Discussion in 'CSI: Crime Scene Investigation' started by Destiny, Nov 1, 2008.
I agree with both of your interpretations, britfan.
My favorite episode of the season. Good character interactions, solid case, and the scenes with Lady Heather and Grissom were perfect. Billy and Melinda have great screen chemistry and its always good to see them perform together. One of the things I loved to most was the ending scene, how its left up to viewer interpretation just as it was in "Lady Heather's Box" if Grissom slept with Lady H.
I'm really digging Lauren Lee Smith as Riley (not to mention she sort of reminds me of Sofia ) and she seems to be fitting in well with the other cast members. The show is back to its roots (however I'm still finding the lighting too dark, and preferred it lightened up like Seasons 1-3).
My grade: A.
i think LOATR was probably the best character-oriented episode since Butterflied. the LP soundtrack fitted perfectly to the overall atmosphere and i really enjoyed the GSR angst. Grissom's conflicting emotions were shown in a great way. i loved his interaction with Heather and i feel like this is not the last time we see her on the show.
i wonder when is the case going to be continued and whether Grissom and Heather slept together. because i do believe it possible. Sara left him, Warrick died, he's burned out, doesn't sleep, suffers from depression. and here stands this beautiful ex of his offering him a sleep-over. i think Grissom could've been too tired, too weak to resist. if Heather allowed that to happen, i'm pretty sure they did it. cuz why else would he ask her to stay? they already talked both about the case and Grissom's feelings, had tea. the only thing left for them to do and what Grissom needed was connect physically.
in Ending Happy he said that 'sex without love is pointless' but he does have feelings for Heather (WP said it in an interview once). i don't know if he loves her per se but sex with Heather definitely wouldn't be the same as spending a night with a hooker.
while i'm quite certain Grissom would go for it, i have my doubts about Heather. she knows that Grissom loves Sara, and that the chances of her getting hurt again, are big. she knows he went to see her for some therapy and sex would be a part of it. i think this is what she was considering when she stood by the door. her decision to stay it quite telling, though. she had sex with her daughter's killer to get his DNA, would she sleep with a friend to help him? maybe she would.
It's definitely possible. With everything's that happened, and losing Sara, he's over the edge. When you fall that far, anything is possible as you've nothing left to lose.
I think there's been a dark vs light thing playing out in the GSR stuff since the EW picture this summer of Grissom standing in the dark, shining a light on Sara. Most of the cuts back and forth are between Sara in her light (literally) place and Grissom in the dark rain or in the darkness of LH's home.
I think the frequency of the cuts, across the epi and across settings, were to show us that Grissom can't get away from this. I'm not totally sure, but I also think the clips they played most were those where Sara was making it clear that she was relying on what he had said, saying he was right, etc. I think this epi was where he got, for the first time, that it was over and he was really the one responsible for ending it with his comment about relationships withering if they didn't move forward and his unwillingness or inability or whatever to make a decision about anything.
I don't know how they'll handle the LH stuff and am not sure I care, but I think TPTB have to fish or cut bait here. Either LH is a friend or a villain. If LH is a friend and truly "knows Grissom's heart," as she's claimed in the past, then boinking him is not appropriate by any stretch of the imagination. I mean, this is a woman who is now formally educated in psychology and obviously an expert when it comes to sexual psychology in particular. She's not some naive little 18 year old who thinks this might be helpful. If she did have sex with him, she did it for selfish purposes or to avenge his "sins" in LHB. And I'm not saying that as an LH basher ... as my fellow posters on the GSR board can tell you (most of them with some measure of disgust), I've always been pro-Heather. I just don't see how this epi did her that much good as a character (although I'm glad to see she seems to be in a better place.)
I've seen WP play smoldering Grissom and this wasn't it ... but given the fact that he had just figured out how profoundly he screwed up his relationship with Sara, I don't know that the lack of sizzle prior to the last scene means anything. We have no idea what desperate Grissom looks like ... this is a new side and I guess, therefore, anything goes. Normally I would agree with Adzik that we might see more of this scene - TPTB love LH flashbacks - although TPTB also love ambiguity in LH epis and complete disconnect between her epis and anything else that goes on in the show, so who knows?
