*A BIT OF PERSPECTIVE, AND CALL FOR A "TRUCE" RE THE E/C ROMANCE.*

[Finch]

^ Basically this.

It's not a matter of 'they have 2 so why can't we'. That's not really how the forum works; it's about supply and demand. There was a great demand to discuss the issues with the storyline as evidenced by the many times the topic took over numerous threads and thus a new thread was created to centralize discussion and reduce overspill.

It was decided for various reasons (reducing inter-forum 'ship wars' being a large one) that one 'like' thread and one 'dislike' thread was enough on the board. Like was said above, the debate thread in Shipper Central is for ALL ships related to CSI:Miami. Those who don't want to wade through discussion of other ships have a main place to discuss it here - since it is canon - and those who don't want to wade through countless pages of Eric/Calleigh are able to have more 'ship debates there concerning relationships that aren't canon. Not to mention there's been no E/C discussion there since March, so technically, there's aren't two threads dedicated to the topic. If both were actively being used to discuss Eric/Calleigh and both were having duplicate discussions, it might be a different story.

Is it completely fair? That's a matter of opinion. Is it changing anytime soon? Probably not. But believe me, a fair amount of time was spent discussing the issue.

Those who enjoy aspects of the relationship with regard to certain episodes/spoilers/interviews, are perfectly free to discuss it in the Episode Threads, Spoiler Lab and Spoiler Picture Thread.

If someone decided to start a thread about an aspect of an episode/storyline, for example "should Eric or Calleigh switch to the night shift due to their involvement?", those who enjoy the relationship and those who dislike the relationship could discuss equally. As always, we allow multiple topics (the executive decision about the like/dislike thread issue notwithstanding) for characters/storylines as long as they aren't exact duplicates. That's not to say we want 10 000 Eric/Calleigh, Natalia, Ryan, Speed, etc. topics suddenly going around at once but I want to clarify that there's quite a bit of freedom here, despite the impression some may have.

I was also thinking of something else in regard to the other CSI shows (which I don't really follow too closely) - I was reading about how Danny and Lindsay from CSI:NY got married and had a baby, and I thought, why is there not the same tension on the NY boards regarding that storyline as there is w/ Eric and Cal? (Maybe there is, but at first glance it doesn't appear to be so). I guess the question is, what makes E/C so much more of a contentious debate than, say Danny and Lindsay, or other CSIs who've gone canon, like Grissom and Sarah? (I know the Grissom/Sarah Canon relationship did have people who voiced their dislike in a big way, but it still doesn't seem like it grew to the extent the E/C debate has grown). Just something I was thinking about ... any comments? Maybe it can help us work things out here in the Miami threads?

With Grissom/Sara, things may have slowed down significantly because Grissom is gone and Sara has sort of been separated from the GSR aspect of CSI now (especially since she left and came back). Eric/Calleigh are very current and up front in the series, an integral part of the show now and will likely continue to build into next season. Would it slow down if one actor left the show indefinitely? I'm leaning toward probably, as time went on. It's just a matter of how much time and if the storyline itself were tied up as a result.

I'm not sure if there's much that can be done on the busines end (the forum itself) that hasn't already been done to reduce the problems -though I'm always open to discussion- and I do believe that aspects of atmosphere maintenance is due in part by the members themselves. That being said, it's not likely that the passion (however you look at it) toward the storyline will be going away anytime soon, lol.

 

[Delquesne]

I was also thinking of something else in regard to the other CSI shows (which I don't really follow too closely) - I was reading about how Danny and Lindsay from CSI:NY got married and had a baby, and I thought, why is there not the same tension on the NY boards regarding that storyline as there is w/ Eric and Cal? (Maybe there is, but at first glance it doesn't appear to be so). I guess the question is, what makes E/C so much more of a contentious debate than, say Danny and Lindsay, or other CSIs who've gone canon, like Grissom and Sarah? (I know the Grissom/Sarah Canon relationship did have people who voiced their dislike in a big way, but it still doesn't seem like it grew to the extent the E/C debate has grown). Just something I was thinking about ... any comments? Maybe it can help us work things out here in the Miami threads?

