Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Part 2

Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Revitalize. Really?...Um...ok...

Yes, people have all sorts of relationships...but the glaring insult I've never been able to buy about GSR is that although all the rigamarole that watchers of the show have been expected to buy about it over the years not only did it never make sense, but it was lapped up by fans of that particular ship regardless of how silly, inconsistant and intellectually insulting the storyline became with such enthusiasm simply because TPTB were writing in such a way as to fullfill the ship...

It's as if GSR fans wear blinders and as long as anything about the ship becomes canon they are prepared to swallow any and all of the pablum TPTB offer as long as the explanation and end result furthers the penultimate goal of making the ship MORE canon...

Persuing the GSR storyline ruined CSI...

If TPTB came back and wrote that all this time Griss and Sara had 6 kids, yet we never saw a pregnancy, GSRs would find a plausible scenario in which Sara must've had in-vitro during her "break to revitalize", delivered the sextuplet babies as a hollogram, had a tummy tuck, breastfed the babies for a year, negotiated with a Moche nanny to care for them indefinitely so they could grow up in a culturally diverse setting near thier father and returned to Las Vegas, none the worse for wear...And the GSR fans could sleep at night because it's all "canon"...Doh!...

GSR has always reminded me of the scene in Funny Girl where Ziegfeld pulls rank and Streisand says, "OK, you win...You don't win fair, but you win."...LOL

Regardless of whatever misgivings or well-plotted rebuttal a non-GSR has about the ship, GSRs can always end the argument by saying, "Yes, that may be true but the ship is still canon."...

Makes my teeth gnash...

GT;)
 
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Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I seems a little unfair to insinuate that all GSR fans 'wear blnders.' I like the relationship, but I wouldnt want to see completely unrealistic storylines about them, just for the sake of it.
I dont believe GSR 'ruined' the show, I think that as the seasons go by the stories are becoming more tired and repetitive..
And I do fully believe that sometimes people need a break from work, yes to revitalise. I could do with one myself!
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

As for both my assertions that GSRs tend to wear blinders regarding the ship and as to whether the ship ruined the show, I can accept that a GSR supporter will see it differently so no argument there. :)

Yes, I can also use a break from my job as well...My qualms stem from an ongoing plotline regarding Sara being sooo depressed, sooo unhappy, sooo on the edge that TPTB wrote her as "not being able to do this anymore" and "needing to get away"...Oh! and let's not forget she was so desperately in luuurve with Griss...

Uh huh...

So now she gets the guy only to LEAVE him (before the wedding ring warmed after it touched her finger) to return to the exact same job and exact same place that burnt her out sooo badly that she initially LEFT???...Um...Sooo, what now she can revisit the depression, burnout, etc yet again???...

Mind you, this is after YEARS of "I love You" "No thanx" "Seriously, I love you" "Nah, I don't wanna" "I luuurve YOU" "Um, I really don't wanna" "I'm depressed" "Ummm" "I'm sad" "Ummm" "I'm leaving" "M'kay"...

And an entire season of eye sex from out of nowhere...Then suddenly "We've BEEN a couple all along and we're married now!"...That's realistic?...

TPTB really pulled a fast one and the ship sailed...MazelTov...

It was an insult to non-GSRs and worse, it cheapened the show in the eyes of many fans...Unfortunately, the more vocal group were GSRs and that's who TPTB chose to placate...Shame on them...

Even though Griss/WP was never sexier than in the last 2 seasons where WP wore the beard and did all that eye sex (for the record, if you weren't shipping GSR you could still enjoy the eye sex, it just didn't compute whom he was written to be supposedly having it with LOL), I find it very comforting that if I ever want to enjoy CSI I can simply watch the seasons up until the GSR mishegas and ignore the rest...

GT ;)
 
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Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Just gonna step in here for a moment.

For the record, I am not a GSR fan. I don't hate it, but I don't like it. I nothing it. I always felt that Sara would have been better off with someone else (like Greg, maybe...). But I wouldn't place the changing of the show's 'atmosphere' (for lack of a better word) solely on the shoulders of GSR.

