previously. Guess I'm saying that for Greg to 'throw a tantrum' as you said it means that things are really bad. He has no prior history of this. As a manager, would this not send up warning flags that something is wrong?

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Guess I'm saying that for Greg to 'throw a tantrum' as you said it means that things are really bad. He has no prior history of this. As a manager, would this not send up warning flags that something is wrong?

Exactly! That's it in a nutshell. And as I said before, I don't think under normal circumstances that Greg would throw a fit in front of co-workers. I think the whole point of that scene was to show that they were ALL overworked and understaffed and exhausted and it got to them and brought out the worst in all of them. Greg and Nick never bicker with each other, yet they were sniping at each other in that scene becuase they were so tired. Normally, Greg would have probably gone to Cath privately and said something to her. But, he'd been holding that little rant inside for a very long time. The heat, the exhaustion, the overworked aspect and the understaffed aspect got to all of them in that scene.

They were ALL wrong in that scene. Cath was wrong for constantly pulling Greg off the high profile cases to do "trash runs" when its an unspoken rule that the newbie and lowest level should get that job. Greg was wrong for going on a rant like that in front of all of his co-workers and Nick was wrong for basically insulting/reprimanding Greg in front of co-workers. So, them all being wrong was a direct result of the heat combined with overworked, understaffed, stressed and exhaustion... Except for of course wonder-man Ray, he was the only one protrayed to have the right attitude in that scene. :lol: He apparently is incapbable of being wrong. Which is highly annoying. Just once can he please be wrong? He doesn't always have to be right... it doesn't make him any less of a CSI and it makes him more human. To err is human, after all.

 

[Destiny]

Untacking please feel free to continue the discussion.

 

[LastToKnow710]

After rewatching the epi, I wanted to comment about the breakroom scene. I really think that when Catherine looked at Sara after making the remark about saying things in the heat of battle, or whatever, I think Catherine was making peace with Sara, maybe remembering the Nesting Dolls scene. I think Marg wants the fans to move on. Or maybe I'm projecting. :lol:

I loved that scene. Actually, I've loved all the Cath/Sara scenes this. Maybe Marg and Jorja's suggestions are finally being taken seriously. There is no reason the characters couldn't have been close all along and it was getting ridiculous, especially given that Marg and Jorja are great friends in real life. When Cath/Sara were paired together, they always made the best team. We should get to see that more often.

 

[Kasey47]

After rewatching the epi, I wanted to comment about the breakroom scene. I really think that when Catherine looked at Sara after making the remark about saying things in the heat of battle, or whatever, I think Catherine was making peace with Sara, maybe remembering the Nesting Dolls scene. I think Marg wants the fans to move on. Or maybe I'm projecting. :lol:

I loved that scene. Actually, I've loved all the Cath/Sara scenes this. Maybe Marg and Jorja's suggestions are finally being taken seriously. There is no reason the characters couldn't have been close all along and it was getting ridiculous, especially given that Marg and Jorja are great friends in real life. When Cath/Sara were paired together, they always made the best team. We should get to see that more often.

I think it also has a lot to do with Sara no longer thinking she has to prove anything. She was at times a bit of a nudge in dealing with her co-workers. I think that it had a lot to do with unresolved feelings with Grissom but...

And I think that Greg is just feeling that since he outranks Ray that he should be treated with a bit more respect. While giving your supervisor lip is not the way to attain more respect, I think you have to look at the team dynamics to see that they are really more than just co-workers. I think this is why Greg felt he could say what he said to Catherine. It wasn't disrespect. It was just him stating his feelings.

 

[Wasabi Power]

Auhg, you know, I think we should all excuse both Greg and Cath.

I do not think Greg threw a tantrum, and I do not think Catherine is oblivious. I just think they're both human beings, even as characters on a show. And we all know what comes with being human. ;]

 

[LastToKnow710]

True. Family sticks together through good and through bad. Catherine has always been there for Greg, even taken him under her wing. I don't feel she's tossing him to the side or overlooking his feelings purposefully now. She is handling a lot. A whole lot. I think the way he handled the situation was wrong. But should he sit down and talk with Cath, really talk? Definitely.

This is where TV becomes annoying; we have to go along for the ride the writers choose to take us on, even if it's the wrong one which CSI has done several times. My fear is they'll be so caught up in creating drama, that they'll go completely out of character and make Cath or Greg into something they've never been. That will suck.

 

[myfuturecsi]

God, was that ever gag inducing.

Langston is an unattractive, fat bore who hogs the screen and kills the demos.

http://tvbythenumbers.com/2009/10/16...ts-highs/30547

Seriously, you couldn't come up with a more cohesive argument to express your dislike of a character.

 

[915]

God, was that ever gag inducing.

Langston is an unattractive, fat bore who hogs the screen and kills the demos.

Geez that is a little too harsh don't you think? Okay its obvious you don't like the guy, but that seems a little mean to me. I mean I don't like the character that much either, but I wouldn't have phrased it like that, you have the right to your opinion though. Just maybe you could have worded that differently cause that seems offensive.

 

[m1304m]

Recently, I had noticed that at the end of the analysis of the episodes it is stated that the site is closed for comments/views.

The only thing I can assume is that the producers do not welcome the view or opinions of irate diehard fans of CSI, who are aghast with the direction CSI, had taken since the exit of Peterson.

