Grade 'The Box'

[calleighspeedle]

I agree, I think Lindsey was just confused I mean finding out your pregnant is a big deal, she needed time to take in the news herself before telling Danny.

Now that she's told Danny and seeing his reaction and the end of the episode, I think she is more at ease with her decision at telling him about the baby. Danny seems to have handled the news well and seems contented at the idea of being a father.

 

[AbbyD]

I've had several days to think about this now, and I have to say that my initial impression hasn't changed. This episode was bizarre from start to finish.

First, TPTB decide to drop the baby bomb during a case about a murdered teenage girl who was kicked out by her parents who were more concerned about being judged by their neighbors that concern for their daughter and unborn grandchild. Is their harsh treatment of their daughter and her tragic death supposed to make us more sympathetic toward Lindsey somehow???

Second, the concept of Danny pouring his heart out to those same heartless parents in the police station is beyond WTF? OK, many have made the point that it is often easier to talk to strangers. But it is completely twisted for the writers to set up this scenario. I know this is TV, not real life, but come on! In what reality would a cop put himself in that situation? Danny may be the emotional drama queen of the series, but even he has a better sense of self preservation than that. Then the writers make Danny's soliloquy a tortuous rewriting of the CSI:NY history as we the viewers know it. It came out as an insult. Yes, many aspects of the D/L have been up to interpretation, but this new version of cannon is just a blatant mis-representation of what we have seen on screen from season 2 through the first 8 episodes of season 5.

Third, TPTB have continued the pattern of Lindsey running away, Danny chasing, Lindsy slinging accusations at Danny, Danny groveling, Lindsey Good/Danny Bad, etc. Why rewrite history if at the same time you are going to continue the previous pattern which you've just revised? It makes no sense!

Fourth, the total disregard of the reality of Lindsey continuing to work in the lab and in the field while pregnant. With any pregnancy that is a period of time between conception and confirmation where the mother doesn't know she is pregnant. Understood. But by her own admission Lindsey has known for several weeks that she is pregnant, yet she has continued to work in the lab around dangerous chemicals. She has continued to work in the field where at any time it is possible to find herself in a life and death situation forced to run, fight, shoot, be injured, etc. Yet we are supposed to be blithely unaware of the dangers she is putting her unborn child in and pat her on the head and think "what a good mommy she'll make!". All this beside the point that she had not yet told the father and was essentially forced to to so only after he accidentally found her at a clinic, yet we are told via the revised history that they have reconciled as a couple. Geez, they still aren't talking to each other!

When I first heard that TPTB had decided to change the original story arc to accommodate AB's real life pregnancy and include it in the CSI:NY story arc I just didn't see how they could pull it off creatively or with AB's limited acting ability. This episode did nothing to make me believe that they have found a way to write a believable thread for us to follow. I just can't see why they have painted themselves into this corner. They've left themselves no face saving way out of the box they've nailed themselves into. Is that why they named the episode "The Box"?

It is no secret that over the last few years I've come to begrudge any and all Lindsey scenes as a waste of precious time taken from other much more deserving characters. Although I've not been a huge Danny fan, I at least found the character interesting. Once upon a time. Over the endless chase/grovel arc of D/L (what is so often referred to as Danny loosing his balls), I've lost respect for, and interest in, Danny's character. Now he just makes me tired.

*sigh*

I don't think any amount of spinning by the TPTB can make the general viewer buy into this story arc and I fear it will usher in a steady decline in viewership.

 

[melanie33]

And still, people are on about the storyline being changed...There is no proof, none, that D and L didnt end up together in the end. The only thing that changed IMO was the time it took them to get there.

And in regards to the parents. We all make mistakes, sometimes we live to regret those mistakes. We are not perfect, the parents didnt know, when they kicked her out, she would end up dead. And they have to live with that for the rest of their lives.

And I dont see Danny being out of character at all, he was hit with life changing news, obviously needed someone to talk to, and when the parents asked him if he was ok, and if he had kids, he told them. The parents prompted him. Danny has gotten himself into trouble before, by keeping things bottled up...To me it shows a change of character, that he is becoming more open, and sometimes its easier to talk to people that dont know the situation. That way, they cant influence you one way or another.

