"The End Game" Discussion **SPOILERS**

Wish there had been more of Nick in this one.:(

I did like the bit in San Diego, the Forensic guy assuming Nick was going to be his new boss. :lol:

So what clips would you guys have chosen for the montage?

I'll give it some thought and post mine later.

I did like Finn's, I know someone who knows someone there. (Don't remember her exact quote). :lol:

Finn's been in the hospital three? times since arriving in Vegas in 2012? Nick's only been hospitalized three times in fifteen years! Maybe it's a good thing he's going to S.D. before her horrible luck spreads! ;)

Oh how I wish for a CSI: San Diego. :thumbsup:
I really hope Lisa Shue won't be back ! (no hate against her, she's a great actress, but her character is quite done now, like Langston was at the end of season 11)

I agree (although it doesn't matter to me because I'm done watching). But what a waste of a character. In the time she's been there she's done nothing but get into trouble and put everyone else in danger too. Plus all of the flirting and sleeping around. What a mess. They could have really gone in a good direction and sort of "re-invented" the show when they brought Danson in, but they screwed up.
Very well put. I couldn't have said this better. There was so much potential when they brought in Ted Danson. I have liked Elisabeth Shue in pretty much everything I've ever seen her in (she's a riot in Hamlet 2). So the fault is not with the actors. But it's like the powers-that-be, who are in charge of directing the writers, had no clue where they wanted this show to go. Which, really, was the dilemma when William Petersen left. It was like they had no real vision of what they wanted this show to be post-Grissom.

They made such a promising start, IMO, with the way Ray Langston was introduced. I really thought they were going to re-imagine the concept in a groundbreaking, engaging way. But no, they had to ruin it with the "Raaaaayyyyy" melodrama. Really, they've managed to ruin pretty much every character. Let me count the ways:

  • Did they ruin Grissom? Not really, IMO. (I'm going to stay out of the GSR debate; see below.) Petersen got out while the getting was good. I find it interesting that even episodes of his I didn't like so much when they first aired, I find them supremely engaging now. I guess it's all relative.
  • They ruined Sara by insisting on ending her relationship with Grissom. I never really much cared for GSR, but was OK with the way it was handled. There was no need to put an end to it, because what have they done with Sara's character development as a result of the breakup? Nothing.
  • They ruined Catherine's sendoff by turning her into "Super Catherine" and failing to give her a goodbye with Grissom. It didn't have to dominate the entire episode ... and why they thought it did still baffles me. Grissom turning up right at the end to reconnect with an old friend, instead of Catherine talking to Morgan (yes, I know that was meant as a replay of her conversation with Holly Gribbs ... but still), would have been so much more satisfying.
  • They really ruined Brass with far too much out-of-character behavior, having him do things he never would have done, like concealing evidence to protect Ray. And don't even get me started on that whole landslide of a departure story with Ellie.
  • They ruined Morgan by turning her into an unprofessional, weepy, whiny neurotic. It seems to be stock-in-trade TV writing for a female character: "We've gotta make her vulnerable!" And boy, did they ever. I don't oppose vulnerability. We are all vulnerable. What I oppose is this trend in dramatic writing to equate that with neurosis. It just plays into all the female stereotypes that will never go away as long as they are perpetuated.
  • They almost got away with ruining Nick, except it sounds like George Eads put his foot down on that. His character stayed true to himself pretty much right to the end ... but I wonder how much George had to fight to keep it that way.
  • Warrick. I still struggle with that departure story. It's especially puzzling to me, given what little I know of what was happening behind the scenes with Gary. Did they really have to make art imitate life so closely? It felt like the powers that be were insisting on ramping up the conflict level ... "because we need that to keep people interested." Well, it's not what I need. But maybe I'm not the typical viewer.
  • They ruined Langston by turning him into "Super Ray" and giving him a nebulous "dark" past, then regurgitating that whole Nate Haskell mess (which was great in Ray's introduction; how I wish they had left it there).
  • And poor Riley. So much promise in that character, and Lauren Lee Smith did the best she could with what she was given. I'm still impressed when I see her episodes in syndication. But then they just dropped her like a bad habit, rather than giving her character room to grow. So unfair.
  • Ditto for Louise Lombard. Sofia had many great moments, but unfortunately that's all they are ... through no fault of the actor's. She too did her best with what she was given. But after the plot device of using her as a "wedge" between Grissom and Sara wore thin, it was as if the powers that be had no clue where to go with her.
  • As with Sofia, this one I can't blame on the newer regimes, because it happened early on. They ruined Greg by putting him in the field. His character was so much better as a lab rat. Like Sofia, Greg has had his moments since then. But they were rarely as dazzling as all those memorable moments he had in the lab.
  • They ruined D.B. and Finn by never really figuring out who they were, as people, before introducing them to us. All they could think to do, it seems, was to surround them with countless personal melodramas. That wasn't how we found out who the original characters were. We figured them out through their work, and their reactions to it.

Which is a good illustration of my problem with all that has transpired since Season 10. It's like they panicked and kept wildly shifting gears with knee-jerk reactions, rather than starting with a good, sensible sit-down to plot the future of the series ... and commit to it. Everything in that slow downward slide has smacked of desperation. There were hints that first with Ray, and then with D.B., they were starting to get things figured out. But it didn't take long before it all began to unravel with sadly conventional TV writing ... something that was not a problem for this series, for the most part, in its first 10 seasons.

Sorry for this rant. Somehow all of that was inspired by the other great observations in this thread.
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That was brilliant and spot on. ^

When Ray was introduced, I thought it was going to be so cool to see him train and learn as a new CSI. And it was. For one episode. Then bam...as you say, he was Super Ray.

Same with DB. He came in as kind of this wacky free-spirited guy who had an unusual way of looking at things, and then bam...his granddaughter is kidnapped, his daughter is kidnapped, his wife is mad at him, etc.

Finn...meh. In my opinion she never did have any potential. As soon as she arrived with the baggage of already knowing DB and having some sort of past with him, she was ruined.

So yeah...the good news is that beginning in April Hulu Plus will be airing CSI and I can watch the good OLD episodes again anytime I want and forget the past few years of a mess that this show I used to love became.
Exactly, Smokey. Though, when they dialed back Finn's attitude, I saw a glimmer of hope. But really, they were just trying to recreate Grissom and Sara, right? After all, those two knew each other before Vegas. But while we got to see that relationship grow over time, as you say, with D.B. and Finn it was like bam! Smacked us over the head with it. Never a good thing. Someday they'll learn.

We've been watching CSI in syndication on E! HD and have been quite enjoying it. Like I said before, even the episodes I thought I didn't like when they first aired ... I like a whole lot better now. I guess I didn't realize, or believe, how bad things could get.