Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Part 2

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

So for the many of us that don't like GSR and can see that there is absolutely no romantic chemistry between them.

Here's a little article that agrees with us.

http://tvdonewright.com/2011/02/love-stinks-tvdonewright-com-tv-worst-couples-today/

The mention the age difference. That doesn't bother me so much as Grissom ended up being like a father figure to Warrick, Sara, Nick, and Greg and well, it just seems wrong.

If they had been planning to get those two together, tptb waited too long for it to be believable.

But this person was dead on with the chemistry thing. And no matter what Sara said in the 'Two Mrs. Grissoms' that is not a marriage that will last. Modern marriage my...well you know.

 

[Desertwind]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Apparently THEY see and have the chemistry, that's what counts, they did get married. It's if for instance I love Bill and he loves Betty, but I don't see anything between them at all, but they do!!! On GSR, Jorja Fox was brought on the show to be Grissom's love interest from the onset said Billy Petersen. It never changed but grew and progressed and ended up with them as a married couple and their still together if not everyday, it's "unconventional" as Sara termed it. But, still as a married couple as we saw in "The Two Mrs. Grissom's"Their have been romantic parings that I see zilch between them, but to each one's own and again "different strokes", and whatever works~

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Apparently THEY see and have the chemistry, that's what counts, they did get married. It's if for instance I love Bill and he loves Betty, but I don't see anything between them at all, but they do!!! On GSR, Jorja Fox was brought on the show to be Grissom's love interest from the onset said Billy Petersen. It never changed but grew and progressed and ended up with them as a married couple and their still together if not everyday, it's "unconventional" as Sara termed it. But, still as a married couple as we saw in "The Two Mrs. Grissom's"Their have been romantic parings that I see zilch between them, but to each one's own and again "different strokes", and whatever works~

Bringing Jorja in as Grissom's love interest is totally irrelevant. All the characters were brought in with a way they were suppose to be and didn't turn out that way.

The fact that the writers had them married still doesn't change the fact there is no chemistry (romantic) between them. This only happened because CM loved them two together.

It ruined the show, IMO and many others and never should have happened.

And it gets dragged on and on and on and on. Enough already.

What was slated to happen when she was brought in eleven years ago is irrelevant.

Besides if people had liked the Holly character GSR would NEVER had happened. Personally they should have stuck with Holly.

 

[Otie]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

But this person was dead on with the chemistry thing. And no matter what Sara said in the 'Two Mrs. Grissoms' that is not a marriage that will last. Modern marriage my...well you know.

Might I ask why you're so certain that it's a marriage that won't last? Taking chemistry or lack their of out of the equation, since for each person who says they don't see the chemistry, there's someone who sees it.

 

[Desertwind]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

But this person was dead on with the chemistry thing. And no matter what Sara said in the 'Two Mrs. Grissoms' that is not a marriage that will last. Modern marriage my...well you know.

Might I ask why you're so certain that it's a marriage that won't last? Taking chemistry or lack their of out of the equation, since for each person who says they don't see the chemistry, there's someone who sees it.

Exactly, when I was shipping them for a really long time, [for me, it fizzled when he left the show], but I thought their chemistry was so strong it burnt through the screen, those intense look's/gazes, were so intense, I was riveted. You could see the strong love they had for each other
And a bit of trivia it was Jorja who lured Billy to do the episode, ["The Two Mrs. Grissom's"] and she read the lines for him. So in real life they're also friends, that has alot to do with the "chemistry" that showed on-screen~

 

[jafox]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

What's irrelevent is that article written by one person who didn't see the chemistry between the characters that many of us saw, and still see. I'd be happy to link you to some articles from writers who really like them as a couple.

Grissom and Sara have been different from the start. They're unique, not only in the way they are portrayed individually and as a couple, but also in the way the storyline has been written. Some appreciate that, some don't. It's as simple as that. It's all a matter of personal taste, like art and fine wine.

I think a lot of military families would take issue with the belief that marriages between couples who are separated for long periods of time can't last. Grissom and Sara's home is Las Vegas; Grissom travels around for his consulting job; they seem to only be apart a few weeks at a time, and they communicate regularly. Given that they're both independent souls, I don't find it that odd. Most people here didn't think they should get married at all because 'Sara wasn't the marrying kind'. Well, this is their idea of a good marriage, and it seems to be working for them both. They've each got their own space, and they've got each other.

Grissom and Sara are happy; that was very evident in T2MG. They're married, they're a family, and, they have 'great sex'! Yep, that's canon now, too! :hugegrin:

 

[Speedystokesgirl]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

So in real life they're also friends, that has alot to do with the "chemistry" that showed on-screen~

I never said they didn't have any chemistry, I said there was no romantic chemistry between them.

