Episode 8x22 - "Mommie Dearest" - **CONTAINS SPOILERS**

Discussion in 'CSI: Miami' started by FieldMouse, May 9, 2010.

  1. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    Actually, I wish this had been a stand-alone episode that put full focus on the A story. You're right, inthewind. I don't know if it was the sloppy editing or just bad writing and directing, but trying to drop the investigation and all of its components and players, into the A story was disruptive to the overall viewing.

    I'm thinking that the writers on this show really don't understand the art of being subtle. Instead of thinking that your audience needs to be hit with your point with a 2x4, try a subtle approach. Most of us are smart enough to pick up on it! :)
     
  2. Jag Lady

    Jag Lady Lab Technician

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    This is just me, and I know someone had mentioned it in another thread, but does anyone besides me long for the days when there were no "nailbiting" cliffies, when "something you've NEVER SEEN BEFORE" is going to happen (Actually we have, in another form), or when someone DIDN'T get killed off, arrested, or ruined in the name of suspense?

    I just got through watching "Innocent", and even though we know the H/Y/S thing will continue on next season, I got the pleasant feeling of "That's it for the year, folks. Thanks for watching. We'll be back in September with more great episodes."

    Whatever happens next season, I really hope tptb will think about working back toward that.

    If this is off-subject, feel free to move or delete this, but I just think that if you have a good show all through the year, you don't NEED all these "nailbiting" lead-ups to get people tuning in every week or waiting till September.
     
  3. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    I do agree with you, hon. I think the demand to come up with over-the-top exciting way to end the season so that it will bring people back for the next season is a leading cause of the story archs being so lame and just plain bad.

    Every year they promise to make it bigger - and that's not necessarily better. They promise things we've never seen before and it turns out to be the same old repetitive stories with the same characters over and over again. They promise stories for characters that don't deliver and fall completely flat (which is what I'm thinking is going to happen this season).

    It is soap opera drama that causes more yawns then it does excitement.

    I'd love to see endings like "Innocent" or even just a scene like the closing scene of "Death Pool 100" - everyone walking on the beach together as a team looking like they enjoy being in each other's company. No drama. No excitement. Just contentment. :)
     
  4. silentdisco

    silentdisco Police Officer

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    It's not just you, I agree completely. I'm sick of the "we have to make something BAD happen!" attitude going on. I don't mind an occasional cliffhanger, but it's been used to death and then some on this show. [​IMG]

    Me too. I miss the sense of "we're all friends AND coworkers". The end of "Meltdown" was a step in the right direction, but was marred by the underlying "Delko's a spy!" plot. :(
     
  5. Jag Lady

    Jag Lady Lab Technician

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    That and the "Who's betraying the team?" "They'll never be the same!" "Friends will be torn apart forever!" Somebody mind telling me where the "demand" came from?

    Silentdisco, I think that was you who mentioned that in the S5 finale in "Born to Kill". Do people OUTSIDE Hollywood realize that we deal with that stuff enough in RL?? So now we've got backstabbing, mistrust, enemies, broken trust. For God's sake, if I want to experience that, I can go to work and get paid to "live the experience". Is it too much to hope for that they give us a great season and then happily put our team to bed for the summer, ready for more in September?

    That's okay. If things turn out the way I fear they will next week, I'm not even going to hang around and play the guessing game of who lives and who dies. Better yet, I'll make sure there's lots of love and teamwork in my fanfics (Sorry for the plug)
     
  6. jontogoisabeast

    jontogoisabeast Hit and Run

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    I don't think real CSI labs deal with all of this stuff. and after the first 7 or 8 "cliffhangars" it gets kinda boring. But I still like the show and I really liked this episode
     
