I know Horatio wanted to marry Marisol, but I believe she was murdered before they ever got inside to get married, because Eric came up the steps as they were getting ready to go in, which made Marisol very happy because her brother came to see her get married after the whole show saying he couldn't bless the union even though it was going to be Horatio she was marrying.
Horatio Caine CSI, Cop or Vigilante
- Thread starter ChaliQ
- Start date
I know Horatio wanted to marry Marisol, but I believe she was murdered before they ever got inside to get married, because Eric came up the steps as they were getting ready to go in, which made Marisol very happy because her brother came to see her get married after the whole show saying he couldn't bless the union even though it was going to be Horatio she was marrying.
Delynn
CSI Level One
I think maybe you missed "Rampage" the episode immediately following "Shock". Marisol and Horatio are having breakfast and he asks her if she is happy with her "new husband".
They were married.
She was shot later that day and died in the hospital. The gun we saw aimed at Marisol, Horatio and Eric as they were walking into the courthouse at the end of "Shock" was never fired.
Jag Lady
Lab Technician
The writers were pretty meticulous about the forensics and procedure in the early years but by S6 they were getting so sloppy it was laughable. One need look only as far as "Resurrection" when a guy in lockup not only has his own cell phone, he shows it to the CSI's. Hubby and I laughed ourselves sick when we saw that. Some booking clerk would have been fired over that.
As far as "Stand Your Ground", I know Rick Stetler "asked" Calleigh to refrain from field duty. It really depends on the department. But in RL Internal Affairs wouldn't have asked nicely. She would have been on desk duty pending the outcome of the investigation.
Oh, and there's no way IAB would have finished up that investigation in half a day, as it looked like. Nice to know old Rickypoo is quick and efficient in something.
As far as "Stand Your Ground", I know Rick Stetler "asked" Calleigh to refrain from field duty. It really depends on the department. But in RL Internal Affairs wouldn't have asked nicely. She would have been on desk duty pending the outcome of the investigation.
Oh, and there's no way IAB would have finished up that investigation in half a day, as it looked like. Nice to know old Rickypoo is quick and efficient in something.
hiphugger17
Coroner
Alamance
Oh, and there's no way IAB would have finished up that investigation in half a day, as it looked like. Nice to know old Rickypoo is quick and efficient in something.
Yeah but stuff like this is done for "TV time" sake. Just like DNA and other tests are not done in one day either. Still for sake of time and wrapping up the story things are sped up a lot of times.
Florry86
CSI Level Three
Also in RL Calleigh wouldn't have been wandering all around the departement or the city as a homeless or as a puppy dog looking for a warm and welcoming home :lol:
I agree with hiphugger17, but, as you mentioned, it was a nice touch :thumbsup:Oh, and there's no way IAB would have finished up that investigation in half a day, as it looked like. Nice to know old Rickypoo is quick and efficient in something.
HockeyInMiami
Victim
Isn't Brazil a little out of Horatio's jurisdiction?
Also, committing murder twice outside of the job would usually earn someone two life sentences, maybe even the death penalty in some jurisdictions (sad, but true). Who is he, Mr. I'm-Immune-To-Law-Even-Though-I-Enforce-It?
Also, committing murder twice outside of the job would usually earn someone two life sentences, maybe even the death penalty in some jurisdictions (sad, but true). Who is he, Mr. I'm-Immune-To-Law-Even-Though-I-Enforce-It?
inthewind
CSI Level Two
See the previous page, where you said the same thing. I'll respond the same as I did then.
In the version of Rio that I watched, Horatio and Eric didn't have their department's authorization; however, they DID have extradition papers to return Riaz to Miami for trial, so obviously they had the authorization of Miami's judicial system.
Brazil's crooked officials didn't accept them. Ray was murdered, Riaz had his hooks into Ray, Jr. Horatio killed Riaz defending Eric's life; he killed Matos in defense of Ray, Jr.
In what court system is that considered murder?
