Grade 'Pay Up'

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, May 14, 2009.

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How would you grade Pay Up?

  1. A+

    61 vote(s)
    47.3%
  2. A

    40 vote(s)
    31.0%
  3. A-

    6 vote(s)
    4.7%
  4. B+

    7 vote(s)
    5.4%
  5. B

    4 vote(s)
    3.1%
  6. B-

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  7. C+

    2 vote(s)
    1.6%
  8. C

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  9. C-

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. D+

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. D

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. D-

    1 vote(s)
    0.8%
  13. F

    5 vote(s)
    3.9%
  1. CSI Cupcake

    CSI Cupcake Police Officer

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    I think the interesting difference is between how he reacted differently to Sheldon's uncle passing and Jess getting killed. He actually did hug Sheldon and offer comfort and he didn't even know Uncle Frank. But with Flack and Jess, the first thing he did was punch the wall, which didn't seem self-indulgent to me. It seemed more like frustration at a death that shouldn't have happened and a knowledge that he knew Flack wouldn't want a public hug or a scene in the hospital with Danny going all...."danny" on him. So he chose to do something physical but not personal. Totally unlike Danny, right?

    As for the opening scene, they didn't show Adam, Lindsay or Sid. But then none of those three were in the line of fire during the episode. Adam was under a car, but no one was shooting at him. I think it may have been a way to hype the danger and action of the episode.
     
  2. merlin222

    merlin222 Victim

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    I give it a B. Just because I hate cliffhangers. :p
     
  3. Zipster

    Zipster Witness

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    Absolutely excellent and what a cliff hanger!

    I loved this episode. Season 5 of NY has been my favourite season of all 3 of the shows!

    Some thoughts of mine.

    It was nice to see Mac using Sheldon as a Doctor, rather then a shooter.. it's good to remember that Mac is an ex-Marine so his instincts in these situations usually from his military training.

    I absolutely adore Sid's character and it was such a pleasure to see him have some meaningful contribution to this episode.

    Danny's reaction seemed in character with his relationship with Flack to me. I agree with the previous poster that Flack probably wouldn't want a public scene.

    I was also glad to see Mac and Dunbrooke spare and Mac change his opinion (if only slightly) of the man by the end. Touching that despite the fact that his son is going to testify against him, he still loves him - I liked that.

    I would have liked to see Sinclair in this episode - if only to lead the raid at the end.

    I can't believe that I was shouting "do it!" when Don realised the guy in front of him was Angel's killer - usually I'm shouting "don't do it, you're better then they are.." but this time I wanted that SOB to die!! hehe :lol:

    Very fast pased episode, very nice directions and excellently shot. Watched it twice and the camera work and lighting for this episode was really nice. At the end of the day, they left a huge opening for Season 6...

    I very much look forward to seeing what's instore then!

    Bravo!

    Z
    :p
     
  4. Poppet

    Poppet Police Officer

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    I thought that was all a bit NCSI and didn't really seem to make any sense.

    Also I am not happy that Angell was killed for budget cuts (just put the interview in the Angell thread). If they had to kill a character to save money I can think of better options
     
  5. Plenilunio

    Plenilunio Lab Technician

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    Stella. The other one was Stella when she's inside her SUV waiting for Adam to stick that device under Dunbrook's car.
     
  6. ErinElizabeth

    ErinElizabeth Rookie

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  7. fm62

    fm62 Prime Suspect

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    Eddie Cahill was excellent for the whole episode, he definately understands his character, pulling back the emotions, whilst still allowing them to be seen. However, Flack is not the murdering type under any circumstances, the suggested shooting was completely OOC. Though I doubt there would be any consequences, as MightyMac now decides who is and is not prosecuted.

    I for one was eternally grateful for the lack of manhugs, Flack is not the type and neither was Danny (pre fan-fic season). In the hospital scene, they allowed each other to see their pain, opening themselves up to each other emotionally. Danny was also watching Don with concern, each time they appeared together and looked pleadingly to Mac, when Don wanted to join the investigation.

    Sid could teach Mac a thing or two about connecting with the younger lads gently, selflessly and not stealing their spotlight. This was the best scene in the episode for me. Of course Angel adored him, everyone does, as he is caring towards everyone in a quiet and dignified way.

    Did they really expect a kidnapper to go to the ransom drop without posting a lookout? I couldn't believe they would just exit the vehicle without expecting gunfire. Was impressed with Danny putting the car bonnet up to ward off the gunfire, but amused that he was almost having an anxiety attack that Dunbrook Snr's life was in danger.

    What was the point of the Mac / Stella shipper hug at the end, it didn't add anything to the storyline. It just seemed to be there to let us know that they are thev leads, not Flack. The boy hasn't had many opportunities to hog the limelight, give him this rare chance to shine.

    This was one of the better episodes this season, though not really worthy of a finale episode and the cliffhanger was really, really lame and worse still it was in the preview. Who got shot? I'm past caring anymore.

    This season has really dragged for me, seems to have lasted for years. It probably didn't help watching it online, as I'm used to seeing it 24 weeks in a row, but still may have held my interest with a little bit of excitement and suspense. I'm giving up on the show now, but I'll probably pop in here every now and again to see what you all think of S6, this place is much more interesting than the New york crime lab. :)
     
  8. Dawni

    Dawni CSI Level One

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    I gave it an A.

    Snow Day still tops all the episodes by far but this got close, the start was strange and i did notice they didn't show everybody so now thinking over it i'm assuming they are the ones in danger in the last scene.. makes sense in my head but still fact tehy are all there.

    I loved Nelly, I would love for him to come back next season which i highly doubt but they way Terence and Flack worked together was lovely to watch the way they bounced the insults and then him coming forward with the name.

    Angell's death was done really well and I wasn't expecting it to be so quick i knew it was first 10min but i was like wow. Eddie shon tho as Flack I was soo happy that they didn't bring Mac it but used Danny because the past 2 finales have been about Mac and for once this one wasn't and it was nice for it to be the whole team it really worked.

    The end scene was just cruel the minute i saw the gun fire i was like we won't be able to see anything though I did find it wierd how it went over Stella's silohette twice but then realised that could be cos its easiest to spot her in the group but its plain mean but also good cos we still have no idea who gets hurt.

    Have to say tho this trumped the LV finale by miles which i watchd after NY.
     
  9. eyewitness

    eyewitness Rookie

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    Oh the flash drive fell onto the gutter. It was probably eaten by the alligators in NY's sewers.

    I'm still trying to imagine why would someone shoot at the team, and I can only think it's still related to angell's death. I mean, be it Dunbrook: it would be far too obvious, he would only raise more suspicion agaisnt himself by doing that. But again, TPTB have done nothing but the obvious so far...

    Lindsay is so important she didn't appear in the flash scenes in the beggining of the episode. Maybe she's the one getting hurt?

    Edited to add this:
    I just thought of something: what if the shooters are the Pimp my Ride guys? I mean they got pretty pissed cause NYPD invaded their place and they surely didn't look like nice person with the best intention. right?
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2009
  10. Desertwind

    Desertwind Head of the Day Shift

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    I was completely flabbergasted and shocked at this fabulous episode after watching the drab, bland CSI/Vegas finale, this followed:thumbsup: Now this was a season finale to be remembered. I don't know the characters like all you regular fans do, but was teary eyed when Flack. [is that his name] had tears running down his face upon the death of his 'girlfriend', one the NY's best, and to see Craig T. Nelson as the heavy, butting heads with Mac, fabulous role for him. Riveting from the beginning till the end, and was stunned when they were saluting and paying tribute to their fallen comrade, and someone fried through the window of the bar.. I screamed:scream: who the hell was that? I thought they caught all the perpertrators:confused: cliffhanger.....
     
  11. Elsie

    Elsie Shopaholic

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    For Eddie Cahill's performance alone this deserves an A grade. :) I agree, it's not Snow Day, but it's the next best finale.

    I'll admit to crying more than once when I was watching, it was tough to see Flack like that. I liked Angell, it was sad to see her go, but it was powerful. I'm just so glad we got to see Flack's response to it, seeing men cry often makes me cry. :(

    I'm not that convinced by the cliffhanger, it certainly looked like everyone hit the deck. It didn't leave me too concerned for next season. More fool me probably, I'm still hoping someone did actually get shot and it is an exciting start to next season. I was kind of expecting to see some blood at least, just to make it a bit more interesing. ;)
     
  12. JellyBelly

    JellyBelly Lab Technician

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    A+

    As many others have said before me, it was indeed the best season finale after Snow Day.

    I liked Angell, but I was never really invested in her. I think that's because she only appeared every now and then and I struggled to find anything particularly compelling about her character. But, in one episode, and after her death, Flack made me invested in her. Through him I felt her loss in a way I really hadn't expected to.

    I loved the Don/Terrence dynamic when it began and it certainly didn't disappoint here. I saw an interesting parallel in their characters this episode. There seemed to be a depth of grudging respect between them and Terrance showing up with the goods after he'd been released from their agreement was so cool. In fact the whole episode drew that parallel even further for me. The whole wrong tracks/right tracks thing is interesting. You have the bad guy doing a good thing and the good guy doing the bad thing (in the eyes of the law at least). It was an interesting interplay between the characters, many nuances and shades of grey.

    I am intrigued by Dunbrook. I'm not sure if his words to Mac were a veiled threat or a 'friendly' shot. It's interesting that we didn't really find out anything about Conno're kidnappers other than they were in it for the money. That seems a little suspicious. I'm still not convinced the whole thing wasn't a set up that Dunbrook was aware of. But, having said that, it's just as likely, possibly more so that the attack at the end is the work of someone else. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

    I loved all the characters. I thought every last one of them had a perfect amount of material to work with given the main storyline and I thought they all handled it well.

    Eddie definitely was the star. I'm not sure I'd ever have guessed he could knock out an emotional performance like that. I'd always seen Carmine as the emotional actor of the show (and still do really) but I was so impressed with Eddie here. I liked Danny showing up at the hospital and I liked his reaction. The emotion in his expression was very telling and I felt that the wall punching was a way of getting himself under control so he could be there for Flack - it's just a shame we didn't see their interaction at that point.

    I can definitely see Danny doing something to cover up Don killing the guy who shot Angell. As for what Don did, it was wrong, but it felt so right. Justice and righteousness be damned, this is a tv show and I wanted to cheer at that point, even though in RL I'd say there should be consequences. I suspect it may never come up again though.

    It's interesting to see EV saying that Angell's death was partly to do with budget cuts. I'm not sure how it works with recurring characters though. I would've thought they got paid for when they're used so it should be possible to not use them and save money that way. But, maybe regular recurrers are covered by agreements that promise a minimum number of episodes to keep them around.
     
  13. Ceindreadh

    Ceindreadh Pathologist

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    Okay, firstly, to all the Angell-fans, my sympathies. It always sucks when a loved character gets written out, even more so when they're killed off.
    (takes off hat of compassion)

    Yes, yes, YES!!!!!
    Spoilers did not lie! So long Angell, you were always a little too smug for my liking (even had the same smug puss on your face after you were dead). And while I'll freely admit that yes, there was a hint of jealousy in my dislike of her character after she hooked up with Flack, even beforehand I much preferred the eps and scenes where she didn't appear.

    Call that a cliffhanger though? This is going to be Dynasty's Modovian Wedding Massacre all over again. After a long hot summer of wondering who's going to survive, we'll find out that the only fatality - and possibly even the target - was the poor guy behind the bar. I mean really, all the bullets and glass flying and they don't show any blood? To me this reeks of contract negotiation time. Anybody who doesn't play ball with TPTB will get their season premiere script to find out 'oops, you bled out in the bar, nice knowing you'. And anybody who capitulates and takes whatever deal TPTB have on the table will have a miraculous escape with just a few fetching cuts from shattered glass.

    Edited to add
    I was a little dissapointed with the resolution of the kidnapping.
    I was hoping it would turn out that Dunbrook's son, realizing that testifying against his father would leave him up shit creek financially speaking, had decided to set it up himself to screw his daddy out of 10million.

    While I can understand Mac jumping to the conclusion that Dunbrook was behind it, would it have killed him to acknowledge at some point in the episode that maybe if he hadn't had his head so far up his own self righteous ass then maybe he would have been open to other possibilities and not wasted so much resources, and who knows, maybe they'd have solved the case a bit faster.
     
  14. La_Guera

    La_Guera Lab Technician

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    Oh, Flack. Oh, sweetheart.

    I've long been an unabashed Flack/Eddie Cahill fangirl and sworn that any episode in which he was given a chance to shine would be stellar, and today, I am vindicated, because Eddie was phenomenal.

    I was worried that the writers were going to portray him as a stoic, unflappable, jut-jawed cop who never broke down or acknowledge fear or anguish, but those fears were quickly dispelled the instant Flack arrived at the diner and shoved a table over in his haste to get to Jess. His murmured, "I'm here, baby," and his panicky decision to scoop her into his arms rather than wait for the ambulance said it all: In that moment, he wasn't Detective Flack, badass cop; he was Don Flack, terrified boyfriend trying desperately to be the hero one more time to save the woman he loved. He wasn't hysterical--he still had the control and presence of mind to put her into a cop car and put pressure on the wound, but his frantic pleas for help as he races from the diner leave no doubt that he's falling apart.

    I'm not sure what broke me more: seeing the normally poised Flack break in front of Danny, or his conversation with Sid when the coroner came to collect Angell's body. A man who has seen countless autopsies and rationalized them as a final indignity families pay in return for the possibility of justice can't bear the thought of his love being autopsied. It's hypocrisy of the sweetest kind and a wonderfully human moment, and the writer who thought to put that in should be permitted to saunter around the writers' room sans pants for as long as the show shall live. It wasn't the shrill, manipulative angst of a daytime drama, but a quiet, universal despair that resonates. The moment was further deepened by the subtle details Eddie brought to the scene--the petting, caressing, and reverent placement of Jess' hand beneath the sheets, his strangled silence at Sid's fumbling condolences, his anguished politeness when he thanks Sid, the clearing of his throat just before he leaves the room. Eddie Cahill is simply a credit to his profession.

    But then, so is Robert Joy. God bless Sid Hammerback, who brought his compassion to the fore. From his quiet, "Don," when he realized Don was standing vigil over her to his assurance that he would "be with her the whole way", his concern for the obviously broken Flack was obvious, and it's a credit to Sid that those promises didn't ring hollow. I believed that Sid would treat Angel with due deference, and so did Don, or I'm sure he wouldn't have left her. I love Sid forever for taking the time to offer compassion to a deeply grieving Flack.

    Danny Messer also deserves kudos. After years of repaying Flack's friendship with indifference or outright petulance, he stepped up and raced to Flack's side once news of the shooting got out. I'm not sure he stayed very long, since he was in the ridiculous rah-rah-rawr pep talk scene Mac gave a few minutes later, but he was there for Flack in his most vulnerable hour, and that counts for something.

    He was also there for Flack after the warehouse shooting. I think Danny knew damn well what had happened in that boiler room, and what's more, I don't think he cares. As he's often said, your family is what matters most, and all bets are off when your loved ones are threatened. Angell might not have been part of Flack's family in a biological sense, but she was part of the family he'd chosen for himself and might well have been his wife one day had she survived. As a new father, Danny's emotions are close to the surface, and I've no doubt that he was thinking about what he would do if it were Lindsay who'd been gunned down before his ears. By not questioning Flack further, he has chosen to become Flack's Secret Keeper.

    I was shocked that Flack actually shot the suspect, since I was sure they'd have him shoot to the side at the last moment, a la Nick in "For Warrick. That they didn't choose the safer, moralistic route is a welcome surprise, and that Flack actually shot him speaks to how very not fine he is. Mr. By-the-Book didn't just ignore the rules; he pissed all over them. Narratively, it was the only place they could go, because it would've been patently unbelievable and hokey to have him plead moral superiority, but it could cause problems down the road if the writers choose to ignore it. Flack has always been able to claim the moral high ground when dealing with criminals, but now that he's murdered someone himself in a fit of rage, it will be interesting to see if he's more selective in the application of his righteous indignation. There must be emotional fallout from this. It cannot be swept aside like Danny's "crushed" hand or Flack's bombing trauma.

    For the record, I wasn't sorry to see Flack blow the suspect's brains out. Sometimes the only justice in the world is the kind you make for yourself. Frankly, I expected no other reaction from somebody whose girlfriend was shot over her turkey bacon. But I cannot deny that it was murder. He murdered someone. If he's caught, he should be fired and given a prison term. Bad acts have bad consequences, even for good men.

    That said, I hope he never gets caught.

    My only quibble with the episode was the bar scene. It was well-intended, but it struck me as heartless to have Flack sitting there listening to morose reminiscences about Jess. They were paying tribute to a fallen comrade. He was mourning his lover. The threshold for composure in those instances are vastly different. Someone--Stella or Danny--should've taken him to his apartment and let him get blind drunk under their watchful eye.

    Random Notes:

    Why was Angell sporting atrocious Barbie hair? It looked dreadful and made her look plastic.

    I love Eddie, but his crying face in the hospital corridor was...unfortunate. I know men cry differently than women and fight the outpouring of emotion, but he looked like he was trying to pass a gallstone, and I was relieved when they faded to black.

    Wait. I thought Angell's four brothers were cops. Isn't that what she told Flack during their not-so-l33t surveillance of the rich woman in S4? Now they're not? Now they shunned the job? Huh. Guess it was angstier that way.

    Was it me, or was the drive-by death car the same car Flack was driving when he was talking to Terence Davis in the beginning? If it was, was it just an unfortunate instance of thrift, or is it significant?

    Kudos to the writers for the best episode in two years. It was a gift after the rank, wet fart of "Grounds for Deception".

    A+
     
  15. Lori K.

    Lori K. Pathologist

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    A+ of course who doesnt love Flack? It was crazy that they killed off Angel, they played off of each other so well and Flack with a broken heart:( watching those beautiful baby blues swell with tears oh man he broke my heart:( But I wish I would have been there so I could have patted him on the back when he put that pond scum to sleep. I could have patted him on the back and given him a big huge hug. And someone mentioned Mac is always easy on Stella like in the last episode...I think if Mac finds out Don deliberatly pulled the trigger he may recommend him for a promotion. Remember when Danny, and Flack were having a conversation about the sister who was cut up and the brothers were in for questioning? And Mac walked in and Don said what would you do if she was your sister? and Mac said "I'd kill him". I think this is another case in which Mac will "Look the other way".
     

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