^The 'middle-distance' gaze. Grissom and Horatio have that too. I'm sure Jack Bauer's done it too. It's an American tv show guy thing I think.
I think aflaw of Flack's character, at least of the way he is written, is that he doesn't have any obvious flaws. I know I mentioned some stuff in an earlier post, but that was just based on my own opinion not really on the what the writers have given us. The writers have given Mac, Stella, Danny and Lindsay all very obvious flaws - Mac's tendency to get on his high moral horse and his inability to see shades of gray, Stella's dreadful taste in men, Danny's godawful judgement of character when it comes to bad guys and his bad choice of relationships, and Lindsay's self-centeredness and whinyness. But with Flack they haven't really given him anything 'definite' in terms of flaws, and I would like to see that. I think it would be good character development, and I know Eddie's talented enough to really do well with anything they give him. He's so good at the snarkiness and the Flack/Danny and flirting with Angell stuff that I reckon he'd be able to really 'act out' a few flaws. I just posted this because the extract from the new NY book seemed to give Flack a couple of flaws or foibles, and I really liked that, and I think it's a shame the writers of the show haven't really done that with Flack yet. Or with Hawkes, Adam, or Sid actually.
That happened because Flack has about 5 minutes in screen. They just don't have the time. They're too busy with Danny :lol: And Hawkes? Who's that? *scratches head* I think Sid's flaw is "the creepy place", and Adam hasn't got enough love from TPTB as to have a decent storyline.
One of the biggest character issues I have on the show comes down to the level of general knowledge each character seems to have. Actually, this comes from a general peeve I have with TV shows that think their viewers are all idiots and that they must dumb down the science for ye olde viewers. And in doing so, they dumb down one (or more) characters... Sheldon being 'Google on Legs' I can buy. However, after that, I see the ability of some characters - Mac in particular - to reel off loads of titbit facts be pretty pretentious. It makes it seem like he knows everything. It also has the effect of making other characters who I would assume as Criminalists have a degree in a science and thus you'd expect to have a greater than average level of general knowledge, look stupid by comparison. Danny comes to mind instantly here because it seems he's the character upon the responsibility of getting the dumbed down version for the non-scientifically-minded viewers has been placed. One time in particular that made me cringe was in 'Child's Play' when Danny, who is a scientist trained in the minutiae of observation, can't even repeat back the name of a medical condition that was mentioned seconds before. WTF and NO! I get the need for bringing humanity to the geeks, but please. :scream: :censored: Also, I totally agree with the folk who've mentioned Stella's rack being on show with all these low cut tops. There have been a couple of times I've been surprised that the nips haven't made an appearance, the top has gone so low and the camera angle has been as such. One of these days they are just going to spill out... Outside of that, I think most of the flaws just serve to make the characters more human. Though they could chill out on the righteousness (Mac) and the whiny neediness (Danny).
The character that I have the most problems with is the one almost everyone seems to love: Danny. Yes, Danny has his good points. He seems like a fairly nice guy, he's funny, he's got nice arms and happens to look nice in his tight clothes. BUT I have a ton of issues with the darling of the show. For one thing, he's self-absorbed. In fact, I think he is more self-absorbed than the most hated character on the show (Lindsay). How is this possible? Basically from Season One up to Season Four all I have seen from Danny has been...all about Danny. Even when he was supposedly being supportive of Lindsay, it felt more like it was about him and his interest in her rather than his concern over how she was doing. Yes, he has a few moments where he stands up for the people he works with but with Danny's constant angst and never-ending Issues, it's hard for me to recall any. For example, the latest act of self-absorption has been to screw Rikki. Yeah, yeah, dealing with grief, yeah yeah, wants to get rid of his grief and guilt, etc. It's still inherently selfish. He's not doing it for Rikki; he's doing it for himself. Not only that, but there is the very real probability that he was dating (or in some sort of relationship) with