Does Danny Seek Out Abuse?

[Top41]

It seems to me that Danny is constantly seeking out situations or relationships where he's mistreated in some way or another. In season one, he constantly sought approval from Mac, but also constantly disobeyed him, setting up several situations where Mac yelled at or chastised him (Crime & Misdemeanor, On the Job). Seeking approval made sense--Danny seems desperate for a father figure--but the disobedience simply set him up for failure.

In season three, Danny responded to Lindsay's obvious interest in him in the previous season by trying to pursue a relationship with her. She turned him down for a Lame Plot Device reason (an unrealistic obstacle to keep them apart), but he continued to support her and be there for her (Oedipus Hex, Sleight Out of Hand) even though she offered him nothing in return and in fact, used him to do part of her job that she found unpalatable (telling the mother her daughter had died in Oedipus Hex). They got together in the finale and again Danny did something nice for her--switching shifts. It wasn't her fault, but he sure paid for that, and in the end her main focus was herself and her feelings.

During that ordeal, Danny created a diversion for Adam to get a solution from his kit, but even after Adam had the solution, Danny taunted his captors. He didn't need to--he was facing the direction Adam was in and could see that Adam had retrieved what he needed to. But Danny kept it up, which of course just led them to beat him further.

To me, all of that behavior reads as pretty messed up--Danny seems to be someone who's deeply damaged and seeks out people and situations that get him hurt. He even goes so far as to make sure it turns out that way--defying Mac, doing way more for Lindsay than she'd ever do for him, taunting his captors needlessly--making it easy for him to blame himself for what happens to him. What do you guys think?

 

[CrushinOnMesser]

Danny Messer is a great character and this proves it. He's developed enough that we have a sense of who he is and where he comes from but he still enigmatic. He's not perfect or ideal. He's realistic and believable. We just can't have enough of him.

Top41:
Seeking approval made sense--Danny seems desperate for a father figure--but the disobedience simply set him up for failure.

I definately got that idea of Danny admiring Mac, until now. It got to the point that Danny really wanted to impress Mac. He wants Mac to know that he can handle himself and he does everything to earn his trust. He risked a lot of things, including his disapproval, for that chance that he actually approves of him. He puts himself in tight situations where he's either praised or punished and most of the time he's punished.

But there have been rare moments that he's swallowed his pride and put his trust in Mac. (Run Silent, Run Deep) Danny handed the evidence, evidence that could point him as a suspect. That took maturity and courage. It showed the he learned his lessons (Crime and Misdemeanor, On the Job).

Top41:
In season three, Danny responded to Lindsay's obvious interest in him in the previous season by trying to pursue a relationship with her. She turned him down for a Lame Plot Device reason (an unrealistic obstacle to keep them apart), but he continued to support her and be there for her (Oedipus Hex, Sleight Out of Hand) even though she offered him nothing in return and in fact, used him to do part of her job that she found unpalatable (telling the mother her daughter had died in Oedipus Hex).

In this case, either he's in love with her (doubt it), or he's just stubborn, because those are the only reasons why I could ever think he is interested in Lindsay.

The truth is, I think the writers created this cute "boy-likes-girl" shoreline because they needed to point the spotlight to her. She's a little dull and under develop and pairing her with a crowd favorite could improve things, which in a lot of ways did. This generated fans for the lovely young couple.

Top41:
To me, all of that behavior reads as pretty messed up--Danny seems to be someone who's deeply damaged and seeks out people and situations that get him hurt. He even goes so far as to make sure it turns out that way--defying Mac, doing way more for Lindsay than she'd ever do for him, taunting his captors needlessly--making it easy for him to blame himself for what happens to him. What do you guys think?

He's definitely a deep character. He has issues and flaws that really show. I think he has a very strong personality. He's a little egotistical in a way that he really sees things in "how HE could help" or "what HE could do". I think it is easier for him to think how everything affects him or how he could affect everything. In this case, its just easier to blame himself.

 

[MichelleK]

It would have made alot of sense if the Danny that we saw in season 3 had changed to seek approval from Mac. His calmer, maturer ways could have seen him get his foot back on the promotionsl grid. Him changing for Lindsay still baffles me.
It seems that Danny has always been let down by everyone and no matter what he does, it always comes back to haunt him. Maybe the way he is with Mac, Lindsay and pretty much everyone else seems to be how far can he go and how nice can he be without being let down. Maybe he thinks one of these days he'll do something for someone and it won't have dire consequences.
I hope that makes sense.

 

[nattybatty55]

It seems that Danny has always been let down by everyone and no matter what he does, it always comes back to haunt him

I agree! Like michellle said I thought that Danny would try in season 3 to prove to Mac he dearves to be on the promotional grid!

 

[Sammy11]

For me at least Danny is a classic case of someone who suffers from low self esteem, him seeking approval from someone like Mac (who himself was trying to cope with the loss of his wife, and was presented to us as perhaps a little unstable himself) is important, he needs to know that he counts, he wants to know he is worth something, but his ability to screw it up his self perpetuated, he proves himself right by letting people down (hope that makes sense) proving to himself he is a big fat screw up and not worth anything. His question to Mac about "Are we ok?", we know what he wanted to hear, and for someone like Danny the reply must have been more painful than anything that he suffered in the beating he took in the Finale of Season 3.

