Eric/Calleigh romance - why we dislike it. **spoilers**

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Who is Danny Weston? Was he in the first two seasons because I didn't watch the first two seasons very often. :lol:

And I had to :lol: at "Uncle Dad". :guffaw:

I think Danny Weston is the name of the new computer tech (with the ponytail and the beard). Forgive me if I'm wrong. The last name is definitely something Weston.

And I think Ray Jr should have to call Horatio "Uncle Dad" as payback for being such an obnoxious little brat in the early years. For being so disrespectful to his mother, I want him to have to live by the words to the song "I Am My Own Grandpa". :devil:

But I digress. Something tells me CBS isn't ready for Ozark humor yet. :lol:
 
I'm not following Miami as closely as I used to, but I've personally hoped for Calleigh/Horatio for a while, so the developments have annoyed me a little.

Though I'm not a fan of dating the boss, I always found something very classy about DuCaine. Horatio usually called her "Ma'am" in the early years. I'm beginning to miss that.
 
And how many times have we heard over-dependant & fixated Eric say he wouldn't know what to do if anything happened to her, or that he can't live his life without her?

*chuckle* Sorry, I thought this was amusing. I've gotta ask...

What's he supposed to be feeling/saying?

"Eh, I think I could live without you. Yeah, yeah, I'm pretty sure I could. I love you, sweetheart, I really do... but still, I could get along just fine if you were gone"?

:lol:

I just think (well, I know) there's more than one sentence that a person can say to express one's feelings. My point was not why he said it or how he could have said it differently, it was just the fact that he has said it more than once & I tend to wonder if there's some foreshadowing snuck in there.
I wouldn't expect someone like Eric, who is so caught up in this fantasy of white picket fences, to say anything less. However, it strikes me as odd when it's said more than once, & when "death" always seems to lurk around this couple. I don't really see a point in it.
Before they were together -- ok point taken (although quite pathetic I might add). It was obvious TPTB used this pattern to give birth to this couple...so why now....again?

I personally don't enjoy all this type of drama. E/C has already been overplayed, imo. So another "dangerous" situation to top off all the loads of - Calleigh having a gun to her head, or almost getting hit by a car, or almost getting smothered, or almost dying from smoke inhalation, or almost being killed by kidnappers, or Eric almost dying from a bullet in the brain, or almost getting squished by large pieces of concrete, or ALMOST getting shot in his motel room - is a bit overdone, thank you....& people say Super-H is invincible & annoying? Haaaa *sunnies on* I beg to differ. ;)
 
You're right, MJ; it is a little weird that the same thing has been said more than once. It does seem like some kind of foreshadowing.
 
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*SIGH* My apologies to everyone on this board. Recovering from major surgery. Tylox is a nice thing. Some of the time.
I'm just going to sit back and read until this stuff wears off. :( Don't want to wear out my welcome.
 
I'm with you, Delynn. Although I guess some people would be creeped out because Yelina is Horatio's sister-in-law, I'd have no problem with it now because both are widowed. And yeah, it's just not believable that for all those years they were attracted to one another, and then it just went PFFFFFFFT! like that.

I just love the old Horatio/Yelina dynamic. Those two have the best "eye-sex" I've ever seen. :) But I'm one of those who would be a little creeped out at them having an intimate relationship with the brother-in-law/sister-in-law thing. Probably because I don't have much faith in the writers to pull it off. IMHO, they haven't written one decent romantic relationship on this show - ever!

They've already destroyed Calleigh and Eric. I'd just hate to see them destroy Horatio and Yelina. :(

Though I'm not a fan of dating the boss, I always found something very classy about DuCaine. Horatio usually called her "Ma'am" in the early years. I'm beginning to miss that.

I always thought those two working together was the definition of understated class. I miss it also. But I'm afraid it's gone forever from the appearance of circumstances behind the scenes. It's really too bad. Horatio and Calleigh were quite the team. They were the entire reason I decided to watch CSIM.

