Grade 'To What End?'

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by vegaslights, Jan 7, 2011.

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How would you grade To What End?

  1. A+

    8 vote(s)
    25.8%
  2. A

    6 vote(s)
    19.4%
  3. A-

    4 vote(s)
    12.9%
  4. B+

    4 vote(s)
    12.9%
  5. B

    3 vote(s)
    9.7%
  6. B-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. C+

    1 vote(s)
    3.2%
  8. C

    2 vote(s)
    6.5%
  9. C-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. D+

    1 vote(s)
    3.2%
  11. D

    1 vote(s)
    3.2%
  12. D-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. F

    1 vote(s)
    3.2%
  1. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    ^ cheers :)

    *fingers crossed* ;)

    seriously i think mac's great, but i suspect as a role it might be getting to the end of the road and i think that can't be a bad thing really. but that's just my personal view, i don't know whether it's remotely close to reality!
     
  2. Lori K.

    Lori K. Pathologist

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    Cant put my finger on it but yes to both questions. I know that Gary has a busy personal life with his commitment to the troops, and even though he starts his concerts or at some point injects the Baba o'reilly theme song as reference to the show when I see him in interviews talking about that commitment or talking about CSI he seems more eager and excited when he talks about what is going on in his personal life. Maybe he is getting burned out, having to film sometimes at midnight and keeping crazy hours. Now that he is so involved in other things he may be getting like Peterson and wanting to call it a day. His contract is up this season we will see I guess. As for Mac he seems like he is just going through the motions. Going from one coworker to the next injecting his lines always in control. Smiling at the jokes, furrowing his brow when deemed necessary.:lol: I remember how excited he got in season four during the cabbie killer reign and he and Stella were riding in the boss and all of a sudden he blurts out "I know how he picks them". He slams the car in reverse and got all excited driving backwards as he explains his theory to Stella.:lol: And how he went flying down the steps when Peyton got her boo-boo on her head:rolleyes: Then there was "Snow day" when he and Stella were caught in the lab and he was maneuvering a way out of the mess they were in. He seemed like he was really into it! Maybe not watching for awhile makes things more noticable when you do tune in again. Just my personal observation.:)
     
  3. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

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    I gave this one another B. The emphasis on Flack and Jo's interaction with her ex saved it for me.

    The premise of dressing up like a clown and getting other clowns to show up was a good idea. It's too bad they found the dumped clown costume so fast. I really hate it that they always come up with some obscure piece of evidence that a machine locates and it ends up only coming from one source. I still think good old detective work is better than all the outrageous technology and one of a kind evidence.

    I agree with Faylinn that the interaction between Jo and her ex was good, but they should stay divorced. It would make Jo look like an idiot if she had all of these logical and valid reasons for why they split up and then ended up going back to him. I didn't get the vibe that she was still in love with him despite all of the reasons they divorced. I'd love to see DJE back as Russ but keep the rekindled romance out of it. Their dynamic as a divorced couple where he wants her back but she's not having any of it is good. I don't really get how having her ex-husband wanting her back and her mom trying to set her up with someone makes Jo narcissistic, but whatever.

    Lindsay is so damn awkward. Her whole, "we've heard nothing about you," just illustrates how socially stunted she is. Then add the stupid lines about being jealous of EDNA and I just wanted to punch her in the face. Yes, I get that she was joking about the EDNA thing, but to me it's just one more thing to show how clingy and insecure she is when it comes to Danny. Plus shoehorning in the DANNY AND LINDSAY ARE TEH MARRIEDZ . . . LULZ! stuff into an episode is always lame. I get that there are 15 rabid DL fans out there who keep bombarding the news sites and the network because they need to be reminded every episode that DL are together and have a kid, but for the rest of us it's just unnecessary drivel.

    I really liked the whole, "do you wear sneakers under clown shoes," conversation and how Hawkes ended up confused. I also loved Adam on the phone with the clown registry dude and then showing his frustration to Mac. And then when Mac and Jo meet the dude I laughed too.

    The end was schlocky, but I get why Flack did what he did. He did it not only for Bobby and his family, but to give himself some peace.
     
  4. Poppet

    Poppet Police Officer

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    It was an OK episode but nothing really stood out. They definatley need to stop with the trace which only has one source stuff - dust with a bone/ash/cement mix traced to only one place is totally unbelievable, surely after 911 that mix could be in quite a few places in New York.
     