Lindsay at the time. Even if Danny somehow thought that they were not 'going steady', it's been obvious to everyone on the forums and more importantly, on the show, that Danny and Lindsay have a more personal relationship than simply that of co-workers. If it turns out Danny had no idea that Lindsay felt anything towards him, then it just proves my point; he's too self-absorbed to notice. If he knew that Lindsay had feelings for him and he led her on, then he's not just self-absorbed, he's a real jerk. If he led her on and then slept with another woman, he is a self-absorbed cheating jerk. When Flack went over and beyond the bounds of friendship to help Danny out, all Danny could say was "Mind your own business". Flack was tired. He was supposed to go home and sleep. Instead he spent his time tracking his ungrateful friend around the city. When he finally found him, Danny made an agreement with him, which he later broke. He put not only his job on the line, but Flack's (and to a lesser degree, Lindsay's) job as well. The biggest problem I have with Danny's character is lack of development. I see no improvement or change in anything he does. He deals with his mistakes the same way -- denial that he's done anything wrong and reassigning guilt to other people. When something isn't really his fault he is over-board on guilt. And when other people actually seem to need him, he's not really there. I don't count him going to Montana as him being needed because he clearly wasn't. Lindsay was testifying on her own before Danny walked in. It was, once again, all about what he needed or wanted. Blech. Oh! and another thing about Danny that I despise: lack of motivation. I don't mean that he isn't motivated to do his job, but I mean, what motivates his character? His brother was mean to him. Ok. What else? There is nothing that has been said on-screen to explain to my satisfaction why he behaves the way he does. I don't get him. Everyone else I get. I got nothing when it comes to Danny. *deep breath* Now that I'm done (for now) ranting about Danny, I'll move on to Hawkes. Hill Harper is a talented actor. I wish I could say that I like Hawkes, but for the most part, I don't. I find him condescending and rude. I don't think he means to be that way, but (and this is especially around Flack), he has a tendency to treat people like they're morons. I realize that he is some uber-genius prodigy smarty-pants person, and this is probably a natural development from being such. I don't care. I don't like it. He is funny, and he does care about people. I know this. I just don't like his "I am all-knowing" and "I am good at all I do". The "I am smarter than you" attitude bugs me, but the episode where I really, really started to dislike him was "Murder Sings the Blues". He was concealing evidence, basically tampering with evidence, withholding information from his boss, not to mention the person he was working with, and somehow he expected to NOT get in trouble with Mac over that? WTF? He knew the victim! And his number was found at the scene! That connected him to the case!!! And then he gives Mac attitude??? I would have fired him. Luckily for Hawkes, Mac is far nicer than I am. And that leads me to How Many Times Would I have Fired the Characters? Adam - 0 Aiden - 1 Danny - 5 Flack - 2 Hawkes - 1 Lindsay - 2 Mac - 3 Peyton - 1 Sid - 0 Stella - 4 Ah, it feels good to get that off my chest.
I have to agree with the previous post, Danny's character is the most flawed of all and yet still probably the favourite. I find his character incredibly self centred. He chased Lindsay for months, flew to Montana to see her, had sex with her and carried on a relationship with her (if comments by the writers at the start of the season are anything to go by) and had the gall to look all surprised when she called herself his girlfriend. He treated Flack like crap when he had put his job on the line for him. He banged a grieving mother to make himself feel better about her sons death, very mature. And these are only examples from this season. He has acted out more times than anyone else on the show and any employer would have fired him by now. Stella's flaw - her cleavage being permanently on display and her god awful one liners. Apart from this I like the character.
Why Mac hasn't had words with Stella about the cleavage showing, I don't understand. It's not at all professional. And I also think Danny's very lucky to have Mac as a boss (yes, even though Mac is hard on him in s1) because as you say, anyone else would've fired him by now. I think Gerrard would have loved to see Danny get fired, he really doesn't like him, so Danny's very lucky that Mac's his boss not Gerrard.
