Grade "Tanglewood"

[Polly]

Posted by BittenByTheWolfe:
Actually, with the way he seemed so...righteous (is that the word I'm looking for?) during the scene when Danny comes to his office, I actually could see Mac possibly being a bit confrontational in this situation. I mean, he seems the type to be able to keep his cool but I'm sure he has a breaking point and I think the possibility of one of his CSIs not being on the up and up with him might actually really piss him off. I mean, I don't see him screaming at Danny, but I could definitely see him being very angry and letting Danny know.

I agree with you there. To me, Mac seems the type of person who would really, really value trust, and he's got to be feeling betrayed right now. I don't think he'd make a scene, but he'd want to know what's what with Danny.

And Stella, who as far as I know doesn't know the entire story, would probably confront Mac about it. I think he could convince her to delay having a shouting match with Danny in a locker room once she knew the truth. Mac and Stella have a pretty good relationship.

I definitely don't want the Tanglewood story to be resolved quickly in the next episode, but nor do I want it to be conveniently forgotten until they want to use it again. Argh.

One week left, and I'm still crossing my fingers ...

 

[Top41]

Posted by BittenByTheWolfe:
He did. As they're in the mall parking lot, walking, Mac says "Danny said..." It's right at the beginning of the scene so it's slightly cut and I thought he actually said "He said..." but when I watched it again I'm sure I distinctly heard Danny's name.

That's right--I had forgotten that. I was thinking of the initial scene where Mac says he knows he can talk to about the Tanglewood tattoo. Which he said to Hawkes anyways...so just ignore me! I'm confuzzled.

Actually, with the way he seemed so...righteous (is that the word I'm looking for?) during the scene when Danny comes to his office, I actually could see Mac possibly being a bit confrontational in this situation. I mean, he seems the type to be able to keep his cool but I'm sure he has a breaking point and I think the possibility of one of his CSIs not being on the up and up with him might actually really piss him off. I mean, I don't see him screaming at Danny, but I could definitely see him being very angry and letting Danny know.

Righteous is a good word for Mac's attitude. He's such a good boy--I can see why Danny would have a really hard time coming clean to him. I could see him giving Danny the cold shoulder or being hard on him, but something makes me think he'll want Danny to fess up all on his own.

Posted by Polly:
I definitely don't want the Tanglewood story to be resolved quickly in the next episode, but nor do I want it to be conveniently forgotten until they want to use it again. Argh.

I agree...I want something in the middle, but given the CSI shows' track record, I'm thinking it will be brought up again the next time they want to use it for a story, and not before. Heck, even Speed's murder over on Miami was overlooked except when they needed it as a convenient quip or reference for one of the characters.

I am, however, hoping NY will break the mold.

 

[BittenByTheWolfe]

when they needed it as a convenient quip or reference for one of the characters.

Ugh, that pisses me off and I seriously hope they don't use this storyline like that. As I've mentioned before, I don't want to see this resolved immediately because that would almost be anti-climactic, but on the same hand I don't want it to be like a soap opera, where you watch one episode and then six months later they're still at the same party and you haven't missed a thing, you know?

 

[Top41]

Posted by BittenByTheWolfe:
Ugh, that pisses me off and I seriously hope they don't use this storyline like that. As I've mentioned before, I don't want to see this resolved immediately because that would almost be anti-climactic, but on the same hand I don't want it to be like a soap opera, where you watch one episode and then six months later they're still at the same party and you haven't missed a thing, you know?

Yep, I'm with you. The best dramas really develop something like this well--little things in each episode and then you finally get a big pay off. I'm trying to think of a good example. Anya the vengeance demon becoming human and joining the Scooby gang in Buffy the Vampire Slayer is a good one, which will have no meaning at all to anyone who hasn't see Buffy the Vampire Slayer. :lol: Guess that might not be much help.

But the idea is that you develop a character or a plot line slowly and show the characters grappling with it just like real people would. The CSIs on Miami should have been in grief counseling for Speed's death. Now, this could have been addressed in a few lines--a convo between Calleigh and Delko about counseling, Ryan asking Delko about Speed, etc.--but it wasn't. The next episode was business as usual, and we've only seen two decent scenes dealing with it--H talking to Rebecca about it in "After the Fall" and Alexx being snippy with Ryan in "Hell Night." Otherwise, it was a chance to really get to know the Miami CSIs better that was lost.

I'm cautiously optimistic about Sara's development on CSI this season. But if it comes to nothing (here referencing the silly scene in "Snakes" where Grissom and Sara essentially say nothing to each other for the billionth time and it goes nowhere), it's a waste.

The same is true of Danny. Let's see him struggle with this secret. Now that he knows his two supervisors know about it (or that there's something to know about), Danny is probably going to feel pretty isolated. Withdrawn, maybe standoffish. And Mac is going to be evaluating everything Danny does, wondering if he can trust the guy.

But I have a sneaking suspicion we'll see nothing in the next ep about it. I'm really hoping to be proved wrong.