  5. La_Guera

    La_Guera Lab Technician

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    Until the closing scene, I thought Jo's ex-husband was the smarmiest character of the episode, but Mac just couldn't resist the need to whip out his infuriatingly-patronizing binary morality.

    Mac's right. The police do need people like Bobby to make those sacrifices in order to see justice done. They need good officers like Flack to convince frightened but decent people to make choices that are counter to their best interests. Sometimes, despite all the forensic miracles in the world, you need an eyewitness who is willing to stand in open court and point out the criminals. So, this is not a case of Mac being wrong. It's a case of him being willfully blind and obnoxiously smug.

    As a Marine and a police officer who has made tremendous sacrifices, he should understand the weight of the sacrifices the department often asks innocent people--who never took an oath to serve the department, mind--to make at great personal cost, and yet, he seems to understand it only on the most clinical level. He recognizes that the department asked Bobby to surrender life as he knew it, and he also realizes that it carries a great cost to Bobby, but he recognizes this on only the most detached intellectual level; he does not seem to know or care what that truly means at gut-level, nor does he exhibit much sympathy for Ainsley or Bobby's son, who had the decision to sacrifice taken from them by Bobby's cowardice in refusing to say goodbye, and who suffered no less intensely for that lack of choice. For Mac, all that matters is achievement of the desired end, and the hurt inflicted upon innocent others to attain justice and his satisfaction is regrettable but incidental.

    To be fair to Mac, Flack doesn't seem to grasp the magnitude of the sacrifices he asks of witnesses, either, until Ainsley vents her spleen and her anguish onto his abashed head and he sees Bobby's son, a son Bobby has never seen because Flack pressured him into doing the right thing, but at least he grasps it. He understands that he and his colleagues are often in the sordid business of manipulating people's consciences to get the conviction and closure for someone else, that sometimes, it's dirty and underhanded and painful and unfair, that perhaps they ask too much in return for precious little. Mac has no inkling of this because since justice is all he cares for, he believes it should be all that matters to anyone else. He's blinkered by his own formidable self-righteousness, and it's maddening.

    I think Flack took one look at that little boy and understood the quantum enormity of what he had asked of Bobby, of what Bobby's decision to do the right thing had cost him. Unlike Flack, who got pats on the back and the satisfaction of bringing down the Foley brothers, Bobby was rewarded for his bravery with the erasure of his existence, relocation, and no chance to see his child or his girlfriend again. Not only that, but Flack's "asking"(as he noted to Mac, they don't really ask so much as cudgel them into compliance)assured that a child would grow up without his father. All because he had the misfortune to witness a murder. He recognized then and there not just the damage to Bobby, but the staggering collateral damage as well.

    Mac never recognizes or acknowledges this damage, and so, wrapped snugly in his binary worldview and fixed morality, he spouts platitudes about justice and free will and blathers witlessly on, deaf to the depth of Flack's internal struggle. Justice served is good enough for him, after all, and so it must be sufficient for Flack as well.

    God, but Mac is an insufferable, self-absorbed cockwaffle, and writing this has inspired the urge to punch him in the face.

    Flack, however, is more human and decent than he could ever hope to be, and I want to hug him until the sadness disappears.

    Dear Clown Registry Guy,

    You were such a sublime asshole. I hated you so much that I think I love you. You were so awesome that you took away the bilious nausea inspired by that flat, pointless, placatory DL scene with EDNA. Perhaps you could offer them charisma lessons?

    Guera

    A decent episode brought down a hair by Mac's proselytizing.

    B-
     
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2011
  6. Dreamboat

    Dreamboat Rookie

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    I loved this episode, but I'm a Flack fan so I'm biased.

    When it started and I saw the clown I was thinking of Bill Murray in the movie Quick Change.

    The Good Stuff:

    1. I'm usually not that interested in the science stuff but I did like the scene with Mac and Lindsay and the yellow gel they shot. I also liked the way Danny got a print from the white clown paint. (And what was up with Danny's hair? Did he join the military or something? Is he going bald and cutting off the rest to hide it?)

