"In a Dark, Dark House" Discussion *SPOILERS*

Raynn said:

Brass was in on the reverse forensics, but it wasn't at all the same thing. Playing out a fake crime scene in the media, where all the 'higher-ups' know (or would've, if McKeen hadn't screwed up), isn't the same as covering up an actual crime (which is a crime itself). Several times, Brass's clean image has been brought up - in For Warrick, Hollywood Brass - his nickname in Jersey was "Squeaky" or something. It's so out of character for him to do something like this. Even if he does feel guilt over not supporting Warrick, it shouldn't be enough to make him compromise principles he's apparently stuck to for decades. Plus, Warrick was actually innocent - Brass knows what Ray did.

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I realize that they are not the same thing, but I'm also considering progression. In other words, over time, has Brass slowly been working his way down from the higher moral plane at which he started, to where he is now? I don't really have an answer for that, but this would be the kind of thing where a person wouldn't just wake up one morning and decide to take the law into his or her own hands; it would be a progression, one behavior resulting from an experience or set of experiences, which then sets up other experiences, hence other reactions, etc. Again, I don't really know, which is why I asked the question. Yes, I know that there have been instances when Brass clearly took the high road, and was incensed that others did not. But I'm also wondering if there have been clues -- even small ones -- that would point to a deterioration of that stance.

I'm also trying to remember what happened in Jersey. Someone else mentioned it, and I can't remember either.

What everyone else said. What in merry hell was this episode doing as a season finale and who decided to change all the characters morals, values and ethics? Weak.

Next season: The entire team are arrested and convicted for conspiracy after the fact and attempting to pervert the course of justice. It will follow each character's struggle to deal with life in the Big House; Nick escapes by digging a hole with his belt buckle, grows another moustache and begins a new life as a Mexican porn star; Brass makes bizarre sculptures from flex cuffs he's got stashed in his mattress; Greg becomes a nervous stammerer who sits in the corner of his cell writing more and more elaborate and convoluted stories; Sara becomes head honcho in the women's jail and cultivates a string of bitches, and Ray, taunted by the ghost of Haskell, kills another inmate in a fight over a meat pie. Meanwhile Grissom returns to his old role because, basically, there's no staff left on grave shift anymore but he can't face up to the guilt of not recognising that Dr Philip Gerard, his mentor of many years was the serial-killing pop of a serial killer, thick enough to protect his son by telling the police exactly where he was hiding. Hodges and Henry visit their former team mates every week, bringing them doughnuts and tales from the outside while Doc Robbins bakes low-sugar rhubarb and strawberry pies for them.
In the finale, Greg steps from the shower (I live in hope) and says "Wow, what an elaborate dream. I should write that down." Then heads off for his night shift.

Season 12, starting in September-- CSI: Crime Scene Incarceration.

Smokey said:

I don't know how much more cold blooded a murder could get than picking a man up off of his feet and throwing him over a balcony.

Speaking of, I thought this episode was extremely gratuitous with the violence. I know for a fact that if I ever do watch it again (not likely) I'm skipping over those parts. Ick. Way too much for a 9:00 show, I think.

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This is another point that causes me to resent Ray, unfortunately more so after this episode. Tptb have changed the show to suit LF's character, rather than the other way around; ie, fitting him into an already great show based in science. LF is a big guy, and has had some meaty and fairly violent roles in the movies. Tptb are playing on his strengths, but I don't care for it. The show has become more about the physical, and less about the cerebral. I don't think it would be realistic to all of a sudden have Ray revert back to a know-it-all doctor/CSI. He's crossed the line, IMO, as have the writers. I fear there is no realistic way to fix this. In other words, I think this permanently changes the show.

Ok, SpasmThatCat, you made me lol!

Last night's episode did have some gross moments. I miss the science part of the show - to me that is what made CSI so enjoyable to watch. Yes, there may have been some violence, but not as bloody as last night.

MacsGirlMel said:

Do we know for sure that Ray showed up intending to kill Haskell?

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I was thinking, didn't Ray go to the farm after learning the Thorpe relationship, maybe to confront the old farmer, but not knowing Haskell would be there?

Ray had been sent home from L.A., but the rest of the team were still there, as was ostensibly, Haskell. He took off for the farm once he found those yearbooks, and did call for backup when he found the old man dying. He heard his name called by Gloria and that's what led him upstairs to the trap set by Nate. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, it's been a week since I watched FotB. :lol:

Smokey said:

I don't know how much more cold blooded a murder could get than picking a man up off of his feet and throwing him over a balcony.

Speaking of, I thought this episode was extremely gratuitous with the violence. I know for a fact that if I ever do watch it again (not likely) I'm skipping over those parts. Ick. Way too much for a 9:00 show, I think.

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I think that's partly why I was so late to the CSI party. I had always heard how graphic it could be, and I used to be a wimp when it came to gore, so I never tuned in. I sort of weaned myself into it, starting with NY a couple of years ago, and now my hubby asks me why I can't watch gory war/horror movies, but I can watch this stuff. :lol:

I have to say I'm really enjoying the current version of Ecklie. He's gradually become less of a jerk, and I really liked the scenes he's shared with Nick recently in Unleashed and last night. It was great to see him processing the scene and getting dirty!

ladybronco said:

MacsGirlMel said:

Do we know for sure that Ray showed up intending to kill Haskell?

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I was thinking, didn't Ray go to the farm after learning the Thorpe relationship, maybe to confront the old farmer, but not knowing Haskell would be there?