And now I'm offending military couples Btw, a lot military marriages don't make it for this exact reason. Too much time apart. The couples grow apart. I've seen it personally with a former co-worker.

We have two people who are married living in different countries.

With the military there isn't a choice. And military is irrelevant to this, as well.

And Grissom's mother herself doesn't think this marriage could make it.

And Sara saying they are having 'great sex' doesn't make it true. And for someone that gave Grissom an ultimatium, played her manipulative games with him, chased him around like a love-sick puppy and who finally got him to give up everything for her, I find it extremely difficult to believe that she doesn't want to be with him. Especially for someone who LEFT HIM twice and can't do her job.

And that's 'one' person who wrote the article, so what? What does that have to do with it? Guess I could say the same thing about your articles. Oh wouldn't that make you articles irrelevant, as well?

Grissom would have been better of with Lady Heather. Now those two had romantic/sexual chemistry. Even Grissom and Terri Miller had it. Hell, even Grissom and Catherine have it, though I don't think Griss and Cat should be together.

Man, I felt no chemistry between Sara and Hank either.

If they had gotten together in the earlier seasons, I may have accepted it. However, with the way they both changed, nope. Too incestuous for me.

But hey, to each their own.

 

[sharp52092]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Grissom would have been better of with Lady Heather. Now those two had romantic/sexual chemistry. Even Grissom and Terri Miller had it. Hell, even Grissom and Catherine have it, though I don't think Griss and Cat should be together.

Man, I felt no chemistry between Sara and Hank either.

If they had gotten together in the earlier seasons, I may have accepted it. However, with the way they both changed, nope. Too incestuous for me.

But hey, to each their own.

I won't lie I like Heather and Grissom/Lady Heather but I don't think it would have worked out, one man would never be enough for her

As for Griss/Cath they seem more brother and sisterish, yeah there were moments but Catherine isn't really into science nerds like Grissom, she's into bad boy/mysterious guys like Warrick or Vartann, I don't really know if Vartann is a bad boy, though I can see him having once been, but to me he is mysterious and they have several things in common, single parent in law inforcement and they understand the hours of the job and such

Sara went out with Hank because she was tired of waiting for Grissom, maybe hoping to make him jealous and change his mind, but she was probably just glad someone was showing interest in her or so she thought

Well they probably decided not to do Grissom and Sara for awhile since the show was doing great and probably decided to save it for later, like when Billy and JF were thinking about leaving, a way to write them off and give them a happy ending

 

[Otie]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

However, couples can grow apart just as easily while sleeping in the same bed every night. It's all a matter of how they communicate, if they communicate. Distance, especially now with all the advances in internet technology, is only a physical boundary. In terms of Grissom and Sara, we know they speak on the phone, and use video conferencing. They can continue to build an emotional and mental bond to each other.

As far as his mother not thinking it would work. She comes from a different time and as Grissom had pointed out in the past, she had trouble coping with the loss of her husband. The feeling I got from her wasn't so much that she thought their sort of marriage couldn't work, but rather, she didn't understand how it could. That coming from her experiences, she only saw the potential for a worst case scenario. Even if her character was supposed to be 100% set on her belief that their marriage couldn't work, well, there are in-laws out there all over the world just like that. Doesn't make their assertions anything more than what THEY think based on what THEY perceive is 'best' for their child. I've been in Sara's place... actually, Sara had it a LOT easier than me in terms of in-laws - but that's neither here nor there. Whether his mother truly felt she wasn't who her son should be with or not, Grissom obviously felt she was who he should be with.

And in terms of Sara playing manipulative games with Grissom, he also manipulated her off and on during the first few seasons. They're both guilty of it. Her leaving, well, the first instance was a breakdown - and she ran. That is completely natural and expected for something as emotionally destructive and devastating as a breakdown can be. Yes, it hurt him. And yes, he very likely would have been more than willing to be there for her every step of the way - but you don't think rationally when you're in that state, and you certainly don't want anyone you care about to see you in it. It was wrong, but needed. As far as the second time is concerned - well that was entirely his own stupidity and fault. I adore Grissom, but he chose to remain silent when she asked who he was referring to. She should have pushed for an answer, but instead chose to run. She was hurt, and likely took his words entirely literally to make him feel the hurt she felt. Again, it was wrong, but their past is their past. HE chose to leave everything to be with her, she had let him go like she felt he'd wanted. She was finding herself, which, has done a good deal of good for her.

