Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life: The Abortion Discussion

True, but would you agree that a single-celled, water-dwelling amoeba is still alive? A fetus is larger than that almost instantly.
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In my opinion that is also a life-form, which is precisely why I consider it ridiculous that people will kill flies (and other small insects, spiders etc.) in an instant without even batting an eye, yet calling a fetus a living being who must not under any circumstances be harmed.

Who decides that a cluster of cells has the right to live but a fully developed animal does not?
 
That's an interesting point, Jorja_Rain! I'd never considered that. For the record, I (personally) won't even kill a spider and I'm also vegetarian. Yes, perhaps people who make the pro-life argument (myself included) should consider that...

*ponders*
 
Well, this is my opinion, If your mature enough to have unprotected sex than your mature enough for a baby. Like silly teenage girls who have sex with people, get pregnant, and get an abortion. I definatly disagree with it than.

But if your raped or your baby's is going to have a horrible life (like a terrible genetic disorder) than I agree with abortion.

My opinion can go both ways.
 
I think that is a stupid argument, unprotected intercourse is never mature unless you are in a monogamous relationship and actively trying to get pregnant.

Those 'silly teenage girls' you mention (and there is a large number of them) are most definitely not mature enough to have children. These girls (and boys for that matter) in fact are the poster child for immaturity.
 
^That's what I mean. Like it's hard to put into words. But I'm saying that's what people should think about when they make the desicion to have unprotected sex. I just think if abstinence was better taught, there would be less of an abortion debate.
 
As I have written before:
Try to educate children in school, do not, like so many religious groups are actually trying/are in favor of, keep children of a certain age (read: children 12 years and older) from the facts of life, they do need to know about sex, the risks of having it (pregnancies and STDs) and forms of birth-control. I believe that only well-educated children/teenagers can actually make healthy choices, and proper sex education from an early point on is the only way to fight the number of abortions.
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^Agreed.

I don't believe teaching children abstinence will have the desired effect. Curiosity, teenage rebellion and the natural sex drive eventually win over. And when that happens it's important that young people know how to deal with it instead of making heat-of-the-moment decisions.

Of course you can tell your kids about the benefits of abstinence and the risks of intercourse but still you have to make sure they also know about the alternatives.

After all, there is a reason protection was invented.
 
Actually astinence numbers have decreased. (it was on my general studies source study LMAO) But it was since HIV/aid awareness publicity increased. Well that's what they were talking about in the paper, I don't know what they've done about pregnancy... awareness. (is that the right word?)

Thanks 4ENSIX. :)
 
Abstinence have decreased, STIs/STDs have increased. Girls and Boys that are as young as 11 are beginning to have sex. (That was actually a study made by the health clinic that came to my school to talk about "sexual activities")

This honestly my opinion on it.

I've never been able to come to a clear decision on wether abortion is right or wrong. To be honest, I've thought of having one (Luckily, I wasn't pregnant after I was 2 weeks late). Why? Life, immaturity, no financial stability, living with parents. And I don't see the whole point of baring a child for nine months and giving it up for adoption, unless it's planned ahead of time (Surrogate mother, for example)

So, after I think about it, and write essay after essay about it in school I do think abortion should be legal, a decision made by only the woman involved, after seeking proper counselling.

I don't think anyone really has any say in wether it's the right thing or not for a woman. There are so many circumstances of why it should be legal, why it shouldn't be.

But if it were illegal, there would be so many new babies running around here. I'd rather see a 14 year old girl have a life, and not be penalized because she got pregnant (And no, it doesn't mean every person who gets pregnant is an immature person who didn't use protection. I know first handidly condoms break, and among young girls and boys- condoms are the only thing used.)

Personally, if I was ever raped, there'd be no way I'd keep the baby. Of course it's not the babies fault, but I wouldn't want to know I'm carrying a raped-born child, and have to look at this man when it's born in the eyes of my child.

Abstinence will never be in the percentages people want it to be. Of course, for kids in high school (the age where the average person first has intercourse) you begin to learn about all the methods of birth control. With many out there, who needs abstinence? (That was slight sarcasim..)

Basically, there is a reason why abortion is legal (Think back decades ago when woman would use coat hangers to try to abort the baby, and died in the process), and there is a reason why abortion is illegal after a certain period of time of pregnancy.
 
I believe the question of wether it's a living-being should be left to scientists. Would you ask for the opinion of a milkman if you were to undergo organ-transplant surgery? Plus, abortions after the first trimester are mostly illegal, anyways.

And did you even read what I wrote?
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Me? Of course I read what you wrote, I read what everyone wrote.

Did the milkman have organ-transplant surgery? If so, I would DEFINITELY ask his opinion. Sometimes real people with experience can have better advice than the experts.

