"Fallen Idols" Discussion *Spoilers*

Adzix said:


other thing is that ALL of the ships are between the main characters of the show (except GLH). Grissom is everybody's supervisor. it would be the same "unethical" if he had a relationship with any of them then. therefore i don't see any ethical difference between GSR, GCR, YoBling or CatNip
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Good point.

*sigh* I almost feel kinda bad for saying anything at all. Almost.

I'm not trying to belittle anyone or hurt someone by expressing my discontent with certain aspects of the show. In this case, GSR.

Sometimes I feel like it's okay for GSR fans to be upset when someone says they don't like GSR, but it's not okay for me (or others like me) to be upset for expressing their opinion on the matter, especially if it's negative.

I never try to be nasty and I think I give legitimate reasons for my discontent. If I am being unnecessarily rude, then tell me, please.

And no, I don't think it's right for anyone to be malicious by saying "oh gawd, it mad me puke!!11!!11". In fact, that annoys me more when there are no reasons to back up such a statement. Still, if need be, I feel it's okay for users to say "Yes. Yes, while watching that scene, I did die a little inside." I don't think, in that case, they are trying to hurt anyone's feelings or bash anyone. It's just opinion.

I guess one way to fix this would be to take any negative opinions about any ship away from the boards, but honestly, that takes away the fun of debate.
 
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as everyone is entitled to disagree with said opinions, its how you handle them that matters.
 
I don't mind people giving negative opinions about GSR... in fact, if they're polite about giving their opinions and willing to engage in friendly discussion with an old Geek Lover like me, I'm in hog heaven. I'd really like to discuss that ship with an anti-GSR that has an open mind.

The only thing that irks me is when people 1) exaggerate certain aspects of a ship - any ship - that they don't like in a way that is ridiculously illogical and incorrect, but they don't get called on this, or 2) people give their reasons for disliking a ship - any ship - but refuse to acknowledge that this is a subjective opinion coloured by personal values and beliefs and points-of-view, and therefore their dislike of this ship by no means indicates that this ship is wrong in an objective sense... but they don't get called on this either.

As for this episode, it was difficult to put all the pieces together... but not impossible. And really, a part of me likes when I have to put the pieces together myself; I feel less like the show is trying to spoon-feed me then. Same with the end scene... on the surface it feels like a non-sequitur, but when you think about it you realize it fits in with the themes of trust and whether or not photographs capture the essence of a person (or ship).
 
I was just a bit freaked out by the fact that Sara was using a straight razor to shave Gris...those things are deadly! And who actually uses them these days? That's what made it creepy for me...and the added "do you trust me" line...something about the whole scene was just a little too dark for me...
 
So what somebody was trying to say is, if your an entomologist you pretty much avoid human contact with the opposite sex?? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
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I think WP willfully misunderstood the point, OR the interviewer asked the question poorly and then covered it when typing it up.

What the person meant, I thought, was that the entomologist believed the ethical question of dating someone you work with, especially someone below you in rank, brought "shame" to the profession.

I think WP may have tried to make a joke out of it, but I can honestly see that being offensive to him. He does this role, he's WON awards for playing an entomologist FROM entomologists and this fan writes in with a supposed source, and lets him know that now he's disgraced the role.

That's a pretty heavy accusation.

Even so, I don't think an entomologist has a higher code of conduct than any other scientist with this issue. If she had wanted to say, "I contacted my boss and asked..." or something like that, I would understand that a bit more.

Either way, this father-daughter connection with GSR is really starting to get ridiculous. If he was her father, he would've had to impregnate someone in Freshman Year of high school.

While possible, the idea that someone would be a father that young is just as disgusting as these accusations of pseudo-incest.

I think you can dislike the ship without having to bring up the age difference. WP's wife has a bigger age gap from him than Jorja does, and she's still his wife. Chances are he doesn't have a problem with that aspect of the relationship.
 
McStokes said:
I was just a bit freaked out by the fact that Sara was using a straight razor to shave Gris...those things are deadly! And who actually uses them these days?
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HAHA I know right, at first I thought she was putting Just for Men Gel on his beard, not shaving it.
 
sarahvma said:
So what somebody was trying to say is, if your an entomologist you pretty much avoid human contact with the opposite sex?? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
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I think WP willfully misunderstood the point, OR the interviewer asked the question poorly and then covered it when typing it up.

What the person meant, I thought, was that the entomologist believed the ethical question of dating someone you work with, especially someone below you in rank, brought "shame" to the profession.

I think WP may have tried to make a joke out of it, but I can honestly see that being offensive to him. He does this role, he's WON awards for playing an entomologist FROM entomologists and this fan writes in with a supposed source, and lets him know that now he's disgraced the role.

That's a pretty heavy accusation.

Even so, I don't think an entomologist has a higher code of conduct than any other scientist with this issue. If she had wanted to say, "I contacted my boss and asked..." or something like that, I would understand that a bit more.

Either way, this father-daughter connection with GSR is really starting to get ridiculous. If he was her father, he would've had to impregnate someone in Freshman Year of high school.

While possible, the idea that someone would be a father that young is just as disgusting as these accusations of pseudo-incest.

