The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

[NickyFan]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

First of all myfuturecsi, you know how I think about your fics

People who write things like you got have really know idea what fanfic writing is about... they should just get a life
I mean riewiewing is there to offer support or giving you hints how you could improve your writing... but the stuff you got is really nothing else then a flame...

I never published a story on FF before because I'm scared to get reviews like that too. I'm still in my babyshoes with writing and writing in English makes it even harder for me.

So far I have a profile at FF too without ever publishing a fic... I use it just to review and I really hope I don't offend anyone with that... I like to share the feelings I had while reading the story with the writer and I really hope that it's helpfull for them.

People who write stuff like you all said up above have really nothing else to do then making other people feel bad. They're very weak people who have a hard life, I guess... They can't stand up for their opinion, they can't even find the right arguments to make it believable and constructive... sounds very weak to me...

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Well, I've been writing fics for more than ten years and writing in general since I was in elementary school and I am not sure that I'm going to put any of my fics on ffnet either. Unless they make it where you can friend people on there and only your friends can comment. :lol: If I could trust that people would be constructive rather than just negative, nasty and hyper-critical, I would... but, I can't trust that, so I probably won't. But those of you who already do/have published a fic there, don't let those kinds of comments stop you... because you were brave enough to put your fics there in the first place. I'm just not sure I'm that brave. :lol:

People who write stuff like you all said up above have really nothing else to do then making other people feel bad. They're very weak people who have a hard life, I guess... They can't stand up for their opinion, they can't even find the right arguments to make it believable and constructive... sounds very weak to me...

Someone once told me that sometimes some people have to put others down in order to make themselves feel better. Like building themselves up by breaking someone else down. But, how does that make anyone feel better? I mean, I guess it would if one didn't have a conscience. :lol: But me, whenever I say anything slightly mean to anyone I feel awful about myself and I feel guilty and wretched and I apologize as quickly as possible... even if the person deserved the comment cause they were being a jerk. :lol:

 

[myfuturecsi]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

I never published a story on FF before because I'm scared to get reviews like that too. I'm still in my babyshoes with writing and writing in English makes it even harder for me.

Well it's good that you are honing your skills through the Song Fic Challenges. It's a safe audience and you know we would never flame you. And you're doing great! You are really are! Keep it up!

Writing is a skill that takes time to hone. What bugs me about fan fiction is these groups of people who spend their time bashing and flaming stories without realizing that

a. it's fan fiction, it's not ours to begin with therefore we have no right to insult other writers.

b. it's a way to improve your writing skills, it's a great way to overcome writers block and it's a great way to boost your confidence.

As I'm learning as of late, it's got a dark side. There are fan fiction purists who will simply just dish your writing because you haven't stayed true to the character-and let's face it we have to insert our own personalities into the character at some point. I tend to add my sarcastic side into Nick, but then sometimes when I watch the show he'll say something I've often figured he would say. That cracks me up.

Oh by the way, that person has gone on and flamed my other stories. I'm laughing because I think well a. she changed her name to get pass my block but it's the same person because she ALWAYS puts butterfly in her name LOL, and b. why is she wasting her time.

 

[NickyFan]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

I never published a story on FF before because I'm scared to get reviews like that too. I'm still in my babyshoes with writing and writing in English makes it even harder for me.

Well it's good that you are honing your skills through the Song Fic Challenges. It's a safe audience and you know we would never flame you. And you're doing great! You are really are! Keep it up!

First of all... thank you. It means a lot to hear that and I really appreciate the feedback I get in the songfic challenge. It's a really great place to learn and I can say that I feel more confident now after finishing my third fic for it

Writing is a skill that takes time to hone. What bugs me about fan fiction is these groups of people who spend their time bashing and flaming stories without realizing that

a. it's fan fiction, it's not ours to begin with therefore we have no right to insult other writers.

b. it's a way to improve your writing skills, it's a great way to overcome writers block and it's a great way to boost your confidence.

As I'm learning as of late, it's got a dark side. There are fan fiction purists who will simply just dish your writing because you haven't stayed true to the character-and let's face it we have to insert our own personalities into the character at some point. I tend to add my sarcastic side into Nick, but then sometimes when I watch the show he'll say something I've often figured he would say. That cracks me up.

Oh by the way, that person has gone on and flamed my other stories. I'm laughing because I think well a. she changed her name to get pass my block but it's the same person because she ALWAYS puts butterfly in her name LOL, and b. why is she wasting her time.

Yeah it's sad but true that some people simply and easy don't realize that what they do has absolutely nothing to do with reviewing a story... People like that don't even have the guts to write a fic on their own.

