*A BIT OF PERSPECTIVE, AND CALL FOR A "TRUCE" RE THE E/C ROMANCE.*

[Delquesne]

I think it's really a shame how opinions on the romantic relationship between Eric & Calleigh have devolved into this unfortunate "us vs. them" atmosphere. In all honesty, I really don't believe that the numbers of CSIM viewers who are for, against, or neutral on the E/C romance differ that greatly from those regarding romantic pairings on other police procedurals and crime dramas. But for some reason, opinions on the E/C romance have become galvanized on both sides, and neither set of fans seems willing to compromise or concede the smallest point.

The way I see it, it can't just be a matter of how much actual screen time is dedicated to Eric & Calleigh's relationship. Firstly, not every episode of CSIM (not even in Season 7) has contained E/C personal scenes. And secondly, even in those episodes where there have been E/C scenes, those scenes have typically taken up less than 3 minutes (less than 10%) of a 42-minute show. So it can't just be a matter of camera time. After all, much more camera time has been spent on Danny & Lindsay's relationship, marriage and baby on CSINY, and opinions on that romance don't appear (to me, at least) to be as galvanized as those regarding E/C.

If it's a matter of the "drama" surrounding E/C, believe me when I say that no one wants less drama for Eric & Calleigh than I do, and I know that I speak for many, many Hiphugger-fans when I utter this sentiment. Most of us E/C fans recognize (and appreciate!) that CSIM is first and foremost, a crime drama, and that's how the vast majority of us fans of the romance want it to stay. :thumbsup: Give me a few subtle, drama-free Eric & Calleigh moments here and there in Season 9, and I'd be satisfied. IMO, the drama should be shifted to some of the other characters on the show! :lol: And since a lot of E/C-fans feel the same way I do, this shouldn't be a source of contention between fans on both sides of the romance.

I'm completely at a loss as to why the debate about Eric & Calleigh's romance has become so crystallized on both sides, and oftentimes, downright mean. Somewhere along the line, the lines between what actually happens on the show, and the fan fiction universe and wishful-thinking of E/C fans, have become blurred. As a result, I believe that the E/C romance has become somewhat larger-than-life, and has taken on much more importance than it's accorded on the actual show. It's gotten to the point now where some people can't discuss other facets of the show without feeling the need to take pot-shots at Eric, Calleigh, their relationship, or the actors, even if they're not relevant to the subject being discussed. As a result, I am hesitant to visit many CSIM-related threads here other than the E/C thread in Shipper Central, for fear of stumbling upon snide remarks about the couple.

I find myself longing for the days when everyone on both sides of the E/C debate could just acknowledge that chemistry and romance are in the eye of the beholder, and just politely agree to disagree. And I wish we could all just call a "truce" of sorts to this effect. It would make this message board and so many other CSIM forums, TV news websites, etc., much nicer places to be for all fans.

The lack of fan unity (or at least respect) here and in other CSIM web forums regarding the E/C romance truly saddens me ...

Please pardon my prolonged commentary, but I just had to get this off my chest.

MODS: I decided to post this in a "New Thread" because it didn't seem to me to fit anywhere else on this forum. It's not exactly suited to the "Why We Dislike the E/C Romance" thread here in the CSIM forum, nor does it exactly accord with the purpose of the "Debate/Dislike a Ship" thread for CSIM in Shipper Central. However, if you think differently, please feel free to move this post as you deem appropriate. Thanks!

 

[Jag Lady]

I don't know that there's much I could add to that, Delquesne. :thumbsup: Although when I'm a little more awake, I'll think about it.

 

[inthewind]

............. And I wish we could all just call a "truce" of sorts to this effect.............

:wtf: I couldn't disagree more. The sole intent of the "Dislike E/C" thread is/was to avoid offending the pro-shippers, while allowing an avenue to vent the mounting dissatisfaction with this pairing. Granted, the high emotions often seep into other threads, but to a much lesser degree than would otherwise be the case.

There's no truce needed if there's no confrontation. There would be no confrontation if each side contained their polarizing comments within the thread set aside for that purpose.

This isn't "a bit of perspective". It's a shipper's perspective.

 

[hiphugger17]

inthewind
There would be no confrontation if each side contained their polarizing comments within the thread set aside for that purpose.