The thing about TV, is they love to go for shock value. Which is exactly what they did, dropping the pregnancy thing, with no hint to the veiwers. Also sad to say, the casual veiwers are the ones that hold the most importance with TPTB, and Danny explained the situation, enough so it made sense to that kind of veiwer.

And in regards to Danny cheating how much clearer could he be..." See, the truth is I cant really blame her for not saying anything, see a while ago, I messed up, I was with another woman. I didnt say anything but she knew, I think she knew. Couple months later we get back together, things havent really been the same"

Think back to RND. Lindsay called Danny at the beginning of that episode, and asked him for lunch, and offered to buy..Ahh, wouldnt that be a bit strange for her to do, if they had just broken up. I think they broke up after Lindsays speech-which makes sense--seeing as though she said she had to let her love for him go. I think Lindsay suspected he was sleeping with Rikki not just pushing her away. Which makes sense of Dannys " I didnt say anything, but she knew I think she knew" The "things havent really been the same" comment makes sense too...Trust, trust takes a long time to get back to how it was before, anyone that has been through a similar situation knows that it takes time.

And in regards to Lindsay not telling Danny. Think of how he acted/reacted the last time he was faced with something difficult/different. He pulled away, pushed Lindsay away. IMO, I think she was kind of protecting herself, or preparing herself mentally for him to do that, before she gave him the news. I dont see that being selfish at all, neither is what she said to him, he made her think that of him, after what he did last season. Doesnt mean she doesnt love him though, she has obviously forgiven him, but it takes a lot longer to forget if ever. Doesnt mean their relationship cant survive though. I think the final scene was all about new beginnings, the parents with their grandchild, now have a chance to right their wrongs, same with Danny. Him standing by Lindsay, is the first step towards them re connecting. Which is what the hand touch signified.

And in regards to Danny loving Lindsay..I think its pretty obvious he does, it was kind of impled in the phonecall in PF..And made even the more obvious here, not only with him talking about Lindsay, but talking about things that were really insignificant, to the conversation--but were significant to Lindsay. I mean seriously what guy remembers that stuff. Shows how important she is to him. The most poingnent scene in the whole episode, was the flashback scene. Danny flashed back to Lindsay, not the ultrasound picture, he saw her face. It proves to me, he is not just staying because of the baby, he is staying because he loves Lindsay, wants to be with her regardless. If it was about the baby, thats what we would have seen in his flashback--him looking at the ultrasound picture.

What happened last season changed him. Our life experiences are what mould us into who we are, we learn from our mistakes. Thats why I dont see anything Danny did in this episode as being out of character. Danny is growing up, becoming more mature, wanting different things out of life.. Is that so wrong. Love changes you, usually for the better. Danny after everything he has been through, deserves some happiness in his life. I cant see anything wrong with that at all.

We cant help who we fall in love with. Lindsay put up with a lot of crap from Danny last season, I think it shows how strong a person she is that she took him back. She forgave him, because she loves him, she thought he deserved a second chance, yes things maybe different between them, doesnt mean their relationship cant survive. Danny has to earn back her trust, standing by her, is a great first step.

 

[Brinchen]

Whoa, that's one long post, melanie. But I like it. And I agree with you.

 

[electra]

After watching this episode ,I will have to consider stop watching like I did with Miami.It's just TOO MUCH drama for a crime show.I don't care who is in the wrong or not,I just don't want to see it.

The case was predictable and boring.If I have to tolerate the D/L drama,at least the case should be good.

 

[Top41]

As for the much quoted thing Lindsay said to Danny, perhaps I'm a bit biased , but I interpreted that a little different, not accusing, not trying to put him down, but merely stating that she did not want to pressure him (); "I know you" (you're a kind person at heart, who'd probably wanna do the right thing), "I'm not expecting anything" (please don't decide to be with me just because of the baby).

Lindsay's tone of voice was completely off for that interpretation to ring true to what we were shown on screen. She didn't have any warmth or understanding in her voice. She was being her usual judgemental, mean self. If she was trying to say the words you are putting into her mouth she could have just said them. Even if a person has communication problems as huge as Lindsay's they don't run away from someone and try to avoid telling them something life changing while saying those things if they think the other person is kind, understanding and morally responsible. That in no way makes any sense.