HockeyInMiami
Victim
Okay, yeah, now I understand that part (thank you, and for some reason my browser wasn't showing my comment on the other page), but I was also talking about when he killed his dad in New York.
inthewind
CSI Level Two
We've never seen that whole backstory, but in several different episodes, it was clearly stated his dad was killed in defense of his mother, who was killed by his dad.
Again, not murder.
hiphugger17
Coroner
This storyline is something they kind of mentioned but haven't dedicated much time to. I would've prefered we got to know more about this and maybe see Horatio having to deal with it now than the whole Julia/Kyle storyline. Don't know exactly how it would be done since this is something that should be in his past and dealt with, but the writers always know how to create drama so I'm sure they could think of something. Anyway, I think it's an interesting bit of info from his past and I'd be interested to know more about it.
Solitaire
CSI Level Two
It would be interesting to learn more about this incident. We have only heard little bits about it, but I agree that this wasnt' murder on H's part.
With regards to Rio- I also agree that their intention was to extradite. They went with the papers to the official sources to do that. Ok, maybe H killed Riaz in self defence, but my main problem with that storyline was what was Eric doing up on that helipad on his own with Riaz? He obviously wasn't going to talk to him. Once they couldn't get Riaz officially, they started on other plans
But I didn't like any of the Rio story so...........
Della
Police Officer
Concerning Horatio and Delko flying off to Rio to bring back Riaz:
Um, the thing that doesn't make sense to me are the extradition papers. Um, hadn't Riaz already been caught by Horatio and Delko, but because Riaz made a deal with another Agency that was the reason he was sent back to Brazil? Wasn't this revealed when the black guy visited Horatio at Marisol's graveside? If that was the case then wouldn't whatever case Horatio'd had against Riaz have been dropped? Null and void?
So, again, if that was the case, then how did Horatio manage to get those extradition papers for Riaz in the first place?
In answer to the question of the thread:
There is no doubt in my mind that Horatio Caine is a vigilante... one who just so happens to be a cop. The badge does not exonerate him for what he's done, because that badge does not give him the power to administer his own from of punishment. As said before in a fair few other threads, Horatio Caine is employed to uphold the law, he is not employed to administer the punishments.
Also, Horatio not only kiled Riaz, but he also murdered a member of the Mala Noche gang whilst that member was injured, unarmed and in a position of no threat whatsoever to Horatio. Horatio also, off-screen, at the very least, beat up a suspected Paedophile. I'm assuming (giving Horatio the benefit of doubt here) that the evidence Horatio had managed to get together against this suspect hadn't been good enough to convict him. Well, that's Horatio's bad, not the system's. So, I think it can be said that just because Horatio didn't do a thorough enough job in the first place, he then decides to ignore the court's decision, the law of the land, and administer his own form of punishment.
Um, all in all, isn't the definition of a vigilante someone who takes the law into their own hands and administers their own form of punishment? I'd say there's more than enough evidence to prove that Horatio is most definitely a vigilante.
Still, it's a crying shame that the writers can't be convicted for committing the manslaughter of a nicely crafted, heroic character.
Um, the thing that doesn't make sense to me are the extradition papers. Um, hadn't Riaz already been caught by Horatio and Delko, but because Riaz made a deal with another Agency that was the reason he was sent back to Brazil? Wasn't this revealed when the black guy visited Horatio at Marisol's graveside? If that was the case then wouldn't whatever case Horatio'd had against Riaz have been dropped? Null and void?
So, again, if that was the case, then how did Horatio manage to get those extradition papers for Riaz in the first place?
In answer to the question of the thread:
There is no doubt in my mind that Horatio Caine is a vigilante... one who just so happens to be a cop. The badge does not exonerate him for what he's done, because that badge does not give him the power to administer his own from of punishment. As said before in a fair few other threads, Horatio Caine is employed to uphold the law, he is not employed to administer the punishments.