Yes, wouldn't this be nice? Going into threads and actually reading what that thread is supposed to be about.

 

[D&Daddict]

This isn't "a bit of perspective". It's a shipper's perspective.

The last time I checked, Jag Lady was not an EC shipper, yet she agrees with Delquesne...

Delquesne, this is an excellent initiative... theoretically only. I have long ago given up on reconciling, reasoning...etc. I just avoid all threads that I find offensive. My only peeve is when those kind of comments spill over other threads that are supposed to be more on the neutral side.

 

[Florry86]

Ok I've been posting on this forum for more than 3 years and I've come to learn many many things. One of this: there will always be a so-called a cold war between the E/C supporters and the anti-E/C fans of the show. Things will never improve and there won't be any chance for us to agree or come to a sort of agreement with you and vicevers. Considering where we've come to, it is literally impossible.

I define myself a rather diplomatic person...at least that's what I used to be until up a year ago. I was never in agreement with what you E/C fans said, but I did never get pissed off because of what you had said or, better say, because of what was happening with the show.

But things have become pretty ugly lately all over the forum. I keep telling myself it's because of the show, but I know that it's not true. Not matter what, some people will never get over this "war". I am not making any names but whenever we (I mean in general all the fans of the show) post something poeple have to aruge on it no matter what or how....we do.

When it comes to E/C things get even worse. I still remember when we (this time I mean those people who don't like E/C) coouldn't say anything because, as soon we started saying something against E/C (even in the most polite way possible), we always got reproached by the mods. We couldn't express our opinion agains the couple at all. Even if we were to talk about our favourite ship, we couldn't mention anything against E/C. I certainly didn't like the atmosphere back some years ago, but I never complained because, again, I define myself diplomatic.

Fortunately or, better say in this case (at least from a very persona POV), unfortunately things got worse on the show that it has come to a point when I so do not want to watch it anymore because of the romance. I am not the only one on this forum who has come to this point, I am not the only one complaining about this stuff....many people are doing so and many others will join our group. Maybe that's the reason why we are now able to complain about E/C openly without being constantly reproached.

It is quite funny that right now, when we (anti- E/C) are able to openly express our opinion against the couple (even involving the actors 'cause, from a POVV...they've overstepped on the show...but then again it is very personal), E/C people start complaining about what's going on the forum. It is also quite ironic that right now you want some truce.

Again, I'm a diplomatic person but I don't see why should call for a truce. Really, I don't get it. We have our thread to go aginst E/C in general and you have your thread to droll oever and love this couple. I really don't see why should call a truce.
We can rant against the couple as long as we want in our thread, and you can love it in your thread as long as you want. Once you step in our thread, things will get ugly. Once we step in your thread, things will get ugly
We will never agree on this matter. As some of you kept repeating a while ago..."we agree to disagree"!!!!!

So instead of calling a truce (rather useless I might add), why don't we agree to disagree? Why don't we agree not to read a thread we are sure we won't like it. Why do you have to read the dislike thread? Why do we have to read the E/C thread? Do you see what I mean.
Mods will do the rest and control that thing won't go ugly in the other thread, but I truely can't see how it ill ever be possible for all of us to call a truce.
It like for Bush to call a truce with Osama Bin Laden....rather pointless...we (all of us posters in this forum) will never call it

I'm really sorry for this quite long post, but I really don't see the point in calling a truce between two groups like ours.....

 

[kala79]

............. And I wish we could all just call a "truce" of sorts to this effect.............

:wtf: I couldn't disagree more. The sole intent of the "Dislike E/C" thread is/was to avoid offending the pro-shippers, while allowing an avenue to vent the mounting dissatisfaction with this pairing. Granted, the high emotions often seep into other threads, but to a much lesser degree than would otherwise be the case.

There's no truce needed if there's no confrontation. There would be no confrontation if each side contained their polarizing comments within the thread set aside for that purpose.

This isn't "a bit of perspective". It's a shipper's perspective.