Danny did say things between them were not as they were before, so we still have no clue about what the status of their relationship really is, and from what he said it sounded like they don't know that either; so dropping the news of a pregnancy on him would be something I can imagine Lindsay would be hesitant about because she doesn't want to put extra pressure on him, especially since she knows his morals.

"She knows his morals"? I don't see how. Danny and Lindsay have a terrible track record when it comes to communication, and it clearly hasn't gotten any better. I doubt they've played the "What would you do if...?" game while canoodling on his couch or toilet or anywhere else. Lindsay is a terrible judge of either circumstance or moral character, and she's hardly above reproach on that score herself. We only have Danny's word for it that Lindsay suspects anything with regard to Rikki, and Danny, bless him, is the show's Chicken Little, always suspecting the worst.

For all we know, Lindsay suspects nothing about what happened between him and Rikki and is simply lashing out from the impregnable fortress of perpetual butthurt in which she so often and so merrily resides.

Agreed. At the end of the day, Danny and Lindsay don't communicate well at all, and I think this episode perfectly illustrates that. Danny makes assumptions about Lindsay--she knew about Rikki--and Lindsay makes assumptions about Danny--she "knows him" and that he won't want to take on the responsibility of a kid. What it shows really is how little these two know each other, and how they have never really connected in a deep, meaningful way.

That all might very well change with the news that there's a baby on the way, but at this point, all we've seen so far is how they make assumptions about each other rather than communicating with each other. That's not the hallmark of a healthy or mature relationship.

And in regards to Danny loving Lindsay..I think its pretty obvious he does, it was kind of impled in the phonecall in PF..And made even the more obvious here, not only with him talking about Lindsay, but talking about things that were really insignificant, to the conversation--but were significant to Lindsay. I mean seriously what guy remembers that stuff. Shows how important she is to him. The most poingnent scene in the whole episode, was the flashback scene. Danny flashed back to Lindsay, not the ultrasound picture, he saw her face. It proves to me, he is not just staying because of the baby, he is staying because he loves Lindsay, wants to be with her regardless. If it was about the baby, thats what we would have seen in his flashback--him looking at the ultrasound picture.

I think whether Danny actually loves Lindsay is very ambiguous as well. There's little passion in his voice when he talks to her, little passion between them at all, really. Lindsay does seem hung up on him while Danny seems confused. I don't expect Danny to do anything but stay with her, and I certainly expect the storyline will dictate that at some point he will realize he loves her and will say those words...but he's definitely not there yet.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

As for the much quoted thing Lindsay said to Danny, perhaps I'm a bit biased , but I interpreted that a little different, not accusing, not trying to put him down, but merely stating that she did not want to pressure him (); "I know you" (you're a kind person at heart, who'd probably wanna do the right thing), "I'm not expecting anything" (please don't decide to be with me just because of the baby).

Lindsay's tone of voice was completely off for that interpretation to ring true to what we were shown on screen. She didn't have any warmth or understanding in her voice. She was being her usual judgemental, mean self. If she was trying to say the words you are putting into her mouth she could have just said them. Even if a person has communication problems as huge as Lindsay's they don't run away from someone and try to avoid telling them something life changing while saying those things if they think the other person is kind, understanding and morally responsible. That in no way makes any sense.

I totally agree. One of the major problems I have with Anna Belknap as an actress is that we can interpret how her character is supposed to be feeling in a billion different ways, and we shouldn't have to have to guess what she's trying to get across. In the "I know you/i don't expect anything" scene, her tone of voice doesn't match up with the "please don't be with me just because of a baby" or that she is trying not to pressure him by telling him about the baby. Her voice is harsh and accusing, and I can't see it as anything other than cutting him down. And why would she be meaning "please don't be with me just because of the baby," when they are already together?

"She knows his morals"? I don't see how. Danny and Lindsay have a terrible track record when it comes to communication, and it clearly hasn't gotten any better.

Top 41 said:

Agreed. At the end of the day, Danny and Lindsay don't communicate well at all, and I think this episode perfectly illustrates that. Danny makes assumptions about Lindsay--she knew about Rikki--and Lindsay makes assumptions about Danny--she "knows him" and that he won't want to take on the responsibility of a kid. What it shows really is how little these two know each other, and how they have never really connected in a deep, meaningful way.