Good discussion point, miamirocks. As I said in my initial post, I've been a bit puzzled about why there seems to be so much more animosity in the debate between the pro- and anti-E/C shippers than there appears to be between supporters and non-supporters of Danny & Lindsay's relationship on CSINY, for example. I think that GregNickRyanFan's explanation is a very plausible one. :thumbsup: Danny and Lindsay are supporting castmembers on that show, so any romantic relationship between them would naturally seem more secondary, compared to the romance between Eric & Calleigh (who are principal castmembers of CSIM), even if the actual screen time spent on D/L's romance, marriage and baby may be greater than or about the same as the screen time featuring the E/C romance.

I don't routinely watch the other 2 CSI's either, but there seemed to be some chemistry with those pairings. We see none here, just TPTB hellbent on cramming it down our throats.

With all due respect, perhaps if there were fewer comments like this (on both sides) in the discussion about the E/C pairing, there might be less animosity in the debate as a whole. Statements with this type of tone have a tendency to inflame readers on the other side of the issue, especially since there's really no way to prove or disprove them. Things like "chemistry" are in the eye of the beholder ... some people see it, and some don't. Therefore, it might be more constructive to frame these kinds of comments as a personal opinion rather than in more general terms. Or alternatively, such comments could be reserved for the "Dislike" thread (or the E/C thread in Shipper Central, for those E/C fans who want to express their personal support regarding these types of "soft" factors in more unfettered terms).

I'm sure we can all agree that it's much easier to discuss elements like writing, storylines, etc., objectively (and hopefully, politely!), than it is to do so with subjective factors like chemistry, romance, beauty, etc. Venturing into the more subjective stuff (especially if it's not framed as an individual's personal view) increases the risk that a thread/topic will become overly contentious. And, as I'm sure you've all guessed by now, I really, really don't want that to happen to this thread.:lol: Pretty please? :angel:

I think it's ridiculous to expect that every single person is going to have the same views on something. If that were the case, we'd run out of things to say pretty fast, don't you think? Basically the point I'm getting from Delquesne's original post is that there's no reason for there to be any real animosity (we're on the internet, lol) between us just because of shipper differences. There should be no reason why we can't talk about an episode or the characters civilly with one another in an episode/character thread. I honestly don't see why that mutual respect (and again, talking about both sides here) is so hard to find.

Yes, that's exactly the point I was trying to get across, Jessica237. As fellow fans of CSIM, the pro- and anti-E/C shippers probably have much more in common than we think. And I'd be more than willing to hazard a guess that we even agree on some aspects of the E/C relationship, since many Hiphugger-fans (myself included) have some constructive criticism to offer about how TPTB are handling the romance storyline. Just because we support Eric & Calleigh as a couple doesn't mean that we all blindly believe that the way the relationship has been written and how it's playing out, are absolutely perfect. What troubles me is that, the way things stand now, I may never be able to engage in a civil, constructive discussion with non-E/C shippers regarding any aspect of the show (involving E/C or not), because the opposing E/C factions have become so crystallized and the E/C romance debate has become so all-consuming. There are many people here on this forum and on other CSIM fan boards who have wonderful insights about the show, and it's a shame that I and other Hiphugger-fans may never get to fully share in those insights, ideas, etc., just because of where we stand on Eric & Calleigh's romance.

 

[flying mouse]

I was also thinking of something else in regard to the other CSI shows (which I don't really follow too closely) - I was reading about how Danny and Lindsay from CSI:NY got married and had a baby, and I thought, why is there not the same tension on the NY boards regarding that storyline as there is w/ Eric and Cal? (Maybe there is, but at first glance it doesn't appear to be so). I guess the question is, what makes E/C so much more of a contentious debate than, say Danny and Lindsay, or other CSIs who've gone canon, like Grissom and Sarah? (I know the Grissom/Sarah Canon relationship did have people who voiced their dislike in a big way, but it still doesn't seem like it grew to the extent the E/C debate has grown). Just something I was thinking about ... any comments? Maybe it can help us work things out here in the Miami threads?

Good discussion point, miamirocks. As I said in my initial post, I've been a bit puzzled about why there seems to be so much more animosity in the debate between the pro- and anti-E/C shippers than there appears to be between supporters and non-supporters of Danny & Lindsay's relationship on CSINY, for example.(

Sorry to intrude you guys. About DL, NY forum had heated discussion only a short while ago and now I think is some kind of cooling-off period. You can find the threads dedicated to the topics regarding anti-DL in NY forum. And I warn you, there are many. :lol:

 

[inthewind]

Mea culpas if anyone took offense to my 'hellbent' comment, though why such an obvious statement of fact would offend is beyond my comprehension. I never intended to comment in this thread at all, especially since I see no reason for it. However, the original post devolved into a "E/C perspective" by the second paragraph. And the die was cast..................