I agree with the purpose of 'dislike' EC thread, however, as Delquesne said, almost every thread here apart from shipper thread has been affected by this pair. There should be no venting in other threads, not in Ryan or Natalia, or Jesse threads as I used to go there quite often and now I don't feel like as I'm not sure what I'll read there...
Believe me, I really don't want EC drama anymore and I think the writers are not handling this relationship well, but I love the couple and wish this relationship was less controversial.
CSI Miami writers are known to overkill the topic. It used to be too much Horatio and his one-liners, to the degree that I stopped watching CSIM. There was too much mafia - not one, but 3! Too much drama in EC(the same kind of drama). I have a feeling that next season will be Ryans, but I doubt they will do it well.
I do have to admit, though, that writers are listening to us recently. EC scenes are more subtle(apart from this near-death situations), cases are more interesting, more team interaction. Let's give them a credit and hopefully next season there will be no EC or other topic to split the fanbase

 

[MiamiWolfe]

First of all, I want to go on record as saying that I am not a E/C shipper in any way, shape or form (although to be fair, I don't ship in general). Since I feel that I am entitled to my opinions, and as long as my postings are constructive and I show respect for those who disagree with me, I don't feel that I need to "compromise" or "concede" anything.

Yes, wouldn't this be nice? Going into threads and actually reading what that thread is supposed to be about.

There should be no venting in other threads, not in Ryan or Natalia, or Jesse threads as I used to go there quite often and now I don't feel like as I'm not sure what I'll read there...

Well, unfortunately, this romance, in the minds of the fans of the other characters, has pushed their favorites into the background, and ignoring and underutilizing them in the process, so natually these frustrations are going to spill into the characters' individual threads.

:wtf: I couldn't disagree more. The sole intent of the "Dislike E/C" thread is/was to avoid offending the pro-shippers, while allowing an avenue to vent the mounting dissatisfaction with this pairing. Granted, the high emotions often seep into other threads, but to a much lesser degree than would otherwise be the case

There's no truce needed if there's no confrontation. There would be no confrontation if each side contained their polarizing comments within the thread set aside for that purpose.

This isn't "a bit of perspective". It's a shipper's perspective.

I completely agree. We have our thread (thank the stars) and the shippers have theirs. I don't understand why either side would want to visit the other, unless it is to throw gasoline on the fire.

Ok I've been posting on this forum for more than 3 years and I've come to learn many many things. One of this: there will always be a so-called a cold war between the E/C supporters and the anti-E/C fans of the show. Things will never improve and there won't be any chance for us to agree or come to a sort of agreement with you and vicevers. Considering where we've come to, it is literally impossible

I define myself a rather diplomatic person...at least that's what I used to be until up a year ago. I was never in agreement with what you E/C fans said, but I did never get pissed off because of what you had said or, better say, because of what was happening with the show.

But things have become pretty ugly lately all over the forum. I keep telling myself it's because of the show, but I know that it's not true. Not matter what, some people will never get over this "war". I am not making any names but whenever we (I mean in general all the fans of the show) post something poeple have to aruge on it no matter what or how....we do.

When it comes to E/C things get even worse. I still remember when we (this time I mean those people who don't like E/C) coouldn't say anything because, as soon we started saying something against E/C (even in the most polite way possible), we always got reproached by the mods. We couldn't express our opinion agains the couple at all. Even if we were to talk about our favourite ship, we couldn't mention anything against E/C. I certainly didn't like the atmosphere back some years ago, but I never complained because, again, I define myself diplomatic.

Fortunately or, better say in this case (at least from a very persona POV), unfortunately things got worse on the show that it has come to a point when I so do not want to watch it anymore because of the romance. I am not the only one on this forum who has come to this point, I am not the only one complaining about this stuff....many people are doing so and many others will join our group. Maybe that's the reason why we are now able to complain about E/C openly without being constantly reproached

It is quite funny that right now, when we (anti- E/C) are able to openly express our opinion against the couple (even involving the actors 'cause, from a POVV...they've overstepped on the show...but then again it is very personal), E/C people start complaining about what's going on the forum. It is also quite ironic that right now you want some truce.

Again, I'm a diplomatic person but I don't see why should call for a truce. Really, I don't get it. We have our thread to go aginst E/C in general and you have your thread to droll oever and love this couple. I really don't see why should call a truce.
We can rant against the couple as long as we want in our thread, and you can love it in your thread as long as you want. Once you step in our thread, things will get ugly. Once we step in your thread, things will get ugly.
We will never agree on this matter. As some of you kept repeating a while ago..."we agree to disagree!!!