It's absolutely impossible to not give something from you away in a story... on some point you bring yourself in. There must not even be a special person for that... and in smut fics it is absolutely necessary to identify with the characters you work with... otherwise a reader won't get THAT feeling... the feeling of love between two people. Therefore you absolutely need your own ideas and of course your own fantasies...
Aslong as writers stay close to the characters they write it is okay and very appreciated.

 

[happyharper13]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Well, I've been writing fics for more than ten years and writing in general since I was in elementary school and I am not sure that I'm going to put any of my fics on ffnet either. Unless they make it where you can friend people on there and only your friends can comment. If I could trust that people would be constructive rather than just negative, nasty and hyper-critical, I would... but, I can't trust that, so I probably won't. But those of you who already do/have published a fic there, don't let those kinds of comments stop you... because you were brave enough to put your fics there in the first place. I'm just not sure I'm that brave.

I never published a story on FF before because I'm scared to get reviews like that too. I'm still in my babyshoes with writing and writing in English makes it even harder for me.

Honestly, I can understand where you're coming from, but FFnet really isn't that bad.

I've put 9 stories up there (4 oneshots, 2 incomplete short chaptered fics and 2 big stories). I've gotten plenty of reviews on the oneshots, short chaptered fics and the first long story, and none of them were flames. If anything, the support people (especially LostLadyKnight, who really inspired me on the first one with her constant and incredibly supportive reviews) gave me really helped me get more into fanfiction and believe in myself.

'Se Salva,' the other long chaptered story and the one that I'm working on right now (see clickable signature banner), has 300+ reviews so far. Out of those 314 reviews, I think only 3 or 4 are flames. I can look at the flames and feel a bit discouraged (though the awful spelling and typos in said flames tend to make me take them even less seriously), but then I see all of the other reviews, which are all much more laudatory, and I remember that clearly I'm doing something right.

If anything, I take the flames as an indication that a) my story is getting big and that's how the flamers found it and why they ended up flaming it, or b) that the flamers actually do like the story and they just try flaming in order to force the me to push it in a different direction. Generally, the flames I've gotten have basically said that the flamers didn't feel that the story was moving fast enough or that it was getting too boring. To me, that means that they like a lot of aspects of the story, but they want one of those aspects to change, which isn't going to happen. Nonetheless, they had to care at least somewhat about the story or think it had some amount of potential in order to flame. In general, I think a lot of us readers (I know that includes me) get spoiled in terms of getting immediate smut and/or action in stories, rather than character development or complexity.

In general, I think that a lot of the flames that get doled out to longer stories that don't have obvious spelling errors/typos/et al are given because that particular reader gets frustrated that the story doesn't go straight to the action and/or smut. They're looking for instant gratification, which they're used to getting from fanfiction. But not writing for instant gratification isn't a bad thing, and it allows for a lot more character and plot development. If you look at real published novels (particularly the ones that really stand the test of time and that are regarded as classics), they don't go with instant action and/or smut; they have character and plot development. And, in the end, it's the flamers' problem if they can't handle that.

That said, the vast majority of stories don't get flamed. The stories that get flames tend to be either ones that have gotten a lot of reviews and become quite popular (like myfuturecsi's), where some readers inevitably get annoyed with some aspect of the story despite a lot who like it. The other group of stories that get a lot (and probably most) of the flames are the ones that are just really carelessly written -- like they write their fic in ten minutes without including punctuation and misspelling every other word. In general, if you put effort into your stories, you either won't get flamed or you'll get a lot of positive reviews that easily overwhelm the bad ones.

In general, I'd say there are a few very easy things you can do to avoid being flamed:

-spellcheck the story
-use a beta (and make sure your beta has a good grasp on grammar, spelling and punctuation)
-write a decent summary (along with that, never ever ever include 'sorry summary sucks', 'story better than the summary', or anything of that nature). Awful summaries are the easiest way for flamers to find stories to target.
-disable anonymous reviews (generally, the default setting on FFnet is for anonymous reviews to be disabled, so that should weed out most flamers as well). Most flamers aren't brave enough to actually sign their flames.

Hope that helped!

 

[myfuturecsi]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Great advice happy!

So what else do you think ticks these flamers off, what aspects do you think rile them up.

Do they think a smut story involving a male character and a female character is 'mary sue' or someone living out their own 'fantasies'? Do they think the character is out of sync with the one on tv?

 

[happyharper13]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Great advice happy!

So what else do you think ticks these flamers off, what aspects do you think rile them up.

Do they think a smut story involving a male character and a female character is 'mary sue' or someone living out their own 'fantasies'? Do they think the character is out of sync with the one on tv?