What fans fail to realize is that this issue is strictly subjective and highly emotional. There is no rationale when passions are involved. I've seen little indication that anti-E/C'ers want to change the supporters minds. They simply disagree and want a forum to discuss among themselves without being flamed. The supporters, on the other hand, seem convinced that every viewer should see things as they see them and will argue their case ad nauseam. You will note that nearly every plea for debate originates with E/C supporters.

Like religion and politics, there can be no winners in this debate.

 

[slower]

My biggest issue (on both sides of the discussion) is the name calling (eg bashers, haters, bullies, or tweeners etc.). This IMO is totally disrespectful to anyone. I honestly can't say I haven't been guilty in some respect or another. We need to respect each others opinions on this.

As far as seperate threads go for discussion: I think it is appropraite to have a place for fans to voice concers or how much they enjoy their favorite couple without having to defend their position. I know on other forums it can be all out war; CBS is a prime example. They have mods; but you wouldn't know it. Anyone can start a topic about the same subject; just worded different. If someone starts a thread that is is opposition of (I'll have to say it) E/C, the supporters will run you out of your own thread. So we are very lucky that we have mods here that take care of the issues immediately.

I can't say that I will ever be a fan of E/C, I see no chemistry (but as stated by Delquesne, it is in the eye of the beholder), it has too much emphasis placed on it and too much drama surrounding it. I really beleive two main characters can have that relationship without it taking over and drowning out the procedural drama and other existing characters. This all goes back to bad writing.

My hope for the next season is that the relationship is a backstory. I know that some beleive that it only takes a few minutes of the show, but if you start looking at how everything around them is set up to lead into another E/C moment, then some shippers might start to understand some of our positions. Examples: Backfire, Time Bomb, All Fall Down.

I mean no disrespect to anyone, and Delquesne it is a positive step in the right direction.:thumbsup:

 

[hiphugger17]

Just my two cents...

I have no problem with there being a dislike thread for those who want to vent because I can just stay away from it and let it be that. My biggest dissapointment is that it all spills out to the other threads in the Miami Forum. People keep saying that if the EC supporters don't want to hear the opinions of those against it then don't enter the dislike thread. But it doens't stay there. And I get that if an episode or spoiler contains EC then it's ok to discuss it but IMO it's gone to the extreme that there's a negative comment on EC, Eric, Calleigh, or even the actors even when there's an on going discussion that has nothing to do with them. Like for example if we are talking in the spoiler thread about a storyline for Ryan and suddenly someone writes a post saying that Eric and Calleigh always have the storylines and how tired they are about that and how they should leave the show or the characters should die, etc...... And then a whole discussion goes on about EC when the spoiler doesn't even talk about them. This is just an example of a generic occurence not something specific I can copy/paste but just to give a general idea of how a lot of topics end up being about EC when they didn't start out being about them. Or the episode threads. When Adam wasn't even on the episodes there could be talk about EC. And I get it all factors on the show in general because they are characters of the show but it's frustrating for the fans who actually like these characters to always be reading negative stuff about them or the romance without even going to the dislike thread. It's like if in 8 of 10 of my posts I would mention something negative about say Ryan. I've never hid the fact that I don't like Ryan but I barely mention him (first because I don't find it interesting to talk about him) but also because I would be constantly pissing people off by always saying negative stuff about him. I know I can say those things, I know I'm entitled to my opinion about him, and that I can express it everytime I want, but if I'm in a forum to discuss a show we all enjoy then I try to be careful about where, when, and why I voice this dislike, because if it is a constant, constant, constant thing then it just ruins the atmosphere.

Just my opinion.

 

[D&Daddict]

Just my two cents...

