Grade 'To What End?'

[Country233]

Is Bobby still going to go to jail? I can't imagine how he wouldn't seeing how he did kill two people...even though they were trying to kill him as well.

I got the impression he was. I think flack said there were mitigating factors that might mean a shorter sentence, but I think the final scene was just him recognising that in some cases you have to allow a little leeway for people about to go to jail. which was a nice idea but didn't stop it being a tad puke-inducing.

I'll take puke inducing over the ripping out of hair episodes I've seen of Csi Miami lately...

I like Miami and enjoyed the one last night. I tend to look at Miami as "crime light" since it is brighter and such. I also like some of the characters on it more than the people on NY.

 

[talkingtocactus]

^ me too!

 

[Ninja0980]

I got the impression he was. I think flack said there were mitigating factors that might mean a shorter sentence, but I think the final scene was just him recognising that in some cases you have to allow a little leeway for people about to go to jail. which was a nice idea but didn't stop it being a tad puke-inducing.

I'll take puke inducing over the ripping out of hair episodes I've seen of Csi Miami lately...

I like Miami and enjoyed the one last night. I tend to look at Miami as "crime light" since it is brighter and such. I also like some of the characters on it more than the people on NY.

Just of late, the storylines revolve around helpless women and H swooping into the rescue...gets old fast...

 

[rahkira]

I thought the scenes with closeups of the different clown face art to be fun. The story itself was okay, but once we learned about the billionaire's existence, it was pretty predictable. I was fascinated to see how much David James Elliott has aged since JAG, so I went to IMDB; I can't believe he's fifty years old! I guess my image of him has always remained that of Harm. But then, I also couldn't believe how much James Marsters had aged when I saw him in Syfy's Caprica. Again, IMDB has him listed as just two years younger than DJE. :wtf: He'll always be Spike in my mind's eye. How time has flown since both JAG and Buffy! :lol:

I have a great deal of respect for and enjoy greatly Gary Sinise's acting talent, but I think they also need to put Sela Ward's considerable talents to better use. But, historically, all three CSIs have neglected their female stars in favor of glorifying the manly skills of their male leads. Especially Miami. I was watching another CBS drama last week, and the confessed killer smugly claimed he'd never be convicted by a jury, and my first thought was "Don't let Horatio hear that; maybe they could do a crossover with CSI: Miami." H has become such a total renegade on that show!

Nearly forgot: I loved that Don Flack got a lot of face time. Terrific actor, terrific character. And those gorgeous blue eyes - sigh. However, the flying leap off the stairwell landing seemed a little unrealistic; both guys should have suffered more damage than we saw!

 

[Robin]

Finally had the time to watch it online today. It was an enjoyable episode. The only comment I can think up is, "It's a bird, it's a plane, no...it's Don Flack jumping down several stories onto another man!" I'm surprised no one broke anything.

I really enjoy Ron Glass. I was curious to see where he fit in when I saw his name in the opening credits. He did very well as the Clown Registry guy.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

Considering half the hare-brained antics that other fellow CSIs have done, I am no longer surprised or shocked by the actions of Don Flack Jr. Honestly, Mac and Horatio still has Flack beat in this area of crazy stunts, Horatio more than anyone else, that guy is just simply invincible and defies the law of time and physics. And if you need more comparison and evidence that Flack is actually tamed in his actions, watch Numb3rs and the character Colby Granger. Colby's jump from a high balcony onto a moving trunk and then falling off to the ground is even more ridiculous than Flack's, it's a miracle that he didn't break anything! And Colby's always doing crazy things like that!

As much as I dislike that Mac seems so cold in this situation, I can't exactly blame him. Yes Bobby's situation is harsh and it is very unfair, but unfortunately this happens to people, he's not the only one nor will he be the last, and if the people like Mac who does this job get attached or feeling the pain every time, then they can't do their jobs properly. People in this business have been burned out because morality hits them on the head or their conscience breaks them down, and the issue is that Mac can't afford that, and as a soldier, he has seem enough atrocities to know how to push that feeling of emotion away so that he can keep on doing his job. For us as fans, it's hard to swallow these emotions or understand why Mac would be so ignorant of these feelings because we feel these emotions and we are sympathetic, and yes, Mac has a self-righteous streak in him that I always wanted to smack him for, but getting emotionally attached or allowing feelings to come through would open a door for future leaks of emotion and Mac is not one to allow that to happen knowing that it would effect his job and his duty. I've seen people like Mac in this line of business, it's not that they don't care, it's they just have to turn it off or else they can't go through with what they must do. It sounds evil and not fair, and it isn't fair, but sometimes it has to be this way.