Ooh, that's another big one. Good idea. Mary Sues are definitely a big one. If I were a flamer, that's what I'd go after. Mary Sues, for anyone who doesn't know, is an original female character who the author clearly favors a bit too much (though there's also a much less used male equivalent, the Gary Stu, along with the trans equivalent, the Mary Stu). Common signs of a Mary-Sue:
-she is a male character's "dream girl"
-she is described as very, very talented and very, very beautiful
-the author spends an inordinate amount of time offering a physical description of her
-she has a dark secret in her past (frequently the dark secret also serves to further just how awesome/attractive the character is; so, for example, she has a stalker because, really, who wouldn't want to stalk her because she's just so awesome and gorgeous :wtf
-she has an unusual somewhat mystical name (think 'Raven,' 'Rain' or another romanticized more nature-oriented word that isn't normally a name)
-more than anything, the author loves her a lot, but the audience never really gets a compelling reason to; in the end, all of the characters love her too, especially after she either saves the day or gets rescued.

Basically, IMO, what a Mary-Sue boils down to is an author who feels he/she (but most likely she) needs to invent contrived circumstances and characteristics to prove her character's awesomeness. The female character can't just be normal. She has to be drop-dead gorgeous, fluent in 10 languages and a brilliant CSI (or something along those lines).

If you really want a good Mary Sue descrip, check out the discussion of Mary Sues at the Fanfiction Critique Group or the hilarious Mary Sue litmus test (just google 'Mary Sue test' to find it).

Other things that tick flamers off? From the convos I've had with flamers, some of the reasons they gave were:

-stories where authors are rude to those providing constructive criticism. I was really surprised by how many flamers used to be ConCritters but switched over after getting their concrit dismissed time and again.

-stories with awful summaries.

-stories with blatant typos.

-stories which disregard the FFnet rules (chatspeak and script format are two of the big ones that seem to get trashed)

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

For some flamers it might just be envy that prompts them to flame a fic.

 

[myfuturecsi]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Basically, IMO, what a Mary-Sue boils down to is an author who feels he/she (but most likely she) needs to invent contrived circumstances and characteristics to prove her character's awesomeness. The female character can't just be normal. She has to be drop-dead gorgeous, fluent in 10 languages and a brilliant CSI (or something along those lines).

Good description. So what's the difference between shipping a character such as Nick with Mandy or Nick with Sara from Nick with 'Mary Sue'?

And how do you avoid being accused of Mary Suing a female character on the show?

For some flamers it might just be envy that prompts them to flame a fic.

That's very likely, GNRF!

 

[happyharper13]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Good description. So what's the difference between shipping a character such as Nick with Mandy or Nick with Sara from Nick with 'Mary Sue'?

And how do you avoid being accused of Mary Suing a female character on the show?

The difference, IMO, is that readers are already at least somewhat invested in established characters like Sara and Mandy. To me, the big difference is that, if I ship Nick/Mandy, I can find stories and continue to be invested in the characters. It's easier to stay invested because the characters are still there. With a Mary Sue, you see the romance in one story, and then that story is over and it's time to go find another ship. There have on occasion been original female characters that I liked, and even Mary Sues that I liked, but I can only find them in a single story or series of stories, and then I'm on to the next story. Basically, if you're going to create an original female love interest, then you really need to give the reader a darn good reason to invest in that character.

To avoid Mary-Suing a character, don't make her too kick-ass. Make her tell jokes and be capable of laughing at herself. Don't let her take up too much screentime, especially if that screentime focuses on character drama/development. Don't make her a love interest to one of the male CSIs. I think Riley Adams is the perfect example of how to bring on a new and attractive female character without making her a Mary-Sue and that, while Lindsay Monroe and Sara Sidle aren't Mary-Sues, if you combined certain aspects of each (dark past + new girl + love interest), you'd end up with a Mary-Sue.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

If you want to write an original character for the purpose of being involved with one of the CSIs (male or female), how do you do that without making them a MarySue/Gary Stu? Just give them a normal, boring childhood/background? I get how to do it if you're not going to have them be a love interest, but how do you do it if you want to write in a love interest? Just make them something other than a CSI?

 

[happyharper13]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

If you want to write an original character for the purpose of being involved with one of the CSIs (male or female), how do you do that without making them a MarySue/Gary Stu?

Honestly, I think it's really, really difficult to do so. If you want to, then you should:
a) kill the OFC off
b) have them break up
c) give the OFC a very minor part in the story as a whole
d) give the audience a lot of time to get to know the character before even hinting at some sort of chemistry or attraction between her and the CSI.
e) make her a genuinely funny character, and not angsty. Have her actually saying things that make your readers laugh.
f) make her decidedly average
g) make her a psycho killer (which would again prompt a break-up in the end)
h) keep the perspective consistent. Preferably write the whole story in first-person from her perspective because that would help the readers identify and sympathize with her more.
Something that I think has worked better is making her a character that the CSI has known previously, and for a long time. A few good stories that use original female characters as love interests in the best way and without making them MarySueish, IMO, are the following:

-MsMaggs' 'Feasibility Study'/'Laws of Motion' series with Tawny and Carrie
-Lady-Lunastar's 'Flashback'
-Anything by JauntyChick

Also, LLK has an awesome story up that is about a long-distance friendship between Greg and an OFC.