To me this is the prime example of how weak their relationship really is. If the writers really wanted us to see them as a real couple, they shouldn't have to tell us using Danny that they are together--they should be showing us with the way they communicate and act around each other. If all we can hear from Danny about Lindsay is that Lindsay got a knife for her birthday and is from Montana, and all we get from Lindsay about Danny is that he would abandon her when she's pregnant, what real connection do they have with each other?

And in regards to Danny loving Lindsay..I think its pretty obvious he does, it was kind of impled in the phonecall in PF..And made even the more obvious here, not only with him talking about Lindsay, but talking about things that were really insignificant, to the conversation--but were significant to Lindsay. I mean seriously what guy remembers that stuff.

Simply talking about a person and what they got for their birthday when they were nine doesn't imply that you are in love with that person. To me, the fact that everything he was talking about Lindsay was insignificant facts about birthday presents only gives more evidence that he doesn't feel as deeply for her as she does for him.

Shows how important she is to him. The most poingnent scene in the whole episode, was the flashback scene. Danny flashed back to Lindsay, not the ultrasound picture, he saw her face. It proves to me, he is not just staying because of the baby, he is staying because he loves Lindsay, wants to be with her regardless. If it was about the baby, thats what we would have seen in his flashback--him looking at the ultrasound picture.

How is flashing back to a person's face=you love that person? Lindsay was the one who had told him she was pregnant, she was the one carrying his child--he would have to flash back to her face or voice either way because she is connected to the storyline. He looks at the ultrasound in his hand several times throughout the episode, just because he didn't flash back to it doesn't mean he wasn't staying just as much for the baby.

None of what Danny has done in regards to Lindsay points directly to him loving her. He's never said it or shown it more than he has for any other character on the show. He's called her, slept with her, flash backed to her face...none of these are solid examples of this 'deep connection' we are supposed to see between them.

If it comes out later in the season where Danny admits to loving her, I have to say I'll be disapointed, because once again it seems like TPTB are going back and creating flashbacks and events for things that never happened, just so they can fix whatever storyline they want now. The fact that there was no interaction between D/L before this episode and the bombshell proves that. It wasn't for dramatic effect that they didn't show them together-it was shoddy writing and a thrown together story to accompany a pregnancy. If we are truly to believe that they are together, there should have been evidence other than Danny flashing back and saying "oh yeah we were together."

 

[PerfectAnomaly]

Simply talking about a person and what they got for their birthday when they were nine doesn't imply that you are in love with that person. To me, the fact that everything he was talking about Lindsay was insignificant facts about birthday presents only gives more evidence that he doesn't feel as deeply for her as she does for him.

Agreed completely. I can tell you what some of my co-workers got for their birthdays when they were kids and I'm not even remotely close to being friends with any of them. Lindsay and Danny interact on a superficial level and it's a complete joke TPTB expect the viewers to see love in that.

Shows how important she is to him. The most poingnent scene in the whole episode, was the flashback scene. Danny flashed back to Lindsay, not the ultrasound picture, he saw her face. It proves to me, he is not just staying because of the baby, he is staying because he loves Lindsay, wants to be with her regardless. If it was about the baby, thats what we would have seen in his flashback--him looking at the ultrasound picture.

How is flashing back to a person's face=you love that person? Lindsay was the one who had told him she was pregnant, she was the one carrying his child--he would have to flash back to her face or voice either way because she is connected to the storyline. He looks at the ultrasound in his hand several times throughout the episode, just because he didn't flash back to it doesn't mean he wasn't staying just as much for the baby.

Plus Danny was carrying the friggin' sonogram with him. There'd be no need to flash back to it when he could just whip it out and look at it. This pregnancy ties him to Lindsay so it's pretty obvious he'd think of her regardless of his feelings toward her.

None of what Danny has done in regards to Lindsay points directly to him loving her. He's never said it or shown it more than he has for any other character on the show. He's called her, slept with her, flash backed to her face...none of these are solid examples of this 'deep connection' we are supposed to see between them.

