"In a Dark, Dark House" Discussion *SPOILERS*
- Thread starter Smokey
- Start date
I think the problem for me is that I do not actually care whether or not Ray threw Haskell off the balcony or not, nor do I understand what makes TPTB think I do!I just wanted them to put this storyline to rest, and hopefully, Ray to rest as well, but they've done precisely the one thing that I hoped this season had taught them not to do, drag this Raskell stuff out EVEN LONGER, I feel ashamed to have given so much of myself to a show that not only destroys everything the fans have ever loved about it, the characters, the science, the realism, the storylines, the forensics... but that they are sticking with the bad mistakes they have made, and are making it worse... I am genuinely in disbelief that this show sticks by its decision to stoop so low it's continually embarassing.
Does anyone think that any of the team can come out of this with their character intact? I don|t see how the writers can save this mess and come up with an acceptable scenario. Even if Ray is cleared by IA and there are no repercussions it still would leave every one in the team with the knowledge that their teammates are no longer completely trustworthy. How do you move on from that without losing a little respect for oneself as well as the others. I wonder if TPTB even realize what they have started with this story line. This whole thing just seems so distasteful.
ladyhunter
Head of the Swing Shift
I also think TPTB set it up so each team member has to look inside themselves and ask "what would I do for my team mate?"
As in would they hid evidence like Brass did. Would they leave out evidence on a report or not state every little thing such as Catherine did when she spun the "no cuffs were present, none were used" idea.
That's what I think they are doing. Much in the same way they did in REDRUM with Keppler and the reverse forensics and in For Warrick when Nick went after the Undersheriff.
As in would they hid evidence like Brass did. Would they leave out evidence on a report or not state every little thing such as Catherine did when she spun the "no cuffs were present, none were used" idea.
That's what I think they are doing. Much in the same way they did in REDRUM with Keppler and the reverse forensics and in For Warrick when Nick went after the Undersheriff.
Speedystokesgirl
Judge
Exactly, Catherine is the only one who knows what Brass did. Nick was never involved in the part of the investigation so he didn't cover anything up.
Sara suspected, but as far as we know since it wasn't shown on the epi, she didn't put that Brass was the first responder and only him and Ray were there first.
Greg defended Ray, but he didn't cover anything up either.
And really Catherine had no proof so she had to sign off. Speculation is one thing, it's the evidence that she needed and she didn't have it.
So really Ray and Brass
() are the only ones who did something wrong. You can't blame the team for supporting Ray and trying to prove he did it in self-defense. They always have and always will do that. I don't think, in the end, they would let anyone, even a team member, get away with murder.
Catherine 'knows' what Brass did, but without 'proof' she can't do anything about it.
Think about it, he killed a serial killer, whether self-defense or not, the majority of people wouldn't car, the serial killer is dead and that is all that matters.
Is the fact that Ray killed in cold-blood? No, but most people wouldn't care and as someone said earlier, the jury probably wouldn't convict him.
Just like the killing of Bin Laden. The majority of people don't care if he was armed or not, he's DEAD and he should be. I don't care if he was armed or not. I'm just glad he's dead.
Now everyone calm down, the team didn't do anything, it was really just Brass and Ray. Even if it doesn't make me happy that Brass did it. I understand why he did it, however I don't agree with it.
I don't think Catherine will leave the lab because of this, again without proof she couldn't do anything.
Desertwind
Head of the Day Shift
I dont like to read dark negative comments so I won't I will just post my comments, theories views and opinions of this fantastic finale. Ray, Ray, Ray, hip-hip hooray :bolian: you did good. Finally rid of this gruesome monster who's been stalking and harrassing and taunting, tormenting and the stabbing and the loss of a kidney from this freak, for 2 years, with no good intentions ever. Then the last straw violating the woman he loved in ways that are unbeliveable. Yes he snapped, for good reason. Lets say your mom, sister, daughter, wife girlfriend was treated in this inhumane way how would you react? He also told Heather, that "he'd kill him". What was so heart warming is how the whole team all of them backed him up 100% always have and always will. They are all supportive of one another. Actually in retrospect, it was self-defense and murder. This great writers, only could come up with this double edged sword. and big congrats. to Jeffery Hunt who directed this great episode. My summary, lengthy but hey it was the finale:thumbsup:
The opening scene with nutty Nate, "Welcome home Ray, glad you could make the family reunion":evil: He's so sick and twisted LF as Ray, so magnetic his expressions those exotic eyes. Great acting throughout. Bill Irwin also great acting. so creepy. Ray overtook him and beat him to a pulp, which he deserved. all the while with nate encouraging him so mental:scream: Ray did put on the twist ties, but he still sneaked up behind him & tells Ray what he did to Gloria poor gal, she was so traumatized and Tracee Ross, also good acting.