As far as Grissom and the others you mentioned, ::shrugs::. We all see attraction and chemistry differently. I did like the relationship between Grissom and Lady Heather, however, to me it never really felt like a sexual/romantic type relation. Yes, I saw a chemistry there, but it kind of reminded me of the sort of chemistry I have with a few of my good friends. A strong, connected energy of trust, of excitement for sharing different interests, discussing common interests at length. The sort of chemistry where you never run out of things to say. But I've never associated that type of chemistry with romantic/sexual relationships - as to me it's not unique to those.

But, to each their own indeed.

 

[jafox]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

And now I'm offending military couples Btw, a lot military marriages don't make it for this exact reason. Too much time apart. The couples grow apart. I've seen it personally with a former co-worker.

We have two people who are married living in different countries.

With the military there isn't a choice. And military is irrelevant to this, as well.

And Grissom's mother herself doesn't think this marriage could make it.

And Sara saying they are having 'great sex' doesn't make it true. And for someone that gave Grissom an ultimatium, played her manipulative games with him, chased him around like a love-sick puppy and who finally got him to give up everything for her, I find it extremely difficult to believe that she doesn't want to be with him. Especially for someone who LEFT HIM twice and can't do her job.

And that's 'one' person who wrote the article, so what? What does that have to do with it? Guess I could say the same thing about your articles. Oh wouldn't that make you articles irrelevant, as well?

The whole point with the military couple analogy was to point out that many marriages with distance between them do work. Many non-military couples as well have spouses that travel for their work. And, I agree, some work and some don't, but I would count Sara and Grissom as one that works after seeing T2MG. Besides, their arrangement is not permanent. Grissom is consulting, so he does live in LV when he's not out on the job.

As far as Grissom's mother's doubts, I think that was the whole point of the final scene in T2MG; that she, and we, see them as a happy couple who communicate regularly and are doing just fine. She may not understand their unconventional marriage, but she seemed to have accepted it, and Sara, at the end; she wants to be a part of their family. I was left with the feeling that she and Sara would develop a closer relationship after this.

And, yeah, my articles, your articles, are all irrelevent here. My point was that it's easy to find someone somewhere who agrees with anything and everything. For every person you know that hated GSR and thought it ruined the show, I know at least as many who liked them and thought their storyline enhanced the show. As you said, to each his own

 

[Desertwind]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Whe we first saw Jorja/Sara in ep. 2 waaay back when, I'd never heard of ether one of them WP or JF, but they had history according to what they've showed us going back to San Francisco, And when Holly was shot Grissom called her down to work with the team. When she showed up and he goes "I don't even have to turn around, it's Sara Sidle" I saw the chemistry right then and went boy they "sizzle on screen" And as time went on the more I saw them the more I saw that they were perfect together. But when she bailed because she "couldn't take it anymore" and the "ghost" of her past were haunting her. She sent Grissom a video and told him "she was happy, and not to worry about her". But he was a lost soul without her, so he leaves his job, finds her, she's thrilled, he's thrilled, they marry, move to Paris, & I thought that was the end. But on why I got dis-interested, is when she shows back up in Vegas. She, who wanted him forever, got him and then leaves him to comes back to a city she hated, and a job she hated as well. It didn't add up for me. Why after all of this would she leave him? They could be traveling around the globe together. If for me I want to watch a show with fictional characters I want to see them actually together, for instance on NY Danny & Lindsay are in love, married have a baby and work together. This long distance thing with Grissom and Sara just doesn't make sense or add up It all stems from Billy leaving, so that's fine, but come on. so I can't live on the fan-fiction of this issue. I so wanted to see them together married with their dog Hank and actually working on the crime scenes together, and seeing them at home all cozy and comfortable. But that isn't going to happen so for me GSR is not happening~

 

[jafox]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

^^^
While I can appreciate your concerns, DW, I guess I've just accepted that we have to work within the reality of television and the actors involved. Ideally, I would love to have more GSR scenes. But, with WP gone, this is the best scenario I could hope for.
I felt much worse when Sara left. We rarely heard about her, and we didn't know the status of their relationship. Then, in the early episodes of season 9, from what we saw on screen, they were drifting apart.
So, I'm more than satisfied with how they are portraying them now. They are married, they are happy, and they consider themselves a family; the Grissoms.
It probably would have been easier for the writers to break them up when Sara returned, but I'm eternally grateful that they didn't. I think Jorja and Billy's commitment to their storyline saved us from that. Theirs has always been a unique relationship, involving 2 unique and independent characters, and I think the writers have done a good job of conveying that to the viewers. Ideal? No. Plausible, as well as, satisfying? Yes! And in the fictional TV world of CSI: the procedural, I'll take it. As long as Grissom and Sara are happy, I'm happy. I love having Sara back on the show; and the payoff for me was 'The Two Mrs. Grissoms'.