Season 7 is generally what fans consider to be the changing point. And a lot happened in that season. It was the first to have the season long story arc focusing on a single killer. Many fans hated that even before Grissom and Sara were personally tied to it.

Grissom's sabbatical also was a touchy point for some. It was like a practice run for what happened in season 9 - a season mostly reviled by fans (and not just GSRs). So that helped in turning people off.

There was a lot of debate over in the Las Vegas forum of this site regarding Sara and her leaving and returning. If we focus on just Sara and not the meta (Jorja Fox basically coming back because A) they needed another female for the show, and B) she wasn't getting much work after originally leaving), it doesn't necessarily seem as odd. It seems to just come down to one's own personal take on the character and the events surrounding her.

As a non-GSR, I still find their relationship plausible - even the whole "we're married but not together" bit. Not every relationship is going to be a "traditional" one. And I'm okay with that.

But that's just my two cents. :)
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Praetor, point taken on all counts...

My only disagreement would be how TPTB presented GSR after WP left the show and after JF's contract was negotiated /her subsequent return...As usual, TPTB presented Sara's return/GSR/Griss' leaving clumsily and without logic...

Can couples be successful/faithful/happy in unconventional/long distance/longterm relationships?...ABSOLUTELY!

However, TPTB want viewers to believe that THIS particular woman who has been canonically written/portrayed as being needy/attention seeking/unable to cope with a lack of Griss' attention specifically can suddenly be happily/well adjusted without him on an ongoing basis...

Do I believe the way the relationship has been written would/could work for Griss' character?...ABSOLUTELY...He has shown himself historically to be capable of getting lost in his interests to the exclusion of most other outside distractions...Perfect example: "Where have you been?" "You see me every day."...Doh!

Do I believe the way the relationship has been written would/could work for Sara's character?...Absolutely NOT...She has been written historically to be disturbed by a lack of mollycoddling in general and more specifically from Griss...

So she willingly gave up on a steady diet of all the eye sex we saw in the seasons surrounding the reveal of the relationship?...I don't buy it for THIS particular character (Sara) in THIS particular relationship...No way, no how...

GT;)
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

My two cents (Canadian, so they're worth more! :D):

In the earlier stages of their relationship (moments from season 6 through 9), Grissom felt smothered by Sara's neediness. In return, she felt unloved and unwanted when he did, hence her leaving.

It was her time away that let her finally come to terms with the things from her past (her parents relationship, etc), and grow into a stronger woman, who didn't need constant reassurance and affirmation from a partner anymore. She showed this in Leave Out All the Rest, and again in One to Go - she had changed on her own, and become more independent. The Sara who came back in season 10 (or even the one we saw in One to Go) was far, far different from the depressed, needy woman who left in season 8. Just because the changes happened off-screen doesn't make them any less valid or powerful.

Once she reached that point on her own, then she could love Grissom for himself, not as something to cling to or seek validation from (and he could love her without feeling smothered). They needed that time apart for her to get to that point. Once she did, they had a more mature and balanced relationship, that could stand up to being apart at times.

Personally, the only tiny detail that bothered me was that it took them a season and a half to actually show the exact dynamics of how the relationship was working (in The Two Mrs. Grissoms). I always had faith that it was, but I still liked seeing the specifics (nightly Skype sessions, etc).
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

Well, if that works for you and allows you to enjoy /accept GSR what can I say?...

Doesn't work for me...I don't buy it...

C'est la vie...

GT;)
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I guess GSR has it's moments... At least at the start in my opinion.
But then as it went on it became more frustrating - like the fact that Sara kept chasing someone who wasn't interested, and then suddenly they're together again.

I also don't quite understand the whole 'cute couple' thing. Ok, they might be ok together, but not cute. Now Warrick and Cath, that's a cute couple :D
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

So, here we are at the end of another season.
To keep things moving while we wait for the next season, I'm going to plant some ideas to keep us talking.

Just some reminders; this is a debate thread. Some will disagree with you. That does not mean they are wrong or stupid or what have you, it means they have a differing opinion. Please remember that when posting your thoughts.