Now almost every episode all I get is E/C in some form or another and I lost my patience for it a long time ago. :rolleyes:

Besides, with the changes to Calleigh over the past 3 years, I just don't think she and Horatio would make a good team any longer. Both Calleigh and Eric seem more interested in their personal lives right now.

And to be honest, on the few occasions when they have given us a Horatio/Calleigh scene lately, well IMHO, it was awful. Whatever they had is gone and it's painful to watch them try to interact at this point. I'd rather they stop trying then to be reminded of how bad it's deteriorated. What a tragedy that TPTB allowed this chemistry to die. :(

*SIGH* My apologies to everyone on this board. Recovering from major surgery. Tylox is a nice thing. Some of the time.
I'm just going to sit back and read until this stuff wears off. :( Don't want to wear out my welcome.

Would never happen, Alamance! I enjoy thoroughly reading each and every one of your posts. :)

I wish you a speedy, and as comfortable as possible, recovery.

And keep posting, please!
 
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I wish you a speedy, and as comfortable as possible, recovery.

And keep posting, please!

Thanks DeLynn (somewhat embarrassed). As someone who is big on keeping facts straight, I like to practice what I preach.

I am quickly becoming a fan of the old DuCaine. I loved those two together in "Kill Zone."

Horatio: "What do you get when a six-foot man lies down with a three-foot weapon?"
Calleigh: "Hot flashes. But that's just me."

And as a fanfic writer, I can tell you that the E/C is EVERYWHERE!! :wtf: It wouldn't surprise me if, by this time next year, nobody will remember or care.

LOL about H/Y and "eye sex." :guffaw:

I think when hubby has his new job, whenever that is, I'm going to celebrate by getting Miami S1-S3 DVDs. I wonder whether it's any coincidence that A&E has started showing a lot more of those recently.
 
I am quickly becoming a fan of the old DuCaine. I loved those two together in "Kill Zone."

Horatio: "What do you get when a six-foot man lies down with a three-foot weapon?"
Calleigh: "Hot flashes. But that's just me."

I can't say that I saw romantic chemistry between H and Calleigh, but they did have GREAT chemistry as friends and coworkers those early seasons. I really, REALLY miss their scenes together. It's just not the same. I have no idea who is to blame for it, but I agree that putting Eric and Calleigh together probably didn't help matters. I like E/C, but I would really like it if they could keep that, and have better team interaction, especially between Calleigh and Horatio.
 
I crack up every time I see your avatar, Silentdisco!

The key is balance. There were certainly romances throughout the years. There were hints of H/Y and certainly the H/Y/S love triangle. I think H even had something going with Rebecca Nevins from the State's Attorney's office for a while.

The difference between then and the E/C now is that back then, characters weren't tilted toward their romances. The team was a team. The romances were out there, but they weren't the main story arc. In the past, Calleigh and Eric wouldn't even THINK of breaking rules. Now they've violated the no-fraternization policy. Calleigh read Eric's therapy notes. This sort of thing erodes trust. But yet we're supposed to think it's oh-so-wonderful that they're living together. Never mind that both of them have had a succession of these "loves". I guess the shacking up makes this one more special than all the others. Let's see. Didn't Calleigh go to Antigua with Jake? Kind of expensive for a county employee, isn't it? Didn't that account for anything?

We're supposed to be able to trust police officers. As a JAG wife, I'm well aware that these things happen in RL, but now it seems like with the E/C thing, rules, honor and standards mean nothing. They have to sneak around and not tell anyone, but we're expected to feel sorry for them. Sorry, but love often comes with a price. Also, I got the impression that Eric and Calleigh are getting a "us versus them" attitude toward the rest of the team. While I realize Ryan was never really accepted other than simply Speed's replacement, I get the feeling Eric and Calleigh were ganging up on him in "Wolfe in Sheep's Clothing".