He may come across as cocky and so self assured but we can see it is an act. He doesn't want to appear weak, as weak as he truly believes he is, the off key jokes he cracks in season 1 (very early on) say to me that he is deflecting his own inadequaces, whether they exist to other people or not.

Low self esteem sufferers don't mope about telling people how unworthy they are but you can see it in there actions, season 3 we've seen the puppy-dog act, that need to be excepted and loved, dogs don't bite the hand that feeds them as it were. Lindsey gives Danny the approval he seeks (as does Flack but that is a totally different story ) but everytime she pushed him away it made him try harder to be liked. Plus he probably felt very similar to Lindsey, they are both a little screwed up, both are eager to please, both want to be(and can be)tough but neither of them are totally sure they've been accepted into the environment they have fought to be in. Lindsey is supposed to be the fish out of water and Danny with his past and family connections.

His relationship with Adam is very telling, Adam is presented (fabulously may I add) as the typical geeky lab tech, we know that he has been bullied by his father and that he allows people to treat him how they want to. Danny is close to Adam, in season 3 we see them interact on a very (cute) geeky, buddy level and I think perhaps Danny likes Adam (even tease Adam a little) because he knows Adam will give back but not belittle him (also Danny didn't know about Adam's dad, the teasing seemed to stop after that). I think part of Danny's protective instinct kicks in around Adam, in the Season 3 finale he looked so upset to see his friend in pain that he risked a lot (his life probably) to save him and the others. Danny ultimately believe he is worth the sacrafice, maybe he did it cos he knew that he was tougher (physically and mentally, i wouldn't want a friend who i know had sufffered abuse to go through a beating, plus Adam had already been tortured) than Adam in that situation.

I think by far the healthiest relationships Danny has are with Flack, Hawkes and Stella. He laughs and jokes with them, seeks advice, Hawkes is clearly Messers agony aunt for relationship issues, Stella gives him the encouragement and direction he lacks from Mac in the work place, Flack is the man he truns to in a cisis, we only see Danny truly relax around Flack, open up say how he really feels. Flack also seems to have a very calming effect on Danny in the pool/ bar scene we see them chat in a very natural way and at no point does danny totally flip but again we hear him question why he does the job? he almost wants to be recognised for what he does, its the approval thing again. The most telling thing is all these people are actually the least messed up, yes Stella has been through the mill a bit (understatment of the Year!!) but she is always presented as a fighter, she tough, yes she gets scared but ultimately she believe in herself. They are confident, self assured, stand up for themselves, don't take no kinda shit sort of people and i think Danny knows thats what he wants to be.

Thats my take on things. Sorry for the Mammoth post!!

 

[chaostheory08]

Seems to me he's on a downward spiral.

In season one, he constantly sought approval from Mac, but also constantly disobeyed him, setting up several situations where Mac yelled at or chastised him (Crime & Misdemeanor, On the Job). Seeking approval made sense--Danny seems desperate for a father figure--but the disobedience simply set him up for failure.

Season one supported the initial information that he's a mafia kid who has to prove something -- especially living up to being 'hand-picked' by Mac to be on his team. It was a rocky and very interesting/engaging relationship. It was a lesson learned for Danny and point proven for Mac (that Danny's determined and headstrong).

In season three, Danny responded to Lindsay's obvious interest in him in the previous season by trying to pursue a relationship with her. She turned him down for a Lame Plot Device reason (an unrealistic obstacle to keep them apart), but he continued to support her and be there for her (Oedipus Hex, Sleight Out of Hand) even though she offered him nothing in return and in fact, used him to do part of her job that she found unpalatable (telling the mother her daughter had died in Oedipus Hex). They got together in the finale and again Danny did something nice for her--switching shifts. It wasn't her fault, but he sure paid for that, and in the end her main focus was herself and her feelings.

This is the part that I found completely pointless. Try cutting all that part out, and the season would have still worked. Danny could get in trouble (nonetheless) with more convincing circumstances/situations. Lindsey could have straightened her issues (Katum, etc. -- with is totally irrelevant to her dislike of tackling the 'mother' case) on her own (like everybody in the show has with their own issues).

Danny Messer is a great character and this proves it.

Yeah, and Carmine rises up to the challenge to portray such.

I guess Danny's the kind of person who needs verbal assurance. Prolly low self-esteem -- but this is where it gets conflicting. He's this headstrong, loud-mouthed guy... is it just a front to hide something painful? In his past, maybe?

I agree that his healthiest relationship on the show is his friendship with Flack. They seem to balance each other off (or Flack settling Danny down). They seem to understand each other.

