Discussion in 'CSI: Crime Scene Investigation' started by Smokey, May 4, 2011.
The team didn't cover for him, Brass is the only person who covered for him.
Cath handed in the IA report and claimed Ray "acted in self defense" that's pretty much covering for him. Nick "You saved her life Ray, that's all that matters". He supported him too. All of the team were on his side throughout this episode:bolian:
Sooo you didn't find Brass WAY out of character? And you don't feel the team shouldn't have worked the case?
Grissom, Sara, or any of the lab rats haven't
NO Brass has been way out of line many times. And the team has been deeply involed in this from the onset so I totally thought they'd be a part of this and they were~
His daughter Ellie shunned him on and wants no part of him WHY?
He had an affair with a married women~
He was on "The List", in the day~
He was insubordinate with almost everyone at one time or another~
I was proud and honored to see him do this shinning deed:bolian:
This would've been a far, far better ending, IMO. I suppose it's possible that we have Ray being an unreliable narrator, and that the "memory" we saw Ray recalling to Brass at the end was actually a story manufactured by him to throw Brass off Gloria's scent. But the whole "Brass taking the flex-cuffs" thing really muddies the waters.
Hubby watched it this morning and hated it, for pretty much all the reasons cited in this thread.
Yes, Ray did kill in self-defense before - the other guy had a gun and was shooting at him (not already in cuffs). Catherine, Nick, and Greg have all killed to save others also. The difference (big difference!) is that in every other case there was imminent danger to themselves and/or others - they didn't uncuff a suspect then kill him.
While it may be "good" that Haskell is gone, the manner in which it happened is completely wrong. Law, courts, juries.. they all exist for a reason. No matter how bad someone's crimes are, they still need to go through due process.
Ray stepped over the line, taking the law into his own hands. It really bothers me that Brass covered it up (if what he did was right, why would it need a cover-up?), and everyone else seems to think that what he did was alright (although granted, they don't know the full extent of it).
I agree that most of the team can get away unscathed. Nick wasn't even involved in that part of the investigation, and as far as I know didn't see Haskell's body or the photos, so he didn't even know about the possibility of cuffs. Sara, and especially Catherine, suspected, but without the evidence, they can't know for sure. Brass and Ray are the only ones who know for sure what happened (and Gloria, perhaps - if so, no wonder she's scared of Ray), so the only ones who should be held responsible.
Sorry, but I think the best form of justice is standing trial and then being placed in prison. Even the death penalty if it's sanctioned. But the way Ray went about doing things was unjustified and there should be serious consequences for his actions. Brushing it under the rug like Brass did was a) not like him at all, and b) against every ethic and moral he's stood for during the past eleven seasons.
There seemed to be a lot of filler in this episode. Haskell was dead, so I didn't really see why it was necessary to dig into his past. He was a killer with some whacked out chemical imbalances going on. Really no different than Natalie Davis or the Blue Paint Killer.
I can see why TPTB did what they did with Brass, though. I have a feeling they're exhausted by all the lack of adoration and affection by viewers towards Ray, so they mixed the pot up a bit by throwing in someone else into this prolonged mess. It didn't work.
Thank you kasey82800, ladyhunter and speedystokesgirl for your feedback. Things don't appear as dire as I had imagined, except for maybe Langston and Ray. What a relief.
Acted in self defense because she didn't have the solid evidence of the flex cuffs to prove the marks around Haskells wrist. And without that key piece of evidence, all should could do was state it was self defense. Brass didn't tell her that he picked them up so what else could she have done? But she definitely questioned it as did Sara.
DW, I did watch this seasons finale, and every one but the 9th season. Geeno was telling me not to watch the S9 finale, that I first mentioned. I just meant that once I saw that Nick was not in it for the duration, I would maybe catch it at some later time, but haven't yet. I was saying originally that I had heard Ray had killed someone before, in response to your saying he had never killed anybody prior to this S11 finale. I remember Ray getting his clearance from the shooting review board in the S10 premiere. Hope that clarifies.
Yes, I definitely agree here, and with due process also. And I also agree about the reasons the others have killed. To my count Nick only killed 3 people, right? The McCann brothers and Jekyll, and all of those people were armed and he was saving lives. The same with Cath and Greg. I don't remember Warrick killing anybody, nor Sara or Grissom.
The stupid part of this is the fact that if Ray had never put himself in a position to get stabbed, the trial in Targets of Obsession would not have been necessary, as wasn't Haskell already serving 2 consecutive life sentences or something to that effect for all of the DJK murders? That 2nd trial is what seemed to be a waste of taxpayers money, and allowed him to figure out an escape.
I think when Nick said to Ray "You saved her life, that's all that matters", he was totally assuming that Ray had acted in self-defense, and was beating himself up over it. He wanted to make Ray feel better. I don't believe Nick had any reason to believe that Ray had acted otherwise, ie: murder. He was standing behind him as a friend at that point, but I don't believe Nick would cover up for Ray if he believed it was an intentional murder. After all, we know why he didn't shoot McKeen.
As for Brass, yes, I'm bummed out that he did what he did.
Very true. Brass sorta kinda admitted something to Catherine but she doesn't have proof of what went down. And like Grissom said 'you can't crunch evidence to fit a theory'.
Or could we say 'if the cuffs don't fit, you must acquit'? :shifty:
I seems that everyone has a reason and is certain that the "team" doesn't like and/or back up Ray, The writers have showed the fans something that I see every week, they in fact do. They've all embraced him and are 100% behind him, and I'm just going by what I've seen since he came on in S/9, and sorry bout' the mix-up ladybronco on the finale I messed up and guess didn't read it carefully. Since the Haskell fiasco they've all been over the moon in helping him even flying to L.A. to help him. This isn't my idea nor opnion but what has been shown~ I see no one answers what they'd do if their loved one was violated like his ex. Gloria was. What would you do?
I believe that they support Ray, but they flew to LA to catch a serial killer who began his spree in Vegas and whom they've been trying to catch for months, regardless of his relationship with Ray.
As for what everyone would do in the same case, probably everything that Ray did up until he had him in custody. At that point they would have left him to be arrested, not decided to kill him despite the fact that he was already subdued.
That being said, I do have my doubts about what Nick might have done had it been someone close to him. Those theories and others are in the Texan Charm thread.
Yes I agree with the exception of them always saying complementary adjectives to him constantly, that's not part of the job. They never say these things to say Hodges, Ecklie, Henry or others they work with. From what I've observed watching him/them, they've become tight friends with him. Not because of the cases, but they just like him. Especially Doc, Nick and Sara. I think Nick would have gone ballistic as well. And yes he did have him in the flex-cuffs, but he snapped and did go over the line, but I see why, that's all I'm saying~
Exactly. For Nick and Greg especially, they're supporting Ray now because they really can't believe that he would kill someone without it being absolutely necessary to save lives. The rest of the team hasn't seen the evidence of what really happened, so their support is based on what they do know, not the truth.
I would support my loved one, not traumatize them further by making them witness another brutal beating and murder. Gloria's mother said she was scared of Ray - and Ray just further proved she has good reason to be.
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