The team bursts in, [how did they know where Ray was?] Brass finds Haskell on the floor dead and Thorpe too. Cope barage the house, Ray to Gloria "It's over, and I'm going to get you to the hospital"
Brass to Ray "Ray you don't say anthing to anyone" Greg and Sara stunned. So his real name was Warner Thorpe. Sara, "came over the bannister, landed here" Greg "They duked it out and Ray won" Brass: "IA is going to be all over this, and we need to give Ray all the help we can" Sara:: "Ray was lured here"
Ray wih Gloria keeps telling her "she'll be just fine" Cath at the hospital "Ray, thank god your all right" Nck wants to hug him but he's evidence. All so supportive of him as he'd be towards them. Cath:: "Il process Gloria Nick will take your clothes" Nick:: "You saved her life Ray, that's all that matters" right on Nick:thumbsup:
Ecklie w/ Shultz from IA, he thinks it's cut and dry, IA doesn't~
Sara and Greg processing crime scene lots of force, Super Dave going over body. On Thorpe he took a beating before he was shot. so much blood splatter.
Cath with Gloria so sweet and gentle Cath has kicke a.. this season, I wished she wasn't leaving Ray has so much respect for her, and her for him a mutual admiration society. She seems to have been more outstanding since he came on CSI.
Cath to Gloria "You survived, he's dead, and your not"
Greg and Sara with the icky wallaper and peeling it back even more with blood splatter. Sara: "Nate Haskell might have died in ths room, but a serial killer was born" [good one Sara]:thumbsup:
Nick "some blood was not human and he did say his first kill was a cat"
Greg going over the walls EWWW, Nick: "what the hell went on in this house"? Greg goes over time line and Nick: "The more bodies we find around here, the better for Ray" and they do find more bodies plus animals, more sickening than any one thought. Nick: "I'm going to rip this hell hole apart" [go Nick].
Gloria's mom Nora confronts Ray guess she didn't like him much He just stood their quiet and said nothing, looked embarrassed. "I'm taking her back to Baltimore, I've already arranged the transportation" WOW:wtf:
Greg color coding blood samples Haskell's is yellow Sara: "Perfect":rommie:Greg defending Ray and Sara disagree a bit, she's more neutral and cautious. "we're looking for the truth, right"?
Ecklie and Nick going over graves Hodges finds a human and Ecklie actually helps out, go figure~
Cath with Schultz on the report "Youll get it whne we're done processing the evidence". he brings up Warrick and how Langston slapped around Tina VIncent, Cath bristles, and goes "I think your getting ahead of the evidence"
Doc tells Cath about Haskell's injuries and his dads. Cath: "Ray killed someone and I need to know it was the right way" then we get to see tis freak on the table:klingon:
Ray goes to Cath and wants to see Gloria's report, she kinda of doesn't want him to but he has too. He reads it and puts his face down and cries, such stellar acting,, his expressions, I felt his pain
More graves, as a kid he killed a Nathan Haskell a traveling salesman for Supra Lux and his own mother was beaten to death and the animals were suffocated or beaten to death, I got nauseous on this part, and thought I was going to hurl Ray:; "And Nate Haskell is unleashed on the world"
Cath and Sara she goes "Ray was the dominate one" ['he is a big burly guy']
Cath goes into Gloria's room the mom is snippy at first but Cath is so sweet and gentle she tells her why the marriage ended, that he didn't want a child because of his DNA. and goes "that man has always scared me" [another mystery solved] Sara snoops through Rays kit and Greg goes "What are you doing" she says "we've all had our own dark moments. where we had to fight our way out I just need to know what I'm dealing wieh, and then I'll deal with it"
Brass with Cath and wondering about the flex-cuffs "you were the fist responder" Brass: "is that a question, I look out for my team, how about you" with Schultz hovering around. Now on Brass doing what he did, he's got some shady, seedy things from his past. he's not Mr. Clean. his daughter Ellie walked away from him, he had an affair with a married woman in "Hog Heaven" and was on "The List" and who knows how many other things we don't know about? He does not have a clean slate. I'm not putting him down as I adore him, but he's got his reasons. he's not perfect who is?
