Teamleader

[ComicCollect_NL]

As much as I think Nick is the more logical choice to be supervisor he just doesn't seem like a great leader. Instead of bringing up past events like Grave Danger or Evaluation Day I'll bring up a more current example.

Just this season,

Spoiler: Season 11 Premier

Nick had no intention of going to therapy until Catherine told him about her experiences and he got into the situation with the shootout.

A leader can't afford to wait to deal with an issue as serious as that. He could've put himself and others on his team in great risk.

Though I disagree having Nick on the lead. Nope, I disagree with this spoiler as an argument. Surely, you all remember Grissom has migraine, and had problems with his hearing for a whole season. What made him a good supervisor?

To me Nick is a person, who loves his job, and he'll pull out everything out of it... whether he's a leader or not.

would love to see someone come in and be maybe a temp. supervisor for a couple of episodes. Kinda like how Liev Schreiber came in when Grissom was gone on his sabbatical. That way the writers can determine if the fans like him/her enough to make it a long term thing and bypass all of the who should be supervisor talk. I'm not sure about this Mr. Weiss guy because I'm not really sure who he is even after looking him up on iMDB.:lol:

You never heard of the 1990s tv show Pretender? Try to look it via Youtube, who knows you might have a impression. How about this? Random characters for each say four of five episodes?

 

[AFIS]

As much as I think Nick is the more logical choice to be supervisor he just doesn't seem like a great leader. Instead of bringing up past events like Grave Danger or Evaluation Day I'll bring up a more current example.

Just this season,

Spoiler: Season 11 Premier

Nick had no intention of going to therapy until Catherine told him about her experiences and he got into the situation with the shootout.

A leader can't afford to wait to deal with an issue as serious as that. He could've put himself and others on his team in great risk.

Though I disagree having Nick on the lead. Nope, I disagree with this spoiler as an argument. Surely, you all remember Grissom has migraine, and had problems with his hearing for a whole season. What made him a good supervisor?

To me Nick is a person, who loves his job, and he'll pull out everything out of it... whether he's a leader or not.

would love to see someone come in and be maybe a temp. supervisor for a couple of episodes. Kinda like how Liev Schreiber came in when Grissom was gone on his sabbatical. That way the writers can determine if the fans like him/her enough to make it a long term thing and bypass all of the who should be supervisor talk. I'm not sure about this Mr. Weiss guy because I'm not really sure who he is even after looking him up on iMDB.:lol:

You never heard of the 1990s tv show Pretender? Try to look it via Youtube, who knows you might have a impression. How about this? Random characters for each say four of five episodes?

Nick is great guy to have your back but as a leader...maybe not so much. Grissom did have migraines and a hearing problem but he never once waited until everyone got on his back to do something about it. Nick had no intention of going to a shrink until the situations I explained in my previous post. That's the main issue and not the fact that Nick has a problem.

I'm sorry, ComicCollect. I was born in the 90s so shows in that era are a little of a blur to me.:lol: I looked up the show and the Weiss guy seems kind of too scientific. But that just might be his character. Other than that I like him.

What do you mean random characters for each of the four or five episodes? Do you mean like everyone takes turn being the supervisor for a couple of episodes? It'd be kind of hilarious to see a thing at the end of each episode where you vote for your favorite CSI supervisor. Kind of like American Idle.:lol:

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

Nick is great guy to have your back but as a leader...maybe not so much. Grissom did have migraines and a hearing problem but he never once waited until everyone got on his back to do something about it. Nick had no intention of going to a shrink until the situations I explained in my previous post. That's the main issue and not the fact that Nick has a problem.

If your basis for Nick not being a good teamleader is his waiting to get something done that could negatively affect the team if left undone, than neither were Grissom or Catherine good leaders. Grissom had to be hounded constantly to get his paperwork and employee evaluations done. It was this tendency, along with bits of nepotism, that led to the team being split up in "Mea Culpa". And he too resisted going to a therapist. He advised others to do so, but when it came time to visit one himself (after Warrick's death) he refused.

Catherine, while good with playing politics, seems to have a problem with dealing with team morale. It took Sara having to tell her in order for Cath to 'switch up' the team in 'Family Affair'. And this happened after she lost a team member because of it (Riley).

Not one was a 'perfect' leader. Given that his only flaws appear to be overworking and not wanting to see a therapist, I'd say that puts Nick on the same level as his previous supervisors.