Interesting topic. I do have a pet peeve that may be considered more writer oriented than character oriented. I do realize that CSI (in all three of its variations) is about the "science guys", not the "cop guys". But why do the writers have to make the cops morons? In CSI:NY, Flack is the cop. Got that. But why do they give the poor man lines like "You're going to have to explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old"? But the one that really set me off was Consequences with Truby. Six months prior to the events of the episode, Flack is the lead cop on a drug bust of 50 kilos of black cocaine. But he is so stupid he has no memory of it? Doesn't remember the bust. Doesn't remember the fact that black cocaine exists. No! We have to have Lindsey explain the whole thing to us (and Flack) Come on! The man didn't have a freaking lobotomy! Granted the cops aren't the "science guys" but, PLEASE!, let's give them a little credit. And couldn't, just once, one of the CSI's trust one of the cops instincts on the bad guy? They've been working police officers for some years now, don't we think that they've had some learning experiences to help them in their profession that don't involve test tubes? In Like Water for Murder, Flack recognized the signs of strangulation. Does Mac give him an atta boy? No. I would have been happy if Mac had said something snarky like "What, you after my job now?" Nope. No acknowlegement from Mac at all. Just the "middle distance stare". Rude. [/rant over] Yeah, I agree on this one. S2 and S3 were pretty bad about this attitude. It seemed he was always talking down to others (yes, especially Flack). S4 seems to have eased off of that a bit. Very welcome in my book. Oh, it feels sooooo good to finally say that!
My other main peeve would be with Mac. He is constantly telling people that instinct isn't enough and that they need to follow the evidence but he can do whatever the hell he wants. I'm referring to the episode where the guy is killed in the pigeon coop and the evidence points to the boy (can't remember the name). He ignores the evidence and lets the boy get away. I would have loved just this once for him to be wrong and Flack right!
Is it possible given the way Lindsay gave him mixed signals during season three that Danny genuinely doesn't know what to make of her feelings for him? As a viewer, I had no idea she was in love with him until she came out and said it. Like when? If anything, I've observed Danny feeling guilty more often than not about things he's done. He certainly acts like he believes Ruben's death is his fault. I'm not trying to deny you your right to find Danny flawed or to be annoyed by him, but some of your examples puzzle me. I can probably guess the 5 for Danny and the 1 for Hawkes based on what you've said above, but I'd be curious as to the times you would have fired the other characters.
I'm not sure what mixed signals she sent him. She was pretty consistent in showing him that she didn't want to get too close to him. Towards the end of season three she began to relax more and more around him, almost kisses him, and then finally they end up on his pool table. In Season Four we've seen her attempts to flirt with him and the physical nature of their relationship (they touch each other a lot more often than the other members of the team do, or more often than they touch others), so from what I've seen on-screen is a build-up towards a deeper relationship. One that has had a few roadblocks and pitfalls (and dreadful writing, might I add *snort*), but nonetheless a deeper relationship. I admit the "I'm in love with you" was a bit of a surprise simply because I'm not sure they've been in any relationship long enough for that to happen properly. Although if you consider how long the flirtation has been going on, I'm not sure it's a huge, huge shock. Everyone defines love differently, and that definition changes over time. Perhaps in a few months or even weeks Lindsay will realize that she isn't in love with Danny after all. He might be her first "serious" love interest, and she could be confusing her feelings for him for love. But that isn't the topic of this thread. Sorry. Let's see....as for firing everyone: I need to find my paper. I had it written out at one point because I was going to turn it into a LJ post along with an amusing character bashing session that my friend and I did. We managed to shred every single character to bits, even (my) beloved Flack and (her) beloved Danny. We even managed to be mean to poor Adam (he belongs to both of us, but only for petting. He's too cute for anything else). About Danny: I know he's been feeling guilty about Ruben. This could be considered character growth but based on how he's been behaving with the other characters, including Lindsay, I'd say he hasn't managed to shake off the attempts to put his guilt on other people. I'll explain this more in-depth when I have more time.