  7. INACTIVEQuinn Fabray

    INACTIVEQuinn Fabray Lab Technician

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    The thing I don't understand is the whole "the team will be seperated forever" bit and the stuff that you listed.... I'm confused... Isn't the team already split? What more is there to split? :rolleyes: Guess I'll have to wait and see. The demand came out of thin air. Maybe they are listening to us and believed that this is a totally original idea.. yeah writers, that's TOTALLY what we meant by original idea. Ryan being the scape goat, someone betraying the team, the team splitting apart. I've just NEVER seen that on CSI Miami before. [/sarcasm]
     
  8. ruby&theheadmen

    ruby&theheadmen Lab Technician

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    This last episode brought up two issues for me. The first was the idea that two separate story lines, which might have well worked superbly if they stood alone, were unnaturally meshed. I couldn't see any connection between the IA investigation and the abusive situation at all. I hope it is not an old character ie; Ryan, that gets pegged for the absconding of the diamonds- he's been picked on and had his character distorted all season. I would find it interesting and refreshing if one of the new guys happens to be the culprit.

    As for the abusive mother, of course, there is no excuse for her abusive behavior, but the way her children acted towards her made me very unsympathetic for them. I saw the mother trying to set boundaries and rules; she may have been very dysfunctional about it and of course there was NO excuse for her murdering the infant, but yet I could not help but see her as a victim as well- a victim of some very decadent, morally depraved offspring. I found her children to be completely disrespectful towards her; in a day way before my time at age 54, this would have called impertinence, or acting out in an incorrigible way.

    I was repulsed at the son's profanity and the daughter, I could sense that her mother had very good reason for not wanting her to have a boyfriend: (Maybe because she was 17 and thus still a minor? Concerned about premarital sex?). Yet the daughter had the audacity to sneak out of the house to DO as SHE saw fit! I know modern society has put a lot of emphasis on the rights of children to do things their way above and over the parent's role as an authority figure to be obeyed, so many people are going to disagree with me when I surmise that the mother, abhorrent in her abuse still WAS their mother and deserving of being obeyed and respected in those areas of life that needed boundaries.

    The son to me was a cold, calculated murderer; a depraved being. He knew he had choices from the moment he saw that couch was stained with his ink; if he feared being physically attacked by his mother, he could have run away, he could have called the police- he did NOT have to sneak up behind his mother, who was not attacking him and KILL HER! I don't see Horatio's situation with his father in the same light, he saw his mother, helpless after an attack with an aggressive attacker and dealt with him in the open; he didn't sneak behind his father when his father was just arguing and had not bodily injured anyone and just kill him. In my eyes, Horatio just saw the youth as other younger man who had crossed the line of no return, which is attempted murder or in this case murder.

    I remember well the Rio episode, him telling Ray Jr. not to kill the drug dealer, not to shoot the drug dealer and even from the past, being grateful that his nephew had always chosen not kill or be a part of the killing (Hell Night, I think that was what that episode was called). No, the Horatio I see only is saddened by a young life thrown away by their choosing; even with the youngest killers ( a boy named Tim and the IRS man) he reminded everyone that the child HAD taken a human life... an unarmed, human life and that only some mitigating circumstances would relieve some of the punishment, but nevertheless the child would have to live with the fact for ever of the immorality of wantonly taking human life.

    To some this may only be a fictional show and it is, but yet it reflects an amorality that is quite disturbing, especially when few see the mother as a victim and attempt to find some excuse for the children's behavior. What I took from this episode is the fact that I am grateful that I do not have children, nor grandchildren. Suffering from abuse is no excuse for murder and murderers in the CSI world do not get sympathy no matter what noble excuse they may provide for their behavior. That is what the show teaches, that is what I hope others, besides myself come away with when they watch.

    It seems however, from the comments it looks like the modern non-standards of the day apply.

    An aside, I found the explosion to be quite anti-climatic: how many times can Eric look like someone who is not all quite there- or is he always supposed to look and act not all quite there? It's getting rather boring.... he's been in so many explosions you'd think that he not Horatio had been a member of the bomb squad. Also, Rick was quite out of character and I wish he and Horatio would verbally fence off again- it seems that Horatio really gets the upper hand in those encounters by arguing back, but using a very seductive come hither voice, seductive even in annoyance that seems to never fail to have a chemical (can you say pheromone? LOL!) effect on our IAB Lieutenant.
     