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Honestly, I think it's really, really difficult to do so. If you want to, then you should:
a) kill the OFC off
b) have them break up

I mean a permanent love interest. ie... someone the character eventually ends up marrying or whatever.

I guess one could write them as having disagreements/fights/misunderstandings and not have everything be all perfect and peachy-keen romance 24/7. :lol:

d) give the audience a lot of time to get to know the character before even hinting at some sort of chemistry or attraction between her and the CSI.

Well, that's not too hard I don't guess. But, how much time is enough time? In chapter terms. Say if your story has 20 chapters total. By what number chapter should you start showing the attraction or whatever?

e) make her a genuinely funny character, and not angsty. Have her actually saying things that make your readers laugh.

By not angsty, do you mean not having a tragedy in her past? I could do that without too much problem most likely, but the funny thing I'm not sure about. I have difficulty writing comedy myself. I can do a line here or there, especially if its a regular character in the fandom (ie Nick, Greg, etc) because I have an easier time imagining what they might say that's funny because I have examples from the shows. But, an original character is a bit more tricky when it comes to making them funny. :lol:

g) make her a psycho killer (which would again prompt a break-up in the end)

Well, to me this would only work if it's a short term relationship. What I mean is, the original character would be in a minor relationship with the other character... ie a couple of months at most.

h) keep the perspective consistent. Preferably write the whole story in first-person from her perspective because that would help the readers identify and sympathize with her more.

I'm not really comfortable writing in first person nor am I good at it. :lol: Is there any other way to make readers sympathize with her? :lol:

Something that I think has worked better is making her a character that the CSI has known previously, and for a long time.

Well, I've kind of done that. :lol:

Is it okay to have the character (from the show) who is dating the original character telling her she's beautiful? I mean obviously, if you're in love with someone and in a loving moment, you're not going to say "you know what, baby, you've got very average looks, but I love you anyway". :lol: Does it break the "making her so attractive" rule if even though you describe her as average, her significant other in a moment of passion says, "you're so beautiful" or even if you have it say "he got lost in her beauty"? Would it be better to counteract that with her thinking "she had always felt that she was fairly average, but he made her feel beautiful"?

Generally though, it's easier to write a romance between already established characters. :lol: You don't have to worry as much about trying not to make a Mary Sue. :lol:

 

[myfuturecsi]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

Generally though, it's easier to write a romance between already established characters. :lol: You don't have to worry as much about trying not to make a Mary Sue. :lol:

Not really. With a character like Mandy or Riley, there's a chance you could be called out if you make them a bit Mary Sue like, if you have them healing a character like Nick or Greg, or you write a good love scene and such.

I've even read some criticism of writers turning Sara into a Mary Sue-like character. She was everyone's friend when they felt she had conflict with some of the characters on the show. She's the saviour in all the stories, when on the show she was a victim at times. She always wants a baby when they felt that on the show she clearly didn't want one for fear of passing on the murder gene. I guess the critics of the GSR writers (not all writers) felt that the Sara in their stories was far too different than the one on the show. I haven't read enough GSR stories to agree or disagree with the critics. I'm just stating how they felt some writers put Sara into the role of the perfect character when she was a clearly a flawed character-and she was, which was great because it was better that she'd be flawed than perfect or she wouldn't have garnered the millions of fans that she did.

But there can be a danger of making your female character from the show into a Mary Sue. I think I've done okay with that. I hope I have. I think it would be hard for me to write a Mary Sue because well I'd hate her guts!!!:lol: And I'd kill her off in a horrrible way!

I have written OFG for Nick as love interest, but I killed one off right away and the other one dumped him. Both were kind of screwed up actually.

Which is why I like putting Mandy with Nick because she is kind of quirky and witty and a nice opposite of the straight-laced Nick. To each his own, really.

Another question HappyHarper the Wise Lady of the FanFics! :lol: Just out of curiousity, when someone writes slash fic, is there a worry about Gary Stu. I mean if you write Nick/Greg fics, is there a concern about making either Greg or Nick too perfect?

I've read a few Nick/Greg stories and sometimes it's like Greg is the perfect guy and Nick's saviour and such. That's just the feeling I get?

 

[GregNickRyanFan]

Re: The "I Need Fanfic Help" Thread

I've read a few Nick/Greg stories and sometimes it's like Greg is the perfect guy and Nick's saviour and such. That's just the feeling I get?

I've read some that are the other way around too.