"Mascara" 200th Ep Discussion *SPOILERS*

Discussion in 'CSI: Crime Scene Investigation' started by Destiny, Mar 14, 2009.

  1. GregNickRyanFan

    GregNickRyanFan Holographic Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    18,941
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm not questioning why it was Ray based. I'm questioning why they felt the 200th episode shouldn't feature more of the people that helped it get there. Ray wasn't in the first 100 episodes, so I just don't see how it's fair that the others got shoved aside in this milestone episode.

    By the way, it made no logical sense that Ray took the case. It was a conflict of interest for him given that he was so close to this student... it was very clear that he thought of her as a daughter or at the very least a niece. The flashbacks were evident of that and I actually kind of liked the flashbacks. But, the episode just shouldn't have been the 200th. It should have just been a regular episode. How is it fair that Ray was allowed to work a scene where the vic was someone he was so close to when Cath couldn't work cases where her estranged father was involved? Sounds like a double standard to me.

    I'm not asking that he be shoved into the background. I'm only asking that the original stars aren't shoved in the background because they weren't hired to be shoved in the background either, especially Marg.

    That's not the opposition here. The opposition is that it wasn't right for the 200th episode to be solely based on ANY one character. I'd feel the same way if the 200th episode had been solely based on Catherine if it meant that the rest of the characters were shoved in the background.

    100% agree with this.

    Couldn't have said it better myself! :)

    It would be wrong if Grissom was shoved aside in a milestone episode just like it's wrong that Nick, Greg and Cath were shoved aside in this milestone episode. Insert Grissom and Sara in their places. How would you feel if it happened to them? How would you feel if Sara was still on the show and her only scene was reduced doing Archie's job and being told what to do by a character who was "lower on the totem pole" than she was? Or if Grissom only had three scenes and if in one of those scenes he was with Ray and Brass only to disappear and not be seen again in the episode? Wouldn't that upset you? Or if Grissom who was still supervisor got the piddly little scenes that Cath got in this milestone episode while the majority of the episode was focused almost solely on the newest member of the team. And I'm not saying in terms of if this was a regular non-milestone episode. I'm not meaning episodes in general. I just mean a big, milestone episodes.

    I'm sorry, but none of this is okay. Fans shouldn't just be like "whatever" if a milestone episode shoves aside the original members of the team who have been there since the very first episode of the show. Again, I wouldn't have minded it being Ray-centered as much if they'd just written the other characters (the original characters) more scenes too rather than having Ray on his own in almost every scene.

    In Nick's episode (Turn, Turn, Turn) at least he was with various characters for the majority of the episode. He had very few scenes alone and when he did, it was only for seconds at a time. First scene with Brass, Ray and Superdave. Later with Cath, later with Greg, I think Riley was in there some too and Doc Robbins. And in the final scene it was him with Ray. It wasn't him alone. Well, it was for the last few seconds of the show. But, at least Ray had been in the last scene. It was more balanced between the characters in terms of screen time even if it was a Nick-based episode. Why couldn't they have done the same kind of thing with this week's episode? I don't think that's too much to ask especially given the fact that it was a milestone episode.

    Yes, as a stand alone episode "Mascara" might have been okay (no one is arguing with that), but it just wasn't the right choice for the 200th. I'm not opposed to a Ray-centered episode, I am only opposed to the milestone episode being Ray-centered while the original members of the team who've been there since the beginning of the show's run are shoved to the side with tiny little scenes. This is an ENSEMBLE show and EVERY milestone episode should feature the whole cast more evenly rather than only seeing the others sporadically.

    As disappointing as the episode was, at least it gives us something to talk about and debate. :lol: :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2009
  2. Smokey

    Smokey Nickaholic Moderator

    Joined:
    May 11, 2007
    Messages:
    9,836
    Likes Received:
    0
    I maintain, again, that aside from the "who should be showcased in a milestone episode" debate, it was just plain boring and lousy. Bad writing, directing, music, everything...and those wrestling scenes just thrown in everywhere. Bleah.
     
  3. leo99va

    leo99va Victim

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2007
    Messages:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    This was the worst CSI episode EVER it was a piece of TRASH I could not believe what I was watching I was stund how awful it was. Way too much RAY it is like they are turning it in the Ray Langston Show. Why the heck was the 200 episode based around Ray? Have the writers forgotten that CSI is a cast esemble and cast all play off one another. After watching this piece of crap it made me missing Grissom, Sara and Warrick even more!
     
  4. nukejane12

    nukejane12 Dead on Arrival

    Joined:
    Jun 4, 2006
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey! I haven't been here in a long time but since I recently started watching the show again, I thought I'd check in. I have to comment that many of you are voicing the same opinion that I feel - too much of Ray! Other than one episode, he has been the focus and I'd like to see more of the other characters. I also think the 'new' writers are already repeating themselves - Nick knew the Girl, Ray knew the Girl, UFC, Mexican wrestling, etc. and dangit I miss Warrick!
     
  5. Ginnna

    Ginnna Lab Technician

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2005
    Messages:
    726
    Likes Received:
    0
    I feel like the writers, producers, basically all TPTB forgot that this was the 200th episode and didn't have any other episode prepared in time to air it yesterday. That seems like the only explanation for why they'd air such an inappropriate episode as the 200th.
     
  6. myfuturecsi

    myfuturecsi Corpse

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    6,756
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've got people e-mailing me asking me, "What the hell was that last night!" So even people not on this board found this to be the worst episode ever.:lol:

    It's nice to see everyone agree on something (other than one person)! We're unified is saying how much this episode of CSI tanked. Isn't that nice!:guffaw:
     
  7. Kimbo08

    Kimbo08 CSI Level One

    Joined:
    May 6, 2007
    Messages:
    985
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree Smokey. Regardless of who was at the forefront (even though that really erks me), the episode just wasn't good. Whether it was the 200th episode or not, the episode, in my opinion, sucked. Plain and simple. Sucked.

    Now add the fact that it was the 200th episode and add the fact that Ray, a newcomer who has been in 12 episodes, and you get angry fans.

    I was and still am an advocate for LF/Ray. I like both, but not when the integrity of the show and the respect for the remaining originals are at stake. Because to me, not showcasing MH, GE, ES, and PG talent in a mileston 200 episode is just so disrespectful to me. They have spent almost a decade of their life on that set, 9 months out of the year, and they get a combined total of 10 maybe 15 minutes out of the entire episode. Ridiculous, and TPTB should be ashamed of the disregard they showed the rest of the cast, and at the horrible writing that last nights episode portrayed.

    And Gianna, I agree. That truly is the only excuse and it'a a poor one at that, because I imagine something like a 200 episode mark would not go by undetected.
     
  8. Nicksfriend

    Nicksfriend Police Officer

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2008
    Messages:
    443
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well,one could say that MH,GE, and ES just got snubbed by their own writers,producers and the step in director. It was a slap in the face,a real "we just we don't care about you,we have a superstar now.." to the very people who helped to bring the show to this very moment. "The heck with you,we have LF and we really don't need you anymore!"

    "I've been thinking about this episode all day,it was really bad and many have offered their opinions on why it failed. I believe it failed because the heart of the show, the very thing that has given life to this very unique show was taken away. It left out the team. the team is the life source of this show and without it,all you get is what we saw last night= a lifeless protrayal of a routine cop show."
     
  9. GregNickRyanFan

    GregNickRyanFan Holographic Moderator Moderator

    Joined:
    May 16, 2008
    Messages:
    18,941
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is funny how most of us usually have differing opinions about certain aspects of an episode whereas with this one episode the majority of us feel the exact same way about the whole entire episode. :lol: That's unusual, but it just goes to show how bad this episode really was. :lol:


    Yeah, it would have sucked anyway, but I wouldn't have been as upset about it if it hadn't been the milestone episode. If it had just been a normal episode, I would have been like "well, that was boring, oh well". But this being the 200th, it was just a poor excuse for a milestone episode in my honest opinion. And it wouldn't have mattered if it had been one of Lindsey's classmates that was killed instead of one of Ray's students and it had been Cath in the lead. If everything else had gone the same way, it still would have sucked. :lol:

    I totally and completely agree with you, Kimbo.
     
  10. happyharper13

    happyharper13 Pathologist

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2008
    Messages:
    1,074
    Likes Received:
    0
    Based on that logic, they should have had Natalie investigating the miniature killer. And Richard Nixon would have been in charge of investigating Watergate...

    It just doesn't make sense. Not only does it throw the idea of not having a conflict of interest out the window, but goes as far as to support CSIs (and any other investigators, by that logic) having conflicts of interest.

    Knowing Sylvia as well as Ray did qualifies him to be a suspect, NOT the person investigating her murder. Someone in his position -- with that sort of connection to the vic -- could easily have something to hide, and would have ample opportunity to do so were they investigating the case. Presuming someone in his position, wouldn't have something to hide, he would still definitely enter the case with preconceived notions.

    So I must reiterate, Ray investigating her death makes no sense whatsoever. I really, really do try to give episodes the benefit of the doubt, but seriously -- WTF?!

    Absolutely. Were there a clapping emoticon, I would be using it. Or if I know how to get those bigger smiley face image things Desertwind always has.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2009
  11. Destiny

    Destiny Still Sanity Challenged! Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2004
    Messages:
    16,043
    Likes Received:
    1
    Releasing from tack.
     
  12. PrincessJ88

    PrincessJ88 Coroner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    0
  13. myfuturecsi

    myfuturecsi Corpse

    Joined:
    May 27, 2005
    Messages:
    6,756
    Likes Received:
    0
  14. PrincessJ88

    PrincessJ88 Coroner

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2008
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    0
    It could have been just a cold. Or he just woke up. :)
     
  15. jafox

    jafox CSI Level Two

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Messages:
    1,725
    Likes Received:
    22
    I had lower expectations for this episode, so I'm not as disappointed as some. I don't like wrestling, and I didn't like Cockroaches (except for the beginning car chase scene), so the only reason to watch for me was the milestone 200th. The story telling definitely took backseat to the directing and the visuals. As others have mentioned, I would have liked to have seen more interactions with the others, but I did like the girl who was killed and her flashback scenes with Ray. I have to admit I fell asleep in the middle and had to rewatch it on my dvr. Not my least favorite but definitely near the bottom.
    I've gotten use to the conflict of interest angle, so that didn't bother me so much. The story plot holes are more annoying to me.
    I didn't like the new credits; I hope that was a one time thing only.
    I noticed for the first time that Naran Shankar was added to the main producers' credit with Mendelsohn, Zucker, and Donohue. Congrats to him!
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2009

Share This Page