"So instead of calling a truce (rather useless I might add), why don't we agree to disagree? Why don't we agree not to read a thread we are sure we won't like it. Why do you have to read the dislike thread? Why do we have to read the E/C thread? Do you see what I mean.
Mods will do the rest and control that thing won't go ugly in the other thread, but I truely can't see how it ill ever be possible for all of us to call a truce.
It like for Bush to call a truce with Osama Bin Laden....rather pointless...we (all of us posters in this forum) will never call it

I'm really sorry for this quite long post, but I really don't see the point in calling a truce between two groups like ours.....

I really don't believe a truce is possible, even if needed, at this point. This story arc is too emotionally charged to have a constructive debate. IMO, the shippers are so emotionally invested and so protective of it, they get upset if others don't see it their way and that's when the words "haters" and "bullies" are thrown out. The non-shippers (well, maybe I should only speak for myself here) become very offended being called names, and being made to feel as if their opinions are wrong and they have no right and no business expressing them, and so the sniping on both sides continues and we are off to the races.......

We are going to have to adapt the "agree to disagree" motto. Although I don't and will never care for this romance, I really truly believe the shippers are entitled to their viewpoints and opinions and will fight for their right to express it (as long as no one is attacked and the name calling is left elsewhere). I just don't feel the other side shares this same philosophy.

Believe me, I really don't want EC drama anymore and I think the writers are not handling this relationship well, but I love the couple and wish this relationship was less controversial.
CSI Miami writers are known to overkill the topic. It used to be too much Horatio and his one-liners, to the degree that I stopped watching CSIM. There was too much mafia - not one, but 3! Too much drama in EC(the same kind of drama). I have a feeling that next season will be Ryans, but I doubt they will do it well.

And this maybe the one point that shippers and non shippers alike can come together on. Let's lay the issues and problems with this story arc at the feet of those responsible: the writers.

In general, I never can understand that when a show's ratings are down and it is going through tough times, that the knee jerk reaction is to purge the cast. A show is only as good as the story arcs and the actors only as good as the words wrote for them, so why don't all eyes turn toward the writing staff when things go south?

I have made it no secret that I believe this writing staff needs an overhaul. This group lacks imagination, is lazy and their basic writing skills are wanting. For example in BackFire, Calleigh is in a fire and as lung troubles. Where have I seen this before? Oh, yeah that's right, season 7 Smoke Gets in Your CSIs!!! New writers could bring in a new perspective, new ideas and storylines and could give this show a kick start. Will it happen? Probably not. But there is always hope, I guess.

 

[miamirocks]

Well, the way I see it, E/C has been defining CSI:Miami since the end of Season 6, and even Season 5. All the promotion, all the "drama," and the relegation of the rest of the cast and the lack of solid team interaction are just some of the reasons why we are venting about this relationship. (I don't want to speak for everyone who dislikes E/C, but this is the feeling I'm getting).

The whole point of the E/C dislike forum is to let us vent and lay out our case as to why we dislike E/C - for most of us, it has to do w/the direction in which the relationship has taken the show. While these E/C romance moments may only be a few minutes of a 42-minute ep., that's still a heck of a lot for a procedural drama that hardly ever goes into the private lives (let alone the sex lives) of the characters.

One point many have made on the dislike thread is that the E/C drama (and no one can deny that it's been major drama the past few years) has hurt the show. Basically, I (and others) feel that Eric and Calleigh no longer interact well with the rest of the team (ie: Calleigh's harsh relationship w/Ryan the past few years and Cal's zero interaction w/Horatio, etc.)

Also, the writers seem to ignore a lot of aspects of the characters themselves - it seems that the relationship has not only changed the interaction Eric and Cal have w/their co-workers (changed it for the worse, IMHO), but it has also changed them. The characters have gone backwards, IMHO, and are acting immature at times, even during their line of work (again, IMHO - I would reference the second-to-last ep. of Season 8 where Cal follows Eric in a company vehicle and they both act pretty immaturely, IMO). Also, why does Cal always have to be the one in distress - why can't she save someone, like maybe Horatio or Ryan? Why can't she have more friendly interaction like she used to w/the rest of the team. And Eric - it just seems like he's looking at Cal like a piece of meat, and treating her like one w/his smarmy occasional comments. I don't like that. The characters are deeper and better than that.