Giiiiirl, you better be careful now--Adam is my woobie and I protect him when necessary. *takes off earrings* Don't make me throw it down. :lol: *** Sheldon has a flaw! I found one! His handwriting is atrocious. Look at that 4HF, it looks like it's melting off of the board. (Yes, I know he was wearing gloves and writing on a vertical surface--and the take where we actually see him writing looks much more legible--but I had to post it. ) *screencap courtesy of Kimmy
^^ Fay shame don't hold that against Sheldon he used to be a doctor and doctors as we all know have the most atrocious handwritings on the planet so it kinda goes with the territory. Off topic but I loved this scene so much between these two Danny's "Me, me, me pick me!" Had me in stiches thanks for posting the picture:guffaw:
It kind of started with Hawkes bashing and went on from there. We decided to see how nasty we could be about Lindsay then, and we moved on to Danny and Flack and then Mac and Stella. I said that we had to be fair, so so Adam had to be abused in some fashion, and then Sid. I digress again. Why I would Fire All the Characters Mac: The entire fiasco with the Dobson case. Like seriously, who'd have their job after that mess? Bad, bad Mac. Go to my room and await punishment. :devil: Setting up a bomb in the lab. Explosions are fun, but it really seemed like a bad idea at the time, and Mac ended up killing two people and causing how much $$ damage to the lab, not to mention probable compromising of evidence? Not a good thing. Manhandling a suspect in "The Deep". I understand why he did it, but er...not allowed. (But it was soooo hot :drool: ) Flack: In general for not being a very good detective sometimes. I love him dearly but sometimes his ideas of "open and shut" are very bad and I wonder how he managed to become detective. I think "Dancing with the Fishes" was one where I was like, "You're an idiot", but there have been more cases of it than that. He didn't report Danny's gun as stolen in "All in the Family". He didn't immediately take Rikki into custody. Both were risky moves that he should have been fired for (or at least suspended). Stella: "Officer Blue" when she comes in and says "In Stella talk..." Yeah, "In Surreal talk, you're fired!" Um, the episode where Mac is checking over the evidence and Stella is all "I don't make mistakes". Yeah, you did. You're fired! Again! Stella's closed-minded approach to "Open and Shut" had me annoyed. Lindsay was very reasonable with her and Stella bit her head off, and then she was rude to Mac when he gently but correctly pointed out her mistake. Technically this is not something to be fired over, but by this time I was enjoying firing characters so she's fired anyway. Stella more than likely let her foster sister skip town. I understand why, I do. But she shouldn't have done it, and even though Mac doesn't know, I will fire Stella for him. Aiden - Was fired for tampering with evidence, and rightly so. She broke the seal on the evidence, and even if she didn't plant the hair, the defense could easily argue that she replaced the original hair with one from Pratt. Mac had to fire her, and I agree with him. Danny -- He lied to Mac in "Tanglewood". He should get fired for that. What else is he hiding if he's not being honest with Mac? He lied to Aiden in "Crimes and Misdemeanors". I know she caught him in the lie, but seriously, that was highly unprofessional of him and could have cost Aiden her job as well as him. I forget the one with the Gypsy cab driver, but I thought Danny was so unprofessional in it that I would have fired him. "Raising Shane" he went and talked to the bouncer. He could have seriously compromised the case. He could have gotten his whole team into trouble. It was risky and stupid, even if the intention was good. And in this season, his gun was stolen. He didn't report it. He didn't go into work. He ignored everyone who tried to help him. He didn't want to arrest Rikki at all. Etc. No matter what Danny is going through, that was completely inexcusable. He should have been fired. Lindsay -- Pretty much the entire case of "Oedipus Hex" she should have lost her job for any number of reasons. She lied to Mac in "All in the Family". The intention was good, but lying to the boss is just not acceptable. Plus she used lab equipment not on her case to hunt down Danny when he didn't show up. It's good that she did, but for all she and Flack knew Danny might have skipped work to go to a basketball game. I'm not sure if Lindsay should have been fired for leaving evidence out in the chocolate/shark/cab episode a few weeks ago. Danny was indeed there to put it away, but at the very least she probably should have gotten some sort of suspension or punishment. Hawkes -- He concealed evidence from Mac, didn't let Mac know that he knew or possibly knew the victim, and then he got all huffy when he got found out. The whole investigation could have crumpled because of that. Mac was right to be furious with him, and he was right to pull him off the case. Peyton -- She chewed Mac out over Sheldon. Mac is the boss and he's responsible for making sure the cases are as solid as possible. That means he needs to be alerted to rough areas of a case or possible conflicts of interest. She had no business telling him how he should run his lab, especially when Sheldon was so obviously in the wrong. So that's why I would fire the characters. Danny is feeling guilty over Ruben's death, which is fine. I actually thought his initial reaction to the news was excellent, and I even said so in my review of the episode. However, since that time Danny has fallen back to old patterns of behavior. Out of time again. I'll try to explain with examples when I get back.