Second, let's keep specific spoilers in each pairing thread. If per chance there is a spoiler regarding a certain couple or pairing, please use the spoiler tag and post that spoiler in that specific thread. Let's keep these threads as general as possible.

So onward....

Catherine and Lou. The season ended without any mention of their relationship.
What will happen to them? What's the fate of their relationship. Marg is set to leave at the end of next season. Will she leave with Lou? Will he leave being a cop?

Gil and Sara. We saw a glimpse of Gil this season. He is happy where he is and so is Sara where she is. Is their marriage truly happy? Can it last? Will there be conflict along the way?

Hodges and Wendy. Wendy moved on, moved to Portland to be a Field Mouse on her way to be a CSI. Is Hodges really happy? Is he over her? Will she come back?

Brass/Sofia. We saw her return this season. Is there something between her and Brass? Will the sparks fly again when they meet up again.

Again please remember this is a debate thread. We can be civil without being nasty.

Have fun... . :D
 
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Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

ladyhunter said:
Catherine and Lou. The season ended without any mention of their relationship.
What will happen to them? What's the fate of their relationship. Marg is set to leave at the end of next season. Will she leave with Lou? Will he leave being a cop?
Click to expand...

I was really dissapointed that the season ended without any mention of their relationship. There wasn't even a clear indication as to what status their relationship is on right now. I think these two are great together and that whatever Catherine's exit storyline will be it should involve Lou. I'm not saying that he should leave too, quite the contrary, I want him to stay and think it'd be a nice way of knowing what Cath is doing.


Gil and Sara. We saw a glimpse of Gil this season. He is happy where he is and so is Sara where she is. Is their marriage truly happy? Can it last? Will there be conflict along the way?
Click to expand...

They appear to be happy. I don't know how a relationship like theirs could survive in the long term, though. I see it more as something the writers had to come up with to make room for Jorja's return to show. If they were both off the show and someone were to mention them I'm pretty sure they would've said something along the lines of they are both wroking in Peru with the _____ tribe or they are doing field studies in whatever country. I doubt it would've been Grissom is down in Peru and Sara is working full time as whatever else. That's just my opinion though and understand and respect there are a lot of fans who like the way their relationship has been written.

Hodges and Wendy. Wendy moved on, moved to Portland to be a Field Mouse on her way to be a CSI. Is Hodges really happy? Is he over her? Will she come back?
Click to expand...

I don't think she'll be back. I do like that we've had continuity on Hodges' feelings and it hasn't simply been swept under the rug because Wendy is gone. I do think this is it, though. Unless when the series ends he announces he is moving to Portland to be with her.

Brass/Sofia. We saw her return this season. Is there something between her and Brass? Will the sparks fly again when they meet up again.
Click to expand...

Did I miss something :lol:?? I'm not being sarcastic or anything but did I really miss something between these two? I've never seen anything between Brass and Sofia.
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I never saw anything between Brass and Sophia either:confused: Only the who did it in "ABRTI", Sophia felt so guilty but in the end it was Brass, but a total accident, the last scene with the widow and him was poignant:(
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

hiphugger17 said:
ladyhunter said:
Catherine and Lou. The season ended without any mention of their relationship.
What will happen to them? What's the fate of their relationship. Marg is set to leave at the end of next season. Will she leave with Lou? Will he leave being a cop?
Click to expand...

I was really dissapointed that the season ended without any mention of their relationship. There wasn't even a clear indication as to what status their relationship is on right now. I think these two are great together and that whatever Catherine's exit storyline will be it should involve Lou. I'm not saying that he should leave too, quite the contrary, I want him to stay and think it'd be a nice way of knowing what Cath is doing.
Click to expand...

agree on the above.... about the no mention of their relationship in the season's ending I can only say it sounds very familiar for the end of season 10 with no (of course IMHO ;)) decent follow up for 10x18.

ladyhunter said:
Gil and Sara. We saw a glimpse of Gil this season. He is happy where he is and so is Sara where she is. Is their marriage truly happy? Can it last? Will there be conflict along the way?
Click to expand...