  9. csi_miami_babe

    csi_miami_babe Rookie

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    I enjoyed this episode, it was better than some of the episodes we've gotten this season. I like that Walter gave Eric a piece of his mind instead of letting himself be walked over. It seems like Eric is in for one heck of a verbal lashing from his friends after they all find out he's spying on them. If their reactions are anything like Walter's then Eric better be prepared.

    I felt so bad for that woman's children! At first I thought it was the boyfriend that did it, but we know how that turned out! I guess it's a good thing Horatio was going to help the son stay out of prison, he was just a little kid who was tortured by his mom. Speaking of Horatio, he and Natalia were great with the kids in this episode! Natalia really seems to understand children and of course Horatio's always been good with kids.

    I felt bad for Jesse when the husband asked him if he had any idea what it was like to lose his wife. You can tell by how his gaze darkened that he's still haunted by his wife's murder.

    Next week's promo shows that Ryan knows what Eric's been up to, so I'm thinking Walter told Ryan what went on with Rebecca and now it's Ryan's turn to be pissed at Eric for screwing up. On the Canadian promo Walter says, "Some team." I completely agree with him!
     
  10. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    I was cheering for Walter as well. And I hope that Eric gets to experience what it's like to take responsibility for his actions.

    I would hope that this would help to bring Eric and his "holier than thou" attitude down a few notches. Perhaps he'll now be able to understand and sympathize with how Natalia felt when they all came down on her (Eric actually used their brief intimate relationship against her by telling her FBI superiors that she used sex to get information - what a lowlife!). I would also hope that he will start to understand how his never-ending ostracism of Ryan, is unwarranted, inexcusable and beyond unfair.

    Eric has screwed up in more ways than any CSI should be allowed and keep his job and he's never been held accountable because Calleigh and Horatio baby him and cover for him. Ryan has always taken responsibility for his mistakes and has never allowed others the pay (i.e. Calleigh re-taking her proficiencies to cover for Eric and he allowed her to do it).
     
  11. GregNickRyanFan

    GregNickRyanFan Holographic Moderator Moderator

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    The little boy said his mom said that there was something wrong with him. That's classic psychological/verbal abuse right there. I don't think there was anything at all wrong with the children except that they had horrible parents. The mother was the worst of the worst. And the father was, a freaking wimp! It's like, be a man for God's sake! There are women who for the sake of their children find the guts to grab their kids and leave their absuive husbands. Why couldn't this father do the same thing? He didn't stand up for his children until it was way too late. At the end when he stood up and said, "arrest me, not my son"... I thought, "Oh NOW you want to be a responsible father and protect your child? Not when it would have mattered?" In my opinion, the father should have been arrested for child endangerment. He knew how the mother was, yet he went out of town for business (instead of having a job that kept him in the same city) and left the kids alone with that horrible excuse for a mother and human being? I don't think you can even call her human. Calleigh said it all, "The father wasn't the monster, the mother was."

    Well, the father was a still a horrible father who was too chicken to stand up to his wife and protect those children. If he was any kind of man or any kind of father, he would have grabbed the kids and left or called the police and told them what was going on. I agree with Ryan and Natalia. It was justifiable homicide. If it were an actual case, I'm pretty sure the boy would not go to jail. Maybe he'd have to get some psychiatric help (the girl too), but not jail because he was afraid for his life. He was afraid of what his mother would do to him. And the cops were of no help when they were called. They believed the mother instead of investigating the claims further (those cops should be reprimanded IMO). If they had thoroughly investigated the girl's claims of abuse then the little boy wouldn't have felt that his only recourse for himself and his sister was to stop the mother himself. Those particular cops dropped the ball on that one. They let the mother charm them into believing the daughter was just lying because she was mad at her.