I could outline examples, but it's not really the right thread to do it in. It seems they're both very cold and indifferent to the other team members, esp. when they are w/each other. And for those of us who don't like E/C to begin with, it's a bit hard to watch.

Also, I used to really like the friendship between Eric and Cal, but now it seems it has been degenerated to sexual comments and fluffy words. Nothing seems genuine to me anymore. Back in the earlier seasons, they had a natural friendly chemistry, but now that chemistry has, IMO, been abused and misdirected. The E/C romance storyline has been so prominent and pushed that I don't think the writers allowed it to develop naturally - they just started pushing it. They turned the nice moment from "Man Down" (which I really liked between Eric and Cal), and forced it into a romantic situation later on. IMO, it never "developed", it just "happened" - like Eric getting shot in the head. It seems like it's straight out of a fanfic, and I feel that way about most of the E/C things - it just plays like shoddy fanfic on-screen.

Anyhow, while E/C may only get a few minutes in, let's say, every other ep., that's more than most of the other characters get w/their personal lives. (Where's Natalia? And wow, can they please give Ryan more air time and show his private life a bit? He's been on the show for six years and we hardly know anything about him!) I much preferred episodes like "Under the Influence," where the characters' personal lives were exposed a bit, but in a less "drama"-filled way - it was more subtle and smart. The show was more subtle and smart, back in the day.

While I'm an unabashed H/C shipper, I always enjoyed the show and how the team was a family. I never was "upset" when Cal was dating Hagen, Peter Elliot or Jake. I wasn't crazy about it, but it never really bothered me - I actually enjoyed some of those storylines and never expected H and Cal to be more than friends on-screen - but now they're not even that on-screen, which is really sad.

All of Cal's other relationships, even w/Jake, was never as "in your face" like E/C has been - and by "in your face" I mean the bedroom scene, the closing few minutes of a few of the Season 9 eps; the drama in the hospital w/both of them - you'd think no one else cared about Calleigh enough to talk to her in the hospital! And the finale - yea, I didn't see that end shot coming ... how else would you end a CSI:Miami episode than w/Cal in distress and Eric screaming. Seems to be the pattern - it's like the new "one-linters.")

I just want the friendships back - I want that team "family" spirit that we got some glimpses of in Season 8 when the team went out for drinks, etc. I want to see Cal have Ryan's back and not throw him under the bus in front of Eric. (THere's a dramatic character shift right there - Cal used to be so loyal.) I want the TEAM to work together as a TEAM again, but it seems like E/C is an obstacle to that - it's always E/C paired up, talking about something personal or other than a case, etc. (I'd say 80% of the time, although you can't really count this season b/c AR wasn't on full time, but even then they were together a hell of a lot.)

Anyway, I think the main point is that there are people out there who believe E/C is negatively impacting the entire show, and we back our points up w/evidence. (This is CSI, isn't it? ) So yes, E/C is a point of contention b/c we believe it's having a ripple affect and bleeds into other areas of the show. There are many who like E/C, and would like less "drama" between the two, which is great - you can have your opinions, of course! But I believe we're going to have to agree to disagree. I've experienced what Florry86 said about always being hit by the mods when we expressed any dislike of the E/C storyline - now that it's been opened up so we can vent, I don't think it would be a good idea to close it off.

I'd like to get along w/all Miami fans - we love the same show, don't we? However, when those opposing the E/C dislike thread keep complaining about us, there's bound to be further hard feelings. It's just frustrating - can we all stay in our respective corners and play nice?

 

[mjszud]

I was a bit hesitant in posting here, but I feel the need to say a few things.
It appears to me that the major issue here is about acceptance. Non E/C fans have accepted there were supporters for the couple/storyline long ago, just as everyone accepts that there are supporters for other ships, characters, storylines, ect.
As far as I'm concerned, what needs to be done is rather simple....accept that there are fans/viewers who don't agree & dislike the couple/storyline. Accept that there will be issues with the show & aspects that some people will not like. Accept that just as E/C fans can go into other threads & shed the "e/c love", non fans should have the same right.
I've never seen anyone shy away from posting how "fabulous" the e/c scenes were in particular episodes in the episode threads, or in the actors threads....however, when it comes to those who dislike what we see, we're supposed to keep it in our own thread & never speak of it elsewhere.