I have no problem with there being a dislike thread for those who want to vent because I can just stay away from it and let it be that. My biggest dissapointment is that it all spills out to the other threads in the Miami Forum. People keep saying that if the EC supporters don't want to hear the opinions of those against it then don't enter the dislike thread. But it doens't stay there. And I get that if an episode or spoiler contains EC then it's ok to discuss it but IMO it's gone to the extreme that there's a negative comment on EC, Eric, Calleigh, or even the actors even when there's an on going discussion that has nothing to do with them. Like for example if we are talking in the spoiler thread about a storyline for Ryan and suddenly someone writes a post saying that Eric and Calleigh always have the storylines and how tired they are about that and how they should leave the show or the characters should die, etc...... And then a whole discussion goes on about EC when the spoiler doesn't even talk about them. This is just an example of a generic occurence not something specific I can copy/paste but just to give a general idea of how a lot of topics end up being about EC when they didn't start out being about them. Or the episode threads. When Adam wasn't even on the episodes there could be talk about EC. And I get it all factors on the show in general because they are characters of the show but it's frustrating for the fans who actually like these characters to always be reading negative stuff about them or the romance without even going to the dislike thread. It's like if in 8 of 10 of my posts I would mention something negative about say Ryan. I've never hid the fact that I don't like Ryan but I barely mention him (first because I don't find it interesting to talk about him) but also because I would be constantly pissing people off by always saying negative stuff about him. I know I can say those things, I know I'm entitled to my opinion about him, and that I can express it everytime I want, but if I'm in a forum to discuss a show we all enjoy then I try to be careful about where, when, and why I voice this dislike, because if it is a constant, constant, constant thing then it just ruins the atmosphere.

Just my opinion.

Hiphugger17, you just hit the nail on the head. As I stated earlier in this thread, one of my peeves is the negative EC comments spilling over outside the "EC Dislike" thread. Another one is the extent of negativity against the characters (and sometimes against the actors) themselves. Like you said, there are a few characters in the show that I really don't care for ( Ryan, Natalia...etc.). I could use the same logic and say that I`m entitled to my opinion and repeatedly voice negative comments about them. However, I always refrain from doing so. That would only serve to instigate negative discussions and create animosity. If I can`t say something nice about a character, I won`t say anything at all.
Finally, although I am an avid ``Hiphuggers`` fan, I am really not interested in trying to convince anyone to approve, like or accept EC; I`ve said it before: to each his own.

 

[miamirocks]

Thanks for the replies about NY and Vegas - I guess the key is subtlety. I never felt like there was a subtleness about the E/C relationship. IMHO, it was like watching a fanfic, as I said before. I'm sure there was much debate about Grissom/Sarah which has died down now that the characters aren't really w/the show, and that would also happen if Eric or Cal left (although AR being part time last year didn't seem to die down the debate, but I guess that was b/c the ship was escalated.)

In regard to how some E/C fans feel about being constantly bombarded by negative comments about their ship is that non-E/C fans know how they feel. Do you know what it's like not being able to go into a character thread w/out having to talk about how great the E/C ship is? IE: I was in the Calleigh/Emily Procter thread the other day and felt like a foreigner surrounded by all these E/C fans. I keep running into these flippant comments about how "cute and flirty" the E/C scene was in this ep. or that ep., and it's like it's almost another shipper thread. Just check out some of the comments - so I think there's more than one forum where the E/C ship is discussed. Also, I clicked on two of the recently posted video links and, surprise suprise, it turns out they were to interviews w/Emily talking about the E/C ship. I know that's all Emily and Adam seem to talk about lately, which I think is sad, but I think that's also why there's such a split here - we can't even talk about the characters or actors w/out having to refer to the ship. At least that's how I feel.

I can certainly understand how E/C shippers are feeling right now w/some of the comments made by non-shippers, but all I can say (and I mean this in a respectful way, but it's from experience), what goes around comes around. I understand how they feel b/c I felt that way myself two years ago.

I've been gone from the boards for nearly two years, and one of the main reasons was b/c of this whole E/C thing. On several threads, esp. episode threads, some E/C fans would go on and on about how perfect E/C were together, how they had to get together, etc. Meanwhile, non-E/C fans had to just sit there and take it, b/c if we did dare say a negative comment about the ship, we got flamed. That's why I left. We had nowhere to voice our opinion, and I was often met with responses like "They're canon, get over it," or "If you don't like it, stop watching the show." Well, I did just that. This is why I never thought I could get into a discussion, any discussion w/E/C shippers - it was always a closed case. I know those people (I won't name names, I don't even know if I remember them anyway) don't represent all E/C fans, but they were, IMO, disrespectful and downright mean at times. (Twice I had my own ship blasted by E/C fans, even when I wasn't talking about H and Cal as a ship but as friends, and the fact that they didn't have a scene together in, like, 26 episodes - valid point, no? Well, I got flamed. It got to the point where my ship was disrespected, my opinions were disrespected, and I was done.)