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That's true. I really don't think he went there intending to kill anyone (whether or not he knew Haskell was there). It was when he cut the cuffs, after having Haskell subdued, that it became criminal.

ladybronco said:

I have to say I'm really enjoying the current version of Ecklie. He's gradually become less of a jerk, and I really liked the scenes he's shared with Nick recently in Unleashed and last night. It was great to see him processing the scene and getting dirty!

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I agree! I like Ecklie a lot now; he's been getting nicer and nicer since the end of season 5. He's still got a just enough of the old attitude, and definitely the political mindedness that he always had, but without the vindictiveness. Maybe because he's overseeing the whole lab now, not just the "other" shift.

K-Bug said:

Orrrrrrr.....Grissom wakes up from a dream to find out the last 4 seasons haven't happened. Warrick is still alive, no Raskell, everyone is a happy family. :lol: I kill me.

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I could so totally accept this in this case. :lol: Forget Ray ever was on the show.

Dizzney said:

K-Bug said:

Orrrrrrr.....Grissom wakes up from a dream to find out the last 4 seasons haven't happened. Warrick is still alive, no Raskell, everyone is a happy family. :lol: I kill me.

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I could so totally accept this in this case. :lol: Forget Ray ever was on the show.

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And by the way things have been written in the past couple of seasons, I wouldn't be surprised or wouldn't put it past them...:lol:

Another WTF finale. CSI went through all that jump-the-shark just for Ray? WTF? What happened to CSIs motto that evidence should do all the talking? Geez, I hope Wlliam Petersen is happy with this show right now. This is sad.

Suddenly, Greg and Brass became fans of Ray? I understood Doc Robbins but not them.

And the cliffhanger? Hello, as if Ray will say muder. Or what, the whole CSI team will lose their licenses and go to jail? So much for the hype.

What happened to this show? Nothing against LF. I think he did great in the episode. It's nice that he watched all CSI episodes to know more about the show and that he really wanted to stay on the show. But as a fan this finale is unacceptable.

1/10

Geeno said:

Another WTF finale. CSI went through all that jump-the-shark just for Ray? WTF? What happened to CSIs motto that evidence should do all the talking? Geez, I hope Wlliam Petersen is happy with this show right now. This is sad.

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Well, I'm not sure how much control Petersen really has over the show at this point. But that being said. . . .

I do agree with you that what is it about Ray that would make these characters change their normal modes of behavior so quickly? In my mind, not much. That's the fundamental point on which so much rests, and is why this finale is beyond the pale, IMO. The powers that be really dropped the ball on this one.

I thought it was better than what I anticipated. LF did an excellent job. Though I without a doubt agree the morales and ethics of this show has diminished. We knew it'd be all about Ray but having Brass and the team "drag" themselves down with him is crazy. And instead of putting this to rest it's dragging out again! It's either self defense or murder which will take the whole team down :/

I did like..Cath's respect to Gloria and her mother. Understandably but the mother was in her face and she kept composure and acted with class. The one thing that had me thinking was how Nick got stern when going to search the house & Sara fighting tears in the closet. Considering they battled crazy psycho paths I'm sure they found this very emotional. Great acting on their part.

I did just order my shirt with the discount sooo I still have hope for next season LOL

Like I said before (and others have stated as well), this whole show has been changed to reflect Langston's personality.

The plots have become less about the victims and the cases and more about violence. The gel of the team is not the same with Langston in charge.

And just like with Without A Trace towards it end,they had it where the other team members betrayed their characters whne one of their own clearly broke the law.

How can we take them seriously next year?

I just finished watching this episode and I hated it. For every reason that everyone else has mentioned, I hated it.

Now, I like Ray Langston's character, so I'm not an anti-Ray guy. I enjoyed this last few seasons of CSI a lot, but these latest few episodes, especially the Haskell ones, have turned my off favourite show CSI.

Sara, the only one who knew, who knew that the scene wasn't right. Nick I can understand only because he's so loyal to his team mates it would take a flashing sign saying "killer!" to budge him.

Awful end of a series, awful.

Don't get me wrong it was well written and so on, but enough with LF already.

And they want to stop CSI:NY for this show...? Meh,, :shifty:

Poirot said:

I remember when the press release of the episode was posted "where a serial killer was born" I was imagining something out of Silent Hill :rommie:. Haskell using his satanic powers to impregnate Gloria with a clone :devil:

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:guffaw: And then she can barf up God? Y'know... if they actually DID that I'd so totally be into this storyline all of a sudden... ::snorts:: I love Silent Hill... so mixing it with CSI... oh that would be fun.

Maybe now that Haskell is dead, they can get Pyramid Head to be their next serial killer :lol:

01) Several folks have mentioned Brass and his past. He turned in his fellow officers who were taking bribes and were corrupt. The worst for him was his own partner was having an affair with his wife and was actually Ellie's father.

02) I kept thinking right up till they showed the scene's with Ray and Haskell that Gloria was the one who killed Haskell. Especially when he went over the railing. I could totally see her running at him and shoving him through the railing. The fact that she was catatonic only made me surer that she was the one who killed him. I could see Ray taking the blame for his death so she would not have to live with the memory of taking a human life.

03) Now the only thing that's going to bother me this summer is the horrible thought that Gloria may be pregant with Ray's baby and then we will still have Haskell all next season. Enough is enough.

04) I'm in complete agreement with everything you all have said here. No one with the possible exception of Nick actually seemed to be in character at all and I am not an 'LF' fan. Fishburne is a brilliant actor but he is so wrong for this show I have not been able to watch with much interest since he joined the cast. I was so hoping to see a lab run by Cath with Nick her 2nd in command and Greg moving up into Nick's former spot.

Oh well, at least CSI NY was great as was 'The Good Wife'. So this week hasn't been a complete loss.