FINALLY! I am SO glad that Eddie Cahill got his chance to shine! He is a brilliant actor and it's a shame that he never gets much time on the show, but that's the downside of being the detective role, but when he gets the material, he really delivers!! I wish there are more Flack-episodes every year instead of just one! It's always great for me to see Flack getting the chance to show his more emotional and softer side. Some people just see him as this arrogant obnoxious jerk, but Flack is not like that at all, he is sarcastic and witty, but he's not a jerk. Flack on the inside is an incredibly sensitive and caring person, and he has shown that numerous times, and not to mention he is incredibly loyal and dedicated. He's a good man and a caring man, nice to see that side being shown!

Overall, a great episode, I love it! Eddie was amazing!

 

[La_Guera]

I'm sorry, but there is a difference between compartmentalizing emotions out of necessity and being willfully blind and dismissive of the cost of justice to ordinary folks who never signed on to make those sacrifices. Mac was the latter. If he had said, "Sometimes, this job and this world are unfair, then I could have respected his point of view because at least he would have acknowledged the unfairness, but instead, he chose to handwave it all away as Bobby's moral obligation to do the right thing. Because you know, everyone should think like Mac does and never complain about anything EVER.

At least Flack recognizes that most people don't function that way.

 

[Grissom rules]

Good episode to start the year.A- for me.The vase was ok-I've seen better.I liked the fact that Flack was personally in a way involved with the murder.The final scene was so sweet...Jo's scenes with her ex-husband were also nice.

 

[BauerAlmeida]

I'm sorry, but there is a difference between compartmentalizing emotions out of necessity and being willfully blind and dismissive of the cost of justice to ordinary folks who never signed on to make those sacrifices. Mac was the latter. If he had said, "Sometimes, this job and this world are unfair, then I could have respected his point of view because at least he would have acknowledged the unfairness, but instead, he chose to handwave it all away as Bobby's moral obligation to do the right thing. Because you know, everyone should think like Mac does and never complain about anything EVER.

At least Flack recognizes that most people don't function that way.

The way I see it, some people simply feels more than others. Flack has always been more sensitive and in tune with people than Mac.

I don't like Mac's attitude, his self-righteousness has irked me a lot before, but there are people out there who does this job long enough that they are simply just detached to those emotional feelings and sacrifices. Maybe it is rather dismissive but I do understand Mac's view, complaining is not gonna change anything and doing the right thing is important.

 

[Ninja0980]

I'm sorry, but there is a difference between compartmentalizing emotions out of necessity and being willfully blind and dismissive of the cost of justice to ordinary folks who never signed on to make those sacrifices. Mac was the latter. If he had said, "Sometimes, this job and this world are unfair, then I could have respected his point of view because at least he would have acknowledged the unfairness, but instead, he chose to handwave it all away as Bobby's moral obligation to do the right thing. Because you know, everyone should think like Mac does and never complain about anything EVER.

At least Flack recognizes that most people don't function that way.

The way I see it, some people simply feels more than others. Flack has always been more sensitive and in tune with people than Mac.

I don't like Mac's attitude, his self-righteousness has irked me a lot before, but there are people out there who does this job long enough that they are simply just detached to those emotional feelings and sacrifices. Maybe it is rather dismissive but I do understand Mac's view, complaining is not gonna change anything and doing the right thing is important.

Indeed, but the problem is that Mac in so many cases refuses to acknowledge the risks or sacrifices some people make in doing the right thing. He did so in this episode.
IMO, I would like to see the DA from "Enough" come back. She's been one of the only people that has put Mac in his place when he's needed it.

 

[Elwood21]

Behind in commenting on a few eps .

Mebbe after this one, I'll eventually get to catching up enough to comment on last week's ep as well before this week's rolls around :lol:.

So, just going on what I recall after the fact of this one.

I liked the opening of this ep, stylisitically, all the dark, monochromatic tones, contrasting the clown as he went on his way. Some nice shots too.

The clowns all lined up on the curb was also fun.

I also liked that it started off with Flack/Mac "...don't say anything. It's just better if ya don't say anything," and Flack's comment to a clown, "If you squirt me with that thing I will shoot you," also got a smile.

As for the story. A few plot holes, but meh. My overall feeling on this ep is far more tempered by the sense that it fell back onto a few old habits, instead of continuing on an upswing. But, halfway thru a season, it's hard to push.

Some of the humor seemed forced, or at least somewhat laden (ie. "do you wear sneakers inside your clown shoes). And while I liked that there was a rather non-cooperative unhappy clown to complicate matters, and that all involved in that series of exchanges did well, it was still not the most seamless transfer of plot info. The eggheads were fun though, and who knew there could be such a thing as a clown registery. Still, better to keep track of the buggers than let them roam anonymously .

It was fun to see DJE guest, and the interaction that Russ and Jo had. If the spoilers hold true, it will be good to see him again, and sure to figure a bit more in an ep featuring the backstory of Ellie's biological mom.