All I can ask for is that people just simply ACCEPT the fact that some fans do not like this storyline. Period. I can certainly accept that you all "luv" this ship....good for you, I won't ever try to change your mind. But for the love of God why is there a need to take such hateful words such as "bashers" & "haters" & throw it all over the web in comment sections, numerous message boards, & even on twitter pages. Alot of people use the same name, remember. I know who you are & what you post elsewhere. While it may not be anything written in this forum, it's splattered elsewhere with content about our posts HERE at talk CSI. I've seen it (on accident, trust me), & I've even seen some of the comments here be qouted & then taken to other sites for God's sakes. :wtf:

I just don't understand why it's so difficult to accept the fact that we have different opinions. You love them, we don't. You think it's makes the show better, we feel it does more harm than good. Accept that, & it will be a happier place.

Also, I'm just going to be brutally honest & blunt here -- you can be an adult and deal with it or not -- please knock off the majority/minority crap (this is directed to anyone & everyone on both sides). It doesn't help either side, & NEITHER side even knows the facts. There are no statistics. It only fuels the fire to see posts saying that non-fans are only 10% & ladidida.....no one knows that, ok. Let's just put it this way: there are plenty who like the couple, & plenty who do not. Can't we just leave it at that?

For myself & fellow "non e/c supporters", I just want space. I would love to chat/discuss other characters/storylines with supporters of e/c, but it's a 'MUST' that our opinions on this particular subject is looked over while we're in other threads. If neither side is capable of doing that, then the "war" in this forum will never ease up.
Also ('few things' turns into a damn novel, sorry), discussion about the actors & characters in this particular subject will come up in other threads if there are comparisons being made -- it all goes back to 'OPINIONS' & whether or not we can accept that people think/feel differently, and just move on.

 

[Blinded By Smoke]

I am not for them or against them. I don't really care either way, my only 'issue' is the fact that I feel, too, that just about everyone else on the show has been neglected. I was re-watching season 6 the other week, and it seem like the two of them are in every scene... when on other shows (and in the past on Miami), they'd at least split the screen time... This season wasn't that way. This season was GOOD in terms of screen time (well, the second half was better, when they finally begin to use Eva again)... In other shows that have ships (IE Danny/Lindsay, Griss/Sara, Tony/Ziva), you don't see an overwhelming amount of screen time for them at any point. I mean, it's like the writers use the scenes when they are in the field (EVERY scene that they are in the field) for them to have sexual banter and non-sense, stuff that could be subtle, and come off much better on a show like this.... CSI: M writers play it up like I see on Daytime soaps, and we all know where that boat is headed....

That being said, I don't HATE fans of the ship, at all. And I'm usually neutral/quite about it. I do ship, though. I used to be a HUGE CaRWash shipper(more so in fics though, I liked their friendship ON the show)... but even with this, they can't even maintain that great friendship they once had, because Calleigh can't show an ounce of kindness towards Wolfe, for whatever reason... I personally blame it on her relationship with Delko.

I miss the team's relationship. I miss the banter, and the entire teams ability to work together, like we seen in S.8... I want that back for season 9! As far as I'm concerned, they can keep their romance going... and be in love... all of that is fine... SO long as it is SUBTLE and not mentioned EVERY episode. And so long as they allow Eric AND Calleigh to work the field with OTHER team members, and treat them with the respect they deserve!!!!

Hope that makes sense... lol. Bottom line: I don't hate the shippers, at all. Or the ship, really... just the way the writers have played it out.

 

[inthewind]

:guffaw::guffaw:Watching yet another thread devolve into the warring factions proves the point, doesn't it?

 

[Finch]

The fundamentals of this forum are basically something that needs to be reviewed by all members visiting, whether they're in support of the storyline or not.

-Everyone's entitled to their opinion.
-Everyone's opinions are to be respected.
-Positive and negative opinions are welcomed equally with the above 2 guidelines being followed.

I still remember when we (this time I mean those people who don't like E/C) coouldn't say anything because, as soon we started saying something against E/C (even in the most polite way possible), we always got reproached by the mods. We couldn't express our opinion agains the couple at all.