 

[Otie]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Desertwind - I certainly can get where you're coming from. It's like reading a series of novels and getting attached to the characters as they go through all sorts of things to be together, and just when things are finally reaching that point, the novel series ends... and you're left wanting more, to see them through now that they're there. I myself would love to see more and learn more about Hank - but I'm a total dog lover :lol:

As far as Sara returning to Vegas and the job... I wouldn't say she *hated* either - she burned out. She's recharged now. In terms of finally having Grissom and be physically separated from him, jtd94 said it perfectly by calling them unique and independent. She DOES have him, and they are confident in their relationship to the point where they are willing to allow one another to pursue their differing interests at the same time... they can do this separately and then discuss such experiences (like they were doing at the end of TTMG).

And from the sounds of things, they are based in Vegas now, with Grissom going off on various research/consulting/etc trips. That's really no different than one spouse going on regular business trips. So it is very much reality based, and fairly true to the lifestyle of research types. I recall a lot of professors at the university I attended going on various sabbaticals for semesters or entire years to perform research that was location based. If, as an entomologist, Grissom is studying a certain insect or insect's impact on an ecosystem, he would need to go to that location to gather intensive data.

So it might not be ideal in terms of the amount of time they get to be together physically, but they're happy with it and with each other from what we've seen.

 

[TheDefence]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Apparently THEY see and have the chemistry, that's what counts, they did get married. It's if for instance I love Bill and he loves Betty, but I don't see anything between them at all, but they do!!! On GSR, Jorja Fox was brought on the show to be Grissom's love interest from the onset said Billy Petersen. It never changed but grew and progressed and ended up with them as a married couple and their still together if not everyday, it's "unconventional" as Sara termed it. But, still as a married couple as we saw in "The Two Mrs. Grissom's"Their have been romantic parings that I see zilch between them, but to each one's own and again "different strokes", and whatever works~

Bringing Jorja in as Grissom's love interest is totally irrelevant. All the characters were brought in with a way they were suppose to be and didn't turn out that way.

The fact that the writers had them married still doesn't change the fact there is no chemistry (romantic) between them. This only happened because CM loved them two together.

It ruined the show, IMO and many others and never should have happened.

And it gets dragged on and on and on and on. Enough already.

What was slated to happen when she was brought in eleven years ago is irrelevant.

Besides if people had liked the Holly character GSR would NEVER had happened. Personally they should have stuck with Holly.

Hi I'm joining the discussion. I'm really relieved to find out that I'm not the only person who liked Holly. Who cares about a test audience, seriously? Now for my position on GSR.
I really, really, really hated Sara for the first 8 seasons. I mean, serious hate. So any sort of romantic plot for her was ever going to interest me. They don't have any romantic chemistry whatsoever. NONE. Season 7 was my favourite season until the finale, when I realized that the writers developed not just a serial killer, not just a storyline, not even an arc, but an entire season for the sole purpose of developing GSR. I did this :scream: in frustration.
But something really really interesting happened during season 10. Sara came back, and I love her. She's actually my fave character now. I don't know if Ray had anything to do with it [taking away Nick and thus Sara works with Greg by default].
In summary, GSR did nothing whatsoever for the show. NOTHING WHATSOEVER.
Vartillows? Meh. GSR? Ugh. Sandles? [hurls up] Wedges I can tolerate, Grissom/Sofia I could have tolerated, Grissom/Heather i could have lived with, Grissom/Teri I actually liked. one more interesting ship that I would have liked to see was Brass/Sofia or Nick/Sofia or Riley. i think they had good chemistry, despite the fact that Riley is universally hated.

 

[sharp52092]

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Oh please season 7 was not all about GSR

Greg had his storyline with the beatings and lawsuit, Cathierine in the beginning of the season and then when Griss went on his sabbatical and she was acting supervisor for that time, Keppler, the lab rats had some development in Lab Rats

Warrick nothing major just his continued marriage troubles, Nick nothing major too but he had some good moments like my favorite singing to Mandy or even punching K Fed :thumbsup:

Sara's life hanging in the balance was due to JF's contract being up, they were probably deciding what to do and it's part business too they gotta draw in viewers, not to mention they couldn't just wrap up the mini killer *snaps fingers* like that (they did that with Dr Jekyll and look how that turned out), I mean we'd been watching her a whole season

Holly being written out was due to CBS not liking the character plus I think it made a good Pilot

I don't think Riley was totally hated, maybe now by some for what was she wrote about Catherine, if I had paired her with anyone it would have been Greg maybe Nick, but not right away