Why Is Hawkes Ignored?

[Top41]

One comment I see coming up over and over again is that Hawkes doesn't have enough to do and doesn't have any really juicy storylines. I think that's definitely true--aside from the two eps in season three ("And Here's To You Mrs. Azrael" and "Raising Shane"), Hawkes hasn't really been spotlighted in any significant way.

Why do you think that is? Hawkes has an interesting backstory--he was a surgeon then a coroner and now a CSI. Hill Harper is a great actor. What gives? Why don't we get more focus on Hawkes?

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

I think alot of it has to do with the beginning of season two. In the first few episodes, it's obvious that he's new to the fieldwork, and it was fun watching him interact in those early eps. He was really starting to shine and finally get his moment in the sun.
Where I think he got sidelined is when Aiden left the show, and Lindsay was brought in. I'm not going to make this an anti-Lindsay thread, my feelings about the character are already known, but I do believe that she was brought in too early. Aiden had just left, and Hawkes would have made up the deficit. It was his rookie year, and because Lindsay was brought in, his rookie year was sidelined for Lindsay's story. He had already been on the show for a season, and I feel he deserved more than the back burner after that. Whether you like Lindsay/Anna or not, I think the writers should have sidetracked HER story, or brought her on a season later, just so Hawkes/Hill Harper would be rewarded for putting his time in on season one. In the episodes before Lindsay was present, Hawkes had some good storylines, and now they are few and far between after her arrival.

In my opinion, Hawkes has been ignored because the writers tried to put the Lindsay character out there too soon, and had to sideline him to do that. I really hope they remedy this in the future, because as was mentioned, Hill Harper is a brilliant actor and Sheldon Hawkes is an awesome CSI and a great character, and its disapointing to see him being put on the back burner, even after three seasons.

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Top41 said:
One comment I see coming up over and over again is that Hawkes doesn't have enough to do and doesn't have any really juicy storylines. I think that's definitely true--aside from the two eps in season three ("And Here's To You Mrs. Azrael" and "Raising Shane"), Hawkes hasn't really been spotlighted in any significant way.

Why do you think that is? Hawkes has an interesting backstory--he was a surgeon then a coroner and now a CSI. Hill Harper is a great actor. What gives? Why don't we get more focus on Hawkes?

I really have no logical explanation for why he's ignored. As I understand it, Hawkes was made a CSI because the fans wanted to see more of him. I saw an interview with Hill once where he said he'd love to get bigger story lines for Hawkes, so it's not coming from Hill. I in no way want to accuse anyone of anything, but with CSI: NY's lack of diversity, it really stands out when the only non-white member of the regular cast continually gets shafted.

Even the two "Hawkes episodes" weren't really focused on Hawkes. During the most important explanation for Hawkes' back story in AHTYMA, TPTB brought Danny in to strip. As soon as Carmine took off the shirt, Hill Harper's head could have exploded and I don't think many people would have noticed. RS was more about the team trying to clear Hawkes and about Shane Casey, and in the end even Danny, than it was about Hawkes himself.

They need to do a story line where Hawkes gets pissed at Danny for constantly stealing his thunder. :lol:

It really makes no sense. We need to do a fan project that will show that we want more quality (not just in the lab processing or being the walking encyclopedia) Hawkes on the show. [/half joking]

 

[MacsLady]

I agree with you csinyfreak that the bringing in of Lindsay meant Hawkes' potential for getting storylines was reduced. Also, in season 3, Lindsay got a storyline that lasted from ep 3 to ep 18 (on and off) while Hawkes just got 2 one-episode storyline. I think Hill deserves a proper, long story arc (like Danny got with Tanglewood/Shane, Mac got with 333, Stella got with AIDS/Frankie, and Lindsay got with her secret and the court case).

 

[xfcanadian]

I really don't think it has anything to do with Lindsay. They didn't have much of a choice anyway, since there would have been only one female CSI, they had to bring in another female. Plus the others have had story lines since then.