 

[BittenByTheWolfe]

The CSIs on Miami should have been in grief counseling for Speed's death. Now, this could have been addressed in a few lines--a convo between Calleigh and Delko about counseling, Ryan asking Delko about Speed, etc.--but it wasn't. The next episode was business as usual, and we've only seen two decent scenes dealing with it--H talking to Rebecca about it in "After the Fall" and Alexx being snippy with Ryan in "Hell Night." Otherwise, it was a chance to really get to know the Miami CSIs better that was lost.

Not to get on a Miami rant but, in my opinion, Miami needs to deal with this. Here they have the characters acting all depressed, which is obviously a reaction to Speed's death, but the events in each episode basically act as though nothing ever happened. So, in effect, it seems like these characters are depressed for no reason which is, well, depressing to watch. Either make adequate references as to why the characters are depressed or, if Speed's death must be ignored, lighten the characters up as well.

The same is true of Danny. Let's see him struggle with this secret. Now that he knows his two supervisors know about it (or that there's something to know about), Danny is probably going to feel pretty isolated. Withdrawn, maybe standoffish. And Mac is going to be evaluating everything Danny does, wondering if he can trust the guy.

They've got a gold mine here in terms of story development for the writers and character development for the actors. There are so many facets that can be explored and, for both the writers and the actors, it can be a prime chance to exercise the extent of their skills. If this storyline gets dropped it's doing a disservice to the people who work to put the finished product up, as well as to the audience, who expects resolution. And also, if the audience is dissatisfied it's very easy to just change the channel.

With the way CSI is notorious for dropping storylines, I'm thinking that even non-verbal signals between characters, indicating tension, would be a joyous occasion in the next episode. Just to let us know that the storyline hasn't been forgotten.

 

[Tripp3235]

Posted by Top41:

But the idea is that you develop a character or a plot line slowly and show the characters grappling with it just like real people would. The CSIs on Miami should have been in grief counseling for Speed's death. Now, this could have been addressed in a few lines--a convo between Calleigh and Delko about counseling, Ryan asking Delko about Speed, etc.--but it wasn't. The next episode was business as usual, and we've only seen two decent scenes dealing with it--H talking to Rebecca about it in "After the Fall" and Alexx being snippy with Ryan in "Hell Night." Otherwise, it was a chance to really get to know the Miami CSIs better that was lost.

I completely understand what you mean. It really reminds me of 80's TV series where they put a main character through some trauma and then it never comes up again. Or someone "falls madly in love, gets engaged and then is forced to watch that person die" all in one episode with no apparent later repucussions. (Chips, Knight Rider, Growing Pains...they have all done it.) I HATE it when there is NO continuity from episode to episode.

I don't want it to be a soap opera either but if they bother writing in dramatic scenes in an episode (angst) for the character to experience, it usually just doesn't disappear when the episode ends!

 

[Top41]

^Exactly. Make it realistic or don't bother with the personal stuff. But major personal stuff just does not get dropped. And I totally know what you mean about 80s shows! :lol:

Posted by BittenByTheWolfe:
Not to get on a Miami rant but, in my opinion, Miami needs to deal with this. Here they have the characters acting all depressed, which is obviously a reaction to Speed's death, but the events in each episode basically act as though nothing ever happened. So, in effect, it seems like these characters are depressed for no reason which is, well, depressing to watch. Either make adequate references as to why the characters are depressed or, if Speed's death must be ignored, lighten the characters up as well.

Yeah, exactly. And really, the former is the better way to go. After all, their reaction to Speed's death is understandable. But nobody talking about it at all is not. As it is, the death sucked the joy out of the series in many ways, but nobody ever references it, so it's like, geez, these are just a bunch of unhappy people! Which is a shame, because the characters have more life than that.

They've got a gold mine here in terms of story development for the writers and character development for the actors. There are so many facets that can be explored and, for both the writers and the actors, it can be a prime chance to exercise the extent of their skills. If this storyline gets dropped it's doing a disservice to the people who work to put the finished product up, as well as to the audience, who expects resolution. And also, if the audience is dissatisfied it's very easy to just change the channel.

With the way CSI is notorious for dropping storylines, I'm thinking that even non-verbal signals between characters, indicating tension, would be a joyous occasion in the next episode. Just to let us know that the storyline hasn't been forgotten.

Agreed. Just do something--give us something to know that the storyline is on-going and what happened is at the forefront of everyone's mind. Kinda like with Speed's death. Heck, if I thought one of my colleagues had mob connections, that's what I'd think about every time I saw that person! And though it doesn't have to be that blatant, it should be referenced sometimes.

Plus, like you say, it's great stuff for the writers and actors.