Looks around confused...I'm in the GSR thread...how did I get.. here...?
I try very hard ... really, I do ... to keep GSR relationship stuff in that thread, but given the content of the epi, I don't think my post was out of line. I'm not trying to argue for my ship ... Grissom trying to figure out HTF he ended up making such a mess of his relationship is kinda the center of the epi. If the mods would prefer we not mention this relationship at all in this thread, I'm cool with that. I don't generally think it belongs in epi discussion either but ... well ... I don't have much to say about the unsolved murder that apparently wasn't related to s&m after all.
Britfan, what you've said makes me have a new idea: I still think Lady H saw clearly it's Grissom through the door, but she was stunned by how much different he looked as she opened the door and had a clear, good look at him. Like you said, that's perhaps what she meant when she said her first impression on Gris was that he's changed.
Adzix, I completely concur that LOATR is the best character-oriented episode since Butterflied. However I wish the LP soundtrack would have been made use of more effectively -- there are other parts of the song that, in my opinion, would have worked better with the episode. While I agree with many that the grumpy, tired Grissom may be a little painful to watch, I am happy to see that Grissom has finally shown some normal human emotions, as well as genuinely felt the need of human contact & love. (I was watching some old eppys of season 2 last night, and found Grissom during that era to be too egocentric)
But I am still stunned by his asking Lady H to stay at the end... is he this desperate for human contact? It's possible that he still has feeling for LH, but at that very moment I don't think this is why he asked her to stay. I actually see him as considering LH to be more like a best friend, a shoulder to cry on.
I thought the shot of Grissom on the bed, basically curled into a fetal position, eyes teary, asking her to stay with him, was probably the most profound moment I've seen on the show. The guy is gutted. We were told Grissom was going to be in crisis this season and that it would get dark but I never would've expected this.
And I was surprised the LP song wasn't more present. I was under the impression it was going to be woven throughout ... maybe it was and I just didn't pick up on it.
I totally interpreted this differently. I thought Riley said that she thought Greg was "more into hairpulling" and interpreted that as implying he liked having his hair pulled as opposed to being tied up. I could be mistaken.
And I interpreted it as a jab ... comparing him to a 7 year-old boy who pulled girls' hair to get their attention. Ah, well.
That's a good point about him being into having his hair pulled. I can definitely see Greg liking that. :lol:
She definitely wasn't insulting him, but was teasing him playfully. The actress herself said that their characters do that to each other in a friendly/brother-sister way.
Alrighty then, we all know the rules for discussing ship references, if it pertains to the episode in question like this one then it is allowed to be discussed. Just because the ep has aired doesn't mean that it stops being discussed in here, the ship moment came in the form of clips throughout and a discussion with LH. We [the mods] have no problem with this, if we did then there would be alot of people in trouble, including but not limited to LH/GG (or any) ship fans. IF a shipper was expanding beyond the episode then they would be asked to take it to the SC forum. But seeing as the views were in range of the episode it is allowed.
If you don't like the ship moment, say then "I didn't care for that part of the show" respectfully say why, making comments that can be deemed snarky or just plain un-necessary is really inapproperiate, and that is becoming disturbing as well as a trend that we [the mods] are hoping will not continue in the future.
Now lets move on and discussion this episode please. Thank you.
When was the last time we saw Greg "going overboard"? My recollection is it was 3 years ago (Kiss Kiss Bye Bye). It's about time the guy let loose a bit. You need to relieve tension at a crime scene or you'll go insane.
Hmm I was confused about the "hairpulling" part. Greg can't like having his hair pulled, otherwise he'd have cut it to a length where his partner could grab hold of it! There ain't nothin' there to grab at the moment!
Well, my hands are small, so I could manage. :lol:
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