If it comes out later in the season where Danny admits to loving her, I have to say I'll be disapointed, because once again it seems like TPTB are going back and creating flashbacks and events for things that never happened, just so they can fix whatever storyline they want now. The fact that there was no interaction between D/L before this episode and the bombshell proves that. It wasn't for dramatic effect that they didn't show them together-it was shoddy writing and a thrown together story to accompany a pregnancy. If we are truly to believe that they are together, there should have been evidence other than Danny flashing back and saying "oh yeah we were together."

Exactly. Superficial is the word to describe their connection. There's too much a person has to make up that isn't in canon for them to be deeply connected or in love. Or there's too much TPTB have to go back and establish after the fact to tell us (not show us because God knows that would actually take some work and they don't seem willing to do any when it comes to DL) their relationship status and feelings for one another. That won't ring true to a lot of people even if it does happen because it's basically going back and writing a "do-over" for their whole friggin' relationship.

I stopped believing in "do-overs" after grade school.

 

[electra]

Had Danny be the father of another woman's child(Ricki to put an exemple) and still be flashing Lindsay ,that could have been significant.But at this point,she is the mother of his child!!! And I would not even mention that the baby doesn't even have a face yet.A sonogram is not a picture.

 

[JellyBelly]

The whole debate of whether or not Danny loves Lindsay could go on and on. In fact, even if he actually says it, I imagine while some will be rejoicing, others will be questioning where certain appendages (or is it appendagi?) have gone.

I'm not surprised we haven't seen him say it yet. If he'd have said it in response to her declaration in RND it would have been laughable considering the fact he'd just had sex with someone else. If he'd have said it in 'The Box' it would have seemed he was just saying it because of the baby.

As to whether or not he does love her, I lean towards speculating that he does. I see a deep connection and have done since S3.

 

[Top41]

The whole debate of whether or not Danny loves Lindsay could go on and on. In fact, even if he actually says it, I imagine while some will be rejoicing, others will be questioning where certain appendages (or is it appendagi?) have gone.

Agreed that it will go on and on. And yeah, I'm sure even if he says it, some will question it. Perhaps because what we've seen on screen doesn't really suggest that he does.

I'm not surprised we haven't seen him say it yet. If he'd have said it in response to her declaration in RND it would have been laughable considering the fact he'd just had sex with someone else.

What about "several months later" in "Personal Foul," after Lindsay went so far as to say it again. It seems to me if he felt it, he would have said it then.

If he'd have said it in 'The Box' it would have seemed he was just saying it because of the baby.

Agreed...though if he felt it, he might have said it to the parents, or referred to her in terms a little more passionate than the lukewarm declaration that Lindsay being different is "a good thing."

As to whether or not he does love her, I lean towards speculating that he does. I see a deep connection and have done since S3.

I feel the opposite actually... I saw a bond forming in season two, but I feel like Lindsay did major damage to it in season three when she stood him up and shut him out. It only got worse in season four when he basically did the same to her...albeit with less of an effort on her part to reach out. Danny's "things haven't been the same" was very telling IMO as well. They might be able to build back up if both make an effort, but right now, they seem very disconnected to me.

 

[JellyBelly]

The whole debate of whether or not Danny loves Lindsay could go on and on. In fact, even if he actually says it, I imagine while some will be rejoicing, others will be questioning where certain appendages (or is it appendagi?) have gone.

Agreed that it will go on and on. And yeah, I'm sure even if he says it, some will question it. Perhaps because what we've seen on screen doesn't really suggest that he does.

I'd say it's more to do with preferences and interpretations. I don't think I've seen such wildly differing interpretations as I have with D/L.

I'm not surprised we haven't seen him say it yet. If he'd have said it in response to her declaration in RND it would have been laughable considering the fact he'd just had sex with someone else.

What about "several months later" in "Personal Foul," after Lindsay went so far as to say it again. It seems to me if he felt it, he would have said it then.

Maybe he did, just not on the phone. Not that I necessarily think he did but it's possible. I imagine something had to convince Lindsay to retract her plans to 'let go'. Many men struggle to say those words. I wonder if Danny's one of them.

If he'd have said it in 'The Box' it would have seemed he was just saying it because of the baby.

Agreed...though if he felt it, he might have said it to the parents, or referred to her in terms a little more passionate than the lukewarm declaration that Lindsay being different is "a good thing."

See, I didn't find that declaration lukewarm at all.