Also, the E/C that we're seeing right now is a combination of many things. This has been taking place since S5, IMHO. CBS now had The Most Watched Show in the World, and they got complacent. I've seen the team itself, the quality and accuracy of the forensic science, etc., etc., etc., fall by the wayside. It became more about flash-bang pyrotechnics, three-inch heels, cleavage, rich folk, and the E/C romance.

Are Eric and Calleigh in love? Fine and dandy. But now it seems like the whole show is revolving around that. And I have to agree with DeLynn about decent relationships. Seems like the only character who had a good, healthy relationship is gone now. That would be Alexx.
 
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The key is balance. There were certainly romances throughout the years. There were hints of H/Y and certainly the H/Y/S love triangle. I think H even had something going with Rebecca Nevins from the State's Attorney's office for a while.

I wish the writers could read this...really. I'm getting tired of others saying "everyone wants this; the majority rules" Really...well being vocal is one thing...produce the numbers of who actually supports this sham and I think there would be more on the outs than some think.

Sadly balance has gone the way on continunity...to the back of the closet to be forgotten about in an old shoebox.

The difference between then and the E/C now is that back then, characters weren't tilted toward their romances. The team was a team. The romances were out there, but they weren't the main story arc. In the past, Calleigh and Eric wouldn't even THINK of breaking rules. Now they've violated the no-fraternization policy. Calleigh read Eric's therapy notes. This sort of thing erodes trust. We're supposed to be able to trust police officers. I'm not saying this doesn't happen in RL, but now it seems like with E/C rules, honor and standards mean nothing. Also, I got the impression that Eric and Calleigh are getting a "us versus them" attitude toward the rest of the team. While I realize Ryan was never really accepted other than simply Speed's replacement, I get the feeling Eric and Calleigh were ganging up on him in "Wolfe in Sheep's Clothing".

Spot on, exactly what I have been saying and thinking. Sometimes putting characters together is better left ot the aire of mystery that is subtlely put in.

I wouldn't want to trust this "team" if I had to deal witht hem in real life...romance complicates enough to begin with and then to tie that into a profession makes numbers of doubts and issues skyrocket. And the "us vs. them" attitude is totally correct, Eric and Calleigh did gang up on Ryan in WISC, they didn't care about why he did it, heck I guess saving someone's life...let alone a child's, doesn't matter to people who have their heads so far up the other one's rump that all they see is sunshine and lollypops. Guess E/C think that the mob can't touch them because they are above the rules and laws...yea and I bet they are the first one targeted come the season finale!

Are Eric and Calleigh in love? Fine and dandy. But now it seems like the whole show is revolving around that. And I have to agree with DeLynn about decent relationships. Seems like the only character who had a good, healthy relationship is gone now. That would be Alexx.

It's true the constant shoving is getting to people who don't pay taht much attention...I've had friends and even my mom comment on how this "romance" is cutting into why they watch the show, for the crimes and the team aspect. There are very few shows that have more than 2 or 3 main characters and the CSI franchise is lucky to have this many. TPTB should be taking a look at what they have to work with, not going with this soap opera mushy stuff that many people do not want to watch. I would rather a great, action packed episode than feeling like I'm watching a fluffy romp about people who are supposed to be solving crimes.
 
I crack up every time I see your avatar, Silentdisco!

The key is balance. There were certainly romances throughout the years. There were hints of H/Y and certainly the H/Y/S love triangle. I think H even had something going with Rebecca Nevins from the State's Attorney's office for a while.

Thanks!

I agree, the key is balance, and I'd like to see the scale tipped back towards Natalia, Frank, and Ryan.

In the past, Calleigh and Eric wouldn't even THINK of breaking rules. Now they've violated the no-fraternization policy.

There was that time back in Season 3 when Calleigh's dad thought he killed a man while driving drunk, and she advised him take another drink so the blood alcohol test would be wrong. And while Ryan was investigating, she went with him. That's kind of shady, even if it isn't outright against the rules. Back in Season 1, Eric showed up late for work because he was "busy" with a girl. Again, not quite against the rules, but still not quite kosher. My point is, they have all made mistakes and bent the rules, even Horatio.