 

[AFIS]

Nick is great guy to have your back but as a leader...maybe not so much. Grissom did have migraines and a hearing problem but he never once waited until everyone got on his back to do something about it. Nick had no intention of going to a shrink until the situations I explained in my previous post. That's the main issue and not the fact that Nick has a problem.

If your basis for Nick not being a good teamleader is his waiting to get something done that could negatively affect the team if left undone, than neither were Grissom or Catherine good leaders. Grissom had to be hounded constantly to get his paperwork and employee evaluations done. It was this tendency, along with bits of nepotism, that led to the team being split up in "Mea Culpa". And he too resisted going to a therapist. He advised others to do so, but when it came time to visit one himself (after Warrick's death) he refused.

Catherine, while good with playing politics, seems to have a problem with dealing with team morale. It took Sara having to tell her in order for Cath to 'switch up' the team in 'Family Affair'. And this happened after she lost a team member because of it (Riley).

Not one was a 'perfect' leader. Given that his only flaws appear to be overworking and not wanting to see a therapist, I'd say that puts Nick on the same level as his previous supervisors.

Like the usage of "nepotism", Cthulhu. Reminds me of the days studying for the SATs:lol:...anywho, back on topic.

Grissom did have a habit of procrastinating but how can you compare that to a serious problem like post tramautic stress disorder? It's like comparing apples and oranges. Grissom didn't see a therapist but by that point he was already so emotionally checked out of being a leader that therapy at that point wouldn't have done much good. With his girfriend gone, his close friend dead, and death on a daily basis I was surprised that Grissom didn't leave earlier in the season.

I'm not saying that Grissom, Catherine, Sara, or even Greg are "perfect" leaders. Everyone has their assortment of problems that makes up who they are. But, a capable leader shouldn't have to wait until someone else brings up a problem for him to deal with the problem. That shows a dependance that a leader can't afford to have.

Catherine's "team morale" problem is again like comparing apples and oranges. If anything her team morale problem is what happens when any new leader steps into an old leader's shoes. Everyone has to figure out who does what and how far to go before getting into trouble. Nick's post traumatic stress disorder is a lot more serious than team morale.

And random question, but when had Grissom ever shown nepotism in the workplace?

 

[Jacquie]

I think Nick would know full well how to play the politics game with his Dad being a judge. Being able to play the political game is a major factor when having to deal with Ecklie and company.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

Like the usage of "nepotism", Cthulhu. Reminds me of the days studying for the SATs:lol:...anywho, back on topic.

Grissom did have a habit of procrastinating but how can you compare that to a serious problem like post tramautic stress disorder? It's like comparing apples and oranges. Grissom didn't see a therapist but by that point he was already so emotionally checked out of being a leader that therapy at that point wouldn't have done much good. With his girfriend gone, his close friend dead, and death on a daily basis I was surprised that Grissom didn't leave earlier in the season.

I'm not saying that Grissom, Catherine, Sara, or even Greg are "perfect" leaders. Everyone has their assortment of problems that makes up who they are. But, a capable leader shouldn't have to wait until someone else brings up a problem for him to deal with the problem. That shows a dependance that a leader can't afford to have.

Catherine's "team morale" problem is again like comparing apples and oranges. If anything her team morale problem is what happens when any new leader steps into an old leader's shoes. Everyone has to figure out who does what and how far to go before getting into trouble. Nick's post traumatic stress disorder is a lot more serious than team morale.

Granted, the comparison is off. However, I think that the flaws showed by Grissom and Cath under normal circumstances are far worse than Nick's failure to see a therapist due to PTSD. I would actually grant Nick some leeway in that he's probably not thinking clearly. Seeing as how this is a rare occasion, and that he agreed to see one after Cath convinced him, I don't think this will happen again. Nick has shown that he learns from his mistakes, and to hold this one instance against him and his leadership skills seems a little extreme.

And random question, but when had Grissom ever shown nepotism in the workplace?

The best example I can use is in season 7. I forgot the episode, but Griss walks in on Greg and Sara processing something with music blaring. He immediately begins to chastise Greg. When Sara admits that it was she who put on the music, he didn't say anything. Playing favorites? Definitely.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

First off, where was it said that Nick has PTSD? So Catherine recommended that he see a therapist. That wouldn't nor does it make him a bad leader.

He was stalked, thrown out a window, held at gunpoint and buried alive and just like now he DID NOT let it affect his job or put anyone at risk.