I don't know if this is in reference to the Miami Forum or Shipper Central (as SC is geared more toward the positive with the exception of the debate threads), but before E/C became official, we did direct people in the Miami Forum to Shipper Central as it was a more appropriate place to discuss relationships but I, at least genuinely don't recall ever specifically saying "you can't say anything negative about E/C". When it became canon, it was decided that we would allow more 'shipper discussion in this forum as it was just another aspect of the episode(s). I do know that I've stated many, many times that both positive and dissenting opinions were welcomed here.

The only time the E/C topic has ever been an issue is when people attack other posters and if the actors are personally being trashed (for example, and this doesn't necessarily reflect something specifically said here, there's a difference between "I didn't feel he/she effectively portrayed the emotion/action in X scene; perhaps it's a lack of acting experience" and "Emily Procter is explative this and explative that, what a loser"). And also when it started taking over a few threads, thus the dislike thread was created to centralize discussion.

Going back to the guidelines above, they aren't that hard to follow and everyone here knows what behaviour is expected of them. If it's just too difficult to ignore a thread or a post/poster, then maybe it's time to remember that CSI:Miami is just a television show and there's more to life than Eric/Calleigh. There's even more to life than TalkCSI! :lol: As much as it pains me to say it, lol.

I have to look after my own behaviour too -- I'm not perfect nor above the rules (and Bonz will tell you that; she's not afraid to kick our ass if we're out of line :lol. There are times I have to go back and overlook my post to make sure I haven't crossed a line somewhere, and that 'preview message' button is a godsend. My point being, something will inevitably get on our nerves at some point and there is good way to handle it and a bad way.

Ships always elicit a passionate response (it's why SC was constructed in the first place) but we [the mods] are here to make sure a relatively good atmosphere is maintained and that the rules are being followed. Not everyone is going to be happy 100% of the time but we always try to keep the forum's best interests in mind.

To clarify where we stand on the issue: Everyone's free to love or hate the E/C storyline all they want. You don't have to agree with one another but you DO have to co-exist on the board and if that means ignoring a thread/poster that bothers you or putting the keyboard away for a while, so be it. It'll cause less of a headache for both members and mods alike. In the end, we're all here for the same reason -- to discuss CSI:Miami, love it or hate it.

What's needed is simply an understanding that it takes all kinds to make up a community and making an effort to co-exist will go a long way. The little digs at each other and running back and forth between threads to discuss the other side does nothing but inflame already high emotions. Everyone here seems pretty reasonable so there's no reason why we can't all be civilized to one another.

All this being said, I don't want this thread to turn into a free-for-all and if/when it outlives its purpose (because I believe in a lot of ways, maybe this thread was needed to air out some of the tension), it'll probably be closed.

 

[Delquesne]

First off, permit me to say thank you to all of those who read and responded to my post with an open mind.:thumbsup: IMO, there's been an absence of constructive dialogue recently on the subject of the E/C romance, so it has been a really refreshing change to find it in this thread.

This isn't "a bit of perspective". It's a shipper's perspective.

Well, I've never made any secret of the fact that I'm a card-carrying E/C fan, so I suppose if one wants to be pedantic about it, my perspective must necessarily be a "shipper's perspective." But my comments were meant to be universal in nature, and were intended to address CSIM fans on both sides of the E/C debate.

Let me clarify that my concern does not stem from the mere fact that there are some CSIM fans who don't support the romance between Eric & Calleigh. I would never expect all fans of any TV series to agree on every element of a show, be it a romantic relationship, storyline, character development, etc. That wouldn't be realistic, and would be contrary to plain old human nature. And that's why the "Dislike" and "Debate" threads should always have a place here.

Rather, what saddens me is the tone of the debate, which I believe has become unnecessarily acrimonious on both ends of the spectrum. I'm reminded of a "war" (to borrow a term that some other posters here have used), in which both sides have become so accustomed to just fighting that people have lost sight about what they're really fighting about. And if one truly steps back and looks at the real points of contention, it turns out that they're not that major. This type of situation can usually be resolved only if someone from one side of the proverbial battle raises a "white flag" of sorts. So I suppose that's what I'm attempting to do here.