Well, why am I back now? Because I saw that it looked like everyone had grown up a little bit and that the show had gotten a bit better, in terms of the team. While I still don't like much of the team interaction, and I blame a lot of that on the E/C romance bent the writers are on, I can see improvements in some of the other storylines and the plots in general in Season 7 (I haven't gotten to Season 8 yet, although I've seen some of the scenes/eps).

I guess you don't really know what it's like until you walk in another persons' shoes, and now E/C fans are doing just that - they're experiencing what we did two years ago (to a much lesser degree, I believe, since it seems to me non-E/C fans are good at keeping their comments in the dislike thread). I mean, there's a reason the mods created the dislike thread - and I think comments like AR's are interesting when we hear even the actors say they had no idea some people didn't like the ship. Maybe it was b/c we were being drowned out for so long. Now we finally have a forum, and maybe that feels threatening to E/C fans, I don't know. All I can say is that I definitely felt disrespected back in Seasons 5/6, but I know it wasn't all E/C fans and I can get over it. Just had to get all that off my chest - no disrespect.

But anyway, why reopen old wounds, right? All I'm saying is that we don't have to flame each other to get our opinions across. While I'm very passionate about my POV regarding this issue, I am trying harder to keep it more civil. (I'm sure you'll let me know how I'm doing ). Believe me, I'd love to discuss other aspects of the show w/all of you - I think there are some points we'd agree on. (I mean, who doesn't think Frank Tripp deserves a love interest? J/K - I just love that guy, he's hilarious!)

We've all been through a lot w/this ship (which we keep reminding ourselves is a fictional romance ), and hopefully there'll be some "cooling down" time during the summer. We'll see what the spoilers bring!

 

[silentdisco]

I think a truce is very possible in this situation. And by truce, I don't mean that everyone has to agree on everything about the relationship. What I mean is that we all should agree to disagree, and to do so respectfully. We all might have to keep a few things in mind when discussing some of the things related to the E/C relationship. Things like:

- Keep the discussion limited to the romance itself, how it affects the show, etc. Not about the people who are discussing it. This is something that should be consistent throughout TalkCSI (all threads in all sections). I've seen issues with this on both sides. E/C shippers, it's not fair or nice to refer to those who dislike the relationship as "haters" or "bashers". It's not nice, and many who dislike the E/C romance have expressed their displeasure with being labeled as such. I've also seen instances in the E/C dislike thread (which, even as an E/C shipper, I do like to frequent, because I like reading what others have to say. And I actually find I agree with plenty of the things posted) where E/C shippers have been characterized as juvenile and immature. I'm not saying that everyone there has done it, because they haven't, or that the dislike thread is full of "E/C supporters are dumb little kids!" because it's not. I'm just saying that it's not fair for anyone to make generalizations about other people. And it's off-topic. We're all here to discuss the show, not the people who post about it. Also, I've seen a couple posts leaning towards actor-bashing in the dislike thread. None of us know any of these actors in real life, and while it's perfectly fine to dislike them, it's not ok to make assumptions about what they do, how they feel, or what they think. It's not respectful to the people who may dislike the E/C relationship, but like or feel indifferent towards the actors; it's not respectful to those who like the E/C relationship, but enjoy reading others' opinions; it's not respectful to the actors. If you want to gossip and speculate, there are other websites to do so at.

- Avoid hijacking threads not specifically designated as "E/C-centric" and making it solely about the relationship. I hate to see an episode or spoiler thread devolve into post after post of "we love E/C!" or "E/C sucks!". I don't see a problem with mentioning liking or disliking something related to E/C that happened in an episode, or something that will happen in a future episode, because it can be relevant to the topic. But out of respect to those who disagree with your position, and to those who don't care about the E/C relationship, it might be best for more thorough analyses of an E/C scene or tidbit to take place at the dislike thread (if it is a negative critique), or at the E/C thread in Shipper Central (if it is a positive one). Also, we all need to remember that neither the dislike thread, nor the SC thread are debate threads. There is a debate thread in SC, which is where civil, honest debates about the E/C relationship should happen. And, with mod approval, I'm sure there could be a specific "debate E/C relationship" thread created in this forum if anyone's interested. That way, we'd have the freedom to debate not just the relationship itself, but how it affects the show, other characters, etc., which might be a little out-of-scope for the SC forum. If I've misinterpreted the guidelines for posting, please, mod, correct me!

It's perfectly fine to like E/C. It's perfectly fine to dislike E/C. Both are valid opinions, and neither is better or worse. They're just different.