Cath hands him the report and concludes that "Ray acted in self defense"
Ray tries to see Gloria again and mom says "If you care about her, don't go in there" He just wants to make amends and atone for his part in her meeting Haskell. She goes "I hope you find peace Ray"~
Shows the house of horrors again and Brass shows up "what are you doing here"? The banter and he in his mind goes through the whole scene again, Ray was violent and scary The stupendous acting astonishing:wtf: and at that time he goes "I know where you want to take me, but I'm already there"
Brass: "we're the only two people in the world who really know what happened & this stays between you and me, iI will kick this up to murder one and you'll be tried and it won't just be you they'll be crucifying"
Ray listens and finds Gloria scratched in chalk a music piece she'd played for him on their first date "The Swan" it saved my life. Ray goes to see dead Nate ewww, ENOUGH ALREADY:klingon: Doc on reflection he gives him words of comfort and he talked about his dad being "on the other side of the wall" Ray wanted to make things good as a child he even scribbled on hits desk "Be good", Ray be good" Doc: "You are good", such team support:bolian:
Schultz wih Ray and the whole team waiting outside. Ray goes "The fact is I killed a man" he goes back "was it self defense or murder"? And the freeze frame`
Watching this twice, my question is what good on any planet would it do to put him im prison, with all the damage and destruction Haskell had done?
I will just post my comments, theories views and opinions of this fantastic finale. Ray, Ray, Ray, hip-hip hooray :bolian: you did good. Finally rid of this gruesome monster who's been stalking and harrassing and taunting, tormenting and the stabbing and the loss of a kidney from this freak, for 2 years, with no good intentions ever. Then the last straw violating the woman he loved in ways that are unbeliveable. Yes he snapped, for good reason. Lets say your mom, sister, daughter, wife girlfriend was treated in this inhumane way how would you react? He also told Heather, that "he'd kill him". What was so heart warming is how the whole team all of them backed him up 100% always have and always will. They are all supportive of one another. Actually in retrospect, it was self-defense and murder. This great writers, only could come up with this double edged sword. and big congrats. to Jeffery Hunt who directed this great episode. My summary, lengthy but hey it was the finale:thumbsup:The opening scene with nutty Nate, "Welcome home Ray, glad you could make the family reunion":evil: He's so sick and twisted LF as Ray, so magnetic his expressions those exotic eyes. Great acting throughout. Bill Irwin also great acting. so creepy. Ray overtook him and beat him to a pulp, which he deserved. all the while with nate encouraging him so mental:scream: Ray did put on the twist ties, but he still sneaked up behind him & tells Ray what he did to Gloria poor gal, she was so traumatized and Tracee Ross, also good acting.
The team bursts in, [how did they know where Ray was?] Brass finds Haskell on the floor dead and Thorpe too. Cope barage the house, Ray to Gloria "It's over, and I'm going to get you to the hospital"
Brass to Ray "Ray you don't say anthing to anyone"
Greg and Sara stunned. So his real name was Warner Thorpe. Sara, "came over the bannister, landed here" Greg "They duked it out and Ray won" Brass: "IA is going to be all over this, and we need to give Ray all the help we can" Sara:: "Ray was lured here"Ray wih Gloria keeps telling her "she'll be just fine" Cath at the hospital "Ray, thank god your all right" Nck wants to hug him but he's evidence. All so supportive of him as he'd be towards them. Cath:: "Il process Gloria Nick will take your clothes" Nick:: "You saved her life Ray, that's all that matters" right on Nick:thumbsup:
Ecklie w/ Shultz from IA, he thinks it's cut and dry, IA doesn't~
Sara and Greg processing crime scene lots of force, Super Dave going over body. On Thorpe he took a beating before he was shot. so much blood splatter.
Cath with Gloria so sweet and gentle Cath has kicke a.. this season, I wished she wasn't leaving
Ray has so much respect for her, and her for him a mutual admiration society. She seems to have been more outstanding since he came on CSI.Cath to Gloria "You survived, he's dead, and your not"
Greg and Sara with the icky wallaper and peeling it back even more with blood splatter. Sara: "Nate Haskell might have died in ths room, but a serial killer was born" [good one Sara]:thumbsup:
Nick "some blood was not human and he did say his first kill was a cat"
Greg going over the walls EWWW, Nick: "what the hell went on in this house"? Greg goes over time line and Nick: "The more bodies we find around here, the better for Ray" and they do find more bodies plus animals, more sickening than any one thought. Nick: "I'm going to rip this hell hole apart" [go Nick].
Gloria's mom Nora confronts Ray guess she didn't like him much
He just stood their quiet and said nothing, looked embarrassed. "I'm taking her back to Baltimore, I've already arranged the transportation" WOW:wtf:Greg color coding blood samples Haskell's is yellow Sara: "Perfect":rommie:Greg defending Ray and Sara disagree a bit, she's more neutral and cautious. "we're looking for the truth, right"?
Ecklie and Nick going over graves Hodges finds a human and Ecklie actually helps out, go figure~
Cath with Schultz on the report "Youll get it whne we're done processing the evidence". he brings up Warrick and how Langston slapped around Tina VIncent, Cath bristles, and goes "I think your getting ahead of the evidence"
Doc tells Cath about Haskell's injuries and his dads. Cath: "Ray killed someone and I need to know it was the right way" then we get to see tis freak on the table:klingon:
Ray goes to Cath and wants to see Gloria's report, she kinda of doesn't want him to but he has too. He reads it and puts his face down and cries, such stellar acting,, his expressions, I felt his pain
More graves, as a kid he killed a Nathan Haskell a traveling salesman for Supra Lux and his own mother was beaten to death and the animals were suffocated or beaten to death, I got nauseous on this part, and thought I was going to hurl
Ray:; "And Nate Haskell is unleashed on the world"Cath and Sara she goes "Ray was the dominate one" ['he is a big burly guy']
Cath goes into Gloria's room the mom is snippy at first but Cath is so sweet and gentle she tells her why the marriage ended, that he didn't want a child because of his DNA. and goes "that man has always scared me" [another mystery solved] Sara snoops through Rays kit and Greg goes "What are you doing" she says "we've all had our own dark moments. where we had to fight our way out I just need to know what I'm dealing wieh, and then I'll deal with it"
Brass with Cath and wondering about the flex-cuffs "you were the fist responder" Brass: "is that a question, I look out for my team, how about you" with Schultz hovering around. Now on Brass doing what he did, he's got some shady, seedy things from his past. he's not Mr. Clean. his daughter Ellie walked away from him, he had an affair with a married woman in "Hog Heaven" and was on "The List" and who knows how many other things we don't know about? He does not have a clean slate. I'm not putting him down as I adore him, but he's got his reasons. he's not perfect who is?
Cath hands him the report and concludes that "Ray acted in self defense"
Ray tries to see Gloria again and mom says "If you care about her, don't go in there" He just wants to make amends and atone for his part in her meeting Haskell. She goes "I hope you find peace Ray"~
Shows the house of horrors again and Brass shows up "what are you doing here"? The banter and he in his mind goes through the whole scene again, Ray was violent and scary
The stupendous acting astonishing:wtf: and at that time he goes "I know where you want to take me, but I'm already there"Brass: "we're the only two people in the world who really know what happened & this stays between you and me, iI will kick this up to murder one and you'll be tried and it won't just be you they'll be crucifying"
Ray listens and finds Gloria scratched in chalk a music piece she'd played for him on their first date "The Swan" it saved my life. Ray goes to see dead Nate ewww, ENOUGH ALREADY:klingon: Doc on reflection he gives him words of comfort and he talked about his dad being "on the other side of the wall" Ray wanted to make things good as a child he even scribbled on hits desk "Be good", Ray be good" Doc: "You are good", such team support:bolian:
Schultz wih Ray and the whole team waiting outside. Ray goes "The fact is I killed a man" he goes back "was it self defense or murder"? And the freeze frame`
Watching this twice, my question is what good on any planet would it do to put him im prison, with all the damage and destruction Haskell had done?
Ladybronco
Pathologist
Exactly, Catherine is the only one who knows what Brass did. Nick was never involved in the part of the investigation so he didn't cover anything up.
Sara suspected, but as far as we know since it wasn't shown on the epi, she didn't put that Brass was the first responder and only him and Ray were there first.
Greg defended Ray, but he didn't cover anything up either.
And really Catherine had no proof so she had to sign off. Speculation is one thing, it's the evidence that she needed and she didn't have it.
So really Ray and Brass
You can't blame the team for supporting Ray and trying to prove he did it in self-defense. They always have and always will do that. I don't think, in the end, they would let anyone, even a team member, get away with murder.
Catherine 'knows' what Brass did, but without 'proof' she can't do anything about it.
Think about it, he killed a serial killer, whether self-defense or not, the majority of people wouldn't car, the serial killer is dead and that is all that matters.