The simple reason...he is black. Although he looks half white anyways, seems silly. And maybe because of that tptb thinks he is less popular. Lets face it, Danny is an attractive white male, of course they are going to promote him the most. The same thing happens on Vegas with Warrick.

Hawkes is one of the stronger characters (IMO), and Hill is one of the best actors on the show. I love Hawkes, he is the intellectual character, and they need to play that up more. One of my favorite eppys was Raising Shane. Although i was disappointed the lack of Hawkes, even in an eppy about him.

 

[Salean]

Yeah, I completely agree with Hawkes needing a longer story arc. Although I apparantly have a 'thing for the underdog', which would mean that if Hawkes got too much screen time than he would immediately stop being my favourite character, it would be nice for him to have something more than he is getting.

Over in the UK we've just seen 'Time's Up' and I think there was great potential for a minor Hawkes story in that episode. He seemed to really idiolise Browning, and then finding out that this guy wasn't all he was cracked up to be must have shaken him up a little bit. But at the end of the episode Hawkes just... disappeared.

I think I read an interview with one of the producers of CSI NY in which they said that they felt they should have kept Hawkes out of the field until Lindsay's storyline had settled down a bit, so that they could spend more time focussing on his transition... or something like that. I don't remember exactly. I don't know if that would have given Hawkes more or less attention... but it would have meant that he had a more ongoing storyline.

 

[Sammy11]

PerfectAnomoly
During the most important explanation for Hawkes' back story in AHTYMA, TPTB brought Danny in to strip. As soon as Carmine took off the shirt, Hill Harper's head could have exploded and I don't think many people would have noticed.

That actually annoyed me, I understand that lots of people find Carmine attractive (I do myself) but this was an important scene for Hawkes, to make it into a squee fest for Danny fans (no offence meant) kind of took away the emotional point of it.

I agree with CSINYFREAK and Macslady , Lindsey was brought in too soon, I’m not saying she didn’t have to be added, but Hawkes needed more time to develop as a field CSI. A big thing was made in Season 1 of Hawkes going for the role, it was basically a rival too Danny’s position if I remember correctly, more should have been done with that in itself, Danny still needing to show he was good enough after Mac doubting him and getting pulled of the promotion grid, Hawkes wanting to prove himself, it could have added a great under current to the show itself.

Hill Harper has great chemistry with everyone on the show, and he should have more screen time. Hawkes has a great back story, he is also a very sensitive character, although more controlled in his emotions things affect him deeply, he thinks a lot, tries to rationalise. We need more storylines to see this side of him as Hill Harper does them so well. On a more personal note I love it when he geeks out, especially with Flack about :lol:.

In ‘Raising Shane’ he was great, but we didn’t see that much of him… he was one of the main protagonists but he was locked up?! Not taking anything away from Hill’s performance, he was good!!

I think that maybe they add to many characters into the show, I've just watched 4x04, which although a good episode for Hawkes, they had other characters in there (like Adam and Angell) who aren't regulars - now I love both those characters, but they get a small amount of screen time (alone) even Lindsey only had about 5 mins and she is in the title credits. My feeling is they have too many characters to write for and write into an episode, which is actually good for us viewers as I think we pretty much love all of them but it just means that some get forgotten about. Also TPTB give the well loved (and I know Hawkes is) characters like Danny more stuff, because they know he has alot of fans. He pulls in viewers (as far as they are concerned)... I think Hill could given the chance, but for TPTB, Carmine or Gary (and Melina)will always sell.

Anyway my final say is to TPTB. We need more Hill, or the next fan project to you will have to be something like “tighty whites with skidmarks”

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Sammy11 said:
A big thing was made in Season 1 of Hawkes going for the role, it was basically a rival too Danny’s position if I remember correctly, more should have been done with that in itself, Danny still needing to show he was good enough after Mac doubting him and getting pulled of the promotion grid, Hawkes wanting to prove himself, it could have added a great under current to the show itself.