    The daughter sneaking out didn't surprise me as that is typical teenage behavior. I understand parents being concerned about their kids possibly having sex (re: the mom in the flashback telling the girl "I know what you and that boy do together") and all of that, but everyone who is anyone knows that nine times out of ten if you forbid a child to do anything (especially telling them they cannot see their bf/gf), they're going to go do it anyway. That is classic kid reaction since the dawn of time. What the mother should have done instead is say, "Okay, you can see him, but only when I or your Dad is here. And when your boyfriend is here, he can be in your room, but you must leave the door open." That is the way that I was raised. And guess what? It worked. I didn't sneak off. But if you tell a kid "you can't see your bf", then they are more likely to sneak off and most likely are going to have sex (sometimes as a way of rebelling against their parents).

    I'm sorry, but I have absolutely NO sympathy for a mother who pushes her daughter's face down in the dog bowl or handcuffs her to the bed (okay I kind of get locking her in her room for a time, putting bars on the windows so she can't sneak out... but the hand-cuffing is going way too freaking far IMO) or makes her small child drink lighter fluid and expects it not to hurt him. That woman did NOT deserve to be a mother IMHO. I have no sympathy ever for anyone who abuses their own children or who hurts children in general. In my opinion, she deserved to suffer as she made her children suffer. Dying was too quick for her. She deserved to suffer for years upon years upon years for the way she abused her children. But she'd have eternal suffering because there's a special place in Hell for people who abuse children, especially their own.

    Having said that, I lost a few sympathy points for the daughter when she admitted that she was the one who burned the carpet and knowing how awful her mother was, she didn't speak up and admit it to her mother and instead let her baby brother be punished for something he didn't do... and that innocent little boy lost his life because of it. So yeah, sympathy points for the daughter went down somewhat on that knowledge.

    As for Cody, that poor little boy was so afraid of his mother I'm surprised he didn't pee his pants in her presence. I'm not 100% sure he intended to kill her at first though. He only hit her in the back until she turned and lunged at him like some wild animal... after that it was about self-defense in my opinion. I place the blame almost solely on the father though (well, besides the mother of course). If he had stepped up to the plate like a real man and protected his children, his baby boy wouldn't be dead and his other son wouldn't have felt the need to take action himself. I'm sorry, but I have no sympathy whatsoever for that mother. And if I were on the jury for that boy, I was vote not guilty by reason of emotional and physical distress. That's exactly what it was too.

    That little boy was abused not only physically, but mentally, emotionally, psychologically... Unless you've been mentally, emotionally and psychologically abused, you cannot understand what that can do to one's psyche. Trust me, I know. I've been there (from a bf). I didn't react to it the way this boy did, but I was also older and my brain was more fully developed than a child's would be. Being abused messes heavily with your psyche. A child of this boy's age, their brain has not fully developed yet. They haven't fully developed the rational part yet. They aren't fully capable of making rational decisions based on good logic. Their logic isn't fully developed yet at that age (unless they are advanced for their ages like Doogie Howser or something).

    A child is not going to always think rationally in that kind of situation. The only thing he could think of was "what kind of punishment is she going to give me? shove a pen in my throat or through my hand". He couldn't think things like "well I should run away". When your psyche has been damaged as his clearly was, you don't have the ability to think rationally. The boy was paralyzed by fear and hypnotized by it as well, that caused a reaction in his brain for self preservence. All he could think of was, "no one is going to stop her, she's going to keep hurting me and my sister and no one is going to do anything about it". That kind of fear is gripping and somewhat crippling. It clutches onto to your very being and it smothers you, you cannot get out from under it. He didn't have the ability to think rationally because he was so gripped with the fear of what his mom would do to him. In his mind, it was self-defense even if it was before the fact. He was a broken, damaged, hurt, terrified, tortured, horribly abused little boy.