I supposed they realised that these honest views from CSI fans are causing their ratings to plummet.

In the 3rd episode it seemed that Sara had vanished suddenly. As Grissiom would say, “It is a molecular impossibility”. And now producers are saying that she might appear for more than 5 episodes. I won’t be surprised that in the middle of the Season, they would announce that she will stay on permanently – most probably there had been an increase in viewership since her return, nothing surprises me, what the producers would do to increase ratings. Maybe they will also announce that Sara and Grissom are filling for divorce – that would be a good reason for her to stay on in Vegas.

Poor Grissiom, didn’t he give up the job and lab that was his life for her and now after they got married and set up home in Paris, she suddenly realizes that she missed her colleagues and is very happy to return to work in Vegas.

In Season 9 episode 10, when Grissom left to join Sara in Costa Rica, they should have left it as it was. Maybe once in a while they make a guest appearance together to catch up with old friends. It is not realistic – it looks more like a fairytale. The irony is that in all the 3 episodes she had appeared. The viewers are constantly reminded that she is married to Grissom – it is obvious that the producers know that the audiences are not buying this whole story about Grissom and Sara. Moreover, I read some time ago that Jorja Fox had said that she was leaving CSI for she wanted to do many other things. It must be the lure of good money, which I don’t really blame her, after all the network were not very nice to her when they fired her at the beginning of Season 5.

Just like Lawrence Fishburne who is willing to risk his reputation as an Oscar nominee and sign up for Season 10 – I am very sure he must have read the reviews and criticisms that were targeted at him being a poor fit in – It all boils down to the “love of $$$”

I remember reading that in his early days, William Petersen turned down many roles that were offered for him to appear on TV dramas. He was not very sure he was a good fit and the money was not enticing to him – that is what I call a true artist.

In episode 4, we learnt that Sara had returned to Paris to spend the weekend with Grissom – WOW! I envy her; the lab must be paying her big bucks as a part-timer. Didn’t they recently say that they were sending Hodges and Mandy out to the fields due to budget constrain in the lab. Maybe the lab is paying for her weekends but I doubt that. Oh I stand corrected maybe she is just like Langston and pays everything from her own pocket.

Previously I loved CSI for its forensic and realism. Now, I do not know what to think of it. Moreover Eckley and Catherine had never been nice to Sara, and now suddenly she is indispensable. Recently, I have not seen fans writing into this site, I assume they are sick and tired of CSI, since Fishburne came on board. It is obvious that the producers will never get into their heads that Fishburne’s character is not only annoying but ridiculous. I can only aptly describe him as a BOIL in one’s Ass.

Just like in this episode 4, the scene in the break room and towards the end when all the CSIs had gathered to watch Langston recreating the crime scene. I felt so sorry for Willows, Stokes, Sidle and Sanders. They were made to look like rookies – Langston even instructed Nick an acting supervisor to stand and hold out his hand and explained to them how the crime was carried out.

What really surprises me is that the original team has been there for years and it is so embarrassing that a CSI II who had the fastest promotion is teaching these old dogs forensic. I have a very strong feeling that in real life Helenberger, Eads, Sazmandar and Fox feel belittled because they had been there from the beginning and suddenly just because Fishburne Oscar nominee overshadows all of them. – It is obvious the producers are sucking up to him. I feel so sorry for Sazmandar, he had become obsolete since the departure of Grissom

I have noticed Langston’s new wardrobe, it looks more like Grissom’s hand-me-downs, of course with the seams taken off at the side but unfortunately it was still too tight for him and you can give him a face transplant and make him look like Grissom and it will not work with the fans.

I buy every Season’s dvd, I will still buy Season 9 dvd, I will only keep the 10 episodes Grissom was in – the rest I will toss in the trash can.

My friends and I normally do not wish anyone ill BUT of late we are keeping our fingers crossed that CSI ratings will plunge so low that they would have to cancel it.

The best intentions are fraud by disappointment - Grissom

 

[xeri]

Just some short babbling:

To the LF thing, I think this epi they at least toned him down a little (there were far worse epis) and yeah I'm not a fan of dumbing down team members, but at least this time I get it: tptb used the black guy to point out that maybe it wasn't about racism and with Ray beeing still the physician and hanging out in the morgue, he HAD to solve the eye mystery

Oh I loved the line "Life goes on" used together with a new murder :guffaw:

Uhhh the tptb want some Greg blow up ...bring it on...

I'm neutral to the whole Gris/Sara thing, but I like how they portray Sara now and yeah I can believe it. They always were their own people while still loving each other. And she got a break and some loving background now while doing this job, no cases hitting her too personal and she's not overdoing it (week off)...

To the week off line: IMHO that wasn't overdoing GRS, but finally informing the viewer why one of the Charas vanished :shifty:

Yay for Hodges and Ecklie ( I just love them :lol: )

Ohhh please keep Moreno. I must confess I have A LOT to catch up on "Without a trace" (stopped in season 6 'cause of the time) but it's nice to see Enrique Murciano in another show :hugegrin: .

Overall I still don't give up on CSI. Was ranting about some epis and TPTB, but I hope they'll bring this season to a worthy end somehow and yeah maybe then it's time to let them go....we'll see....