 

[Joolz]

I'm not necessarily sure that he deliberately seeks out abuse. I think he's more of a case of trying to prove himself too much, trying to get away from the past and generally all around trying too hard. He sees Mac and aspires to emulate him, without the past events under his belt that have shaped Mac into the person he now is. Danny's from a totally different place than Mac, he has the closest dynamic with Don, making him a close friend and confidante. I think the bravado does cover up a lot of insecurity and with Lindsey he seems to have gravitated more towards her after she initially put the brakes on the relationship. Danny doesn't want to see himself failing, in any aspect of his life. He probably thinks he failed Louie and in failing Louie also failed his family and he won't let that happen again, so things that may seem impossible he will strive to make them possible, automatically setting himself up for a fall. Kinda like..some you win, some you lose but at least I tried my heart out...

 

[kissmesweet]

It seems that Danny has always been let down by everyone and no matter what he does, it always comes back to haunt him

Oh poor Danny... Hmmm, Top41: your post has me agreeing with you actually. Your argument was coherent and cogent. (You should be debating more often. :lol Maybe he does somehow need abuse. I love the guy, but he's sounding kind of screwed up to me now. rofl

 

[CrushinOnMesser]

kissmesweet:
I love the guy, but he's sounding kind of screwed up to me now.

I feel really bad for all the s**t he's gone through and I'm sure he'll go through some more in future seasons.

But I have to admit... I like screwed up Danny (guilty pleasure :devil. He's jsut so interesting and entertaining. I love seeing him develop more. He's so FUN to watch.

Sammy11:
I think by far the healthiest relationships Danny has are with Flack

I agree 100% . Danny has more chemistry with Flack than with Lindsay. They have such a great balanced friendship. Their backgrounds contrast each other very well (Prince and Pauper) which makes their frienship much more genuine.

I know its highly improbable but... Dan&Don can have a great "more than friends" relationship :devil:.

 

[MacsGirlMel]

I'm slightly confused...what was unrealistic about the plot device? I'm just trying to understand the whole explanation given but not sure about that part.

 

[chaostheory08]

MacsGirlMel said:
I'm slightly confused...what was unrealistic about the plot device? I'm just trying to understand the whole explanation given but not sure about that part.

That all the bad things are happening to Danny. Well, him more than the others.

I know its highly improbable but... Dan&Don can have a great "more than friends" relationship :devil: .

Hmmm...... :lol: I was about to say something but.... nevermind. :devil:

 

[MichelleK]

You have to feel bad for him though - I mean the stuff he's gone through that we know of:

1 - He busted his arm and couldn't play pro baseball.
2 - Grew up under police surveaillance
3 - Shot a undercover cop - Minhas
4 - Louie was a Tanglewood Boy/all the crap with Sonny Sassone
5 - Louie gets beaten to try and save Danny's career after Danny became implicated in an old case that Tanglewood caused.
6 - Aiden died.
7 - Flack got blown up.
8 - He got taken off the promotional grid after all his hard work
9 - All the crap with Lindsay
10 - Being taken hostage and having a serious injury after offering to cover someone's shift.

Poor guy really doesn't have much luck and that's only the stuff I can think of from the top of my head.

 

[Messers_cupcake]

I don't know if he's seeking it out but it really haunts HIM... everytime when something bad happens he's the one who has to suffer. He tries to prove himself, show others that he's good because of his past and many other things but it always comes back to him. It's really terrible. This man doesn't have luck at all. everything he's doing has negative consequences for him. He can't even be in a relationship because he gets hut the whole time and IMO he's treated in a way he doesn't deserve. After the last episodes of season two I've expected even a small break down but he's acted like nothing happened... after this three years... Such experience have a damaging effect on a person's psyche so I just wait when we will see it because one day everyone breaks... I don't say he's weak but no one is so strong and 'Snow day' will have nasty consequences for him too...

 

[kimmycarmine]

well i think he's the person who tries to prove his worth but nobody seems to appreciate it because of his past.. and that's one thing he can't escape..

*sigh*

its really hard to please everyone..

 

[Top41]

Great points folks! I do think Danny is kind of a victim character in that he sets himself up for hurt (in his relationships with Mac and Lindsay) and also seems to find himself in trouble or danger a fair amount (he is the show's damsel in distress, after all ).

I definitely agree that he's got low self-esteem. I don't think Danny thinks too much of himself--with both Mac and Lindsay, he'd press the issue earnestly and then kind of give up. I also find it interesting that in their relationship, Lindsay has been the one to make the sexual overtures--she pulled him in to kiss him, she initiated sex. I think Danny is more comfortable when she takes the lead--he went after her in "Love Run Cold" because she pulled back, but until then it seemed like she was the one making the moves (asking him to drinks and stuff like that).

With Mac, Danny would try to please him and then end up going against what Mac wanted. He'd try to defend himself half-heartedly when Mac laid into him, but after an initial burst he'd just give up and kind of take it.

I think looking out for Adam was a way of looking out for the weaker side of himself. I do think knowing what he knows about Adam's father played into it, but I suspect Danny was also a victim of abuse of some sort, and he figured if one of them was going to take a beating, it might as well be him.

So yeah, he is pretty screwed up. :lol: I think it makes him more interesting though.