I suspect that I have much in common with many of the non-shippers on this and other CSIM forums ... at least, outside of the E/C romance. And it saddens me that I may never get to discover these areas of common ground and share thoughts with non-Hiphugger-fans because the excessively hostile E/C debate has become so overblown that it now taints practically anything and everything to do with the show, including many non-E/C-related threads on this and other fan boards.

Of course, one solution is, as many have suggested, for E/C shippers and non-shippers to stick to their respective threads, and to try to keep the debate from bleeding over into other topics. And that is certainly a solid resolution, if all parties involved do their best to play by the rules. The other solution -- and perhaps I'm being overly idealistic here -- might be for fans on both sides to dial-down the hostility, and just respectfully agree to disagree. That's by no means to suggest that either the pro- or anti- E/C ship threads shouldn't continue. (Naturally, they should). But if the debate as a whole were to become more constructive and less bitter, I think it would go a long way toward boosting the morale of all fans on the CSIM boards and mending (or at least partially repairing) the rift that exists in the show's fan base.

I recognize that some believe that my efforts at a "truce" are futile, and perhaps you folks are right. Maybe fans on both sides have become so used to the acrimony that it's too late to change anything. Which is quite regretful, in my view.

But I felt that at least someone had to try to fix things, even if it ends up being in vain.

Anyhow, thanks again for giving me a place to express my concerns, and for listening to my prolonged 2 cents. (No one would ever accuse me of being brief!:guffaw I hope that I'll have the opportunity to engage in further constructive discussions with all fans of CSIM elsewhere on the message board.

EDIT:

All this being said, I don't want this thread to turn into a free-for-all and if/when it outlives its purpose (because I believe in a lot of ways, maybe this thread was needed to air out some of the tension), it'll probably be closed.

Thanks, Finch. I just spotted your post; I think that your post crossed paths with mine in cyberspace. And, as usual, your points are very well taken. I really appreciate the fact that you recognized the purpose of my starting this thread. And since I don't want it to deteriorate into an inflammatory space either, I completely agree with your decision to close it if/when that does happen, or the topic otherwise fizzles out.

~ Mia (Delquesne)

 

[miamirocks]

Let me clarify that my concern does not stem from the mere fact that there are some CSIM fans who don't support the romance between Eric & Calleigh. I would never expect all fans of any TV series to agree on every element of a show, be it a romantic relationship, storyline, character development, etc. That wouldn't be realistic, and would be contrary to plain old human nature. And that's why the "Dislike" and "Debate" threads should always have a place here. Rather, what saddens me is the tone of the debate, which I believe has become unnecessarily acrimonious on both ends of the spectrum.

Well said. I'm sorry if I misconstrued your intentions for starting this thread, mia. It's just that for a long time I'm used to being on the defensive w/E/C shippers, and it's hard to get out of that mindset. What you say is good, and I'm sorry if things have gotten a bit "acrimonious" - I don't think I've helped rectify that b/c I'm kind of passionate about this debate and also have had some bad experiences w/some E/C fans in the past.

I suspect that I have much in common with many of the non-shippers on this and other CSIM forums ... at least, outside of the E/C romance. And it saddens me that I may never get to discover these areas of common ground and share thoughts with non-Hiphugger-fans because the excessively hostile E/C debate has become so overblown that it now taints practically anything and everything to do with the show, including many non-E/C-related threads on this and other fan boards.

I know what you mean. I miss the "good old days" when we could just discuss the show, and then keep our respective ships to the shipper central threads. I'm sure there are things we have in common about the show, and I wish we could talk about them w/out getting involved w/the E/C relationship. It's just that everything in the show is so connected to that ship now - it's redefined the show in many ways.

But if the debate as a whole were to become more constructive and less bitter, I think it would go a long way toward boosting the morale of all fans on the CSIM boards and mending (or at least partially repairing) the rift that exists in the show's fan base.

Yes! To me, constructive debate is where non-E/C shippers lay our cards on the table - our reasons for disliking the ship - and E/C shippers lay your cards on the table (why you like them), and we look at the facts. Of course we will have to agree to disagree - I doubt we'd win each other over simply b/c it boils down to a matter of preference - but it would be refreshing to have a E/C shipper and non-E/C shipper have a calm, rational debate that lays out both sides of the argument w/out getting into nasty comments about the fans themselves. I don't know if this is possible, but we'll see!