    2. I liked the continuity of Danny's and Flack's comments when they were outside the clown's apartment door.

    3. I really liked the way David James Elliot played his character. I always liked him on JAG and he didn't seem any different.

    The Not-So-Good Stuff:

    1. If Bobby had two guns why shoot the guy with the one that ties back to Memphis and him?

    2. So Bobby had two days to get up to New York, find out about the clown performing at the upcoming party, locate the specific clown (whom even the victim's wife didn't know about), set up the other clowns online, etc. This guy is some kind of mastermind but leaves his prints behind? Yeah, right.

    3. Concerning the Clown Registry, since when are subpoenas delivered to the premises instead of the cop? That made no sense.

    4. That leap was insane. I realize Flack wasn't that high up, but the way he "flew" was crazy. You wouldn't jump that way even if there was water under you.

    Even with all the improbabilities I still really enjoyed it.
     
  7. Axatullux

    Axatullux Lab Technician

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    I know. Though it's great for action, in real life, Flack would likely be gravely injured or killed from that height. In real life, very few people ever escape falling unscathed from such heights, especially if it's onto a hard surface such as an alley. 30 feet, or around three stories, is all you get. Over 30 feet, your chances of surviving fall exponentially and these action movie leaps often paint a false impression of high jumps.

    Not even landing in a pile of garbage will spare you from a painful impact at best.

    There is a reason pilots or air passengers are world famous for surviving thousands of feet in free fall.
     
  8. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    la_guera - i <3 mac really but i completely agree with what you said about how abstract he makes these things. it is something i've noticed before and it always bugs me. often mac really does seem to "get" the issues around the stuff he deals with and actually connects with people involved, but often he just seems to have his head in the clouds...
     
  9. Geeno

    Geeno Pathologist

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    I really like the episode. The story is something I haven't seen before. It is a slow but interesting episode. Thanks to FBI's quick involvement and connection to Flack's past. It has some fun moments. I laughed when the clown manager called Jo "Kentucky"! :guffaw:

    Nice to see another Flack episode because Eddie Cahill is a very good actor. In fairness, Flack's chase scene wasn't that bad. It's only one story high, about 10 feet. Actually, I can do it myself (in two ways). It only looked funny because he was so stiff. He's like a lifeless body thrown out of the building. Also, the camera angle looked he came from a much higher place. Honestly, it's nothing compared to Ryan Wolfe of Miami when he attempted to jump off a bridge from a recent episode.

    I'm relieved that Jo/Russ encounter was light. They were fun to watch, no unnecessary drama. I found Adam to be annoying in this episode. He's working for Mac for almost 6 years and still he can't talk straight to him? That scene with the phone and the blueprint scene on 'Death House' are the only times I found Adam annoying.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2011
  10. JoeyDC

    JoeyDC Rookie

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    A+

    I would give it a triple A just because Eddie Cahill was beyond excellent. He finally got a decent opportunity in season seven to delve into his character, and it was phenomenal how he portrayed and switched Don Flack's diverse character attributes like sarcasm, toughness and sudden empathy with such a lightness. I was overwhelmed by his incredible ability as an actor and I do believe he is outgrowing CSI: NY. Brilliant performance!

    Once again the lack of Danny Messer was more than obvious and although I love Flack/Messer scenes, it is beyond my understanding why such a gifted actor as Carmine is so neglected and underused this season. Aside from "Out Of The Sky" he had no decent and individual air time at all!
     
  11. Ninja0980

    Ninja0980 Police Officer

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    Is Bobby still going to go to jail? I can't imagine how he wouldn't seeing how he did kill two people...even though they were trying to kill him as well.
     
  12. Country233

    Country233 Police Officer

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    I wondered the same thing. I would say killing the dude in Memphis was self defense, but idk about the other guy.
     
  13. talkingtocactus

    talkingtocactus Coroner

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    I got the impression he was. I think flack said there were mitigating factors that might mean a shorter sentence, but I think the final scene was just him recognising that in some cases you have to allow a little leeway for people about to go to jail. which was a nice idea but didn't stop it being a tad puke-inducing.
     
  14. Country233

    Country233 Police Officer

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    True it was puke-inducing.
     
  15. Ninja0980

    Ninja0980 Police Officer

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    I'll take puke inducing over the ripping out of hair episodes I've seen of Csi Miami lately...
     

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