That would have been a great story line, and it would have served a lot of purposes. It would have continued the tension between Mac and Danny that magically disappeared in S2. It would have showed Hawkes making the transition between being an ME and a CSI while showing him interacting with Mac and Stella as his superiors showing him the ropes, and it would have created tension between Danny and Hawkes since Danny would probably see Hawkes as Mac's new Golden Child. Instead, it all ended up in "CSI: NY's Big Black Hole of Loose Ends." (my new favorite saying. )

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

xfcanadian said:
I really don't think it has anything to do with Lindsay. They didn't have much of a choice anyway, since there would have been only one female CSI, they had to bring in another female. Plus the others have had story lines since then.

I really don't think the show "needed" another main female character. It would have been fine with just Stella, who i believe was strong enough to pull her weight as the female part of the show. And yeah, other characters have had storylines after Lindsay's arrival, but all of them had decent enough introductions in season one to warrant continuing their stories throughout. We learned about Stella's past as an orphan in season one, and so it could come up again for her later in the series. We also learned alot about Mac on all levels, so his story was also carried on to the later seasons. Danny had the incident with Tanglewood and in On the Job, so it was continued. Flack had a single episode, and since then he hasn't gotten much on his own, just alot of being a good friend to Danny and getting him out of trouble. Hawkes was on the show in season one, but we didn't see any big developments with him in season one at all, which gave him less to go on in season two. Besides that he worked in a hospital, which we learned in Here's to You, Mrs. Azrael, we really know nothing about his past at all. Season 2 would have been the time to explore it because it was his year in the field, when before he'd been confined to the morgue. It didn't matter who they brought in, he still got shafted, and his storyline should have been first before any new character's.

The simple reason...he is black. Although he looks half white anyways, seems silly. And maybe because of that tptb thinks he is less popular. Lets face it, Danny is an attractive white male, of course they are going to promote him the most. The same thing happens on Vegas with Warrick.

I really dont think it has anything to do with him being black, and I dont think it makes tptb think that he'd be less popular at all to the fans. I can't really comment much on the Vegas stuff because i don't really watch it that often, but with Danny--i think it has more to do with his emotional depth as a character and interesting storylines he's had in the past, rather than the fact that he is white. (although his attractiveness might do something for his popularity ;]) We've never gotten to see much of Hawkes since season 2 started, and i think the lack of knowledge about him and the plethora of knowledge we have about characters like Danny and Mac is another reason that he might not get as many storylines. Again, i think this would have been avoidable if he'd had his rookie year the way he deserved to have it-in the spotlight.

 

[darx2mint4]

That would have been a great story line, and it would have served a lot of purposes. It would have continued the tension between Mac and Danny that magically disappeared in S2. It would have showed Hawkes making the transition between being an ME and a CSI while showing him interacting with Mac and Stella as his superiors showing him the ropes, and it would have created tension between Danny and Hawkes since Danny would probably see Hawkes as Mac's new Golden Child. Instead, it all ended up in "CSI: NY's Big Black Hole of Loose Ends." (my new favorite saying. )

I remember hearing in one of the season 2 commentaries that it was a mistake that the writers later realized to have Lindsay and Hawkes new in the field at the same time. They said they wanted to develop Hawkes, but were already planning on bringing Anna in (IIRC) and that is why we didn't see much of a story line of Hawkes transitioning.

 

[Top41]

PerfectAnomaly said:
I really have no logical explanation for why he's ignored. As I understand it, Hawkes was made a CSI because the fans wanted to see more of him. I saw an interview with Hill once where he said he'd love to get bigger story lines for Hawkes, so it's not coming from Hill. I in no way want to accuse anyone of anything, but with CSI: NY's lack of diversity, it really stands out when the only non-white member of the regular cast continually gets shafted.

