Do you believe in God?

[allmaple]

I do have a question about evolution (if that isn't taboo in the sense that it isn't "religious"). I have read two books on the matter for Biology last year. They were Darwin's Black Box by Michael Behe and Darwin on Trial by Philip E Johnson. And I was wondering how things like the blood clotting system would have evolved step by step when without each of the components the entire system would fail.

If that question isn't pertinent in here, then that's okay. I was just wondering.

I hope you have a great day

first of all i would recommend not listening to michael behe, but thats just me. i find him to be a moron. every claim of his regarding irreducible complexity has been shown to be false. also if you can find the documentary "flock of dodos: the evolution and intelligent design circus" i would highly recommend it. although the film maker is an evolutionary biologist, he does let people from the other side have their moment.

you can look at the website here for more info.

 

[talkingtocactus]

i think the best thing is to just read "on the origin of species" itself. sure it's a bit dry in parts and quite long but it's a lovely explanation. also "darwin's dangerous idea" by daniel dennett is worth a try, i had to do it for my degree (as part of a course on the history of science) and it was quite good summary and also i focusses quite a bit on the biology implications so might be useful in that sense to.

 

[Ginnna]

Ooooh I like Daniel Dennett; I own and have read his book Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon. I really liked it and have been wanting to read Darwin's Dangerous Idea ever since... just haven't gotten around to it since I'm incredibly lazy!

But yeah, Ghostbuster, I wouldn't trust Behe as far as I can throw him. At this point, ESPECIALLY after the smackdown he got at the Kitzmiller *v* Dover trial, he's got to know that Intelligent Design *aka* Creationism Repackaged isn't scientific at all, and that denying large scale evolutionary change is tantamount to not understanding it in the first place... which must be embarrassing for a guy who's supposed to be a biochemist!

Richard Dawkins, despite being something of a bully when it comes to theology, and something of an amateur when it comes to philosophy, still definitely "gets it right" when it comes to evolution. You should check out his books The Selfish Gene, Unweaving the Rainbow and his latest publication, The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution.

When Behe and others like him talk about the so-called "problem" of things like the human eye, bacterial flagellum and the blood clotting cascade evolving without "intelligent direction", they're talking about the concept of "irreducible complexity". Click on those words to read an entirely decent and well sourced Wiki entry on that concept.

 

[Vildis]

Okay, I am really interested in these books that you are discussing at the moment. I have read "on the origin of species" by Darwin. If I shall read the other books, I have to get the books in english. I am just curious if the books are full of scientific information, and may be difficult to understand?

This is really off topic, but I would like to know, and be able to read the books before I join the discussion (if it's still alive later).

 

[talkingtocactus]

^ tbh it's been so long since i read dennett that i can't remember, but i don't think it was....

Richard Dawkins, despite being something of a bully when it comes to theology, and something of an amateur when it comes to philosophy, still definitely "gets it right" when it comes to evolution. You should check out his books The Selfish Gene, Unweaving the Rainbow and his latest publication, The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution.

yeah, richard dawkins is a bit too strident sometimes - my dad loathes him because he feels like he's being hit over the head with a big stick when he listens to him, and he says he can't write (i don't think his writing is that bad tbh but i've long since given up arguing with my dad, it's like bashing my head on a very big brick wall). however, as i've tried to explain to my dad dawkins is, first and foremost, a geneticist, and when it comes to that he really is quite brilliant.

 

[robotnik22]

I believe in God and believe that He gave His only son to save us from our sins because He loved us. Unfortunately, I refuse to go to church because most of the churches are so stuck on preaching about sins that they forget to preach about God's love. It makes me sad. Oh well, I'll just read my bible and worship my own way.

I only have one rule when it comes to religion: respect my beliefs and I'll respect yours. It's that simple for me.

I am a believer in God and i believe that he loves everybody no matter what and i agree with you porcelaindoll, that the churches are stuck on preaching at us about sin. I respect everyone no matter what their beliefs are.

 

[crazy_steph]

I don't believe in God at all, however I am spirtiual I don't think that 'dead is dead' I'd like to think then when I'm no longer here I will get to see the people I leave behind and meet up with the people that I've already lost.

I also have no problem with what other people believe its what makes us what we are

 

[talkingtocactus]

christ i hope dead is dead. if i had to do all this again... *words fail*

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

Yeah, I believe. I selected the second option, though how does one mean my 'Live Religiously'? I follow the principles and teachings of my church, but I wouldn't call myself devout. I can't shrug off what I've been taught but I don't necessarily follow it as well as I should.

 

[Ginnna]

I just wanted to say that I didn't expect to come across so many atheists on this board. I'm used to everyone and everything around me being religious (i.e. Christian) so it's strange and kind of a relief to know that there are more atheists out there than I realize.

 

[Vildis]

Spooky:

Perhaps because there are members who come from different places here? I think it depends on where you come from. I have no idea, but I have always been told that there are many believers in countries like United States and the countries which is included in "Middle East" and Africa.

Most people around me are atheists. I just think I know two who are religious, I can't think of anyone else but these 2.

 

[Ginnna]

Most people around me are atheists. I just think I know two who are religious, I can't think of anyone else but these 2.

My WORD, that seems strange to me! My parents are Catholic, my sister is Catholic, my brother is lazy and doesn't go to church but still believes, and my sister, while she doubts the divinity of Jesus, still believes in a higher power. My friends are religious (except for one), my relatives are religious (except for one), and there's just this general assumption that practically everyone you meet believes in something & practices some religion.

 

[_Hush_]

I think most people around me are agnostics. My parents believe there's 'something'. Most of my friends also believe that 'something higher' is there to guide you, something that makes you wonder about the world. I blame my curious nature for that.

I've got two friends of who I know definitely believe in the Christian god. They go to church (which is a rarity here) and pray.
I've got a few muslim friends, and none of them even doubts the fact that there is a God. It's funny to see the difference between those brought up with a christian background and those brought up with a muslim background.

Although it's quite accepted to be an atheist here, I haven't met that many of them. That is, the ones that have really thought things through. And not because 'it's uncool to believe in God so I'm an atheist', that kind of atheists.

 

[Vildis]

Well, my mum is a christian and one of my best friend is a muslim. I don't really see a difference between them. Just that muslims usually keep their faith no matter what, while christians (like me, and many others around me) lose their faith when they grow older and become either agnostics or atheists.

It's accepted being religious here and believe in anything (doesn't matter which religion), although some religions are quite hated here. But it's just because people are biased and do not know anything about that particular religion and lifestyle.

I didn't even know that people are atheists because it's cool? Well, I can always count teenagers but they often do/say/think things because it's cool so I don't take them seriously.

 

[PraetorCorvinus]

I have a friend who is Indian (though raised in between London and Boston) who was Muslim but is now Agnostic bordering on Atheist. He's the only person I've ever met who had essentially given up on Islam. Were you to meet him, you'd swear his god was Spider-man (I'm not kidding). His wife was Protestant but she's now Agnostic also.