Also, when the no-fraternization policy was first brought up last season, Stetler told Delko that there were "pending changes in department policy." Pending does not equal in effect. Maybe it was made official, or maybe it got tossed out the window, but it was never mentioned after that episode, so we have no way of knowing.

Calleigh read Eric's therapy notes. This sort of thing erodes trust.

I have to agree, that was crossing the line.

But yet we're supposed to think it's oh-so-wonderful that they're living together. Never mind that both of them have had a succession of these "loves". I guess the shacking up makes this one more special than all the others. Let's see. Didn't Calleigh go to Antigua with Jake? Kind of expensive for a county employee, isn't it? Didn't that account for anything?

Maybe it's just me, but I don't think they're living together yet. Yes, Eric was shown waking up in her bed, but they could be spending the night at each other's places sometimes.

Antigua does sound rather expensive- but remember, this is CSI:Miami, where virtually all criminals have an incredible sense of fashion, and the entire department drives Hummers. Calleigh also drives a $35,000 sports car and has a pretty nice wardrobe, too. And her house sure doesn't look cheap.

Also, I got the impression that Eric and Calleigh are getting a "us versus them" attitude toward the rest of the team. While I realize Ryan was never really accepted other than simply Speed's replacement, I get the feeling Eric and Calleigh were ganging up on him in "Wolfe in Sheep's Clothing".

Another one of my opinions, but I think Calleigh was upset in "Wolfe in Sheep's Clothing". She also had a different kind of relationship with Ryan than Eric had with him. I doubt Ryan would want to open up to Calleigh while Eric was standing right there. Not to mention, they were at work and had new, important evidence to process; not exactly the time to sit down and chit chat about feelings. But that's just how I saw it. ;)


And the "us vs. them" attitude is totally correct, Eric and Calleigh did gang up on Ryan in WISC, they didn't care about why he did it, heck I guess saving someone's life...let alone a child's, doesn't matter to people who have their heads so far up the other one's rump that all they see is sunshine and lollypops.

To be fair, Calleigh and Eric had no idea about Billy. Ryan told them nothing. Horatio told them nothing. Their priority was to solve a murder, and they couldn't really afford to take the time to talk it out with Ryan right then. They had a duffel bag of evidence to process, in addition to the shell casing. I doubt that they just didn't care about why Ryan withheld evidence, but they didn't have much to go on, considering all Ryan said was "there were extenuating circumstances". Maybe they figured they wouldn't get a straight answer.
 
And the "us vs. them" attitude is totally correct, Eric and Calleigh did gang up on Ryan in WISC, they didn't care about why he did it, heck I guess saving someone's life...let alone a child's, doesn't matter to people who have their heads so far up the other one's rump that all they see is sunshine and lollypops.

To be fair, Calleigh and Eric had no idea about Billy. Ryan told them nothing. Horatio told them nothing. Their priority was to solve a murder, and they couldn't really afford to take the time to talk it out with Ryan right then. They had a duffel bag of evidence to process, in addition to the shell casing. I doubt that they just didn't care about why Ryan withheld evidence, but they didn't have much to go on, considering all Ryan said was "there were extenuating circumstances". Maybe they figured they wouldn't get a straight answer.

Well Eric and Calleigh sure didn't bother to ask out right. Calleigh only asked if there was something wrong, and yea having the Russian mob after an entire doesn't seem to dawn on anyone that this is a plausible reason as to why Ryan nor H is saying anything.
 
I wish the writers could read this...really. I'm getting tired of others saying "everyone wants this; the majority rules" Really...well being vocal is one thing...produce the numbers of who actually supports this sham and I think there would be more on the outs than some think.

I really wish there were a way to perform an accurate poll. I'd be interested in seeing the results. I truly believe that most of the audience dislikes this contrived E/C storyline and the resulting destruction of the characters.

But that's all I have. A firm belief. I have no doubt that the E/C shippers are just as firm in their belief that EVERYONE is in love with the E/C romance.

A definitive poll would be fascinating. Really!