    This boy was tired of being abused and tired of the fact that his other parent didn't stand up and put a stop to it. That father knew very well what was going on and he could have done something to stop it and it he did NOTHING. NOTHING! Wimpy little thing that he was. He wasn't a man and he certainly wasn't a good father. The kid even said that his father was afraid of the mother too. That's right, he was too afraid to stand up to her, afraid she'd hurt him, so instead he let his children be hurt by her. Pathetic!

    The little boy's head was messed up as a result of the horrible abuse he suffered at the hands of his mother. In the flashback scene, when his sister came out there, he looked at his mom and said, "what did I do? we have to call 911." That shows remorse and that he didn't really know what he was doing. Sometimes when you're so tired of the abuse and just feeling like no one is trying to help you, protect you, one can become so consumed with rage that they sort of black-out. I don't mean black out as in pass out, I mean black out as in the anger overtakes them and it's like the person is trapped within themselves and is unconscious while the anger is in control. A child would not have as much of a capacity to understand that or control that as well as an adult might. Their brains haven't fully developed yet.

    Okay, on to other parts of the episode:

    :lol: at Ryan's expression when the woman said the mother was jealous. I have to put a little blame on this woman too. She saw how the kid flinched when she reached out to him, she should have gone and talked to someone about that. At the very least alerted Social Services and had them check into the parents.

    Rick: I do look good on camera. :lol: That was a little OOC, but nicely delivered.

    I don't trust Sully. He seems rather suspicious to me.

    Cody: "She would get so mad and her face would get so ugly." I don't know why, but that line made me laugh (the last part anyway).

    That little boy is a very good actor though. As someone else said, he's excellent when he's on Supernatural as young Sam. But he was awesome here as well.
     
    Last edited: May 13, 2010
  12. Delynn

    Delynn CSI Level One

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    Wow. What a great post. Not only wouldn't I change a word, I have very little to add.

    The scenario with the children calling the police and the police believing the parent, with no investigation, is real. I know. I've been there. It was very hard to watch because I know the fear of dealing with the ramifications of such a call - after the police leave. you'll never make that mistake again - I promise you!

    And you also are overwhelmed with a total and complete sense of helplessness. You realize that there is no one who is going to stop the abuse. No one is going to believe you. You're on your own and desperation is all there is left and it's all-consuming. It's a feeling you just can't know unless you've experienced it.

    Those actors did an exceptional job portraying the fear and hopelessness a child in that position experiences.

    I have no sympathy whatsoever for either the mother or the father. She WAS a monster of the worst order. And to know that kind of abuse is happening to helpless children and not step in, and to know that they are your OWN children, that father is beneath pond scum. He should rot in jail for being a spinless coward.

    The mother deserved everything she got and your right, GNRF. Once she lunged at Cody he was fighting for his safety. It was self-defense. The mother had established a pattern of behavior that made it acceptable for Cody to be in fear of his life. He had already witnessed his mother kill their younger brother.

    Both children need to be taken away from that sorry excuse for a father and placed in a loving, violence free environment where they are respected and properly cared for.
     
  13. CSI-AJ

    CSI-AJ Lab Technician

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    Some good points. I don't know how the children could be seen as the problem. The punishment didn't fit the crime so to speak.
     
  14. GregNickRyanFan

    GregNickRyanFan Holographic Moderator Moderator

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    I didn't mean for my post to sound so ranty, but there were kids that I was close to when I was younger who were abused by a parent or another adult who was supposed to protect them (kids I went to school with and all)... so this episode hit a little close to home for me.

    Agreed. There is NOTHING that those kids could have done that would make them deserve what that mother did to them. That woman needed psychiatric help for sure. Not to mention anger management courses. But honestly she needed to be locked in the slammer for the rest of her miserable existence.
     
  15. greatfan

    greatfan Captain

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    It didn't sound ranty at all.I could tell it was something that was close and personal for you.
     

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