Scientists are the people that are saying babies before the third trimester aren't babies, but as I said before, my aunt was born before the third trimester and she WAS a baby, she lived, and I'll take that over any scientist's opinion. I don't think anyone has a say over what a woman does with her body, but at a certain point it's not about the woman, it's about the baby.

I understand there are some circumstances where it's the best choice (for the better health of the mother or the baby) but when it's just for the mother's convenience I think is wrong. The baby should have the right to live, rather the mother wants it or not, who is she to decide?

In my opinion that is also a life-form, which is precisely why I consider it ridiculous that people will kill flies (and other small insects, spiders etc.) in an instant without even batting an eye, yet calling a fetus a living being who must not under any circumstances be harmed.

Who decides that a cluster of cells has the right to live but a fully developed animal does not?
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This is something I DO agree with. I'm Buddhist, and don't believe in killing anything. I also think people should get harsher punishments for abusing animals, but that's a completely different argument...
 
gregslabmouse, that's why, in most places where abortions are legal, there are massive restrictions on getting one after the 20th week, when it can survive prematurely.

Nobody has yet brought up the theory of the effect abortion has had on crime.

For those who don't know, the 30% crime drop rate in the mid-nineties have been (partially) attributed to abortions: the people who would be breaking the law were simply not being born.

The five states which legalized abortion previous to the 1973 case Roe vs. Wade experienced a similar crime drop relative to the year it was legalized in (approximately 18 years).

For further reading you can see a basic summary of Levitt and Donohue's paper on the subject, Legalized Abortion and Crime Effect.
 
gregslabmouse, that's why, in most places where abortions are legal, there are massive restrictions on getting one after the 20th week, when it can survive prematurely.
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I know that. Its the people that stand on soapboxes and try to convince people it's ok to kill a baby before a certain point, or even before they are born at all, because that baby is not a baby, that bug me.

For those who don't know, the 30% crime drop rate in the mid-nineties have been (partially) attributed to abortions: the people who would be breaking the law were simply not being born.
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That may be true, but there are much better things people could be doing to reduce crime than simply killing the problem before it starts.
 
Scientists are the people that are saying babies before the third trimester aren't babies, but as I said before, my aunt was born before the third trimester and she WAS a baby, she lived, and I'll take that over any scientist's opinion.
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That was at no point the question. The discussion was about aborting withing the first trimester. I did state that abortions after the 1st trimester are illegal anyways.

Did the milkman have organ-transplant surgery? If so, I would DEFINITELY ask his opinion. Sometimes real people with experience can have better advice than the experts.
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So you would ask a person that underwent the procedure in question for his/her opinion/experience?
Then how is this not a pro-choice argument? Seeing as that would mean asking women considering/having undergone abortion for their opinion on the matter and ultimately let them make the final decision.

For those who don't know, the 30% crime drop rate in the mid-nineties have been (partially) attributed to abortions: the people who would be breaking the law were simply not being born.
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Of course there's no way to ultimately proof that but it definitely makes for an amusing theory. :lol:
 
That was at no point the question. The discussion was about aborting withing the first trimester. I did state that abortions after the 1st trimester are illegal anyways.
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Apologies, I did read your first post wrong (3 different times, lol, guess this shows I shouldn't debate while medicated...)

So you would ask a person that underwent the procedure in question for his/her opinion/experience?
Then how is this not a pro-choice argument? Seeing as that would mean asking women considering/having undergone abortion for their opinion on the matter and ultimately let them make the final decision.
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I was rebutting what you said about letting scientists opinion decide rather or not something is considered a living being. If I believed in abortion, I would definitely take people's personal opinions that have experienced it over just what scientists and specialists say, as I would in any experience. But abortion and organ transplant surgery are two different matters. With organ transplant surgery, a person only has them self to worry about, but an abortion involves two lives, and only one has a say in the matter.
 
Apologies, I did read your first post wrong (3 different times, lol, guess this shows I shouldn't debate while medicated...)
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No sweat :p

but an abortion involves two lives, and only one has a say in the matter.
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If that is your opinion it's fine, I'm not saying you should have an abortion if you considered both lives to be worth the same. But I believe the mother has more rights than a fetus, given that the pregnancy did not happen out of pure negligence but due to failing birth control etc. Apart from the fact that I don't consider fetuses before the second trimester as babies, in the case of failing birth control etc., no one gave the child the right to "enter" (or whatever you may want to call it) the woman's body in the first place. Of course the best case scenario would be for the mother to accept the situation and make the best of it, but you simply cannot force your own believes and opinions onto others. Most women who abort do have valid reasons and do not consider it the easy way out.

Anyways, may I just add that I am sooo glad I'm gay, and thus it is very unlikely that I will one day be faced with such a decision (provided it would still be legal and I actually had the right to decide).
 
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