I think you can dislike the ship without having to bring up the age difference. WP's wife has a bigger age gap from him than Jorja does, and she's still his wife. Chances are he doesn't have a problem with that aspect of the relationship.
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excuse me, but the father/daughter think has IS NOT JUST ABOUT AGE. Its their relationship dynamic they have had throughout the show.Plus it doesn't matter what age they actually are, its the age they look. With the beard, he looks like there is a good 30 years between the 2. I have always looked at them with a father/daughter or teacher/student dynamic. What am I not allowed to see it that way now that GSR is on the show? Sara kept acting out for his attention, and him having to discpline her. I am not 'exaggerating', the thought of those too being intimate is sicking to me, that is my opinion. And I don't support G/C on the show either, because it would be unethical. The fact still remains that Grissom has been lecturing the other CSI's about keeping the integrity of the lab for the past 6 seasons, and now he is a big hypocrite. Remember in 'the accused is entitled', the laywer discredited sara's ability just because she had a crush on him...can you imagine what would happen if they found out she dating him??? THis whole thing is just a ratings plot...

Its true about what the other poster said. We are not allowed to disagree with GSR, who decided this was what everyone wanted?? good grief, if we do, we get a huge lecture about why we have to like GSR. You guys can like GSR all you want, but you will never convince me to like it. And it has affected the show in a huge way. Look at all the message boards...especially the CBS one. Is anyone talking about the case?? not much...there are a billion posts analyzing the 30 second scene that had nothing to do with actual case.
 
I think everybody is jumping to conclusions about this. Everyone sees a kiss coming, or something crazy between Grissom & Sara. The relationship is still a secret, the integrity of the lab is still in tack, and the writers could always pull a switch on us and have Grissom deny/breakup with Sara at the end of the Season, or vice versa. So whether you are for GSR or against it, don't get ahead of yourself just yet.
 
mrb105 said:
I think everybody is jumping to conclusions about this. Everyone sees a kiss coming, or something crazy between Grissom & Sara. The relationship is still a secret, the integrity of the lab is still in tack, and the writers could always pull a switch on us and have Grissom deny/breakup with Sara at the end of the Season, or vice versa. So whether you are for GSR or against it, don't get ahead of yourself just yet.
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the fact that it is a secret, tells me that it isn't ethical. It doesn't matter that its hidden, its still hypocritical for Grissom, he knows its unethical, and its way out of character because he is such a stickler for rules. Besides, there is only so long a secret like that could be kept...
 
I understand what you mean. I love Grissom, and it makes me a little mad that he is a little unethical. But you still don't know what is going to happen. He can always retire at the end of the season, which would make the relationship not that big of a deal anymore. So many things can still happen. I just think the writers believe this is what everyone wants to see, and because it has Grissom involved makes it bigger than if it was Nick/Sara, Catherine/Warrick, etc. I still believe Grissom is gonan turn Sara down or something at the end of the season, but that is just my feeling on it.
 
I will be happy if the relationship is over, because I am not watching the show next year if it continues...but I have still lost the respect for Grissom I once had. He jeopordized his integrity and career for this, to me if he was going to retire, then he should have waited. The damage is already done..but I am hoping for an end to it.
 
ATTENTION!!!!
First I am issueing this reminder once again.
Destiny said:
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, as everyone is entitled to disagree with said opinions, its how you handle them that matters.
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Second I am issueing this reminder that all of you are awear of.
When discussing a ship in this forum, the discussion must pertain to that episode only and that scene only, any further discussion of said ship should be taken up in the Shipper Central forum.
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If you don't like a ship thats up to you, if you do like a ship that again is up to you, if you are a fence sitter (ie don't ship at all) that yet again is up to you, but arguing over, bashing, ect. really should be looked at by both parties, if you intend to bash then don't because thats not how it works on this site (everyone knows that if you didn't you do now).
Now if you didn't intend to bash but it was taken out of context a couple suggestions, one look at what you said from not only your view point but that of others, two the other party might want to look at it from the view point of the party that made the comment could it have been misinterrepted. All in all I referre back to the first quote of this post, and then the second quote.

Let me also add in here that there is more to the episode then the "ship" scene or at least thats what I have heard, I applaude those who discuss either the case alone or the entire episode, ect. But I have found that bickering (ie fighting, arguing) can be resolved in one of two ways. Option one agree to disagree and move on, or Option two we (Tally or myself) come in and start bringing out the "Meanie Mod" something we don't like to do but will if we have to.

Now do get me wrong this is a discussion thread but to be honest calm discussions, opinions, ect are good, and were not saying you can't disagree with each other, or have a small debate about it, just try and do so in a friendly fashion is what we are asking.
 
well, the only reason i kept going on the conversation was because several posters mentioned my opinions are wrong, and gave reasons why i should like GSR..and that happens everytime i comment on the GSR scenes in the episodes. I can't say I don't like the scene without getting a lecture.
 
You can say you don't like [insert the ship] (if its per the rules stated), and as long as you give a friendly, understandable reason, then that is your opinion which you are allowed to, though they are allowed to disagree with you, if a conclusion is you all can't agree on something then agree to disagree and let it go, if you (or anyone) find that you are having problems (ie going against the rules), then contact myself or Tally and we will look into it. ;)
 
Did I mention I thought the opening scene was very bizarre, but I ended up liking it as I look back on it. The Evanescence song was a nice touch. The writers are definetly doing things different this season, this isn't classic CSI anymore.
 
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