Sadly balance has gone the way on continunity...to the back of the closet to be forgotten about in an old shoebox.

You're right. There isn't a balance. Most episodes are filled with E/C in some capacity - either the 'ship or them working almost every case together. Horatio pops up once in a while and Ryan, Natalia and Frank are almost non-existant. All must take a backseat to E/C.

I don't understand why the writers can't write a story that puts the team together. If there are behind the scene issues that prohibit two characters from appearing together at the same time - Horatio is the head of the team and he needs to be there.

The difference between then and the E/C now is that back then, characters weren't tilted toward their romances. The team was a team. The romances were out there, but they weren't the main story arc. In the past, Calleigh and Eric wouldn't even THINK of breaking rules.

Calleigh certainly was out of line by telling her father to take a drink in "Under the Influence". But that was the power of that scene. It was the exception not the rule. It was dramatic because it was a desperate Calleigh putting her ethics on hold to protect her father. I felt for her and I was rooting for her. Sadly, putting her professionalism and ethics on hold has become common place for Calleigh now. She thinks nothing of it and I've lost all respect for that character.

Eric had a history of immature behavior that always had Speed on his butt. Eric was a player and what he did on his off time ruled. My impression was his job came second. Now his job comes second to the priority of fantasies of his relationship with Calleigh.

Now they've violated the no-fraternization policy. Calleigh read Eric's therapy notes. This sort of thing erodes trust. We're supposed to be able to trust police officers. I'm not saying this doesn't happen in RL, but now it seems like with E/C rules, honor and standards mean nothing.

Well, to be fair here is the text of that scene:

Deep Freeze

After helping Natalia, Stetler sees Eric holding her.

Stetler: Delko
Delko: Stetler. What are you sniffing around about?
Stetler: Horatio’s got me working to supersede a court order. Reclaim your frozen football star’s body.
Delko: Working with us for a change.
Stetler: You are aware of the pending new rules regarding fraternization among officers, aren’t you?
Delko: You mean new as in different after you and Yelina Salas?
Stetler: Things have changed. The county’s caving to the state’s pressure on the issue of sexual harassment litigation.
Delko: That’s interesting.
Stetler: The department is redefining its policies on fraternization of officers. You would be best served sharing that with the others in the lab.
Delko: Listen, Stetler. If you have something to say to CSI Du or Detective Berkley. You’d best be served telling them yourself.
Stetler: Duc and Berkley. I was talking about you and Boa Vista. But, thank you.

Delko calls and leaves a message for Calleigh telling her that he thinks he just put her in a jam.

Stetler did say "pending". Not suprisingly we never heard another thing about the no fraternization policy. Why? Because continuity be damned! This is CSI Miami! Are we really surprised? :(

We don't hear about it again because nothing shall come between E/C. So that pesky little no fraternization policy has gone the way of Kathleen Newberry's son, Suzie and Madison, Ray Jr., etc. Poof! Gone and we are supposed to forget it ever happened. It's all rather insulting. :rolleyes:

It was also a plot device designed to specifically make Jake look like a big jerk when he suggests that he and Calleigh take a step back, while Eric looks like "Prince Charming" when he tells Calleigh HE would have moved to the nightshift for her (doesn't he just say the sweetest things! :rolleyes:). We also got another chance to see how the new Calleigh could care less about Stetler's warning or the possibility that her relationship with Jake could result in a problem. She and Jake carry on anyway! Certainly not the Calleigh who treated us to that display of righteous indignation when she discovered Ryan's indiscretion when he paid her back with the counterfeit $100 bill.

And we've certainly never seen her be judgemental when it comes to Eric. Just compassionate concern and understanding. The closest she came was in "Nailed" when she told him to get it together or he was risking losing respect. That's when she didn't recognize her "close friend" Eric's sister. :rolleyes:

And don't even get me started on Calleigh and Eric reading his therapists records. That was unforgiveable. The most egregious breach of ethics I've seen on the show yet. That was a betrayal of a sacred trust and they both performed that betrayal with hardly a pause to consider the patients they were violating.

I wouldn't want to trust this "team" if I had to deal witht hem in real life...romance complicates enough to begin with and then to tie that into a profession makes numbers of doubts and issues skyrocket. And the "us vs. them" attitude is totally correct, Eric and Calleigh did gang up on Ryan in WISC, they didn't care about why he did it, heck I guess saving someone's life...let alone a child's, doesn't matter to people who have their heads so far up the other one's rump that all they see is sunshine and lollypops. Guess E/C think that the mob can't touch them because they are above the rules and laws...yea and I bet they are the first one targeted come the season finale!

I also feel very strongly the "us vs them" attitude and I agree that Ryan has never really been accepted except by Alexx and Horatio.

While Eric can be decent once in a great while to Ryan, for the most part he's a total jerk to him.

Calleigh has always been perched on her moral high ground and is very quick to judge Ryan. The gambling thing was a problem. But if Calleigh had gone to Horatio as soon as she realized that Ryan was gambling (Death Pool 100), instead of playing the martyr like she is so fond of doing, the whole gambling issue might have been avoided. Ryan offered to step up. Calleigh stomped on him and stopped him angrily declaring that it stops with her. Her taking responsibility didn't help Ryan face the problem and she was no help to Ryan when he was eventually fired as a result of his problem. Only Horatio and Natalia showed any evidence of compassion and a desire to bring Ryan back into the lab.

She pulls the same martyr crap with Eric and taking his proficencies to cover for him. Eric should have retaken his proficencies. He needed to. She took that away from him by playing the martyr and taking the blame for Eric's actions. She didn't have that right and Eric whimped out and let her do it.

If I had been Ryan and Eric would have yelled at me like that to get out, hell would freeze over before I'd tell him anything. Eric and Calleigh may not know what Ryan went through, but they know that Horatio helped him. That should be enough to assume that Ryan had a good reason for what he did. But it wasn't and their holier than thou attitude when questioning Ryan truly did make it look like "them" united against him.

It's true the constant shoving is getting to people who don't pay taht much attention...I've had friends and even my mom comment on how this "romance" is cutting into why they watch the show, for the crimes and the team aspect. There are very few shows that have more than 2 or 3 main characters and the CSI franchise is lucky to have this many. TPTB should be taking a look at what they have to work with, not going with this soap opera mushy stuff that many people do not want to watch. I would rather a great, action packed episode than feeling like I'm watching a fluffy romp about people who are supposed to be solving crimes.

I've said before I'm the last of my family and friends watching. :(
 
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Delynn said:
I have no doubt that the E/C shippers are just as firm in their belief that EVERYONE is in love with the E/C romance.

If I may burst your bubble for a moment......

You can count me as at least one shipper who most certainly does not believe that everyone is in love with my preferred couple.

Delynn said:
Eric looks like "Prince Charming" when he tells Calleigh HE would have moved to the nightshift for her

Unless this is OOC or simply unbelievable for him to say, I don't see why it's seen as a "device". Would he really move to the night shift if it came to that? If so, I concede that it may have been intentionally paired with Jake's behavior to make a comparison between the two, but it's not entirely absurd to think that they could've written him as saying it anyway, regardless of any comparison to Jake.

Delynn said:
Now his job comes second to the priority of fantasies of his relationship with Calleigh.

Erm... what other fantasies has he had that we know about besides the one in Flight Risk? I know, I know, one was too many, I agree, but... we only know of that one, right?

Delynn said:
But if Calleigh had gone to Horatio as soon as she realized that Ryan was gambling (Death Pool 100), instead of playing the martyr like she is so fond of doing, the whole gambling issue might have been avoided. Ryan offered to step up. Calleigh stomped on him and stopped him angrily declaring that it stops with her.

Isn't she his boss? I mean, I know that Horatio is a boss to them both, but... doesn't she have the authority to decree that gambling problems need to stop without taking it to Horatio?
 
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