Is the fact that Ray killed in cold-blood? No, but most people wouldn't care and as someone said earlier, the jury probably wouldn't convict him.
Just like the killing of Bin Laden. The majority of people don't care if he was armed or not, he's DEAD and he should be. I don't care if he was armed or not. I'm just glad he's dead.
Now everyone calm down, the team didn't do anything, it was really just Brass and Ray. Even if it doesn't make me happy that Brass did it. I understand why he did it, however I don't agree with it.
I don't think Catherine will leave the lab because of this, again without proof she couldn't do anything.
Very well said Speedy! I feel this is pretty dang accurate to my mind.
Ray called for backup as soon as he arrived and found Farmer Thorpe.
That was the smartest thing he did after getting back to Vegas
Desertwind
Head of the Day Shift
Thanks ladybronco I guess I missed this twice, but it's unreal that someone would compare the real life terrorist bin Laden who killled millions of people, with a TV character who took down a mentally sick, twisted serial killer person. Also Nate had a gun on his first and Ray never killed anyone before this, he was acting in desperation for what Haskell did to his ex. wife, and all the other crap he perpertrated:wtf:
and Ray never killed anyone before this, he was acting in desperation for what Haskell did to his ex. wife, and all the other crap he perpertrated:wtf:
Ladybronco
Pathologist
Didn't Ray kill someone in self defense in the 9th season finale? I haven't seen the full ep, I stopped watching after Nick left for the bug conference in the beginning, and was meaning to go back and watch it at some point.
I don't think Speedy was comparing Bin Ladin and Haskell in the same way you mean, I just think she meant that they were both dead and most people didn't care how it happened, as long as it happened.
Sorry Speedy, if I didn't say that as you meant it, it was just how I read it.
And yes, I'm glad both are dead.
I don't think Speedy was comparing Bin Ladin and Haskell in the same way you mean, I just think she meant that they were both dead and most people didn't care how it happened, as long as it happened.
Sorry Speedy, if I didn't say that as you meant it, it was just how I read it.
And yes, I'm glad both are dead.
Desertwind
Head of the Day Shift
Didn't Ray kill someone in self defense in the 9th season finale? I haven't seen the full ep, I stopped watching after Nick left for the bug conference in the beginning, and was meaning to go back and watch it at some point.
I don't think Speedy was comparing Bin Ladin and Haskell in the same way you mean, I just think she meant that they were both dead and most people didn't care how it happened, as long as it happened.
Sorry Speedy, if I didn't say that as you meant it, it was just how I read it.
And yes, I'm glad both are dead.
Yes Ray did, in self defense, the guy was laying in waiting and he was so distraught about it, it upset him terribly. They've all killed before, [correct me if I'm wrong] for one reason or another.
Speedystokesgirl
Judge
Didn't Ray kill someone in self defense in the 9th season finale? I haven't seen the full ep, I stopped watching after Nick left for the bug conference in the beginning, and was meaning to go back and watch it at some point.
I don't think Speedy was comparing Bin Ladin and Haskell in the same way you mean, I just think she meant that they were both dead and most people didn't care how it happened, as long as it happened.
Sorry Speedy, if I didn't say that as you meant it, it was just how I read it.
And yes, I'm glad both are dead.
Yes, Ladybronco, that's exactly how I meant it. Thanks!
Didn't Ray kill someone in self defense in the 9th season finale? I haven't seen the full ep, I stopped watching after Nick left for the bug conference in the beginning, and was meaning to go back and watch it at some point.
I don't think Speedy was comparing Bin Ladin and Haskell in the same way you mean, I just think she meant that they were both dead and most people didn't care how it happened, as long as it happened.
Sorry Speedy, if I didn't say that as you meant it, it was just how I read it.
And yes, I'm glad both are dead.
Yes Ray did, in self defense, the guy was laying in waiting and he was so distraught about it, it upset him terribly. They've all killed before, [correct me if I'm wrong] for one reason or another.
After he had Haskell in cuffs in turned from self-defense into murder. As for the rest of them that have killed someone, it was in protection of another, none have killed in murder.
Desertwind
Head of the Day Shift
I so disagree please watch the finale ladybronco one of the most riveting in CSI history. From the beginning to the end, all electryfing:thumbsup: I will ask this again if you mom, sister, daughter wife, or girlfriend was violated like Gloria was, what would you do, just smile and walk away. Doc, to Ray "You are a good person"