I know, that's particularly bothersome. And there is no good reason he'd be ignored--he shouldn't be. He has one of the most interesting backstories of all the characters.

Even the two "Hawkes episodes" weren't really focused on Hawkes. During the most important explanation for Hawkes' back story in AHTYMA, TPTB brought Danny in to strip. As soon as Carmine took off the shirt, Hill Harper's head could have exploded and I don't think many people would have noticed.

:lol: Too true. I liked the moment between them and that Hawkes talked to Danny, but did Danny really have to be shirtless for it? I understand where Peter Lenkov (who wrote the ep) was coming from when he said that it was a natural moment between guys, but I think they forgot to consider how the female demographic would take it. :lol: I'll fully admit I missed some of what Hawkes said the first time around , and that's too bad because it was a nice moment for the character. I did like the rest of the stuff in that ep for him, though.

RS was more about the team trying to clear Hawkes and about Shane Casey, and in the end even Danny, than it was about Hawkes himself.

Yeah, that's true. And it's too bad because if it had been say, Danny, sitting in that jail cell, we would have seen a lot of hand-wringing and angsting. Compare it to RSRD, when Danny was in trouble, we still saw a lot of his side of things. We should have seen more of Hawkes in that ep.

They need to do a story line where Hawkes gets pissed at Danny for constantly stealing his thunder. :lol:

:lol: How funny would that be???? :lol:

xfcanadian said:
The simple reason...he is black. Although he looks half white anyways, seems silly. And maybe because of that tptb thinks he is less popular. Lets face it, Danny is an attractive white male, of course they are going to promote him the most. The same thing happens on Vegas with Warrick.

He looks half-white???

I have to disagree about Warrick--I think Warrick has had some great storylines on CSI right from the beginning. His gambling addiction was something that came up right away, and since then he's dealt with stuff happening in his old neighborhood, had a flirtation with Catherine, got married, got divorced, developed a pain pill dependency and even was a suspect in a murder investigation.

If Hawkes had one-fourth of those storylines, I don't think this thread would be around.

 

[hairy0haggis]

Yep I'm going with you on this Top. Warick's has had some great storylines, albeit more in the first half of the series than latterly, I feel.

I get really frustrated when Hawks simply disappears from episodes with no explanation. Hill Harper is a truly gifted actor when it comes to playing both funny and serious stuff. I think the problem is that he maybe tends to get upstaged by people due to his ability to be so natural in front of the camera (does that make ANY sense? No? Didn't think so!).

It's like in the episode that we just got shown here in the UK. Hawks enthuses about the possibility of time travel and makes it genuinely interesting (or 'geeks out' as someone brilliantly said in their post) then our man Flack comes along with one of his classic, sarcastic, scene stealing one liners and... Well, Sheldon's explanation is suddenly forgotten as we smile and nod our heads at our lovable cynic Flack. Mind you, saying that, I thought Hawks rebuttal of 'I know it's heady stuff Flack' in such a way that he was actually saying 'for you!' was an excellent come back line and if said by Danny would have probably had earned it's own thread by now. Hill's natural delivery of the line made it almost disappear and that's just a damn shame.

As for playing the ol' race card *DEEP BREATH* It's a bit too easy to do that. CSI does not strike me as a show that would allow that in anyway, shape or form. Yes, Hawks is the only black man amongst five 'white people' but then you could say that Stella is the only 'Greek', Lindsey is the only 'Southerner' and Mac is the only... Errr, whatever you call someone from Chicago. I get why this comment was made but it's perhaps sometimes a little too quick to call the 'race card' into question. I think there are many more reasons behind Hawks getting little air time to look into before we jump in with that. I, for one, would be the first person grabbing a torch and pitch fork if I believed racism to be in play in this day and age. I know, very unfortunately, that this is still a big issue… but surely not on a primetime show?? I’m going to regret that comment aren’t I? Of course this is only my meagre opinion and I hope it doesn't offend because it certainly wasn't supposed to.