 

[lament]

ut the idea is that you develop a character or a plot line slowly and show the characters grappling with it just like real people would. The CSIs on Miami should have been in grief counseling for Speed's death. Now, this could have been addressed in a few lines--a convo between Calleigh and Delko about counseling, Ryan asking Delko about Speed, etc.--but it wasn't. The next episode was business as usual, and we've only seen two decent scenes dealing with it--H talking to Rebecca about it in "After the Fall" and Alexx being snippy with Ryan in "Hell Night." Otherwise, it was a chance to really get to know the Miami CSIs better that was lost.

Yeah, and some departments mandate grief counseling for close co-workers! I don't know about MDPD, but still--they need to have an episode that deals with Speed's death once and for all. At the very least, I want to see Delko have some reaction. So far, we've had nothing from him but a passing remark, and that's out of character. Yeah, he's trying to be a tough-guy, professional cop, but still! He can have an emotional reaction to the murder of a person he didn't know ("Death Grip"), but nothing for his close friend???

Okay! Sorry about the off-topic stuff, but the handling of Speed's death really yanks my chain.

Flack knows that Danny gave Mac info about the TB, but he doesn't necessarily know about Sonny's comments at the end. Unless Mac, Stella, or the uniform that took Sonny off in cuffs fills him in, Flack doesn't know the possible depth of Danny's connection to the TB.

Danny is probably going to feel pretty isolated. Withdrawn, maybe standoffish. And Mac is going to be evaluating everything Danny does, wondering if he can trust the guy.

That could be a fabulous dynamic, if they play on it. Will they? I don't know. We've been burned by CSI before. I'm going to remain optimistic and hope that we see some tension. If we don't, I'll read between the lines anyway. It's all about the subtext!

 

[Top41]

^Agreed about the mandatory counseling. Especially for Horatio, who was right next to Speed when he got shot! And it's nuts that Delko hasn't reacted at all. They were practically best friends. Of all the people who should have reacted, Delko was at the top of the list.

As for Danny, I'd like to see how it divides him from the other CSIs. Having a secret is tough, especially one you think is on the verge of coming out. I'd expect him to be totally withdrawn and defensive. I guess we'll see--I just hope we get something.

 

[ThumpyG]

Ditto on Danny and how he acts towards the other CSI's now, with his secret. I agree completely with him being defensive, a defense mechanism that he is most likely accustomed to and familar with. I am not the most optimistic one about seeing anything in the next ep, but I am very hopeful.

 

[Polly]

Posted by lament:
Yeah, and some departments mandate grief counseling for close co-workers! I don't know about MDPD, but still--they need to have an episode that deals with Speed's death once and for all. At the very least, I want to see Delko have some reaction. So far, we've had nothing from him but a passing remark, and that's out of character. Yeah, he's trying to be a tough-guy, professional cop, but still! He can have an emotional reaction to the murder of a person he didn't know ("Death Grip"), but nothing for his close friend???

I'm in total agreement with you. I became so annoyed with the lack of reaction to Speed's death that I stopped watching Miami altogether. Speed's death was something that could have brought the team together; it was a chance for the characters to really develop, because I think that grief is an extremely personal thing that gives a lot of insight into people. *Head Bangs*

But back to CSI: New York, which we still have hope for ...

That could be a fabulous dynamic, if they play on it. Will they? I don't know. We've been burned by CSI before. I'm going to remain optimistic and hope that we see some tension. If we don't, I'll read between the lines anyway. It's all about the subtext!

Exactly. I love the way Danny and Mac play off of each other. I just hope that something will show up that references back to Tanglewood, even if it's just an expression on someone's face. If we are 'burned' again, I'll be reading between the lines with you. "Whoa! Mac walked past Danny again! That's gotta mean something!"

*Sighs*

My fingers are still crossed.

 

[Top41]

^I agree, we'll probably see it in smaller moments initially. Which is okay, as long as we get a payoff eventually.

Posted by ThumpyG:
Ditto on Danny and how he acts towards the other CSI's now, with his secret. I agree completely with him being defensive, a defense mechanism that he is most likely accustomed to and familar with. I am not the most optimistic one about seeing anything in the next ep, but I am very hopeful.

Yeah, despite the fact that he appears laid back and friendly to everyone, I think Danny is much more guarded than he seems at first sight. And now he'll have even more reason to be so.

 

[Ducky]

I start to feel strange...I've watched at least 20 timesthe last 2mins of Tanglewood... again and again.

Then go to start,watch where Mac asks about Tanglewood from Danny and Danny explains.Then when Danny asks how case is going...and then to the end.
I wonder if I start to get too ob... I mean... devoted?

 

[ThumpyG]

just keep saying over and over, I am a DEVOTED FAN, I am a DEVOTED FAN. I only watched it 5 times maybe before it was taped over

 

[lament]

I start to feel strange...I've watched at least 20 timesthe last 2mins of Tanglewood... again and again.

Then go to start,watch where Mac asks about Tanglewood from Danny and Danny explains.Then when Danny asks how case is going...and then to the end.
I wonder if I start to get too ob... I mean... devoted?

That's one of the reasons I'm in grad school. You can justify anything as "research!" :lol: