Grade 'Child's Play'

Discussion in 'CSI: New York' started by Top41, Dec 12, 2007.

  1. LateToTheGame

    LateToTheGame Hit and Run

    May 5, 2007
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    It's always interesting to see how people get different things from the same scene. I thought she was thinking about her past when she said she wasn't good at this sort of thing, in that it was not the first time she has been confronted by someone's personal grief. Isn't that why she didn't like dealing with mothers? So it never occurred to me that she didn't think about the mother, even though she didn't mention her.

    Probably not. There is never one "right" thing to say to anyone in that situation and while sometimes the effort helps, sometimes things come out wrong and make it worse. You don't often see that in television land, the characters always seem to say the right thing, so I liked that a character acknowledged not knowing what to say.

    True, but he was right there, and actually, his advice was pretty good. Too bad we never saw her applying it - I agree that the ball was kind of dropped on that one. It was a bit jarring to see her joking and whatnot as if nothing had happened in her very next scene, but she couldn't have found Danny to make awkward attempts to comfort him anyway, he had left to break the news to the mother. And while she may have felt bad for what Danny was going through and that a child had died, she had nothing personally invested in the situation so that isn't too strange - I guess. I just think it's weird, and agree with the person who said that TPTB compromised her character somewhat, because she's been kind of a serious character the last little while, and suddenly now she's joking around. Strange.

    As for the rest of the episode, I agree with much of what has been said - the Danny stuff was great, the kid playing Rueben did a good job - as did the kid in the flashback watching his friend drown. The woman who shot Rueben - not so much. And as someone who is extremely squeamish about stuff to do with eyes - enough already. I missed some quality Hawkes screen time looking away going "ick, ick!!" in case they showed the needle actually going into the eyeball. Bleech!.
  2. Faylinn

    Faylinn Adam Fangirl Super Moderator

    Nov 30, 2005
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    I assume that was her reasoning, but they could have given an indication of her thinking about the mother if she was. The only thing they definitively showed in the scene was that she didn't know how to deal with Danny's grief. That was my point, anyway. I can't read between their lines. *shrug*

    Ok, so what are the friggin' odds that Ruben would get shot in a way that meant he wouldn't have known it? Talk about everything working against them--if they'd gone by a minute sooner or a minute later, none of that would have happened.

    We know that Danny's going to blame himself, but I'm definitely curious about whether we'll see Rikki in the future and how much continuity we'll get for this storyline. I hope Ruben and his mother don't get banished to the Valley of Forgotten Plot-Points. :rolleyes: (And no, I'm not discussing spoilers, since we have a thread for that--just bringing up discussion about it with regards to what we know from just this episode. :))
  3. ClarkF1

    ClarkF1 Hit and Run

    Sep 20, 2006
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    I went from crying with laughter at Sid to crying with sorrow for the kid and the scene with Danny in the hallway.....great acting from Carmine. The only problem was it put me on such a downer that I couldn't laugh at the Lindsay/Flack/Stella conversation outside Laughing Larry's. It kinda felt wrong.

    Perhaps it's because I lost a distant relative who used to look after my gran on Monday but only found out yesterday.

    Still, if I could give it more than an A+ I would.
  4. Top41

    Top41 Administrator Administrator Moderator Premium Member

    Mar 5, 2003
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    Loved the story, loved both cases and how they came together in the end, loved how great Carmine was in this episode. At first I was kind of puzzled that Danny didn't just lose it, but I think he was in shock for the entire episode.

    Count me as one who blames Danny, too. I feel bad for him, but at the same time, he made a really, really bad choice. You see a robbery in progress and you send a kid off alone? Stupid, stupid Danny. He obviously regrets it, and because it's Danny I'm sure he'll be tearing himself up inside for a long time to come, but that won't bring Ruben back.

    I gotta say, while I'm not sure I like Lindsay and Mac any better after this episode, that scene where they were both clearly clueless about how to comfort Danny really helped me understand them both better. Yes, her whole "I'm bad at this" was self-involved, but she and Mac are kind of emotional idiots. Stella is always looking out for Mac, and he was barely there for her in "All Access." Danny couldn't have been sweeter to Lindsay throughout her whole trial thing, but she's never been emotionally supportive of him. I think Mac's advice sucked--if Lindsay cares about Danny, she needs to try to be there for him, and no, just saying, "I'm bad at this" isn't going to cut it. But I buy that Mac would give that advice. I think both Mac and Lindsay need to pull their heads out of their own asses and put themselves out there for someone else for once, and I hope someone says that to them at some point.

    Danny really needs to go to the one person who has always supported him emotionally: Flack. (Incidentally, Flack is also the one who was there for Stella in "All Access.") Flack cracked me up as always in this ep--I loved Eddie's ad lib with the handcuffs and the gesture. Eddie's so awesome. And someone messed with one of Flack's beloved fugly ties--the horror, the horror! :eek: :eek: :eek:

    Great episode. :D
  5. Rad

    Rad Hit and Run

    Oct 9, 2007
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    I agree with the overall consensus here. Great episode all around.

    Carmine, without a doubt, did an excellent job. That man is way beyond talented!

    Like Top , I also saw the similarity in Mac & Lindsay. I actually liked her in this episode. Tho' like many of you have pointed out, having her try & reach Danny in one scene & then laughing away in the next scene with Flack & Stella, just seemed a bit off. More so, b'cos we dont have actual proof that Flack & Stella even know about Danny's plight yet. But Lindsay does. A little sober attitude from her would have been good.

    On a totally random the flashback in the laughing larry's case, how come the parents dont have a clue as to what the kids are up to with this huge box that arrives in the mail????? :confused:
  6. MBGrissom

    MBGrissom Pathologist

    Feb 11, 2005
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    Excellent ep, great jobs all around by all involved.

    I found myself enjoying both cases equally. The Laughing Larry case had enough twists in it to keep me intrigued, and the ending - although hackneyed, with yet another "You hurt me in childhood, you bastard, so I'm getting back at you 20 years later"...but his words through the interrogation window to Larry were heartfelt, and definitely hit home. I doubt it will be awhile until old Larry does laugh again...

    Loved Flack's one liners, although as someone mentioned, there were almost a few too many of them. And once again, I like seeing he and Stella work together. Had to laugh at Flack/Lindsay being total geeks over the old junk in the back of comic books (Yeah, I remember that stuff, too!) and Stella's amusement over it.

    I definitely enjoyed Anna's performance in this ep too, I do think there's a slow-but-sure improvement to her character this season over last, too bad we have so few eps to go, to see if any more progress will be made. Wasn't surprised to see her tell Mac she's not good at this sort of thing, knowing Mac will fully understand; and I wasn't surprised at Mac's reply either, and I did like it. He was telling her simply to be honest with Danny, which I thought was good advice. I do agree with others here though, I thought the transition between that and the next season sucked, to see her laughing and joking so quickly.

    Loved seeing Adam and Sid together, they do definitely need more scenes like that, they play off eachother beautifully! And I echo what Fay (?) said above, once again I can't fail to notice how incredibly hot our wonderful Dr. Hawkes is, and seeing him get hit on by the tatoo artist was priceless.

    I enjoyed the entire Ruben case, well done, and such an adorable little boy. I do think Danny blames himself to some extent, and he should; I think he made a poor decision letting such a young boy make the trek home (even just a couple blocks) by himself, in an emotional state after seeing/hearing a shooting, in a panicked crowd, obviously anything can happen - and did. The woman who played Ruben's mom was wonderful in her scenes, and it was very compelling to see she and Danny both grieving so heavily, sharing the same space as someone said, but not sharing it with eachother. I'm sure she also blames Danny to some extent.

    Danny is pretty consistently one of my least favorite characters on the show, but that said, Carmine himself does a bang-up job week after week of playing him to a "T", and particularly in emotional cases like this, he delivers in a jaw-dropping, exceptional way. Kudos once again to Carmine for a superb performance. :)
  7. dutch_treat

    dutch_treat CSI Level Two

    May 31, 2006
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    This episode really touched my heart and I was glad there were some funny moments (Sid with the itching powder and Larry spraying Flack's tie) to release a bit of the tension.

    I was so sad for those two dead kids because of the stupidity of two adults - Laughing Larry selling cartboard submarines to kids and Lucy Scott for firing a gun in the direction of a crowded street. I really liked how they were both (although Larry was supposed to be the victim) confronted with the effects of their actions.

    I really felt for Danny and the way he blamed himself and I could see this affecting him for a while.

    I thought it was very brave of Lindsay (and not selfish at all) to admit that she isn't good at handling grieving people. And perhaps Mac wasn't the best person to consult about how to talk to Danny, but he was the only one there and I felt that she really wanted to comfort Danny and not make things worse. And although she knows her own weaknesses she still went after him.
  8. Carrieattheprom

    Carrieattheprom Lab Technician

    Oct 22, 2005
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    Man, what a heartbreaking episode! Poor Danny. :(

    That scene with Mac and Lindsay had felt like a set-up scene to me: like we should have had some kind of pay off at the end of the episode with Lindsay trying to reach out to Danny somehow.(I'm not saying I wanted that, it's just how the scene felt to me.)

    Having her yuk it up with Flack and Stella later felt wrong too. Maybe if they had made it seem more like Lindsay was using the humor to distract herself-make it come across as a bit more forced-maybe it would have been better.

    Adam+Sid=GREAT FUN! They need more sceens together.(and more screen time, and included in the opening credits)

    Tattooing eyeballs???!!! eeeeeeewwwww!!!!!

    Poor Sid and the itching powder. That was a fun scene.

    Fireworks scene was very cool too. Felt like an action flick.

    Is Danny really to blame? Probably, but I still feel bad for him.
  9. PerfectAnomaly

    PerfectAnomaly Resident Smart Ass

    Feb 6, 2007
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    I liked that they both had to realize their actions had consequences, but I don't think it was the actions of just two people that caused the death of those two children. I think Danny has some responsibility for not keeping a closer eye on Ruben and making him his first priority while Ruben was in his care. I also feel the parents of Sam and the friend hold some responsibility as well. I know the episode didn't bring that into play at all, but while watching the flashbacks my first instinct was to say, "Where were the parents while these two kids, one of whom can't swim, were out trying to use a cardboard submarine?" I know kids have no problem finding trouble, but the fact that they could just get the thing in the mail, put it together and take it down to the lake and try it out without any adult noticing what the hell was going on really bothered me.

    I don't agree that she went after him, unless you're talking about showing up at the morgue in the first place. If that is what you meant, I saw that as more of a knee jerk reaction. She heard about what happened and went to the morgue without thinking, which is what anyone would do in that situation - just get to the person you care about. Once Danny walked away and she was left with Mac, she was able to stop and think and that prompted their exchange. There was nothing after her exchange with Mac that indicated she gave a second thought about Ruben or Danny.
  10. La_Guera

    La_Guera Lab Technician

    Sep 8, 2005
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    I am an evil person. I accept this. I know that we were supposed to be saddened by the death of little Submarining Sam, but all I could think was that the accident was just natural selection in action. If he was dumb enough to think that cardboard could float, then there's nothing humanity can do.

    And where were the parents? The kids in the flashback looked five. What were they doing alone in the park with a pond? My mother was a helicopter parent, yes, but no mother I've known would ever leave their young child unattended by a pond. The death was tragic, and I can see why the killer would've blamed Laughing Larry, but I can't hold him culpable.

    Even if he "crushed" most of Flack's childhood. How cute was the mental image of Wee!Flack mowing every yard in the neighborhood to get money for those cheap gags? It did make me wonder how many yards that was, and if he lived in a tribe of skinflints as a child.

    Note: Roomie, who is from New York, says that if Flack was mowing yards as a runt, then he couldn't have grown up in Queens, as "Time's Up" tried to retcon. He says Yonkers, Flack's original place of origin, is more likely. Is this a retcon of a retcon, or more shady writing?

    I'll not remark on the X-Ray glasses, except to say that it made me laugh. Hard. It also vindicates my writing Flack as a Roman Catholic and points out another inconsistency. In "Three Generations Are Enough", Flack had no clue that suicide was a cardinal sin in the Church. Stella had to explain this. But if Flack attended a Catholic school, he would've known this. It would've been pounded into his skull. So, either Flack was having a bit too much fun with those X-Ray Glasses, or he was a bit dim in his youth. Or, most likely, the writers thought it sounded good at the time with no regard for characterization.

    The Ruben case was vastly underwhelming. Carmine and Ruben's mom knocked it out of the park, but it didn't poke the same emotional punch for me as Laughing Larry's face when he realized that his cheap toys had done more than make people laugh. That's upside down and inside out, and I'm not sure why I feel that way.

    Danny was fantastic with Ruben, however, more patient than I would've expected, and his reaction to seeing him on the slab was...ouch. Danny clearly blames himself, and Mac's fumbling attempt at consolation did nothing to alleviate that. In fact, I suspect it made it worse. "You did nothing wrong" is not the same as "You did what was right," and I don't think Danny will ever believe either of those statements.

    I can't imagine how Ms. Sandoval must feel. She sent Ruben out with a cop. You can't get much safer than that. And yet, her son is still dead. That's the world's ugliest cosmic joke, and Danny is likely thinking the same thing.

    I'm going to pretend Lindsay missed this episode since she added nothing to it but more self-involvement.

    Not a bad episode, but it dragged in places, and I didn't appreciate the heavy-handed ploy for pity in the Galachter case.

  11. nattybatty55

    nattybatty55 Nadalaholic

    Jan 28, 2007
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    Ok I gave it an A+, it was a great ep :D

    (This may not be in order!)

    - I had tears in my eyes as soon as I saw Reuben at the beginning (it'll trust me to read spoilers!)

    - Never heard of a Bike Blessing before!

    - I know its really not that funny but I had to laugh when I saw that man with a whole in his face :p

    - Reuben is so cute! And I loved the look on Danny's face when he said 'I went to bed at 5:30 :lol:' But a Danny looked cute with his... I just got up look! Ok I adit he looks god with just the WB on :devil:

    - Danny is great with that kid!

    - Danny was right to sent Reuben home thinking he was ok. How could a cop (especially Danny) leave a woman alone who was screeming and holding a man who was bleeding in her arms!

    - Sids 'itching' was so funny!

    - So was Lindsay and Stella's reaction 'Both stylish and comfortable' :lol:. I lved Lindsay in this ep :)

    - The final 'apperence' of Sid was great :lol:


    - When Hawkes/Sid/Danny were in the morge I began to get really anxious becuase I knew who was going to come in [​IMG]

    - :( Carmine played the scene of seeing Reuben great!

    - I agree I saw the similarities with Mac/Lindsay but that scene did seem to look like a uild up to a Lindsay/Danny convo!

    - The scene with the mother was again played great by Carmine- I just wanted to go and hug him! :( I loved how the camera zoomed out as Danny joined Rikki on the floor which portrayed to me how lonely each person felt. I also loved hhow Danny put a large space between him and Rikki which shows how sorry/responsible Danny feels!

    - I loved Flack and Lindsay's convo about LL's!! I loved how it connected to the ending :)

    - Flack/Xray glasses/Nuns :lol:

    - I loved Flack/Lindsay's reaction to Stella's Sea monkeys!

    - Flack's reaction to getting water on him by LL was great :D

    - Anyone know why they were dressed quite casual- Flack and jeans I like it :) But I want one of those jackets :D

    - I loved Lindsay/stella's slow mo run out of there :lol:

    - Did anyone else notice that it suddenly got really dark outside the warehouse!

    - Great jump Flack [​IMG]

    - Did I mention how good Adam looked this week? I think we need more Sid/Adam scenes! (And put them on credits ;))

    - Eye tattoos!?!?! Errr, sounds painful to me!

    - Mac's reatcion to Adam's, 'Places you and I go!' Was funny and lightened the whole Reuben thing for me :)

    - I know this is an odd comment but I loved how Danny called Reuben the kid- Like he was trying to distance himself from the situation!

    - Mac made a great decision in taking the woman to see whta she had done- best way to get someone to regret what they did, I say!

    - I loved everyones amusmant to LL's enjoymeny with that two way mirror.

    - I think the man's story was graet but I didn't like the fact that it can just after Mac's story line :( And i'm sorry LL but Flack is a lot hooet than that guy- you need your eues tested! :eek:

    - Anyway when we saw that man at the beginning did anyone else say say- 'That's him!'

    - I loved the ending scene especially when Danny tried to reach out to Rikki but found himself unable to :(

    Over all it was in my opinion a great ep! And I don't think many of the others on the team could have played the part Danny did, Carmine did great :) It was well written and the best episode of the season (it's a shame it nearly over :()
  12. privatename

    privatename Rookie

    Dec 6, 2006
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    Overall an enjoyable episode. Others have already said many of the things that I was going to say, so I won't bother to rehash. A good solid episode with good scenes for all of the main actors.

    I did want to respond to this because I got the impression your roommate was implying that there are no lawns in Queens. That isn't true. I have a friend that currently lives in Queens, cousins who lived in Queens when we were younger and I dated a guy who grew up in Queens. They were all in different sections of Queens so I know that there are plenty of lawns to mow, especially as you get closer to Long Island. Of course, they are fairly small lawns (at least the ones I have seen) so you would have to mow quite a few to make money. This, of course, doesn't really answer the question of where Flack grew up. I don't think they have made it very clear.
  13. mandy9578

    mandy9578 CSI Level Two

    Jul 12, 2007
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    I give this an A.

    I just loved Carmine's performance in this one. He just about blew me away with his acting. It was like you could feel the grief and disbelief he felt when he saw Ruben's body being rolled in a gurney in the morgue. What a sad sight to behold. The hallway scene with Ruben's mother was heartbreaking as well. It almost made me teary-eyed.

    On a lighter note, I was glad Flack could supply some of the light-hearted aspect of this heavy-on-the-emotion episode. He had me laughing at his retelling of his childhood experience, what with the x-ray glasses and a nun flying at him! :lol: Also it was great learning more about Flack's history. Now we know he went to Catholic school growing up and that he would mow lawns to earn money. Plus, it was great seeing casual Flack. He totally looked scrumptious in jeans! And it was great seeing ninja Flack. :lol:

    Sid was so hilarious in this one! Got victimized with itching powder? Too funny! and classic! :lol:

    What the heck was wrong with Lindsay? I mean, doesn't she have a sensitive bone in her body? I guess not, since Danny didn't even run to her for comfort. And like what most of you have previously mentioned, it's like she wasn't even affected at all. It would have been nice to see her confiding in Flack and Stella what had happened with Ruben but alas we didn't even see that one. It would have made her character more sympathetic.

    All in all, a good episode, just take away the awkward and contrived Lindsay moments.
  14. rhythmbutterfly

    rhythmbutterfly Victim

    Dec 7, 2007
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    Good point, Faylinn. That scene with Mac and Lindsay didn't really prove anything. And we really haven't seen anything this season pointing specifically to a relationship. The closest we've come is the infamous condom-spray scene, but even that could have been friends joking with each other. Or the museum steps when she tickled him, but I've been more affectionate than that with my male friends, so....yeah. Anyway...
  15. Elsie

    Elsie Shopaholic

    Sep 21, 2006
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    I'd give Child's Play an A-. It was great, Carmine played Danny so perfectly. It was terribly sad, especially when Danny went to tell the Rikki (although she said that she was worried, considering the length of time that must have gone on between them leaving at 7.30am and Danny coming back in the dark, I still found it odd that she hadn't tried to call him...). I admit that I did have a little cry. :( If anything though I would have liked to see more of Ruben, although I did get that he and Danny were close, I would have liked a little more of a lead in to it.

    Adam going to see Sid was great, as was his explanation to Hawkes about the eye ball tattooing.

    I also enjoyed the other case too, all the characters were pretty great all round really. Flack was super, awesome, snarky, witty and wore kevlar. :devil: This made me happy. My only issue really was the way that, once again, for ease of story the perp just happened to be in the system (otherwise they would have had no chance of catching him) and of course he admitted to it and even gave a very full explanation of his actions. I know they use this as it is convenient and takes less time, but it was still a bit disappointing.

    Anyway, at the end I thought it was very sad that Danny had lost Ruben and also looked to have lost Rikki as a friend, and I really wonder how much she blames him and if she can forgive? This should play heavily on Danny's mind and his guilt at what happened deserves to be fully explored in the next few weeks. I'll be very disappointed if this storyline isn't played out to it's full potential.

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