Maybe we could look to ourselves on this one. Top41 started this thread yesterday and it has not had THAT many replies or even been viewed that often, even though it's a fascinating and often asked question. Now, and stay with me here... if it was Flack or Danny's name in the title of the thread the viewing would be through the roof by now. *DUCKS AT ROTTEN VEG THROWN* Don't get me wrong, I am one of the most guilty for only viewing the threads that contain my favourite characters . But if the writers do indeed checks these threads out for opinions and ideas, well... you can kind of see why Sheldon's being shunned can't you?

So, I've done my usual and over done my explanation again but I hope some of that made sense. Someone on here (sorry, too damn lazy to look back and too frightened my 1984 computer will crash if I open a second window to check) said that she thought Lindsey was brought in too soon after Aiden left and I find myself most agreeing with her (again, apologies for not quoting you direct, I just fear the wrath of this computer too much!). I'm not a Lindsey hater (in fact I feel really sorry if Anna ever comes on here because we're rotten to her at times... not judging, just commenting ) but I think we could have well done without the character until Sheldon had his fair share of meaty storylines and I feel genuinely sorry for Hill Harper that he is being so obviously over looked.

And now I'm done. Ignore the smoke, that would be my soap box burning Oh and can I just give Top41 the thumbs up for starting this thread because I think it's a cracker and well over due.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

hairy0haggis said:


Maybe we could look to ourselves on this one. Top41 started this thread yesterday and it has not had THAT many replies or even been viewed that often, even though it's a fascinating and often asked question. Now, and stay with me here... if it was Flack or Danny's name in the title of the thread the viewing would be through the roof by now. *DUCKS AT ROTTEN VEG THROWN* Don't get me wrong, I am one of the most guilty for only viewing the threads that contain my favourite characters . But if the writers do indeed checks these threads out for opinions and ideas, well... you can kind of see why Sheldon's being shunned can't you?

I agree with you on that one--i think if this thread had mentioned Danny or Flack or even Mac or Stella, it would have gotten more attention by now. I think that shows even more why Sheldon needs more good storylines--people aren't drawn to him the way they are to other characters, because he doesn't have as much time to show why he belongs there so much. I don't think it has much to do with us posting on here though--because i think if the writers really took anything off of this board, it would be more along the lines of fixing the character of Lindsay or something like that, since that seems to be the main focus of alot of conversations on here.

Of course, characters like Adam or Sid are still loved without a lot of screen time, but for the moment they are reoccuring characters, and Hawkes should be given at least his fair share for being a main character.

 

[hairy0haggis]

cSiNyFrEaK30 said:

I don't think it has much to do with us posting on here though--because i think if the writers really took anything off of this board, it would be more along the lines of fixing the character of Lindsay or something like that, since that seems to be the main focus of alot of conversations on here.

Oh I don't know about that, we don't really see that much of her these days. That was a typo in my last posy BTW. It meant to say I'm not a lIndsey Lover not the other way round

Excellent point on Adam and Sid though. I never even thought of that... maybe we do need to lynch the writers after all. I know, I know... fickle, fickle Haggis!

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

hairy0haggis said:

cSiNyFrEaK30 said:

I don't think it has much to do with us posting on here though--because i think if the writers really took anything off of this board, it would be more along the lines of fixing the character of Lindsay or something like that, since that seems to be the main focus of alot of conversations on here.

Oh I don't know about that, we don't really see that much of her these days. That was a typo in my last posy BTW. It meant to say I'm not a lIndsey Lover not the other way round

Good point, I didn't think about that. She certainly has become more bearable this season and we are seeing less of her, so maybe the writers do venture here more than i thought.

Excellent point on Adam and Sid though. I never even thought of that... maybe we do need to lynch the writers after all. I know, I know... fickle, fickle Haggis!

lol they are having enough problems right now, i think =] plus, if we lynched them who would write the Hawkes episodes we need?