Grissom's hearing problem would have. He could have missed something important or not hear a suspect that was still on scene.

Yes, he didn't need anyone to tell him to get his hearing fixed because he didn't tell anyone about it. If he did, the whole team would have told him to get it fixed, that it could affect his job.

And not everyone got on Nick's back about it, Catherine was talking to him like a friend and suggested it. No matter what, he would not have been able to return to work unless the department shrink gave his ok and the department heads.

Again, the fact that Catherine SUGGESTED (not told or hounded him to do) to get therapy has no bearing on him being a good leader.

I'm thinking that you are pretty young and have not had much experience with supervisors and managers or have not been one yourself.

If your reason for Nick not becoming a leader was a prerequisite for everyone, there would be NO bosses in this world. I'm sorry, but that is not a valid reason.

Nick still has NOT put anyone's lives at risk nor would he. Yes, Nick emptied his gun on the suspect, but the cops shot the guy too. Nick didn't do anything wrong, just went a little overboard. Again, no one's life was at risk.

And Grissom played favorites. Sara, Warrick, and Greg could do no wrong. Nick could. Sara got a DUI, she should have been fired. Sara would play the 'poor me' game with Grissom and he came rusing to her. Basically, he coddled those three, but never Nick.

In any case, Grissom did recommend Nick for LEAD CSI, not to mention Catherine promoted him and if the top bosses didn't think he could lead she wouldn't have been able to promote him.

You are stuck too much on Nick's emotions not allowing him to be a good leader and that has nothing to do with it. Everyone has emotions and gets emotional. Will Nick be the best supervisor CSI has ever seen? Probably not, because no one is that good and perfect. I've been a manager and let me tell you we all make mistakes.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

And Grissom played favorites. Sara, Warrick, and Greg could do no wrong. Nick could. Sara got a DUI, she should have been fired. Sara would play the 'poor me' game with Grissom and he came rusing to her. Basically, he coddled those three, but never Nick.

I'll extend the same courtesy you gave me over the Sofia suggestion and refrain from bringing up the times Griss showed that Greg could do wrong. Besides, I think we've battled over that one before. (I can't remember the outcome so I'll just declare victory for me.) :lol:

Probably not, because no one is that good and perfect. I've been a manager and let me tell you we all make mistakes.

You? Mistakes?! Surely not!?!

 

[Raynn]

I'm not saying that Grissom, Catherine, Sara, or even Greg are "perfect" leaders. Everyone has their assortment of problems that makes up who they are. But, a capable leader shouldn't have to wait until someone else brings up a problem for him to deal with the problem. That shows a dependance that a leader can't afford to have.

Catherine's "team morale" problem is again like comparing apples and oranges. If anything her team morale problem is what happens when any new leader steps into an old leader's shoes. Everyone has to figure out who does what and how far to go before getting into trouble.

Riley's exit interview showed that the morale problems stemmed directly from Catherine's "ineffective leadership" - her inabilty to delegate responsibilities, which then led to ineffectiveness and conflict among the others.

Catherine has stated, when working for Grissom, that "we all know what to do; Gil doesn't micromanage" - it seems that she didn't notice that with the changes to the team (losing three members, and gaining two new ones), perhaps people didn't just "know what to do" anymore. At that point, the team leader should have stepped in to help the new team became as cohesive as the old one.

Also, in Catherine's case, it took multiple people bringing up the problem (Riley and Sara, plus Ecklie in a way) before she did anything about it. She didn't even read Riley's comments until Ecklie told her to.

And Grissom played favorites. Sara, Warrick, and Greg could do no wrong. Nick could. Sara got a DUI, she should have been fired. Sara would play the 'poor me' game with Grissom and he came rusing to her. Basically, he coddled those three, but never Nick.

In any case, Grissom did recommend Nick for LEAD CSI, not to mention Catherine promoted him and if the top bosses didn't think he could lead she wouldn't have been able to promote him.

I've always thought that Grissom saw more potential in Nick than anyone, and pushed him harder to help him develop that. Then when he did, Grissom gave him the recommendation (over Sara), and in the end, Nick was his "best student."

Nick continues to develop that potential, getting more experience in a supervisory position now, as well as expanding his job knowledge (learning about bugs). Sure, there's bumps along the way, but that happens to everyone, and he's dealing with things so far.