Also, Horatio not only kiled Riaz, but he also murdered a member of the Mala Noche gang whilst that member was injured, unarmed and in a position of no threat whatsoever to Horatio. Horatio also, off-screen, at the very least, beat up a suspected Paedophile. I'm assuming (giving Horatio the benefit of doubt here) that the evidence Horatio had managed to get together against this suspect hadn't been good enough to convict him. Well, that's Horatio's bad, not the system's. So, I think it can be said that just because Horatio didn't do a thorough enough job in the first place, he then decides to ignore the court's decision, the law of the land, and administer his own form of punishment.
Um, all in all, isn't the definition of a vigilante someone who takes the law into their own hands and administers their own form of punishment? I'd say there's more than enough evidence to prove that Horatio is most definitely a vigilante.
Still, it's a crying shame that the writers can't be convicted for committing the manslaughter of a nicely crafted, heroic character.
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Heroic character that we all love but written with flaws, very human ones.Whilst in the position of seeing violence and victims all day/40hrs a week for years on end and that brings out the humanity of Horatio-just not always the clean,perfect version everyone seems to want...
Della
Police Officer
It's not a question of what everyone seems to want, ladyjr8, it's actually what the badge represents/the job Horatio is employed to do that demands a squeaky clean approach to gathering evidence and towards the treatment of suspects. If seeing such violence and victims for such a long period of time prompts Horatio to become a vigilante on behalf of those victims then it really is time for him to hang up his badge because he should not be operating under the guise of a law enforcement officer when administering his own form of punishments ... that, or he should face the consequences of his actions - because either way, whether he wears a badge or not, he has broken the law a fair few times now.
Also, cold blooded murder and committing, at the very least, GBH (Grievous Bodily Harm) is not the humane side of Horatio Caine. Caring for a victim is.
*sigh*
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Delynn
CSI Level One
I think it's pretty obvious that not everyone loves Horatio. But I understand and greatly appreciate what you're saying, ladyjr8. You can't see what he's seen and experienced in his life and not eventually find the dark side a possible answer. He is human and far from perfect.
I think the two actions, the man in Rio and the suspect in Miami were simply the writer's way of telling you that Horatio had reached the breaking point.
Although while Horatio is a law enforcement officer in the U.S., I would argue that he was hardly in Rio in a law enforcement capacity on that second trip. He was sent their to be murdered.
Marisol being killed. Finding out about Kyle. Trying to deal with Kyle, Julia and Ron. Being extradited to Brazil, only to find out that Julia set him up and put him in a position to be killed. Left to his own devices to fight his way out and get back home. Then he finds Calleigh has been kidnapped. His life and team more out of control each day. I believe the killing of the guy in Rio was the writer's way of indicating Horatio had reached the end of his rope.
Did they go too far? Possibly. That said, Horatio is certainly not the first, and I doubt he'll be the last, character who represents the moral center in a series who has failed a test or two. I've seen more that one lead character kill someone under questionable circumstances for what they felt was a "just cause". It's called drama.
The writers apparently wanted to take Horatio as dark as they could. They tested the waters and found out that it was unacceptable to the fans and they are slowly rehabilitating the character.
For some fans the writers went too far and Horatio will never regain their respect. A chance the writers took. For others, they understand that he is human, he made some serious but very human mistakes, and they are prepared to give him a chance to make restitution.
In the end I think whether you're prepared to give the character a chance at rehabilitation is directly related to whether you like, or have ever liked, the character.
My profession causes me to interact with a number of law enforcement officers. I can promise you they are completely and totally human. Their intentions are rightous, but they make their share of mistakes because they are human. They are doing the best they can and I've seen them become extremely frustrated trying to deal with man's inhumanity to their fellow man.
I respect and like Horatio. Like anyone who is in my actual life, there are times they do things that I don't like. But it doesn't change my belief in their basic core decency and humanity. I plan on giving Horatio a chance to find his way back. I think he's well on his way there! :thumbsup:
Oh, and one more time. Horatio did not murder Riaz. It was self-defense. It's interesting to me that a lot of people who watched that scene failed to see the knife Riaz had in his hand.
Horatio and Eric went to Rio with extradition papers for Riaz. They did not go there intending to "murder" him. Their intent was to bring him back to the U.S. to stand trial.
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