And a helpful hint: I like to read over what I've written before I post. I recommend everyone take more advantage of the "preview post" button. Sometimes, I type things before I really think them through. By taking a moment to review what I've written before I post, I can reconsider any knee-jerk reactions and remove anything that someone else might find offensive.

I've seen little indication that anti-E/C'ers want to change the supporters minds. They simply disagree and want a forum to discuss among themselves without being flamed. The supporters, on the other hand, seem convinced that every viewer should see things as they see them and will argue their case ad nauseam.

I don't think it's fair to make generalizations like this. I'm not offended, so don't feel that you have to apologize or anything, but it's important to keep in mind that not all people who support E/C expect everyone else to support it too. I am one of these people, and as you can see by many of the replies to this thread, there are other E/C shippers who have stated they have no problem with the dislike thread existing, which would indicate that they don't expect everyone to support the E/C relationship.

 

[kala79]

Well, why am I back now? Because I saw that it looked like everyone had grown up a little bit and that the show had gotten a bit better, in terms of the team. While I still don't like much of the team interaction, and I blame a lot of that on the E/C romance bent the writers are on, I can see improvements in some of the other storylines and the plots in general in Season 7 (I haven't gotten to Season 8 yet, although I've seen some of the scenes/eps).

Actually, I was watching an interview(or reading, I don't remember) with Emily Procter some time ago and she said that the reason why it's usually 2+2(eg. her and Eric, her and Ryan, Horatio and Eric) is that TPTB decided to save time and money and shoot simultaneusly(sorry, have no idea how to spell that word) with different actors. That's why there is less team interaction, not because of EC. They take 2 actors to shoot one scene on the beach and at the same time 2 other shoots one in the 'lab'. Makes sense. When my month old baby give me more then 10 minutes of free time I'll try to find the link.

 

[Adamsgirl]

I know on other forums it can be all out war; CBS is a prime example. They have mods; but you wouldn't know it. Anyone can start a topic about the same subject; just worded different. If someone starts a thread that is is opposition of (I'll have to say it) E/C, the supporters will run you out of your own thread. So we are very lucky that we have mods here that take care of the issues immediately.

I completely agree with that. I am a member of the CBS forum, joined not too long ago actually and I've resisted posting since the news of Eddie's departure. Eddie gets so much slack over there and the comments are utterly disgusting (being a massive fan of his, I don't like it). So yes, this board has much better moderation but some comments lately have been geared toward the actors involved and that is something I really don't like.

Yes, Adam and Emily may discuss the relationship in interviews but that's because they're asked about it and the media are esculating the situation along with TPTB. I am a fan of E/C but I was also a fan of Natalia/Eric as it was subtle. I also pop in to the dislike thread from time to time because I agree with a lot of the points that are put across and I can totally understand where the "non-shippers" are coming from, but like I said... I don't like the sometimes very negative comments about the actors involved (that's why I avoid the CBS forum now), I really don't want to start avoiding this board due to the same reasons.

There really shouldn't be any hostile reactions to each fanbase. We're all fans of the show (for various reasons). I myself prefer the earlier seasons and the team work aspect. Too much drama is given to E/C and I don't like it as it's repetitive. Togo is a GREAT actor and Eva has definitely come into her own, so I would love these two out in front. If CBS want to make budget cuts, why not alternate characters for a few episodes?

I wasn't the biggest fan of the season finale as it was basically a repeat of the season 7 finale only with Calleigh replacing Eric as the one who "may not survive". I would have prefered the end scene to be with H, Eric and Frank.

Ok, I think I've been going off track a bit. I just feel that we should be respectful of one another and appreciate the fact that people have different opinions on the show. Each "side" has very vaild points.

 

[C.H.E.A.R.]

You know, I find it SO funny when CSI Miami episodes have a story line and then when it's all finished we get 2 minutes of EC in the end and then some people complain that it's taking over the whole show. :guffaw:

But I'll have to say that I can't make a truce unless those (extensive) comments about how people hate EC in other threads is cleared up.

 

[greatfan]

^^
It's never been about the two minutes of E/C,it's so much more and that has been stated over and over again.