I think it's about time there will be some conflict, I wouldn't be surprised if there will be some Grissom in season 12.....

Hodges and Wendy. Wendy moved on, moved to Portland to be a Field Mouse on her way to be a CSI. Is Hodges really happy? Is he over her? Will she come back?
Click to expand...

In my csi world Wendy will come back in season 12, and their yes/no relationship will be a nice c or d story during season 12... well :lol: you have to have some dreams


Brass/Sofia. We saw her return this season. Is there something between her and Brass? Will the sparks fly again when they meet up again.
Click to expand...

Did I miss something :lol:?? I'm not being sarcastic or anything but did I really miss something between these two? I've never seen anything between Brass and Sofia.
Click to expand...

I have to rewatch some episodes concerning these two (can't remember either the sparks :cool:)... if Sofia is returning it would be a nice road to explore... at least it is refreshing in the classic/cliche pairing...
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

^

I'm disappointed they didn't have Vartann in the season finale or Catherine mention him or anything about them, I'm also curious to see what season 12 will bring for them or where their at since there was angst in Wild Life, we didn't learn much in The List, I think they're still together but I'd like to hear this for sure

GSR- I could them doing a little GSR angst, all couples have arguements,
and there's talk that we'll see Griss in s12, Billy and Marg were talking about it at the 250 episode party

I still have hopes of seeing Wendy again, CBS brought AJ Cook back on Criminal Minds and they did her just like Liz so it's possible, if not then if ever Hodges decided to leave, he could go after Wendy and move to Portland
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

I'll weigh in my 2 cents...

I love Catherine with Vartann. I've shipped them LONG before they were cannon. I liked how they were 'revealed' to the audience as a couple in Meat Jekyll. Very subtle yet incredibly sexy at the same time. Hated The Panty Sniffer's end. Made Vartann look very stupid IMO. Glad they didn't dumb him down to be with Catherine.

I adored the first part of the season between them. Blood Moon had my jaw dropping. Who knew they could have such hot ... well you know. ;) and that CSI would take it that far... I'm not complaining though. I thought the last scene in her office was just as good as the opening one. Shows how truly mature the relationship is and how she wants to be certain about her future with him before it ended... very nice move there.

I even loved Wild Life. It showed that couples fight and argue. That everything isn't perfect in a relationship especially if you are in love with that person. I believe the both love one another, but neither one of them knows how to say it.

Targets of Obsession was okay. It did show that Catherine cares for him and like I said, she loves him, just isn't sure how to say it. Same with Lou. That's why he just said, "Thanks for being here." Which is EXACTLY what Grissom said to Catherine at the end of Season 3 when he went for his ear surgery. :lol:

I'm curious if the writers will continue this angst quest between them and if Catherine's exit from CSI involves what happens with Ray and how Vartann would fit into all of it.

My hope is that Catherine leaves CSI on a good note and that she and Lou are in a committed relationship with one another whether he says on the show or not.

~~~
Hodges and Wendy. I wasn't sure about this pairing. I saw more Junior High antics between them than anything serious. I think they have fun together but I'm not sure about a long term, committed relationship. Perhaps that's why she left and why Hodges hasn't mentioned her lately.

~~
Not a fan of Gil and Sara. I never thought they made a good romantic match. But I did like the episode, The Two Mrs. Grissom's. It was a good insight into their marriage. I guess for me, she wanted him for so long, that she's okay with Gil being in Peru and her being in Vegas. Sort of confusing to me. But somehow they make it work.

~~
Brass and Sofia. I have always thought there was 'something' between them. They are both cops and know how the job takes it's toll. I see them not only being supportive to one another but having a deep connection that could turn into a lasting relationship. I hope we get to see her next season.
 
Re: Debate/Dislike a Ship Thread -- CSI:Crime Scene Investigation, Par

That's why he just said, "Thanks for being here." Which is EXACTLY what Grissom said to Catherine at the end of Season 3 when he went for his ear surgery.
Click to expand...

Hmmm as a Cath/Gil shipper and now a Cath/Vartann shipper I have to say I find this VERY interesting ;) :lol:
 
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