I think AB's "...we've heard -nothing at all about you..." was among her better moments of late. Far better than the later DL/Edna scene (durst I call it a triangle...? )

I was hoping Russ would be a bit more involved in the case, but in that sense, he was quite seamlessly involved, so while I'd have liked to have seen more of him, how he was written in I'd count as a success.

Renton was an interesting character for NY to run with. Nice to see.

Flack. Dear Flack. Nice to see him get a more involved storyline, and purely case related. However, they surely took him into territory I dislike, wherein Mac most of all is dragged most frequently, and not for the better. Flack solo'd on his final scene, just as Mac did in Sangre Por Sangre, had an interesting dilemma malleted with linear narrative, and horrendous lines, and worse, had the most ridiculous flying scene inserted into a chase sequence NY has troubled themselves with in recent memory :lol:. A three ring circus it is then.

While some discussion has centered on how Flack, for some, was more sympathetic in how he presented the moral issues, I gotta step back a unit to call it out on the show. Flack as a character gets held to the same standards as Mac does, and what transpired was no more pleasant to sit thru just cos Eddie got some lines instead of Gary.

What I keep coming back to in instances like this is NY's chronic insistence in using characters to narrate the intended moral read of an episode. Dear NY: it's great you sometimes venture into grayer territory. Why not just let the characters and story sit for the viewer, instead of perhaps fearing that one might misconstrue the Goodness and Integrity of your protagonists.

NY has used Mac that way most often, but also Stella, Sheldon, and now Flack. The others less so.

Hearing Flack utter things like "sometimes god doesn't answer your prayers" and "thieves get rich and saints get shot" had me cringing long before the final commiseration scene between Flack and Mac. That final scene also started out with promise, in that it seemed both might take a step back to look at what they're taught to do, what the NYPD expect them to do, what the fallout in this case was, but, the latter half on sacrifices and motivations and What Is Right felt like pure narrative instead of character revelations.

Couple that with the saccharine ending of Flack taking Renton to the diner to meet his son for the first time for ten minutes, the inclusion of God in conversational morality and the preachiness of what is right, and this ep slipped from being rather entertaining to "holy crap, I've been sucked back into the worst compilation of earlier seasons." Add in Flack's hang time, and it was also among the most ridiculous. Add in DL, and it was exasperating.

It started off very pretty and moody, got a bit goofy and clunky, knitted itself together for a bit, and then just base-jumped like Flack into realms best forgotten.

Call it a C+.

So. On a different note. Danny is now shorn enough for him and Flack both :lol:. Actually, it's kinda nice they changed up Danny's look, dunno if that's Carmine's or the show's idea, but eh, fun.

Indeed, but the problem is that Mac in so many cases refuses to acknowledge the risks or sacrifices some people make in doing the right thing. He did so in this episode.

IMO, I would like to see the DA from "Enough" come back. She's been one of the only people that has put Mac in his place when he's needed it.

I don't disagree, which is why, while not the best ep, that this season's Damned If You Do was welcome. That said, Enough is still one of the better episodes NY has done.

 

[talkingtocactus]

I also liked that it started off with Flack/Mac "...don't say anything. It's just better if ya don't say anything," and Flack's comment to a clown, "If you squirt me with that thing I will shoot you," also got a smile.

the paraphrase from the godfather was quite good too

Some of the humor seemed forced, or at least somewhat laden (ie. "do you wear sneakers inside your clown shoes). And while I liked that there was a rather non-cooperative unhappy clown to complicate matters, and that all involved in that series of exchanges did well, it was still not the most seamless transfer of plot info. The eggheads were fun though, and who knew there could be such a thing as a clown registery. Still, better to keep track of the buggers than let them roam anonymously .

i knew! because their faces are so unique and individual, they all register them so that any new clowns can't do the same one.

i kind of agree about the humour but i dunno, i quite liked it anyway, it reminded me of s2 where there was more in-team humorous banter, and although it was a little cheesy/forced, i'd rather have it than not.

I think AB's "...we've heard -nothing at all about you..." was among her better moments of late.

agreed!

an interesting dilemma malleted with linear narrative, and horrendous lines, and worse, had the most ridiculous flying scene inserted into a chase sequence NY has troubled themselves with in recent memory :lol:.

:guffaw::guffaw:

Dear NY: it's great you sometimes venture into grayer territory. Why not just let the characters and story sit for the viewer, instead of perhaps fearing that one might misconstrue the Goodness and Integrity of your protagonists.

yes please!

Indeed, but the problem is that Mac in so many cases refuses to acknowledge the risks or sacrifices some people make in doing the right thing. He did so in this episode.

IMO, I would like to see the DA from "Enough" come back. She's been one of the only people that has put Mac in his place when he's needed it.

I don't disagree, which is why, while not the best ep, that this season's Damned If You Do was welcome. That said, Enough is still one of the better episodes NY has done.

i agree! i liked jordan in s4 too, i liked when he said some people would rather be out of work than dead and she said "that can be arranged" - i like it when people stand up to him!