 

[Florry86]

Ok I know that the intention of this thread is to "call for a truce" or whatever you call it between E/C and non-E/C and we all should try and respect eachothers.....I know that, I'm the first one who looks for it, but I certainly have to tell you this

You know, I find it SO funny when CSI Miami episodes have a story line and then when it's all finished we get 2 minutes of EC in the end and then some people complain that it's taking over the whole show. :guffaw:

What is hard for you guys to understand?
Is it hard to get why we "hate" (yeah I'm gonna use this word since, appearently, most of us are haters/bashers...so on and so forth) the whole E/C storyline??? Is it really hard for you to understand that what we talk about is the quality of the storylines (for each character) instead of quantity?

Is it really hard to cope with people who keep "complaining" about the storyline when the same people had to cope with people who excited on every single spoiler (which happened to be all about E/C more than once) in regards of E/C all over the forum?

Is it hard for you to understand that no matter what/how/why when there's a news regarding the show E/C can be involved in the argument? For god's sake, take into consideration Eddie Cibrian's case. It doesn't take too much of a brain to understand he came in with the mere scope of replacing Adam Rodriguez at the time he had left the show. Also it's quite clear (though, at this point, I have my doubts considering how it's hard for you to understand) that once TPTB left Cibrian at home, Adam Rodriguez' situation comes to our mind!!!! To every action there's a reaction.

You certianly don't have to be sarcastic on this matter 'cause it's pretty clear you don't want any truce. It's because of posts like this some people don't even think about a truce. It's not just a matter of being touchy, it's just a matter of respect which isn't quite clear for some people in here.

You want respect towards the actors who you keep thinking we're bashing? Before wanting that you should also learn something about the concept of "respect" towards the others 'cause this part of the post doesn't sound that respectful to the other posters....but oh well if you call it respect go ahead with your idea

I'm sorry but, to me, quite frankly, this example perfectly explains why we will never be able to come to a truce.

Again, I'm sorry but I had to do this....Now I'm over and please go on with what you were saying.

 

[Jessica237]

But I'll have to say that I can't make a truce unless those (extensive) comments about how people hate EC in other threads is cleared up.

That's not fair unless all of the pro-EC comments are removed from every thread but the shipper thread as well. Because there have been extensive pro-EC comments in spoiler/character/episode threads too and I know that just as some of us EC shippers have felt put off by anti-EC comments in threads, non-fans of EC have been put off by the pro-EC comments. It works both ways and both sides are just as entitled to voice their opinions.

EC is canon. And everybody knows how heavily they've played into the main storylines this season. Therefore, there are going to be comments, both pro and against, in threads other than the shipper thread and the dislike thread. If they relate to the storyline at hand, there is no reason why the EC interaction shouldn't be discussed, positively or negatively. Like it or not, they do affect the storyline and the team dynamic, etc. Now, I'm not going to be the first in line to advocate for more screentime for Natalia (after all, we do all have our dislikes ), but I'll definitely agree that she was way underused this season. And certainly there were EC scenes where the writers could have instead chosen to show something with Natalia, but for whatever reason, they did not. She has been shifted to the background, though in my opinion a lot of that has to do with the addition of new characters as well as the focus on Eric and Calleigh. And it's very frustrating to fans of Natalia who are not fans of EC - I know. I was there in season four and was this close to walking away, because at that point I felt that Calleigh was in the background in favor of Natalia (who I liked even less back then than I do now). My point being, not everyone who watches the show is going to be satisfied with everything that happens on the show. On a forum specifically devoted to the show, why should people not be allowed to voice how they feel about it? How many times did EC shippers voice how they felt about JC? And let's go way back (and I'll just go ahead and include myself in this one) - how many times did EC fans voice their displeasure with EN in season four? How many times did anyone discuss how detrimental they felt Horatio/Marisol was to the storyline as a whole? It's something that's going to happen, no matter what the ship is. And to the best of my knowledge, no one is saying "I hate EC because they're stupid" or "because they suck and my ship is the best!" There are reasons, legitimate, well thought-out reasons, and I'll say it again - I find myself agreeing with some of them because they do make sense.

Some people are just never going to like EC. That's a fact. They don't deserve to be attacked any more than people who do like EC deserved to be attacked. It's a matter of opinion, and if you (general 'you' throughout this paragraph, not directed at anyone in particular) can't respect other people's opinions when it comes to a tv show, then what are you going to do in the real world, where a lack of respect and understanding can actually get you in trouble? If you don't want to hear what someone has to say, then don't read their posts if you know it's going to inflame you. But there's no reason to belittle people on either side just because someone's opinion doesn't mesh with yours.

Disclaimer: I swear I'm not bashing my own ship. :lol: