World Politics

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous' started by Jacquie, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    A lot of people are afraid of what this bill will do to our health care system for various reasons. They're also afraid that this bill isn't representative of a Democratic society. Health care is a very personal subject and that means people are passionate about it.

    I agree with freedom of speech and think people have every right to criticize/debate about the bill and/or our Government. What bothers me is the violent reactions and the hate filled, oppressive and sometimes even racist/bigoted speech that has been associated with this issue. People have a right to be as hateful as they want in their speech, but I hope the majority of people won't condone that type of behavior.
     
  2. Ducky

    Ducky Master of the Moos Moderator

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    I think EU is very messy soup :p

    I think it was going way too fast in last decade and now we have soooo different countries inside EU that.. I don't know.

    As for Greece. I think it's unfair that some countries can get thru economic crap without even trying to make it better, I know Italy has had problems, Germany has had problems. Greece.. well now that's very sophisticated to false the results and numbers. Even when Greece joined EU, they weren't in EU shape when it comes to economics. Well nowadays, yes, EU country but how can someone slip so badly and then we, who try to keep our economics in balance have to pay for crappy government of other countries.

    But the whole situation is threat to euro and it had to stabilisize these kind of things to happen.

    There was news about law, that would tighten the law of getting divorce. In the Nordic countries one can have divorce without the other half's acceptance and the rest of the EU countries are against that kind of (so people wouldn't move to other country to get divorce more easily) and now the Nordic countries are staying out of it.

    And we have hot topic here, immigration and how to handle it. We've been pretty tight and now some want open the borders better and then there's argue that we should see the problems immigration has caused to Sweden, France etc.

    and third one... Estonia has it's economics in point that they could go to euro. I am quite surprised since I visited there last year and our guide said that country is pretty much bankrupt. But hey, they have something good in their sight.
     
  3. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    i'm guessing it's still something to do with the (outdated and frankly wrong) idea that gay people place a drain on healthcare by y'know, getting aids and stuff:rolleyes: the fact that as many straight people get it as gay people, and that many hiv infections come from substandard medical practice (not to mention the massive influence of the catholic church) is conveniently ignored - i suspect that the anti-gay lobbyists like to cling to the outdated information because it will back their campaigns on two fronts (gay rights and healthcare).

    as far as i'm concerned gay people should be entitled to all the same civil rights as straight people (or any people inbetween/outside those parameters) - being gay these days just isn't the health risk it used to be seen as, and it's about time lobbyists stopped using outdated propaganda to try to make out that it is.

    this, basically :)

    as for the EU, i'm not sure - part of me is hoping it won't go as federal as the US, but i certainly don't want out of it either - i think so much of the uk economy relies on europe that it would be national suicide to leave.

    as for greece, i'm still not entirely sure what happened there - but the EU probably should've been a bit more conscientious in letting greece join if they knew how bad their economy was - letting them default really doesn't help anyone, and it sounds like a couple of other countries aren't far behind. on the other hand, greece can probably be helped - there's a huge amount of tourism there from the rest of europe that seems to keep growing year on year and if they can harness that they might be able to drag themselves out of the hole.

    hmm i really don't know much about EU politics tho - i did it at high school (the maastricht treaty, way to turn off a 17 year old) and avoided it like the plague at uni!
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2010
  4. Desertwind

    Desertwind Head of the Day Shift

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  5. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    ^ i don't think they are now, the abortion clauses were removed, and the gay issue would never have officially been on the agenda anyway, but i would be willing to place money on it having been an issue outside the public sphere.
     
  6. Ducky

    Ducky Master of the Moos Moderator

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    Oh no, it never should become United States of Europe. Never ever.

    Well Greece joined 1981, but I read somewhere, somewhere that it was't really qualified for it and they took 'em anyways.

    Today's crisis is erm... well they made numbers prettier, they made it look that they were doing better than they actually were and eventually it all fell apart and this is where we...or they... are now. But yes, they have hope with tourism and all.

    It feels bad, my country tries to do well with times like this, the early 90s depression hit us so badly and we've learnt from that time. And then there are other stupid EU countries who really don't care and it pisses me off.

    Just like few countries, IMO, got to EU pretty too easily. Romania for example. It feels like some countries just try to get inside EU and when it's done, it's all going to be good because of all the money EU will give.
     
  7. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    ^ haha oh yeah, i know what actually happened with greece, i just find it baffling that it could happen, if that makes sense - i don't know what went wrong with various economic bodies to let things get so bad and not make provision for things going so wrong.

    it kind of baffles me every time - i used to work for a firm that did investment management in (what were then) emerging markets - mainly russia, ex soviet states, central asia, some of the far east and so on, and we had something like 75% of our business in russia and when russia defaulted on its national debt in 1998, the whole company just ground to a halt - i remember we were all just thinking "how can the politicians and economists let things get that bad?!"

    although given how much everything's on credit/borrowed at the moment, it's not unlikely to happen again and could happen to much richer nations. even the dollar is looking a bit precarious recently.
     
  8. Destiny

    Destiny Still Sanity Challenged! Premium Member

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    Okay I am just posting this cause I found it funny in a way it was part of a sports report, this reporter does at the end of his articles, not sure why but he does and I kind of got a chuckle out of it, at the sametime thinking do not give anymore idea's please. :lol:

    How Come ....
    Congress and the House of Representatives can combine two controversial bills by voting for a measure that, when a doctor wants to know if you have insurance coverage, you can say "don't ask, don't tell?"
     
  9. Desertwind

    Desertwind Head of the Day Shift

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    OBAMA'S HUMOR RISES TO THE SURFACE some lightness for a change~

    Funny Presidents:He's coining sharp, wry sayings that draw laughs, especially when it's directed at himself

    Washington.. Addressing House Republicans recently, President Barack Obama said some things are more important than high poll numbers--"and on this, no one can accuse me of not living by my principles" That joke about his own ratings slide drew a hearty laugh from some of the president's fiercest political foes. It also neatly captured Obama's sense of hurmor:mordant, self-depreciating, deeply ironic. Does Barack Obama have a funny bone? The president certainly doesn't see to see himself as a natural comic. But more often than he gets credit for, he flashes a sharp and wry humor. At the annual Al Smith charity banquet in 2008, then candidate Obama had New York's tuxedoed elite in stiches with a send-up of hs fawning treatment by the national media. "Contrary to the rumors you've heard, I was not born in a manger", he said with people roaring I was actually born on Krypton and sent here by my father Jor-El to save the Planet Earth" In his State of the Union address speech, he called the bank bailout "as popular as a root canal" He suggested monthy meetings with congressional leaders, adding archly "I know you can't wait" At a recent observance of International Women's Day, he saluted heroic women "From those on the Mayflower, to the one I'm blessed to call my wife, who looked across the dinner table, and thought "I'm smarter than that guy" It brought down the house. Too many, the comedic gold standard among modern presidents was John F. Kennedy. Whether it was live news conferences or interplay with the audiences, Kennedy always seemed to be ready with a witticism or charm to disarm. But other presidents have also been standout humorists, like Ronald Reagan, the day he was shot, telling emergency doctors "I hope your all Republicans"

    Mark S. Smith..The Associated Press~
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  10. shazza_018

    shazza_018 A Daily Anthem Moderator

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    UK General Election date announced

    Prime Minister Gordon Brown has announced that the General Election will be held on May 6, and declared he would fight on the values instilled in him by his parents.
    Mr Brown named the day in Downing Street after returning from Buckingham Palace, where he formally asked the Queen to grant a dissolution of Parliament.
    Flanked by ranks of Cabinet ministers, he said the election date had been "probably the worst-kept secret of recent years".
    He went on: "The Queen has kindly agreed to the dissolution of Parliament and a General Election will take place on May 6."
    Mr Brown added: "I know where I come from and I will never forget the values... instilled in me by my parents."
    Mr Brown said he was seeking a "clear and straightforward mandate" from the country to carry on the work of economic recovery.



    Sources: yahoo.

    This will be my first general election, but I'm still no sure who to vote for although I did get a letter from one of the local candidates for labour but not for any other party. What I do know is that I would not want a Conservative government run by David Cameron.

    A few questions to get some discussion started:
    Are you voting?
    Have you decided which party candidate you're voting for?
    Why are you voting for them?
    If you're not voting then why not?
    Feel free to add your own questions :).
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  11. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    i'm not sure yet, i think actually the most likely thing for me would be to spoil my ballot.

    i would never, ever, ever, ever, ever vote tory, and even aside from the fact that david cameron is a smarmy git with no policies, i can't bring myself to do so. i've always been a staunch labour supporter but since tony blair bastardised the party, eroded all its long standing values and turned it into tory-lite, i doubt i could vote for them at the moment either. which makes me sad, because we need a decent socialist party and right now the only one we have is "respect" (ha!) and the less said about galloway the better.

    it's possible i'll go for someone smaller, like the lib dems or green, but unlikely. i'd never not vote, but spoiling a ballot seems like a fair choice to me.

    nope.

    i can understand the arguments people give for not voting - all the parties are the same, they're all corrupt, nothing ever changes - and i think they're valid reasons but by voting you at least have something of a voice, albeit a small one, and that's why i'd always choose ballot-spoilage over not voting at all. the way i see it if you don't bother to vote you have no right to complain when things don't go your way. at least if you said *something* (even if it's the "up yours to the lot of you!" of spoiling) when given the opportunity, you can still do so.

    my question is "how do you think the election will end?"

    for me i think it's so close at the moment between the 2 main parties that a hung parliament is looking more and more likely. there are pros and cons to hung parliaments but the way i see it if it stops the tories being in full power, i'd be ok with that result. i remember thatcher's destruction of industry & community, i saw the effects of it at the time and i still see them now, and they make me incredibly sad and angry. cameron keeps waffling on about "broken britain"; well, mr c, if you want to know WHY it's broken, look no further than the iron lady, a hell of a lot of it can be traced directly back to her horrible policies. if she's given a state funeral on her death, i might actually have to emigrate.:scream::scream:
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2010
  12. Jacquie

    Jacquie Ward Girl Moderator

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    I'm just curious as to why you don't want Cameron as your next PM. Now you've got to realize I know nothing about the man. Is it you don't want a Conservative Gov't or you don't want Cameron as your next Prime Minister?

    I remember my first time voting. I had no guidance from my parents as my parents belief was not to discuss politics, among other stuff with us. It was only a couple of years ago that I found out how my parents vote. They were totally shocked at how I vote. I'm a Conservative and they are Liberal.

    Anyways my first vote. I voted for the person as opposed to the party. I liked the way the man answered the questions that were asked by my fellow high school students. The man was a member of the New Democratic Party. It's the only time I've voted for them. If Stephen Lewis were still in charge of the Party today I may vote for them only because of the man. I don't believe in the policies of the NDP.

    I think it's very important to vote. Even if you vote by spoiling your ballot you've at least had a say in the decision. Nobody can fault you for that. I don't think enough young people vote today and that is sad. Their views of things are just as important as the 'older' view.
     
  13. shazza_018

    shazza_018 A Daily Anthem Moderator

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    Can't you atleast take a second look at Labour? I know it's hard with the party so messed up but you should. I don't have an opinion about Tony Blair I never have I've always felt indifferent about him. My families always voted Labour I'm not so sure if I will this time.

    I might (just might) go Liberal this year, I just find that Nick Clegg actually gives you an honest straightforward answer to any question. Also some of the Liberal manifesto pollices are attractive like scrapping tuition fees for full and part-time students on first degrees - it probably wouldn't effect me but definately my brothers and sisters.


    I appreciate that you would spoil your ballot paper, if it came to it. I think it's still important making the effort and going to the polling to do so. I just find it a little ignorant when people don't vote, we fought a long time to vote so we should exercise that right even if it meanings spoiling your ballot paper.

    A hung parliment seems likely, but I would hope Labour have a majority in the situation so they can try and form a coalition government with the Liberal Democrats...but that'll be difficult.

    basically this:

    Also he and his party say they are going to cut Britains debt but not increasing taxes, instead they're going to reduce spending in the public sector but don't say how. He's all talk and no action. I also fear he'll make cuts in Education, I'm already struggling because of the cuts in University and College funding from the government (essentials meaning less places for students) I don't wanna see more cuts. I don't know their policy on much else and they're not specific enough. He's all talk and no action, the slimiest most annoying politican I've seen in my life. The way he comes across as the saviour of Britain, as if Britain is so bad pfft. Also like to say I've seen what conservative governments have done in the past, left this country in chaos and ran as fast as they can for the hills.

    My dad doesn't like to give away who he'll vote for but my mom's always voted Labour. My dad said that we'll probably vote for a party candidate as a family rather than seperately, so we'll be discussing this alot. After all there are three of us voting. We talk about politics openly in our family especially my mom - she doesn't speak much english but she definately keeps tabs on the politics on this country.

    Me too, you should vote if you have the right to, even if it means spoliing your ballot. I know it's so true, I think young people feel so out of touch with politics, they don't feel it really affects their day to day lives and it's sad. In this country it'll be the over 55 that will have the most influence in the general election - probably because they'll be the group mostly likely to vote.

    A question: what are your views on parties like the BNP and UKIP? How do you think they'll fair in this election?
     
    Last edited: Apr 6, 2010
  14. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    for me it's both. i've never been pro-conservative, ever, and i would never be (unless they or i did an incredibly drastic u-turn on everything they/i stood for!). for me the recent conservative party have done more to screw this country than just about anyone else, with thatcher right at the top of the list. i could not, morally or ethically, vote for them. ever.

    as for cameron - well partly it's because, as i said before, he's a smarmy git with no policy. of course it's not his fault that politics these days is more about what your wife thinks of you and how much mud you can sling at the personalities on the other side than about actual politics/policy, and i accept that, but he really does play up to it. he contradicts himself all the time as well - he came in to lead the tories with great statements about how he realised everyone was sick of the spin associated with labour, the personality politics of blair and co - and yet he's wheeled his wife out to go on about how amazing he is (but with a few housewifely flaws thrown in to make him appear human), his election campaign posters have so far consisted of (1) his smug face, (2) unflattering pics of gordon brown with text that essentially points and laughs, and (3) pics of "ordinary" people going "i've never voted tory before, but i want to see a change in *insert problem*" - these latter posters have even spawned facebook groups (i'm in one of them: "i've never voted tory before... because i'm not a f**king idiot"). for someone who thinks everyone's sick of spin, he sure as hell engages in a lot of it.

    added to that he just has *no* policy, or at least nothing clearly defined, beyond, as shazza pointed out, wanting to simultaneously improve public services, cut spending and not increase taxes, which seems a bit contradictory. i have a politics degree and so far all i can make out in terms of tory policy at the moment is "whatever labour are saying, we'll do the opposite". if i can't discern anything, how are people without politics degrees (ie almost everyone) meant to? his entire campaign, policy and party to an extent seem to be, at least for now, based on slick one liners and nothing else.

    my parents too actually. my dad votes tory (he told me eventually but tbh it was pretty obvious!). i remember when blair came to power my mum got all excited that she'd voted labour for a change, as if she was suddenly down with the kids or something. she only did it because he made them so much like the tories that it wasn't really any different!

    yep, i agree 100%

    not at the moment, no. blair ripped the heart out of the party - it's no longer a socialist party, it may be nominally but it's not in practice. i'm a socialist, i can't vote for a party that claims to also be but has so totally lost touch with its traditional election base. they spent so much time and money chasing after the middle englanders and the central ground that they forgot their roots and are basically a different party now. there is no labour party anymore, imho. even now with all the trade union activity going on (rail, mail and a couple of others) they're showing no signs of, y'know, actually supporting the labour! as one of my favourite lyrics of all time put it: "change your name to new, forget the f**king labour" - spot on, really.

    in a way i think it makes sense that they went that way, to an extent anyway - after all we ARE all bourgeois now, and the centre ground is what matters in the purest vote-getting terms, but that doesn't mean the working classes and labour causes just vanish, they shouldn't have just been left behind. new lab have promised to halve poverty, to end child poverty, and in fact under them these things have at best stayed about the same and at worst got worse. the traditional remit of the labour party is industry, working classes, community, and alleviation of poverty, new labour are ignoring most of it.

    [/rant]

    yeah clegg seems ok, i'm keeping an eye on him, as it's plausible i'd vote for the lib dems - i did last time actually.

    i think that's the best we can hope for at the moment. i think in the polls the tories aren't far enough ahead to take the labour majority away or something (it's been a while since i checked and statistics never were my strong point on my degree!) - whatever happens i hope the lib dems get enough seats to be able to keep a tab on things!

    i agree with your assessment of cameron, particularly this bit:

    not to mention that so many of the problems in britain today can be traced back to conservative values of the 80s - labour haven't caused these problems for the most part, they just haven't been able to fix them.

    the bnp: hmm... well how the hell they have a legitimate mandate is beyond me. they should never have been able to gain legitimacy in the first place, whoever made that decision needs their head testing. nick griffin is a **** of the highest order. they try to come across as all new, turned over a new leaf, fluffy bunny nice party who just happen to all be racist ex-thugs with a thing for shooting at non-whites from hilltops with rifles, or setting dogs on non-whites, or putting poop through non-white letterboxes etc. they are disgusting, and should never, ever have been allowed to stand. i'm all for freedom of speech, but their history (and indeed more recent undercover videos of their meetings) clearly show that they're not just about speech, they're about inciting hatred and violence (which is actually illegal). not to mention their holocaust denial. they're just.... it makes me really really sad when people are taken in by them. my faith in uk politicians was almost restored recently when griffin was on question time and ALL the other politicians, regardless of party, united against him. good for them.

    ukip: erm, i tend to see them as a bit of a joke - i mean, kilroy for god's sake!!! i don't really see why they bother - do they really think the uk would be better off that far out of europe? our economy is based on european trade, without links to it we'd be bankrupt in weeks. and all because they want to keep their precious (and redundant, outdated, pointless) monarch on their currency. i just think they're kinda pathetic really.

    [/rant again]:guffaw:
     
  15. shazza_018

    shazza_018 A Daily Anthem Moderator

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    that billboard with his face on looked more like a some make-up ad than an election one :lol:. I mean seriously...



    Yeah totalling agree with this

    I mean that may be the case and their manifesto is a joke; check it out here. But they do have support, especially in the north where they're based mainly, ofcourse their was election of two members of the BNPto the European Parliament in June 2009 (which seems like a compete joke because they're supposedly against the EU blah blah blah). I really fear that they'll get the votes they need/want and as support grows for them...the situation gets worse. I remember the riots up here in places like Oldham and Bradford...the situation was pretty bad, I don't want the BNP to flare up more tensions between British Muslims and the White communities of this country. They are racist, islamophobic and just imo disgusting. I agree with the last bit of what you said :).

    Yeah I understand that being part of the EU and having relations there is important for our economy, I just wonder how it would be if one of these parties (UKIP or BNP) got in power...I definately know for certain our already fragile economy wouldn't survive.
     

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