One of the most important things - his team and others he works with all respect and support him.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

And Grissom played favorites. Sara, Warrick, and Greg could do no wrong. Nick could. Sara got a DUI, she should have been fired. Sara would play the 'poor me' game with Grissom and he came rusing to her. Basically, he coddled those three, but never Nick.

I'll extend the same courtesy you gave me over the Sofia suggestion and refrain from bringing up the times Griss showed that Greg could do wrong. Besides, I think we've battled over that one before. (I can't remember the outcome so I'll just declare victory for me.) :lol:

You? Mistakes?! Surely not!?!

Ummm, Grissom always thought Greg could do no wrong, just like Sara and Warrick. Did we argue about this before? I don't remember. :lol: And you really don't think you won, did you? :lol: I'm not a fan of Greg (well not the new Greg, like labrat Greg better) so you can bring it up all you want. However, his fans might not like it.

I also know Nick is not perfect either. There a few times I would've smacked that man upside his head.

Now are we arguing about something, I forgot. :lol:

ETA: Raynn you said it perfectly!

 

[ComicCollect_NL]

Nick is great guy to have your back but as a leader...maybe not so much. Grissom did have migraines and a hearing problem but he never once waited until everyone got on his back to do something about it.

Well, it took a full season before Grissom took a surgery for his ears. He finally takes a second opinion from Robbinson, after it's been noticed by his team.

First off, where was it said that Nick has PTSD? So Catherine recommended that he see a therapist. That wouldn't nor does it make him a bad leader.

As Vampireluvr mentioned, Catherine suggested. It's not only because because of friendship, it's also her job to do so. I don't believe that won't be an argument to write off Nick as team leader. Everyone has their own flaws. So, that wouldn't be the argument. I'll stuck with my own argument.

 

[Desertwind]

I don't get why fans are still ranting about Grissom He's been gone since S/9, and we're now in S/11. It's like talking about Bob your former boss, "wasn't he great, but he had flaws and wasn't perfect.. and he's gone.... and I like new guy he's better", I think the logical choice is Nick regardless of what' happened years ago or what's happening now & oh and whoever posted the names on this poll it's not LANGSTROM, it's LANGSTON

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

I don't get why fans are still ranting about Grissom He's been gone since S/9, and we're now in S/11. It's like talking about Bob your former boss, "wasn't he great, but he had flaws and wasn't perfect.. and he's gone.... and I like new guy he's better", I think the logical choice is Nick regardless of what' happened years ago or what's happening now & oh and whoever posted the names on this poll it's not LANGSTROM, it's LANGSTON

We weren't ranting about Grissom. We were comparing all of the supervisors. Nick's flaws were brought up which made others question his leadership abilities. By showing that he has a few of the same flaws as the previous supervisors, we were able to better judge his capability as a leader. If anything, I would say that it made everyone look equal. One is no better than the other. I wouldn't call that a rant.

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

I don't get why fans are still ranting about Grissom He's been gone since S/9, and we're now in S/11. It's like talking about Bob your former boss, "wasn't he great, but he had flaws and wasn't perfect.. and he's gone.... and I like new guy he's better", I think the logical choice is Nick regardless of what' happened years ago or what's happening now & oh and whoever posted the names on this poll it's not LANGSTROM, it's LANGSTON

Because Grissom was and always will be a big part of this show (whether he's on it or not). Just because you're mad at the actor for leaving and now hate someone you did nothing, but gush about before, doesn't mean we have to stop talking about him.

All this gushing about Langston is really getting old, I'm a big fan of Nick, but don't go gushing about him in every thread.

There is no doubt Fishburne is a great actor. He is and I've enjoyed in every role I've seen him in. He was great as Ike Turner. I like Langston too, not just the way he's been handled.

OK, I'm going to get in trouble for the rant, but I had to get it out.

Besides this thread is a discussion about who should be teamleader after Catherine leaves. You cannot have a discussion about that without including Grissom.

*goes to run off and hide until Smokey and DJ go to bed*

 

[Desertwind]

It would be appreciated if some fans don't go overboard and "analyze" others comments, when they don't really know what the other fan means. This thread is about teamleaders. I stressed on the boss who leaves and how he or she was remembered. I'm not mad at anyone, just think it's a moot point to harp on a person who's gone. On the team leader I pick Nick, this is what this thread is about and if some want to talk about someone who's left that's their prerogative, but keep the opinions on that level and don't assume what another is talking about. And I never mentioned Ray on my posts. Thank you