As to whether or not he does love her, I lean towards speculating that he does. I see a deep connection and have done since S3.

I feel the opposite actually... I saw a bond forming in season two, but I feel like Lindsay did major damage to it in season three when she stood him up and shut him out. It only got worse in season four when he basically did the same to her...albeit with less of an effort on her part to reach out. Danny's "things haven't been the same" was very telling IMO as well. They might be able to build back up if both make an effort, but right now, they seem very disconnected to me.

I agree with the damage being caused. Maybe it's a fragile 'deep bond' that I see. I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I've always been convinced by their connection, even though they've both played their parts in messing it up.

Talking of messing things up. I agree with whoever posted earlier that we need to see some sort of admissiion of culpability on Lindsay's part. At the moment the emphasis is on Danny and him putting the effort in, but I'd like to see Lindsay making an effort too.

 

[Top41]

Talking of messing things up. I agree with whoever posted earlier that we need to see some sort of admissiion of culpability on Lindsay's part. At the moment the emphasis is on Danny and him putting the effort in, but I'd like to see Lindsay making an effort too.

I think that would go a long way with a lot of viewers, actually. While I don't see any heat or chemistry between the couple--there wasn't an ounce of passion between them in "The Box"--I think I could certainly accept the pairing if it weren't so lopsided in the way they behave towards each other, with Lindsay always acting like a wounded martyr and Danny constantly having to apologize or make up for simply being who he is. It's more than a little unhealthy, the dynamic they have, and I for one could accept them--and maybe even enjoy their interactions as I did in season two--if Lindsay owned up to her part in what's brought them off track.

 

[cSiNyFrEaK30]

Talking of messing things up. I agree with whoever posted earlier that we need to see some sort of admissiion of culpability on Lindsay's part. At the moment the emphasis is on Danny and him putting the effort in, but I'd like to see Lindsay making an effort too.

I think that would go a long way with a lot of viewers, actually. While I don't see any heat or chemistry between the couple--there wasn't an ounce of passion between them in "The Box"--I think I could certainly accept the pairing if it weren't so lopsided in the way they behave towards each other, with Lindsay always acting like a wounded martyr and Danny constantly having to apologize or make up for simply being who he is. It's more than a little unhealthy, the dynamic they have, and I for one could accept them--and maybe even enjoy their interactions as I did in season two--if Lindsay owned up to her part in what's brought them off track.

I agree completely. Lindsay has always seemed to be the one that never gets called out for her behavior (i.e. storming off the scene in Silent Night, leaving out evidence unattended, etc), and has had apart in mangling the DL thing going on...it would be very good and a true sign of growth in her character if she were to step up and admit to having caused some of the problems and acknowledge that she isn't the 'wounded martyr' in every situation. It would give me (and I'm sure many others) a reason to hope that her character could finally grow and evolve as the others have, instead of remaining stuck in neutral for three seasons or so.

 

[kinkapoodles]

Maybe he did, just not on the phone. Not that I necessarily think he did but it's possible. I imagine something had to convince Lindsay to retract her plans to 'let go'. Many men struggle to say those words. I wonder if Danny's one of them.

That's just speculation that maybe he did. If tptb want us to see this honest and caring relationship between them you'd think they'd at least have Danny showing some kind of loving emotion toward her than what we've seen. He really shows no emotion toward her at all and that 'I know you' bit-it certainly didn't come off as loving on Lindsay's part. I took it as she thought Danny would bail on his child just like he bailed on her because you know, it's all about Lindsay. Telling him that and then taking off is her M.O. She seems to enjoy having Danny run after her when she's mad at him since it seems to be the only time he pays attention to her.

Sure they've had sex but sex does not equal love. Also, remember Danny's words to Mac in Til Death Do We Part. Danny was pretty adamant about NOT wanting to fall in love and even though that was Season 1, I still haven't seen anything that would prove he is in love. I have this feeling the first thing he'll truly love will be this baby.

They're just two screwed up people who are terrible at communicating with each other and now because somebody didn't bother with birth control (and don't get me started on 'the condom broke' excuse:scream: How would condom makers stay in business if their product was THAT bad?), two screwed up people are going to have to learn how to be parents. Hopefully they will both do a lot of growing up before this baby gets here or I really feel for it.